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Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2006.10.27 23:37:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Kruel on 27/10/2006 23:37:55
Originally by: Patch86
Ironically enough, IMO the ideal for a Drone BC would be 4 heavy drones, with spares. Good DPS, free high slots, and some durability. Without spares its not worth flying, and with 5 Heavies it encroaches on Domi territory.

Shame that can't be done, with current mechanics....................


Good point. Maybe it should get a 7.5% bonus to drone damage instead of 10%? That way it could have it's 5 heavies (with spares) but not do the same drone dps as a domi?

xenodia
Gallente
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION
ORPHANS OF EVE
Posted - 2006.10.27 23:52:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Flaming sambuka
With the myrmidon having this many slots you can do evil things with it, it has more than enough turrets to make it deadly without drones and then theres the drones and fantastic ew in the mids.

How about something like this (not quite sue if itl 100% fit but along these lines anyway)


Highs: med blasters (ions probably), 3x med nos

meds: mwd, web, scram, 2xsensor dampeners

lows: med rep, dc, 3x active hardeners

drones: heavy n med ECM drones


Now with the ecm drones combined with the 2 sensor damps do you think any enemy 1v1 will get a lock? If so have enough time to do any serious damage? You just blast away with your 5 blasters whilst draining his cap and tanking the measly damage he ever manages to do.

Have i overlooked anything? i really see this ship as being as the future solo i win button of eve :D


ECM Drones kind of suck, unless they get a massive boost in Kali. And the Myrmidon doesnt have enough firepower without drones. Youre better off sticking with combat drones, and hoping the other guy doesnt have a smartbomb.

Myrmidon + smart opponent = defenseless battlecruiser waiting to be ganked after its drones are toast.

The myrmidon desperately needs a bigger drone bay so it can carry more than 1 flight of drones, if its supposed to be a 'drone boat'. For balancing purposes, a damage adjustment might be in order, so that if someone used to bigger bay to field 5 heavy drones, total damage would be the same as it is with 3 heavies and 2 mediums now. That way someone couldnt overpower the thing by running 5 heavy drones.


Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2006.10.28 00:14:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 28/10/2006 00:15:00
ECM drones suck on paper, but in practical use they jam tons. But I don't see how you can use ECM drones and damps as argument for a good Myrmidon fit? It gets no bonus for those, and other ships can field like 4-5 medium ECM drones and a damp or three too, and do the same thing more efficiently with gun bonuses.
No, the Myrmidon has to be measured by its use of combat drones, and I am afraid with a 100m drone bay it would be rather lacking in that department. I would say it needs 150m, no more no less. Either one wave of heavies and one wave of lights, or 3 waves of meds. (Or whatever off combo someone might want to put in there).

Nebuli
Caldari
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.28 00:24:00 - [34]
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but med ions, med nos, mwd, tank etc has absolutely no way of fitting anyway does it?

Besides, it sucks even if it could.

Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
Posted - 2006.10.28 00:28:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Illuminaty
Myr has a huge sig radius.

Would think that would be an uphill battle if your trying to keep people from locking you, sensor dampers or not.

Precisely. Whatever the mids are going to be used for, it is not going to be sensor dampeners. They would be as useless as fitting ECM. Tracking disruptors, target painters or drone tracking links would be better ideas.

Adrian Kerensky
Caldari
Setenta Corp
Libertas Fidelitas
Posted - 2006.10.28 00:53:00 - [36]
 

On test I came up with:

Hi:
5x Heavy electron t2 (Antimatter/Void), 1x Med Diminishing, 2x Small Diminishing

Med:
10mn MWD, 20km scram, Fleeting web, T2 med cap booster (800s), tracking disruptor

Low:
2x T2 Med Rep, 2x EANM2, Pseudoelectron DC

4x Ogre T2

Seemed to work ok.

Quilan Ziller
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.10.28 02:25:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Derran
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
The ship needs a drone bay of at least 150m3, so it can use a full set of heavy drones and have a few spares. Then it will be on the same playing field as the other new BCs.


Um, so why would I want to use a Dominix if the Myrmidon could use 5 heavy drones? Myrmidon will be faster and more agile than a Dominix and if I could use the same amount of drones, I'm not sure why I'd want to use a slow moving dominix.

Originally by: Alex Harumichi
...Ishtar has multiple *waves* of heavy drones *and* a gun damage bonus. Ho hum.

People are actually USING the gun damage bonus? Uh, why? You usually screw your tanking ability when you do because of grid requirements, unless you aren't using any NOS and I don't think any Ishtar pilot is not using NOS on it.


Have you actually flown a Vexor, Ishtar, or Domi?
You would use a Dominix because it has a dramatically better tank, and a huge drone bay that can hold
spare drones, and drones that do different damage (say, a full flight of Ogres and a full of Berserkers).
Yes, you DO fit guns on drone ships, and you DO use them to get the last 40% of your damage potential.
Not everyone fits guns on the Domi (you can fit large Nos on it, and Lrage blasters suck and blow against
smaller ships), but for smaller BC and cruiser size ships, guns are a must.
Now... For anyone to actually consider flying the Myr, its drone bay has to be increased to at least 150 m3.
Rigth now this ship is totally underpoweredand overpriced. It costs almost as much as the Domi, yet does
as much damage as a Vexor - and has a Domiesque agility and speed.
Someone tested it on the test server, and it goes 170 m/s WITH afterburner on. Ugh. Confused

Quilan Ziller
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.10.28 02:25:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Quilan Ziller on 28/10/2006 02:25:27

Balklanac
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.10.28 02:56:00 - [39]
 

It looks pretty Laughing Mimbar 4tw

Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
Posted - 2006.10.28 08:22:00 - [40]
 

The looks are superb.

The abilities subpar. No matter how you look at it, the myrmi is the worst damage dealer over time of all the tier 2 BC (if only because after 1 min it's drones could be gone).

Still I'm amazed someone actually got a dual rep, MWD, 5 blasters and the then required cap booster setup on it. Ofcourse the road to the enemy will be bumby with the large sig radius.. and it's blasters don't have any edge.. If anything I would put autocannons on there to save me some cap I think to keep those dual reppers going a bit longer..

Anyways, if the drone space stays 100 m^3 I won't be using it in pvp, much more efficient to use a vexor at 1/10 the costs. Or a dominix at less than twice the costs and the possibility to fit large guns with bonus or heavy nos.

I might use it in lvl 3 mishes for fun.. since i don't use guns in missions (except to aggro) and mostly med drones they might go faster in a myrmi .. on the other hand the tank you can run on a domi is pretty scary so .. tough call.

as for the OP: that fitting will never fit, 8 slots high .. hmm don't all tier 2 BC have that? and the drake will be the solo i win button of all the new ships since no matter how much ecm and drones you throw at it, FoF missiles don't need lock and if it does get lock it deals dmg even HACs can be proud of.

Sahne MuhMuh
Posted - 2006.10.28 09:12:00 - [41]
 

I think the the Myrmidon is teh worst new tier 2 Battlecruiser.
Its dps is lower than the Brutix and the grid is a bad joke.
Dronebay is much to small.

So for Droeneaction I will stick with my Vexor and Dominix. I cant see any situation where I should use the Myrmidon instead of one of this 2 ships.
For Battlecruiser action I stick with my Brutix. There is no possibility to shoot down my weapons in this ship.

Sadist
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.10.28 09:18:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Sadist on 28/10/2006 09:22:42
Originally by: Flaming sambuka
With the myrmidon having this many slots you can do evil things with it, it has more than enough turrets to make it deadly without drones and then theres the drones and fantastic ew in the mids.
How about something like this (not quite sue if itl 100% fit but along these lines anyway)
Highs: med blasters (ions probably), 3x med nos
meds: mwd, web, scram, 2xsensor dampeners
lows: med rep, dc, 3x active hardeners
drones: heavy n med ECM drones
Now with the ecm drones combined with the 2 sensor damps do you think any enemy 1v1 will get a lock? If so have enough time to do any serious damage? You just blast away with your 5 blasters whilst draining his cap and tanking the measly damage he ever manages to do.

Have i overlooked anything? i really see this ship as being as the future solo i win button of eve :D


If you think it will be a new Iwin button, I think you might have overlooked just about everything about it. Do you actually have any pvp experience or is this all just theoretical speculation from a 0.0 NPC hunter?

1. Your setup doesn't fit.
2. Ecm drones actually suck and if you deploy them on a myrmidon, which is an act of utter stupidity, you will be missing around 1/2 of your DPS.
3. Blasters actually do **** all damage without a ship bonus to them. And oh wait, you dont have any damage mods fitted. You won't be able to kill _anything_ in a reasonable amount of time with the HP boost.
4. Since when do 3 medium NOS drain significant cap from battleships or command ships? This isn't a Curse or Pilgrim you know.

Yes. You have overlooked something. I believe they are called facts.

Flaming sambuka
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.10.28 10:49:00 - [43]
 

rofl, nothing like the eve comunity to break you down hehe

zwerg
Macabre Votum
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2006.10.28 10:54:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Butter Dog
no damage bonus and 5 guns = same DPS as a vexor without drones, ie crappy

sensor damps = useless when using blasters, you might delay locking while getting into range but thats it, and as you have crappy DPS its not a big deal

ecm drones = not that effective

1 rep tank = anything with some DPS will totally own you

so... its more of an 'i-lose' button than anything



Stab in ya face dude!

Well okay, youre right with the blaster sensor damp mix,
but then when you say bad things about the ECM drones i could really cry.

I had a 2on1 against 2 Brutix,

1x with normal hammerheads II
1x with those vespa ECM drones.

I lost my lock instantly ( me = vagabond ), warped out, back in and was jammed again mmkay?
______________________


to you my friend,

better go with ecm + blasters, or tracking disrup + blaster, if you really really reallyyyyyyyyyyyyy wanna use your sensor damps then go with rails, missles.


zwerg



Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2006.10.28 10:56:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Flaming sambuka
rofl, nothing like the eve comunity to break you down hehe

LOL... The OP needed it though, seriously. He just wanted to set up a Gallente whinefest to divert attention from all the buffs (indirectly or not) Caldari are receiving in Kali.

Oh no, off topic. LaughingLaughing

Awox
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Posted - 2006.10.28 11:09:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 27/10/2006 11:54:33
Originally by: Flaming sambuka
ee this ship as being as the future solo i win button of eve :D


More like an "I Lose" button, unfortunately.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but in its current state it's quite underpowered compared to the other tier2s. Remember, it has no turret damage bonus, and the drone bay is tiny.

- If you use ECM drones, you'll be relying on 5 guns with no damage bonus for your damage. That's pitiful DPS.

- If you use medium drones, your DPS will be the same as a Vexor. Why do I want to use an expensive BC when a t1 cruiser does the same thing?

- If you use heavy drones, you'll only be able to fit 4 of them -- leaving you with subpar damage compared to the other tier2's, and to add insult to injury your heavy drones are ridiculously easy to kill with Kali's new longer combat times => your drones will die, then you will die since you don't have any spares.

The ship needs a drone bay of at least 150m3, so it can use a full set of heavy drones and have a few spares. Then it will be on the same playing field as the other new BCs.

All the other new BCs are pretty close to their HAC counterparts in power. Myrmidon is so far behind the Ishtar that words fail. Myrmidon has 4 heavy drones and no gun damage bonus, Ishtar has multiple *waves* of heavy drones *and* a gun damage bonus. Ho hum.

I suspect the devs thought this ship should use medium drones, but meds just don't cut it as the primary damage source for a BC.

There's a long discussion thread (multiple ones, in fact) about this in the Kali testing forum, go there.



Are you kidding? 5 Medium drones are very nasty and 5 Heavy drones will be incredibly overpowered.. look at the Ishtar.

Maybe if the drone bonus was to Medium drones only, you know, because it would be hax if I went and put 1400mm II or 800mm II on my Rupture..

Nebuli
Caldari
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.28 11:22:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Awox
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 27/10/2006 11:54:33
Originally by: Flaming sambuka
ee this ship as being as the future solo i win button of eve :D


More like an "I Lose" button, unfortunately.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but in its current state it's quite underpowered compared to the other tier2s. Remember, it has no turret damage bonus, and the drone bay is tiny.

- If you use ECM drones, you'll be relying on 5 guns with no damage bonus for your damage. That's pitiful DPS.

- If you use medium drones, your DPS will be the same as a Vexor. Why do I want to use an expensive BC when a t1 cruiser does the same thing?

- If you use heavy drones, you'll only be able to fit 4 of them -- leaving you with subpar damage compared to the other tier2's, and to add insult to injury your heavy drones are ridiculously easy to kill with Kali's new longer combat times => your drones will die, then you will die since you don't have any spares.

The ship needs a drone bay of at least 150m3, so it can use a full set of heavy drones and have a few spares. Then it will be on the same playing field as the other new BCs.

All the other new BCs are pretty close to their HAC counterparts in power. Myrmidon is so far behind the Ishtar that words fail. Myrmidon has 4 heavy drones and no gun damage bonus, Ishtar has multiple *waves* of heavy drones *and* a gun damage bonus. Ho hum.

I suspect the devs thought this ship should use medium drones, but meds just don't cut it as the primary damage source for a BC.

There's a long discussion thread (multiple ones, in fact) about this in the Kali testing forum, go there.



Are you kidding? 5 Medium drones are very nasty and 5 Heavy drones will be incredibly overpowered.. look at the Ishtar.

Maybe if the drone bonus was to Medium drones only, you know, because it would be hax if I went and put 1400mm II or 800mm II on my Rupture..


First off, Ishtar is far from overpowered.
Secondly, go do the math on the DPS of all of the new BCs then come back and say 5 heavy drones will be incredibly overpowered.

If you think 5 medium drones are so nasty, why not just stick with a vexor? its LOADS cheaper, and oh look, 5 medium drones, omgh4x its as potent as the Myr!!11!

Honestly do some math and think before posting.

Oh and on the ECM drones thing, you have to be joking, ECM drones rock, dont need a lock, 5 heavy ECM drones have 5 rolls of the dice and statisticaly have a much better chance of jamming a target than a max skilled multi spec II does, theyre very cool.

LUKEC
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.28 11:27:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Awox
stuff...


We have seen dominixes vs few armas ... now tell me how very overpowered it is when all you need is something to counter stupid ECM.

Only overpowered thing on isthers these days is ecm. Apart from that, vaga is better at any role. And if i want to ecm someone to death, rook/falcon/lachesis will do better.

ElCoCo
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.28 11:31:00 - [49]
 

Myrmidon looks absolutely hot and that's enough for me to buy it and use it Very Happy

Not everyone wants to weild the +5 sword of l33tness (or of 1000 truthsRazz) when playing.

Nebuli
Caldari
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.28 11:46:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: ElCoCo
Myrmidon looks absolutely hot and that's enough for me to buy it and use it Very Happy

Not everyone wants to weild the +5 sword of l33tness (or of 1000 truthsRazz) when playing.


No denying it looks a very nice ship.

But I STILL havnt seen ANY math or reason that supports what alot of people keap saying about 5 heavy drones being overpowered, or how you put it "+5 sword of l33tness"

If you do the math 5 heavy drones on it, and using all medium blasters which to be fair wont ever realy happen as not only is the ship extremely slow but the grid/cpu dont allow for it to be set up with them efficiently, but lets suppose you do, it still only does comparible damage and lower damage in some cases than the other tier 2 BCs.

So please explain HOW allowing it to use 5 heavy drones makes it the "+5 sword of l33tness"

dalman
TunDraGon
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.10.28 12:08:00 - [51]
 

It took me 5 seconds of looking at the stats of the Myrmid...
... to see that it's about as useful as reinforced bulkheads and regenerative membranes.

But then I've only trained BC 5 for commandships, and I figure the Myrmid will have been boosted before they ever make a T2 version of it, so I won't bother to spam all the Myrmid topicsRazz

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2006.10.28 12:28:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: dalman
It took me 5 seconds of looking at the stats of the Myrmid...
... to see that it's about as useful as reinforced bulkheads and regenerative membranes.

But then I've only trained BC 5 for commandships, and I figure the Myrmid will have been boosted before they ever make a T2 version of it, so I won't bother to spam all the Myrmid topicsRazz


I was hoping you would move on to spamming those topics, instead of spamming "artillery is fine" in every projectile thread... even Tux agrees artillery is underpowered. Even though he seems to use some graphs from last century... Razz

ElCoCo
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.28 12:32:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Nebuli
So please explain HOW allowing it to use 5 heavy drones makes it the "+5 sword of l33tness"
I didn't say it is, I haven't even used it Razz

I just don't care if it is, I'll just get it cause of it's looks Wink

Temo Jick
Gallente
Posted - 2006.10.28 14:37:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Adrian Kerensky
On test I came up with:

Hi:
5x Heavy electron t2 (Antimatter/Void), 1x Med Diminishing, 2x Small Diminishing

Med:
10mn MWD, 20km scram, Fleeting web, T2 med cap booster (800s), tracking disruptor

Low:
2x T2 Med Rep, 2x EANM2, Pseudoelectron DC

4x Ogre T2

Seemed to work ok.


How well did the capacitor hold out?

Shardrael
Caldari
The Fimbriani
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2006.10.28 19:48:00 - [55]
 

is it the best ship to ever come out of ccp? no

but it looks damn cool and is very capable in the right hands, and personally that is all it takes to get me to fly it and see what I can accomplish in game as opposed to on paper.YARRRR!!

dalman
TunDraGon
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.10.28 19:54:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Shardrael
and see what I can accomplish in game as opposed to on paper.YARRRR!!

Heh, there's no difference what so ever between "on paper" and "ingame", except for lag Rolling Eyes

Butter Dog
Gallente
The Monocled Elite
Posted - 2006.10.28 20:21:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Temo Jick
Originally by: Adrian Kerensky
On test I came up with:

Hi:
5x Heavy electron t2 (Antimatter/Void), 1x Med Diminishing, 2x Small Diminishing

Med:
10mn MWD, 20km scram, Fleeting web, T2 med cap booster (800s), tracking disruptor

Low:
2x T2 Med Rep, 2x EANM2, Pseudoelectron DC

4x Ogre T2

Seemed to work ok.


How well did the capacitor hold out?


Thats EXCATLY the setup I used on test.

It works fine, but any PvPer with a brain kills your drones first and leaves you with seriously crappy DPS. Then you die.

Pharuan
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2006.10.28 20:41:00 - [58]
 

Where it lacks in everything else it makes up in Sex Appeal. I'll make that ship work. My Eos setup transfers over just fine.

Barendar
Posted - 2006.10.28 20:59:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Barendar on 28/10/2006 21:12:17
Edited by: Barendar on 28/10/2006 21:10:09
Edited by: Barendar on 28/10/2006 21:09:44
I'm going to throw common sense out the window and try passive shield tanking it just for the hell of it Very Happy.

i was thinking something along the lines of

medium nos
medium nos
medium neut
medium electron blaster
medium electron blaster
medium electron blaster
medium electron blaster
medium electron blaster

1 webber
1 20km scrambler
1 invuln field 2
large shield extender 2
large shield extender 2

shield power relay
shield power relay
shield power relay
shield power relay
shield power relay


not 100% sure it'l fit, done completely from memory of that it's fittings were, might have made a mistake or 2. Didn't do any proper math on the pg/cpu needed either, but i'm fairly sure that should fit (may even be able to switch a few up to ions).

Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2006.10.28 21:55:00 - [60]
 

How are you going to get in range without an ab or mwd?


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