open All Channels
seplocked Test Server Feedback
blankseplocked Fighters and Drones
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (10)

Author Topic

Nihilion Saro
Gallente
Stray Cats Social Club
Posted - 2006.10.28 16:56:00 - [61]
 

Why does everyone act like its so easy to just recall and redeploy them with full shields? Does anybody realize how long it takes to recall heavy drones 20km? Assuming they come back at their max speed... which they don't always appear to do, that should take somewhere between 20-30 seconds. Another 10 seconds to actually get in the hold and be redeployed, and another few seconds back to the target....Oh, yeah. And all of this with a 0 transversal velocity relative to the enemy.

Assuming they don't get destroyed on their way back (and assuming they don't "get stuck" like half of them usually do).. that's 30-60 seconds that I dont have fire on the enemy, while they enemy has fire on me. And besides, it only repairs shields, not armor or structure.

The recall technique is not feasible. To keep constant fire on the enemy, you need to be keeping spares in your hold and replacing them as they go down. Now that ships have higher HP, my drones will have to last longer than before.

Increase HP on drones, or lower their sig (way to big anyway), or increase the size of drone bays.

Please don't nerf drones again.

voidvim
Minmatar
Genco
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.28 19:05:00 - [62]
 

/signed

Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Collegium Mechanicae
Posted - 2006.10.28 19:06:00 - [63]
 

Quote:
Why, so you can use the stupidly overpowered 'return to bay' and then redeploy with full HP? While the enemy spent valuable ammo/cap/time trying to kill your drones and you just waste all that time. Rolling Eyes


golly, your a drone expert.

why not make up an rule that turret users cant reload. prevent those cheaters from releasing brand new undamaged bullets after their target has spent their cap and their time surviving the other ones. makes just as much sense.

the HP boost is a straight up nerf for drones and fighters. people are proving this on the test server.
they need a boost to stay in the game, or give them the ability to tear off the enemy turrets and missle bays.

Admiral Pieg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.10.28 20:31:00 - [64]
 

as someone with 5 mill sp in drones, signed a million times

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.28 22:11:00 - [65]
 

Curious how no Dev comment on this yet. One of the few stickies not to. Makes me nervous.

Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.10.28 22:30:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Ath Amon
as drones are alredy very efficent with (- - -) full damage choice,


Tell me a bit more about this "full damage choice".

Do you mean that a drone user can switch their damage types according to what they are against? (Not really, carriers excepted.)

Or that they can pre-choose their damage type with total freedom? (Hint: check the damage modifiers of the different drones.)

Originally by: Ath Amon

less speed problem than normal weapons, not linked to droneboat speed...


Sorry, I really don't understand what you're saying here. Please elaborate?

Originally by: Ath Amon
the only real cons of drone is the fact that they can be destroyed.


Don't I wish. If the ship has to warp out, they're gone. They're the slowest weapon to start doing damage and they have a short range. Someone compared using drones to herding cats and there're quite a few similarities...

Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Collegium Mechanicae
Posted - 2006.10.28 23:02:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Someone compared using drones to herding cats and there're quite a few similarities...


cats have smaller sig.

Ath Amon
Posted - 2006.10.29 02:33:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Ath Amon on 29/10/2006 02:33:55
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Ath Amon
as drones are alredy very efficent with (- - -) full damage choice,


Tell me a bit more about this "full damage choice".

Do you mean that a drone user can switch their damage types according to what they are against? (Not really, carriers excepted.)

Or that they can pre-choose their damage type with total freedom? (Hint: check the damage modifiers of the different drones.)


carrier can do that, domi can do that too, but is more "efficent" in some pirating situations (like low sec/belt pirating) where maybe you can't know what damage to use, but for sure you can exclude a pair of damage type, you can reduce a bit your base dps but you gain in "unresisted damage"

Originally by: Theron Gyrow

Originally by: Ath Amon

less speed problem than normal weapons, not linked to droneboat speed...


Sorry, I really don't understand what you're saying here. Please elaborate?


simply... drones have less tracking issues than turrets so for example... maybe 800mm have a lot of troubles traking a ship orbiting at 2k/s but for drones is not that big problem

speed not linked to droneboat
her an example... a nanophoon can orbit at 5k/s around a BS... for its guns it will be impossible to track/hit the target, but its heavy drone have no problems to do that

Originally by: Theron Gyrow

Originally by: Ath Amon
the only real cons of drone is the fact that they can be destroyed.


Don't I wish. If the ship has to warp out, they're gone. They're the slowest weapon to start doing damage and they have a short range. Someone compared using drones to herding cats and there're quite a few similarities...


sure is not nice to have to leave drones behind, but when you warp out you are also exiting from combat... hopefully you can get new drones before a new engagement so the problem here is mostly a money loss... but also consider that drones use no ammo so, as long as you don't lose them you have no manteinance costs.

also i can agree that the cost can be quite high for an hard core "drone" pvper, but as said you have many pros from drones and not that many cons...

of course i'm leaving bugs a bit out of the discussion as there is the hope they will be corrected... (i use drones too and i know how silly are the "anarchic drones")

eveplayer11
Posted - 2006.10.29 02:47:00 - [69]
 

i would like to see turrets/launchers get damaged and destroyed in combat so they can feel the pain. i mean why not? you ship is bombarded but the guns keep working no matter what...

until weapon modules start to take damage in combat id like to see drones get a nice juicy survival boost, support drones can remain the same imo.

i realy like the drone bay to repair drones hull/armor slowly. would be better if we could just could start using crews on our ships so ship hull/armor slowly regenerates too aslong as you have some crew alive working, when you take hull damage a % of the crew dies depending on how mutch hull you have left. perhaps in the future.. YARRRR!!

Unfamed II
Caldari
NPC Corporation
Paisti Syndicate
Posted - 2006.10.29 03:05:00 - [70]
 

/signed with love <3
Drones die easy enough already, and with all the ships getting hp boost, they are actually getting a crapload of resisted hp boost. Drones don't get the added bonus of resists from modules.

Fighters definitely need the 50% hp boost.

And give nidhoggur a bit better bonus.

Kanshisha 2nd
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.10.29 04:11:00 - [71]
 

On a slightly different matter, although still with respects to drones and fighters,

1) a fighter MWD's to the target, it even MWD's to a buddy when allocated, WHY doesnt it not MWD back to the carrier?

2) if a ship is under attack, and drones are already launched, they will defend the ship, if however you launch drones AFTER you are being attacked the drones sit there eating pop-corn watching the show.... WHY do drones not notice the shots that take place AFTER the first? add a button "DEFEND ME" under the drone category so that the drones can do something rather than sit there and watch you die.

3) As for the scoop - re-deploy tactic, have you actually ever tried this with fighters?? i dont mean to sound harsh, but a dia-abled snail could make it back faster!

4) Skills for drones should effect fighters also (or at the very least add a "specialization" after the main skill to improve both drones AND Fighters.

5) I agree fully that fighters / drones should be given the same boost as other ships, and also that a module (or perhaps a rig) would allow for drones to be repaired (slowly) in the drone-bay

6) ok i have repair drones, and i can get them to repair each other... WHY cant i get them to repair me?? this is insane!!

These in my eyes are problems that need seriously addressing with drones in general.

Kanshisha

Drutort
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.10.29 07:00:00 - [72]
 

the biggest problem with drones and fighters and i said this... they could make drones like turrets in a way... with the options that you have on your ship... stop move, move at X speed mwd on/off, approach keep range at X, orbit at X range...

this was needed from day one to drones... then they could have proper tracking as they should and you would have more control of them... i want them to stop moving NOT STOP shooting!! there are 2 diff things when you tell your drones to stop shooting or stop moving...

i would like to see drones coming back to you at regular speed or at mwd speed and option to stop shooting or keep shooting until they dock in your bay.

i would like this to be set maybe by groups, like have the gang squads for your drones... assign each drone to a squad and then give that squad commands, individual commands would be sweet too but not sure if possible or if it creates lag? I donít think it should be that bad all ships have max of 5 drones only carriers and motherships have more?

El'jonson
Posted - 2006.10.29 11:20:00 - [73]
 

Basically what all drone specialists want is for drones to be treated as anoughter 'full' weapon system, instead of the surport weapon that most people see them as.

Drones need to be able to last longer in a fight, wether this is through more hp or higher resists or decreasing their sig radius so they are harder to hit. Very Happy

The bugs with the drones/fighters need fixing seriously its getting beyond a joke when a guy flying a carrier gets dropped by the server and loses all his fighters, this should of been sorted before carrier were released and a year on (nearly) its still broke. Sad

In line with drones being treated as a full weapon system they need more commands (that work), such as defend target etc like drone users have been asking for. Very Happy

Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Collegium Mechanicae
Posted - 2006.10.29 20:25:00 - [74]
 

im with you Patch. the lack of gold bars is worrying.
someone from dev team could at least come in and say "we aint changing anything for you, STFU nubs and go train caldari"

I wouldnt like it, but it would beat being ignored by a slim margin.

Drutort
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.10.29 20:39:00 - [75]
 

they might as well delay the patch until they fix capital ships (carriers) bonus and the fighter/drones because tbh its a very big part of the game now, it has to be fixed you cant have fighters that go at regular speed to your drone bay when every ship has hp boost and able to tank them... and pop your fighters real easy

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Posted - 2006.10.29 23:19:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Vyktor Abyss


/Signed

I think drones need attention in a few ways.

Signature radius decrease (10-15% less?) makes sense to me, as does the durability skill being pumped another 5% per level for drones and fighters effectively allowing better specialisation...then a small universal hp boost to all drones, much less than the universal ship boosts though (say 10-15%?). I'd hope these changes would combine to give more differentiaton from poor drone skills pilots, to good drone skills pilots (though I admittedly am no great funambulist). :)

Immediate scooping and redeploying of drones - I'm agreed that if used in a close range fight this mechanic would annoy me a lot if I were the one trying to pop the opponents drones only to see them scooped then come back on full shield every time they get low - but as a tactical suggestion people really should just think of popping the enemy ship so the drones die anyway. :)

One possible solution to this is the idea of a delay in redeploying scooped drones which could work by giving ships a dronebay repair speed attribute (X hp/sec - with some droneship bonuses please) for conducting repairs in bay and saying that only fully repaired drones can be relaunched.

Personally I mostly fly a Thorax and although I have skills for tech II Hammerheads, with a price of roughly 2 mil each - 5 of them costs more than my actual ship!! Combine those costs with your modules and it makes being Gallente just too god damn expensive to compete!!

I've also seen how easy heavy drones get popped which makes me think it'd currently be a bit of a waste of time getting the skills for Ogre II's. And after reading the above comments from the experts I'm convinced fighters would be a massive disappointment too (especially relative to the cost).

After Kali with fights lasting longer, drones will inevitably get popped more, so risking 10 mil of drones every combat becomes even less viable since even if I win a fight and lose my drones - I've effectively lost more than my ship is worth!

And to the person who was whining about cost of ammo (& time) lost on firing on drones that get redeployed!?!? Pffft...Maybe you'd like to try leaving half your guns behind every time you warp away since they're not responding properly to orders!

Just my tuppence worth...Thanks.

Ansuru Starlancer
UK1 Zero
Posted - 2006.10.30 03:09:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Ansuru Starlancer on 30/10/2006 03:10:11
Originally by: Tek'a Rain
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Someone compared using drones to herding cats and there're quite a few similarities...


cats have smaller sig.


Cats only pull aggro from all dogs on the block, rather than in the entire city :p



Signed. Drones do need more HP. Anyone bishing about the recall-and-release tactic has never tried doing it at anything other than point blank in-yo-face range (the only range at which it isn't WORTHLESS tyvm!)

Running Mann
Posted - 2006.10.30 07:05:00 - [78]
 

Anybody *****ing about the redeployment must not use drones much, or else must not use drones at anything past 5km. I'm sorry, but I enjoy using mine out to 40-90km and they're at a huge risk once on their way back, since they fly a straight trajectory of course and that significantly lowers their transversal in many cases. Maybe with a health boost or sig reduction (would be in favor a signature reducing skill) they'd make it home more often when trouble strikes.

Turtla
U Itachi
Posted - 2006.10.30 08:45:00 - [79]
 

Im just thinking, will the rigs only work for drones or will they work for fighters also?
Or will fighters be the only(i think) weapon that does not have the ability of some kind of boost with the rigs?

Maverick McDougel
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.10.30 10:01:00 - [80]
 

you can get back fighter drones that you loose due to loosing connection by petitioning, but it can take days and it wastes the GM's time. they should just make them return to you and scoop themselves back to your hold since you sit in space at 1 mil km for 1 minute if you have no agression timer or up to 15 minutes if you do hve an agression timer.

Matori Kar
Caldari
SlightlyAnnoyingGitCorp
Posted - 2006.10.30 12:53:00 - [81]
 

Why is this the only sticky without any form of Dev response? ugh

Dari Vire
Posted - 2006.10.30 14:09:00 - [82]
 

the no wmd back to ship is so annoying i just jetcan something usually and tell them to attack it to get around it.

I like the fact that the drones don't run off and attack things on there own all though it would be good to have a toggle to seek and destroy.

Vicious Phoenix
Posted - 2006.10.30 15:24:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Ath Amon

simply... drones have less tracking issues than turrets so for example... maybe 800mm have a lot of troubles traking a ship orbiting at 2k/s but for drones is not that big problem


Have you ever seen non-light drones hit a 2km/s frig? Thats what I thought. And don't tell me small turrets won't hit that same frig, because they will.

Originally by: Ath Amon

speed not linked to droneboat
her an example... a nanophoon can orbit at 5k/s around a BS... for its guns it will be impossible to track/hit the target, but its heavy drone have no problems to do that


Its missiles won't have any problem hitting either. What you describe affects only turrets, not missiles or drones. Nerf missiles too?

Drones really do need a significant HP boost especially if all the ships are getting a 50% boost. I suggest at least 100%, since drone HP now is rather low imo.


Scylla V
R E D E M P T I O N
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.30 15:33:00 - [84]
 

Increase in hitpoints is definately needed for both drones and fighters.

Also, as someone else mentioned, a DEFEND option is needed. It makes no sense for drones to just orbit your ship and not shoot people that aggressed you.

I mean it's only fair, missile users can still keep fighting (FOF missiles) even when they have no target lock. So why can't drones ?
Someone is gonna ask for FOF ammo rounds now, you'll see :-)

Chronojam
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.10.30 16:13:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Chronojam on 30/10/2006 16:14:33
Originally by: Maverick McDougel
you can get back fighter drones that you loose due to loosing connection by petitioning, but it can take days and it wastes the GM's time. they should just make them return to you and scoop themselves back to your hold since you sit in space at 1 mil km for 1 minute if you have no agression timer or up to 15 minutes if you do hve an agression timer.

I never knew this was possible. I lost a couple 2 mil value HH2 due to a particular kind of deadspace crashing/connectiondropping me in a prior version with varying frequency, and did not think that my loss due to "lag/computer problems" would be acceptable.


Yes, warping out with drones deployed, or crashing/disconnecting and losing them in space, if they're T2 like any real drone user uses, is instantly dropping around five to ten million worth of drones that aren't even in any kind of good supply anywhere. And not only is it dropping ten million of drones, it's also somebody else probably getting a chance to snap them up, and you sitting there *defenseless* assuming you built your ship around your drones (just like somebody with high gunnery might build around his guns, or somebody with strong shield skills might build a tank around his shields)


Also, signing on for the defend option; both a defend-me and a defend-this-nonhostile-overview-target option. I'd like to sometimes be able to send my drones out to just wait somewhere or watch over a buddy.

Cosmic Flame
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2006.10.30 19:07:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Cosmic Flame on 30/10/2006 19:08:07
Good point.

If a drone ship crashes, then the drones should also dissappear or something and remain in the player's control when he logs back on. Before with cheap T1 drones it wasn't such a big loss but now... with fighters and T2 drones it's a big issue. You lose connection or the node crashes and bye bye tens if not hundreds of millions worth of drones. It's not fair.

Celestos Marxii
Posted - 2006.10.30 20:03:00 - [87]
 

signed signed signed signed!

Nihilion Saro
Gallente
Stray Cats Social Club
Posted - 2006.10.30 20:20:00 - [88]
 

CCP, if you want a Dominix to do the same damage with 5 drones it used to do with 15 (before RMR), the battleships skill drone damage/HP bonus should be 20%, not 10.

Please change this along with the increase in drone/fighter HP so drone ships will remain a viable platform. You're cutting it pretty close... especially if you nerf NOS and neuts, as i've heard some speculation of.

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.30 20:52:00 - [89]
 

This is getting dangerously close to 4 pages- and if a thread reaches 4 pages without a Dev comment, you know its not likely to.

Probably means they're still thinking about it. If they'd made their mind up either way, they'd have let us know...............probably.

Mothmar Friedsquid
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.10.30 21:18:00 - [90]
 

Odd that noone really complains about drone signatures being so bloody huge except me. How is it that you can stuff a full capsule, all the life support systems it needs, a warp drive, and 160M^3 of cargo in a frigate and it doesn't give off as much of a heat signature as a blaster with an AI in it?


Pages: first : previous : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (10)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only