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Sphynx Stormlord
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2006.11.10 10:21:00 - [91]
 

It would be nice if Rigs could be built either from salvage (as now) OR from normal minerals and components, giving one a choice when using the blueprints.

It stands to reason that the salvage materials were things one can build with minerals and components, as they come from ships which can be built. Therefor people building rigs should be able to make them, at increased expense, from new components instead of broken ones.

Alternativly, having blueprints for the salvage components, so that they can be manufactured separatly, for people who want to use new components instead of rubbish.

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2006.11.10 19:30:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Mephysto
Wrecks now drop in place of the old cargo containers. They cause no more or less lag than the cans did. As stated above, they do not pop when emptied because you also have the new ability to salvage wrecks, and potentially find components for rig manufacturing. 4, 5 and 6 are all probably bugs. Please check they are listed on the bugs thread on this forum, so we can review them later when we have a stable build.


#4 isnt a bug, Self destructing a ship always resolved in all modules being destroyed too, thats the whole point of self destructing anyways.. but who am I telling this!


Chris2746
Gallente
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.11.11 21:17:00 - [93]
 

It would be likely that the rig components would be seeded at least in small numbers when kali goes live so the issue of having to have a rig to salvage to build a rig to salvage stuff to make rigs probably wouldnt be an issue.

Also, as of the last time i was able to get on the test server (couple days now that the server's been locked) salvagers, or salvager BPOs were not seeded in lonetrek, or anywhere in that vicinity.

voidvim
Minmatar
Genco
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.12 13:24:00 - [94]
 

Edited by: voidvim on 12/11/2006 13:35:43
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord
It would be nice if Rigs could be built either from salvage (as now) OR from normal minerals and components, giving one a choice when using the blueprints.

It stands to reason that the salvage materials were things one can build with minerals and components, as they come from ships which can be built. Therefor people building rigs should be able to make them, at increased expense, from new components instead of broken ones.

Alternativly, having blueprints for the salvage components, so that they can be manufactured separatly, for people who want to use new components instead of rubbish.


True , I think when we built a item in a factory the factory most built all the salvage components (that riggs use) when it builts the item. Making sub-components first, then puting them together to make a finished item. Thus their is no reason for use not to able to make the salvage components.

But ccp wants rigging to be done via salvaging to make a new mini profession. It's not logical of course, but that's ccp for you.

Doc Extropy
Gallente
Cruentus Invicta
The Covenant Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.15 08:24:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Doc Extropy on 15/11/2006 08:27:48
Edited by: Doc Extropy on 15/11/2006 08:27:12
I urgently request that CCP gives us a tool to identify wrecks from which we have already looted. Shocked

If you use an alt for loot retrieval who is also your logistics guy it would be more than annoying having each mission take the double time because you have to try to salvage each wreck.

Renaming is the way to go, but the system says "can't rename that kind of object". VERY inconveniant, my dears, very inconveniant. ugh

I hope this is not meant as an npc hunting / mission running nerf.

Admiral Pieg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.15 19:10:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Doc Extropy
Edited by: Doc Extropy on 15/11/2006 08:27:48
Edited by: Doc Extropy on 15/11/2006 08:27:12
I urgently request that CCP gives us a tool to identify wrecks from which we have already looted. Shocked

If you use an alt for loot retrieval who is also your logistics guy it would be more than annoying having each mission take the double time because you have to try to salvage each wreck.

Renaming is the way to go, but the system says "can't rename that kind of object". VERY inconveniant, my dears, very inconveniant. ugh

I hope this is not meant as an npc hunting / mission running nerf.


im not sure what it would nerf, besides our sanity

Xaeon
Invicta.
Posted - 2006.11.15 19:13:00 - [97]
 

The bpo for the tool is up - though the description says it's just a scanner, and I've yet to test this further.

I'm currently trying to scan wrecks but they just keep telling me that there is nothing worth salvaging.

Is this supposed to be the case at the moment?
Anyone else tried this?

Kylania
Gallente
Phoenix Industries
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:51:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Doc Extropy
I urgently request that CCP gives us a tool to identify wrecks from which we have already looted. Shocked


This is absolutely vital. The inability to determine which wrecks have been checked for cargo will be crippling to mission runners. Either they'll have to spend all their time salvaging everything, or all their time trying to destroy everything.

A different symbol for a full wreck vs empty wreck or perhaps have wrecks disappear 30 seconds after being emptied. That way if you are into salvage you can still empty and start to salvage it, but if you're not you won't be bothered by it.

Xaeon
Invicta.
Posted - 2006.11.15 21:12:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Kylania
Originally by: Doc Extropy
I urgently request that CCP gives us a tool to identify wrecks from which we have already looted. Shocked


This is absolutely vital. The inability to determine which wrecks have been checked for cargo will be crippling to mission runners. Either they'll have to spend all their time salvaging everything, or all their time trying to destroy everything.

A different symbol for a full wreck vs empty wreck or perhaps have wrecks disappear 30 seconds after being emptied. That way if you are into salvage you can still empty and start to salvage it, but if you're not you won't be bothered by it.


Something as simple as a different coulour would do it tbh.

Coniglietta Magica
Posted - 2006.11.15 22:30:00 - [100]
 

Except for those of us that are colour deficient...

I have a crazy hard time seeing the red ship icons most of the time...

Joran Ven
Posted - 2006.11.16 02:15:00 - [101]
 

Ok the scanner is indeed the item used to get the goodies, at the base standerds granted on test (salvage 3) I was getting items about a third of the time, the scanner itself also has a failure rate though it will keep trying untill it succeeds.

Korvin Eeex
Gallente
Ancestors Of The Half Ninjas
Posted - 2006.11.16 11:22:00 - [102]
 

I did some testing on wrecks and idea behind wrecks is not bad but implementation could be better.

Good:
- You can tractor wrecks same as loot cans.
- Even with Salvaging skills on lvl 1, chance to salvage wreck is pretty good.

Things that need to be improved:
- Looted wrecks must be marked (different color, different icon). As it is now you dont have a clue if wreck is already looted or not and that is very annoying.
- There should be some progres bar for Salvager (same as with ECM, dampeners). As it is now you dont know what is going on - you only see salvager activated and that is all. Many times you will get message that Salvager missed to pick up material from wreck and it will go to next cycle - so progress bar should be there to show what is going on.
- It should be possible to salvage wreck even if loot is in wreck. If you didnt pick up loot and you salvaged wreck loot is lost together with wreck. As it is now you need to take loot from every single wreck and your cargo hold will be full in no time, so you have to jettison loot very often. But this is probably intention of CCP to introduce salvaging profession and make people working as team.

Number of Salvaged materials (tested on NPCs only):
Frigate size ship: 1
Destroyer size ship: 1
Cruiser size ship: 1
Battlecruiser size ship: 1
Battleship size ship: 1 and very rare 2

Rigs BPOs are tweaked and quantity of salvaged materials for producing rigs are much lower now. But you will need somewhere between 50 - few hundreds of different salvaged material (usually 3 different materials for each rig). So if you get from 2 x BS and 2 x frigate spawn 4pcs of salvaged materials for one rig someone has to kill and salvage anywhere from 10 - 100 spawns to be able to make one rig and that is a lot. I did not try to hunt NPCs in 0.5 but I presume there will also be possible to get some materials (these will probably be cheaper because of bigger number of people ratting in 0.5 or safe sec in general).

Salvaging is only as CCP stated 'Mini Profession'. I cannot see people that are ratting (especially in 0.0) to be salvagers at same time. It is time consuming job and it will make ratting to take even more time, so I presume some people will fit special ships and be 'salvagers' going after ratter and salvaging wreck after wreck.

I tried multiple Salvagers at one ship but it seems that only one is enough.

I didnt try to salvage wreck from other player. I presume that taking loot from other people wreck will mark you red for 15 mins but not sure what will happen if loot is not there and someone salvage only materials from wreck. It will probably make you red, same as with loot but it has to be confirmed. If that is not a case marking wreck without loot by different color/icon makes even more sense.

Metacannibal
Viper-Squad
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2006.11.16 19:42:00 - [103]
 

salvage ratios seem VERY VERY low on player ships.
i have just salvaged five! moros class dreadnaught wrecks, and in return i got four salvage components.
that sounds VERY VERY VERY low. if thats really the ratio of these drops, i can not see anyone using rigs realistically due to exorbitant rarity.
i did assume that rigs were kind of a treat for pvpers, something that would drop from npc's but mostly from player ships. now if you consider previous reported ratios on npcs, how do you expect these items to get use outside of "multi billion isk empire mission runner ravens" if they are so rare, even on player capital ships.

Shayla Etherodyne
Posted - 2006.11.17 11:17:00 - [104]
 

the only test I had the time to do after the last patch:
12 drone wrecks - 0 salvare
2 building - 0 salvage

average 3-4 cycles each try.

A good quantity of time for 0 success, and losing a middle slot during a complex run.

The best chance for salvaging plaing solo? A barge in a 0.5 system. Mine and launch the drones. While you mine a full jetcan you will be attacked multiple times by rats. Equip the industrial you use to recover the jetcan with tractor beam and a salvager and voila, you can recover minerals, loot and salvage. I don't think that was the idea behind the salvagin.
Confused

Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
Posted - 2006.11.17 20:46:00 - [105]
 

How much space do salvaged items take up?

Just wondering am I going to need a much larger cargo hold to loot now?

Currently I use a 1000m3 cruiser to look in lvl 4 mission(more tractor beams than a hauler)

Now I'm guessing I will get the same amount of loot with Kali but now I'll be looting for rig equipment. How much more space can I expect to be taken up for this stuff?

Thanks

Devick Baalreth
Posted - 2006.11.18 00:46:00 - [106]
 

The issue I run into is that its too time consuming with failures. I don't mind failures but 7 in a row makes me wanna self destroy my ship and scrap the whole thing. I wouldn't mind spending 30 seconds per wreck if it would stop failing so much. 7 failures means 70s. Still have no idea what the salvaging goes for you, I get cargo space taken up with items that sound like they are unrecoverable but say they can be. Other then that I don't know what to do with them, Repairshop? Refinement?

Its a unique idea, and having to work for components is a good idea to me. But after a while its just not worth the mid slot. Especially when you're ratting a lot.

When I go back on tonight, I will be trying salvage again.

Any information on the step after the salvaging is done would be nice.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2006.11.18 08:52:00 - [107]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 18/11/2006 08:54:26
You need tto buy the BPO for the rigging and build them with the salvaged items.
The problem for me is the combo: 30 second for attempt in the 5 km range of the salvager, average of about 3 attempt for 1 result (90 seconds average for wreck, about 1/4 of the wrecks with salvage), move to next wrek to loot then salvage.
To do it in a half decent time you have 2 option
a) fast frigate with salvager and good cargo space(a Probe?);
b) Cargo cruiser (exequror) or industrial with tractors beams and salvagers.

Option a is the one for new players, but I dubt new players will spend the skill point for learnining the salvaging skill;
Option B is a totally non combat ship - worth it only in specific situations.

So basically new players, the ones that will need more the income, will not be picking wrecks, PvPers will be picking wreks only in systems they control and where they have a salvage ship; mission runners will be picking wrecks only after completing the mission it they are still there and probably will lose not only most of the wreck but most of the loot too to the expiration time of cans as the higher number of wreck and the impossibility to identify the ones looted make recovering them during the mission a totally waste of time.

End result: salvaged items will be a rare commodity.

Dr Smog
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2006.11.18 22:14:00 - [108]
 

Has the obvious exploit been blocked? i.e. repeatedly popping your own alt in a noobship for free salvage? I'm hoping noob ship give no salvage - otherwise the only cost-efficient source of salvage items is going to be farming salvage from noob alts in a war-decced corp.

DukeJoost1
The Last Solution Inc
Posted - 2006.11.18 23:25:00 - [109]
 

So do mission Very Happy, bookmarks cans , dock, complete mission Smile, hop into hauler with tractor and salvager, warp to bookmark ... hey bookmarks dont work ShockedShocked!!!!
Goodbye loot Sad

Ikarushka
Gallente
CryoTech Engineering
Posted - 2006.11.19 02:44:00 - [110]
 

I think the missions specific items drop into cans (like if they ask you to bring reports), not sure if that's suppose to be that way

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2006.11.19 08:28:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Ikarushka
I think the missions specific items drop into cans (like if they ask you to bring reports), not sure if that's suppose to be that way


I think and hope it is supposed to be that way, so you don't have to check 40 items repeatedly to get the right can. There is the added problem that can can't be tractored, so you need to get to hit with your soo slow BS. In a good number of missions while still under fire.
Bye Bye to the hit and snatch missions. You must always grind all the enemyes.

Hohenheim OfLight
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.11.19 13:04:00 - [112]
 

Does loot not drop at all any more I dont seam to be able to find loot, is salvaged the only way now?

Ikarushka
Gallente
CryoTech Engineering
Posted - 2006.11.19 19:12:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight
Does loot not drop at all any more I dont seam to be able to find loot, is salvaged the only way now?


There is loot inside the wreck; once you take it out you can try to salvge the wreck. So it works exactly like cans did with loot, it just looks differently

DukeJoost1
The Last Solution Inc
Posted - 2006.11.19 20:27:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Ikarushka
I think the missions specific items drop into cans (like if they ask you to bring reports), not sure if that's suppose to be that way


Indeed, and tractor beams do NOT work on them !!!

Fly safe

Clone runner
Posted - 2006.11.20 01:27:00 - [115]
 

i think wrecks should get a hp boost, carrier wreck only taking 400dmg lol
if you pop an enemy carrier there just going to pop the wreck in an interceptor or sniper and laugh before you salvage it, (assuming they give anything worthwhile from salvage anyway, i would like to think they do considering the ships cost)

Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
Posted - 2006.11.20 14:54:00 - [116]
 

ok to answer my own question if someone else is wondering, So far I have seen tha salavaged items take up 1 m3.

Now some have said the scanning results are pretty good while other say it fails to often.

I would have to agree that it fails to often. On test sever we are given the skill trained to lvl 3. Now I would think the # of times it is currently failing might happen at lvl 1 or lvl 2. I think it fails to often for lvl 3.

NOw I didn't look at the skill very closly but can we get perfect scanning at lvl 5? if not that definally need to make it better. Lvl 5 should be success ever time. any mods that improve scanning should decress the time taken.

Malena
Shiva
Posted - 2006.11.20 16:19:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Ikarushka
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight
Does loot not drop at all any more I dont seam to be able to find loot, is salvaged the only way now?


There is loot inside the wreck; once you take it out you can try to salvge the wreck. So it works exactly like cans did with loot, it just looks differently


So in noob terms...when a ship is destroyed, a random (ha-ha) amount of modules/items will be destroyed and the rest left in the wreck. You recover the wreck, presuming you want to spend the time waiting for the scanner and hoping it won't fail. Then you try and salvage something from the wreck, and you have a chance to lose items during that as well?

Seems like CCP's attempt to at least slow down inflation. Suddenly you aren't getting a ton of crap loot from drops, which means that simultaneously gaining ISK through bounties and minerals through recycle is done, which means less minerals in circulation, which means the price goes up and people actually have to start thinking about their purchases, 100 million thrown here or there is no longer a simple thing like it is for a lot of people. (Unfortunately, I am not one of those!) This will also drive up the price of the middle of the road modules-the lower end will stay pretty much the same for a good bit of time, there are too many of them in the game. But the middle of road, rare-but-not-uber-rare modules will likely see a slight increase in prices.

Or am I just reading too much into it?

Kaden Seer
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.11.20 17:29:00 - [118]
 

Agreed, transition needs more work

RedClaws
Amarr
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.11.21 07:49:00 - [119]
 

What do you guys think about the models for the capital ship wrecks? I'm not sure if i have some kind of graphical bug or not but there seem to be holes cut out of the model making it look quite bad.

ShadeLiner
Posted - 2006.11.21 08:18:00 - [120]
 

Last time I was able to enter Sisi the salvage module wasn't jet available. To address some of the above problem, a combo tractor beam/salvage module can be a solution, or to be more clear, giving to salvage module the ability to tractor the wreck.
As thing stand, a dedicate salvager in a slow ship need to use 2 modules: 1 high for the tractor beam, and another for the salvage module (a middle i think). That will be a big nerfing for the PvE players Sad, the ones that have the greatest chance to have big numbers of wrecks.


anoter option for corporate so after the large mission can come the hauler and the scavangers to clear the space..


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