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Maldon Perriera
Posted - 2006.10.29 08:08:00 - [1]
 

Question how much old earth history is remembered in EVE? Am working on the back story for my Gallente roleplay character and considering making him a first generation capsuler from a family of historians and focused on old history of earth. How much do you think would be remembered? I realize the Gallente are of French descent but would things such as the federalist papers, the American bill of rights be rememberd?

As well are the Amarr the only group that has a religion? Could there not be a more liberal God wants you to care for the poor not impose your morality on the poor religon?

Mike Yagon
Minmatar
The Nest
Posted - 2006.10.29 09:20:00 - [2]
 

Nothing is known about Earth. We just know that there *might* have been something called Earth, and we know that it *might* be on the other side of the broken EVE Gate. We don't know anything else as far as I know.

Marine HK4861
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2006.10.29 11:30:00 - [3]
 

The Amarrian religion isn't the only one out there, but it's the only one widespread enough to be of any real importance.

Besides just because the Amarrian religion is regarded as 'evil', it doesn't mean a different flavour of it isn't worshipped elsewhere.

To use real world examples, take Christianity. The two key 'factions' in that religion are the Catholics and Anglicans, but there are plenty of lesser branches, like the Baptist, Methodist, Lutherians, etc.
All still worship one god and regard Jesus Christ as the son of that god, it's how they worship which results in the differences.

Maldon Perriera
Posted - 2006.10.29 14:52:00 - [4]
 

Ok thanks so a gallente character that whorships a more begin version of the Amarr God and is against slavery is not totally crazy then good to know.

Dirtybones
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.10.29 16:37:00 - [5]
 

Well there are probably some stories and maybe a few trinkets, or simple artifacts that have original ties to earth, (Religion, language, art ect) but this is more in the realm of myth with no real proof to substanciate any claims.

Earth itself has been boiled down to a bare bone legend by now, not entirely forgotten, but not a subject that anyone outside of academic circles would put much time or thought into.

I myself do like to play around with things that might have survived though the ages when I write fiction; Twinkies being my current favorite earhy myth. (Anyone care to give a 13 thousand year old twinkie a taste?) Laughing


Serenity Beauvais
Shinko Setsuei
Posted - 2006.10.30 01:52:00 - [6]
 

in one of the backstory there it was mentioned that the EVE-standard time (EST) was based around the old earth day. but that seems somewhat far fetched and all considering that earth was supposed to be all legend and all. Confused

Natalcya Katla
Naqam
Posted - 2006.10.30 03:47:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Marine HK4861
To use real world examples, take Christianity. The two key 'factions' in that religion are the Catholics and Anglicans, but there are plenty of lesser branches, like the Baptist, Methodist, Lutherians, etc.


Catholics and...Anglicans? The Anglican church isn't that much bigger than many other Protestant or Protestant-esque movements, such as Lutheranism, worldwide.

In fact, if any single Protestant movement deserves a rep as a "key faction", it would be Pentecostalism. They are much bigger than the Anglicans. And the Greek- and Russian-Orthodox churches should definitely be considered a key faction, too.

Not that it has anything to do with the subject matter, I suppose.

Marine HK4861
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2006.10.30 11:48:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Natalcya Katla
In fact, if any single Protestant movement deserves a rep as a "key faction", it would be Pentecostalism. They are much bigger than the Anglicans. And the Greek- and Russian-Orthodox churches should definitely be considered a key faction, too.



I'm not Christian, so my knowledge of the various flavours of Christianity is sketchy at best.

It illustrates my point nicely though.Very Happy

Darina Rea
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
Posted - 2006.10.30 14:46:00 - [9]
 

I'd say that 'The legends/myth of Earth' for the people of EvE would probably in the same category as Atlantis is for us today.

There is alot known, but almost all of it is either fuzzy, incoherent, rediculous or vague at best. The most of the heritage of Earth wouldn't be pictures or history, but folklore and legends.
I'm pretty much sure that everyone in the EvE cluster knows what a vampire is, even though they have never seen one. The module Nosferatu seems to suggest it atleast.

You could tell the 'Legend of the blue planet where we all came from' but you'd have to remember that it would go into the same category as the 'Wolf and the three little pigglets'. Great for by the campfire, but not for the grownups.

The heritage of the Gallente is French, although none of them would say 'My ancestors were French'. You'd have to search it in typical things, such as certain words, replacing 'mister' with 'monsieur' and 'Hello' with 'Bonjour' and such.

Kailea Shandrasekkar
Chor Tempest
Posted - 2006.10.30 17:57:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Darina Rea
I'd say that 'The legends/myth of Earth' for the people of EvE would probably in the same category as Atlantis is for us today.


I'd say it would be more like Mohenjo Daro: you can even dig some stuff from the time the EVE gate was still open, but we've no clue about how it was at that time.

I believe some of Terra myths survided in a way similar to folklores: small differences each time the tale was told.

That's how the Prime Fiction shows the FTL communication inner workings: 'The roots of the solution lay in an ancient paradox, often called the EPR paradox, the name shrouded in mystery.' In this case, EPR stands for Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen.

Ly'sol
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.30 18:29:00 - [11]
 

think big foot, unicorn, elfs.

Shintoko Akahoshi
Risen Angels
Posted - 2006.10.30 19:31:00 - [12]
 

How much do we know about 40,000 year old cultures, after all?

Mithfindel
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.10.30 20:29:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Mithfindel on 30/10/2006 20:29:56
On Religion in EVE Cluster

The Minmatar have their own religion, as well. (I think some parts were mentioned in Theodicy.) I don't remember the details, but likely some form of tribal ancestor-worship or such, with the Elders of the tribes as key figures. Since many of the Elders have died, it has likely caused a recession on the religion, though as it is a key unifying figure of their culture, it would be likely rather widespread in the young Republic.

Also, mentioned in State Factionalism, the Caldari do believe in some kind of a god, the Maker. This would, possibly, hint for a monotheistic (or possibly polytheistic) religion. There's a wedding site in New Caldari. Turn Cosmic Signatures on and check "Ceremonial Grounds".

Of the Gallente I don't think we know anything, except that the Intaki know some rituals of rebirth. I think the Intaki females can also have a dot deco in their forehead (which in India is a mark of a married woman, by the way), so they might have some form of oriental culture. (Hinduism? In Buddhism, the goal is NOT to be reborn.) Again, if we think about modern-day France, the Gallente would be a mix of all kinds of customs and habits.

The Amarr follow what is described as a sect of the Catholic Church, likely warped during the Dark Age following the EVE Cataclysm.

Of the peoples conquered by Amarr, the Ni-Kunni used to have their own religion, but it was quickly replaced by the Amarr religion. The Udorians and Khanid were conquered before the Amarr discovered spaceflight, so their ancient habits have been totally wiped out from knowledge, save Khanid knight tradition, and likely the Udorians (Tash-Murkon is Udorian) are some kind of an artisan culture.

Back to the State, the Achura are having a religion, but they've lost some of their important relics, I think? Also the climate of their home planet has detoriated, so they are facing an exodus. (Explains well the sudden number of min-maxing Achura pod-pilots.)

So, how much of this is a remnant of Earth knowledge? None, though I think the Amarr have kind of an inverted paradise type of a myth, echoing the Christian paradise myth: They left the old cluster (including the Solar system), a place of corruption. They certainly do not want to find Earth, nor remember it as a paradise. It is their holy mission to conquer EVE and make it "paradise on earth" (uhm, bad choise of words). They do have saints and so on, but possibly in a different meaning that current-day.

Before my rambling launches off in the direction of the tangent away from the topic, I place my conclusion on remnants of Earth religion in the cluster: Bits and pieces are known, but they are likely not connected to the correct context, or then connected wrong. Possibly this is true for other Earth knowledge, possibly not. Much reminds me of the Earth-lore parts in the Foundation series of novels (Specially: Isaac Asimov: "Foundation and Earth", "Prelude to Foundation").

Horoc'h Ryydell
Gallente
Midnight Enterprises
Midnight Space Syndicate
Posted - 2006.10.31 12:15:00 - [14]
 

I would like to think all electronicly stored data would be destroyed, as the different Empire had to re-invent everything. colonies were just being build, so there would not have been enough equipment probably to build lasting powersupplies, lasting computer systems etc. If they succeeded in building those, more technical data should have been present immediately, as I can't imagine anybody flying a big spaceship without detailed information on how it works in the database. So I believe in a scenario where the data excisted, but the resources where not there and eventually the data was lost...

Therefore, most historical data would have to come from either well preserved or copied books or from well preserved storage devices. When strugling for life, i guess preserving a book or storage device is not your first priority, so only a few of them would have survived, either because of dedication preserving it or by sheer luck. Most data that would have survived would be religious or preserved by a religious group (Monks... many tend to see personal things as less important over public stuff... such as preserving information by copying books for instance), which would explain why the Amarr were the first to build a technological civilisation .

The rest of the history would have to come for the peoples stories, myths and legends... and those tend to change over time. So the knowledge is partly there, but not for the average EVE inhabitant. The Sisters of EVE for instance have some knowledge, which makes them assume the structure in EVE is indeed a gate to somewhere else; Some kind of Heaven, they believe... Other factions will have other believes though, for instance to just see the gate as an old jump gate to somewhere else in the EVE-universe.

That's my two cents.

Xeonon's Requiem
Posted - 2006.11.04 02:58:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Xeonon''s Requiem on 04/11/2006 03:41:55
Edited by: Xeonon''s Requiem on 04/11/2006 02:59:16
Definitely someone is remembering something from Old Earth. Some of the drones are named after the demons of earth and a lot of items such as "Malkuth" missile launchers get their names from Qabala. Malkuth is the 10 sphere on the glyph of the Tree of Life
Angels, demons, and esoteric references are there. Simply look in names, just as you would look in the name of anything for its cultural origin.

Kian Grentakr
Posted - 2006.11.04 16:21:00 - [16]
 

It all depends on who you address. The Jovians and the Amarrians know the most (they came up with EST, based on the old Earth calender)
I assume the Amarrians have some few ancient artifacts, such as art and writings from pre-eve, however maybe the Jovians know much more about Earth than anyone else, probably that is was a planet, that that is where we came from, maybe also of the Eve disaster.
I also assume that different people interpret the tiny bit of information that is available from pre-eve in different ways. Some may think Earth was a society, a universe, a planet, or maybe even a god.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2006.11.05 14:56:00 - [17]
 

I tend to think the Amarr religion as a sort of 'super' religion, combining the more militaristic aspects of Islam with the concept of 'heretic' from Christianity. It seems appropriate that in this level of society, as advanced and regressed as it seems, that the traditional boundries between the religions have coalesced into the modern Amarr culture. Ritual suicide, anyone?

That being said, the Khanid and Ammatar obviously maintain the practices of this super-religion, though the Khanid do seem to have a more feudal tinge to their daily operations, and the Ammatar a mixture of tribal elder worship and caste-like religion.

Minmatar seem pretty set in tribal worship, where the concept of a 'god' isn't as solid as that of their ancestors and clan. We'd have to assume that they gained some concept of a singular all-powerful being during their service to the Amarr, but maybe it just hasn't stuck.

Caldari? I don't see religion playing a huge role in Caldari, except for an explanation of luck or fortune. Not to bring another sci-fi element in, but I always think of the d-mned Ferengi. Society is all about profit and the corporation. Religion plays little or no part, except for the spare individual who's spent too much time around the 'ignorant' other culters. Worship is probably a very private affair, with shrines in homes vice in public gathering places. Don't mix work and private life.

Gallente would have a different effect, where basically every major religion and every mixture of those religions would exist, with no specific one or 'Gallente' only religion standing out. If a Gallentian is following that moral curb, they probably grew up with an Amarrian cathedral on one corner of their block, and a Minmatar tribal temple on the other. The options are really unlimited.

Korva Aarvakansei
Posted - 2006.11.09 08:08:00 - [18]
 

I can vaguely recall my grandfather telling me of ancient Earth and of three great leaders of a state named United America ......... Larry , Curly and Moe ...............


Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Ammatar Free Corps
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.09 12:09:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Ruze
Ritual suicide, anyone?


Well, the ritual suicide in Amarr culture is pretty limited, and has developed as a response to avoid a situation where a new emperor has a hostile council set against him. Instead with each ascension the slate is wiped clean. New Emperor, new Privy council. It doesn't necessarily have historical ties, but instead has arisen as a solution to a political problem, a solution made possible by the Amarr view on life as a mere way of proving oneself worthy to enter heaven.

Quote:

Caldari? I don't see religion playing a huge role in Caldari, except for an explanation of luck or fortune. Not to bring another sci-fi element in, but I always think of the d-mned Ferengi. Society is all about profit and the corporation. Religion plays little or no part, except for the spare individual who's spent too much time around the 'ignorant' other culters. Worship is probably a very private affair, with shrines in homes vice in public gathering places. Don't mix work and private life.


The caldari society is NOT all about profit and the corperation, and it's definitly not rampant capitalism in the Ferengi sense. If anything it's very Zaibatsu, a japanese heriditary megacorp where ambition is tied by honour and responsibility to the corperation and its employees. Those ties however have been dissolving in the contact with the Gallente way of life, while the caldari havn't accepted the Gallente safeguards against corruption since those safeguards are simply unacceptable to the Caldari culture. As I see it once in the history of the Caldari the responsibility of a CEO was the greater good of the company and that included its employees. Nowdays the greater good has become more and more synonymous with profit (personal and that of the stockholders).
Examples of this is Ishukone, and a symptom is the creation of the Guristas.


Quote:
Gallente would have a different effect, where basically every major religion and every mixture of those religions would exist, with no specific one or 'Gallente' only religion standing out. If a Gallentian is following that moral curb, they probably grew up with an Amarrian cathedral on one corner of their block, and a Minmatar tribal temple on the other. The options are really unlimited.


I think the Gallente are really more prejudiced than one might think. I mean, just look at the way they view Intaki, and the way that Minmatars have been relegated to a sort of underclass. If anything the gallente have raised Liberalism to an almost religious status, anything that doesn't conform to the ideals of liberalism is ostracized and declared evil. Caldari, Amarr and if the Minmatar ever grew to be more powerful they too would be declared evil due to their "backward and anti-democratic tribal culture"


Quote:
I can vaguely recall my grandfather telling me of ancient Earth and of three great leaders of a state named United America ......... Larry , Curly and Moe ...............


Surely you mean St.Lauritius, St.Earlin and St.Mo who were the legendary leaders of the mythical United Amarr? Wink.... Just kidding.


 

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