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Nyobe
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.27 00:28:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Nyobe on 27/10/2006 00:29:26
Boosting the drone HP is a must. Now, you can kill all kind of drones, from light to heavy, with just a few volley. So fast that it won't give the drone user enough time to scoop them (greetings mr. latency).

Battles will last way longer, especially between battleships, and Drone user will get serious problem with their main weapon destroyed after half of the battle.

Fighter drones don't last long enough, too. They are worth like 20mil and they shouldn't pop as fast as a plated frigatte. Even if Devs see them as something like that.

Dupac
Subite
Posted - 2006.10.27 00:55:00 - [32]
 

In that case cap reliant ships (I'm thinking lasers here :) should get a boost to cap or they are getting a silent nerf just like drone boats?

murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2006.10.27 01:41:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Dupac
In that case cap reliant ships (I'm thinking lasers here :) should get a boost to cap or they are getting a silent nerf just like drone boats?


Blaster ships (mega) as well...

Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.10.27 01:51:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Dupac
In that case cap reliant ships (I'm thinking lasers here :) should get a boost to cap or they are getting a silent nerf just like drone boats?


This is true.

In any case. The fighter HP must be boosted.

Carriers should also get some mods and skills that boost fighters. As it stands now 3 things in the game affect fighters:
1. Fighters Skill
2. Drone Control Modules
3. Gallente Carrier Skill

Carrier pilots have no way to augment their offense and so every carrier setup is relatively vanilla.

Something should be change here. Either allow the current drone skills to affect fighters or give us new skills that require specializaiton in the normal drone skills. Allow current mods to affect fighters or give us new capital mods.

Quilan Ziller
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.10.27 03:42:00 - [35]
 

/signed.
Drone HPs need to be increased.
Otherwise, the HP increase becomes an indirect nerf to *smaller*
and very popular drone ships, such as the Ishkur and Vexor
(not as much to the Domi!).
I doubt that anyone would argue that these ships are overpowered as
of now. Their successful deployment depends entirely on the fitting and
tactics. Now, with HP boost, fights will take twice as long. Thus, people
will have twice the time to take out the drones.
A Vexor or Ishkur without their drones = dead Vexor or Ishkur.
Drones will become especially unbalanced compared to missiles.
Hammerheads, for example, are usually one-shotted by people with good missile
skills Neutral
And the Domi will still own. With 375 m3 of drone bay, Domi pilot will
always pack spares. Can't do that in 40 m3 you get with Ishkur.
Oh, and Hammerhead II prices are ridiculous.
Even less people will use them if the drone HPs are not boosted...

Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.10.27 04:21:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Baun
Originally by: Dupac
In that case cap reliant ships (I'm thinking lasers here :) should get a boost to cap or they are getting a silent nerf just like drone boats?


This is true.

In any case. The fighter HP must be boosted.

Carriers should also get some mods and skills that boost fighters. As it stands now 3 things in the game affect fighters:
1. Fighters Skill
2. Drone Control Modules
3. Gallente Carrier Skill

Carrier pilots have no way to augment their offense and so every carrier setup is relatively vanilla.

Something should be change here. Either allow the current drone skills to affect fighters or give us new skills that require specializaiton in the normal drone skills. Allow current mods to affect fighters or give us new capital mods.


I'm leaning towards allowing certain drone skills to affect fighters, i really dont need 3 or 4 more base 12 skills to train as a carrier pilot :(

Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.10.27 06:04:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Fuujin
Originally by: Baun
Originally by: Dupac
In that case cap reliant ships (I'm thinking lasers here :) should get a boost to cap or they are getting a silent nerf just like drone boats?


This is true.

In any case. The fighter HP must be boosted.

Carriers should also get some mods and skills that boost fighters. As it stands now 3 things in the game affect fighters:
1. Fighters Skill
2. Drone Control Modules
3. Gallente Carrier Skill

Carrier pilots have no way to augment their offense and so every carrier setup is relatively vanilla.

Something should be change here. Either allow the current drone skills to affect fighters or give us new skills that require specializaiton in the normal drone skills. Allow current mods to affect fighters or give us new capital mods.


I'm leaning towards allowing certain drone skills to affect fighters, i really dont need 3 or 4 more base 12 skills to train as a carrier pilot :(


As it stands now a carrier pilot cannot specialize but a dominix/ishtar/arbitrator/ishkur/eos/myrmidon/curse/pilgrim pilot can specialize.

Whats wrong with allowing specialization? Are we afraid fighters would become overpowered?

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2006.10.27 07:03:00 - [38]
 


Since this is a sticky, I assume they will be boosted then?

Drutort
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.10.27 09:25:00 - [39]
 

well i dont mind some new fighter skills i think some of hte old basic ones should work as well, if the regular drone skills + beaf up the hp it will work well, but having fighter only skills is a must, its a new type of hmm weapon so you should have more skills for it... its what will make people to be able to spec... from those who just have few fighters and use it a iwin haulerRolling Eyes

Panta Rei
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.10.27 11:00:00 - [40]
 

I certainly hope the fighters are getting the HP boost aswell.

Ozzie Asrail
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.10.27 11:45:00 - [41]
 

Fighter HP - yes
Drone HP - no way

Hex'Caliber
Gallente
Massively Mob
Posted - 2006.10.27 11:46:00 - [42]
 

/Signed

Some of you naysayerís ought to try loosing five or more hammerís at two mil each, god forbid I ever have to face the cost of replacing fighters. If you wish, leave drone and fighter hp as is, then introduce the ability to target an opponentís weapons directly, bringing drone ships inline with the other races, I can just imagine how well that would go down.
Seriously, the overheads for fielding drone ships are far higher than those of any other weapon platform. All we ask is that our investment last just a little while longer to help offset the increased hp of all ships.


MOS DEF
0utbreak
Posted - 2006.10.27 11:52:00 - [43]
 

Boost HP! A single vagabond can kill off 15 fighters given enough time.
Shocked

hitech redneck
Digital Mind Crimes
Posted - 2006.10.27 12:40:00 - [44]
 

wow my first sticky.
as a recent carrier piolt, I'm more interested in boosting the fighters. The carrier is a big money sink alone with fighters costing 18 to 20 mil each they cost more than nice fitted frig.
fighters are suppose to be the size of a frig. Shouldn't they atleast have the armor/shield and damge be equal to a well fitted frig and around the same cost also.
I have seen how fast fiegther pop in combat and how easy they are damaged even by npc rats. The hp change is going to realy gimp the carrier in it abilty to act as a support ship with remote shield/armor boost not to mention its dighting ability.
Don't get me wrong the increase was needed for them to make them more of frontline ship.
In short fighters need some loving they have few few bugs left in them to work out.

XyzzyX
ORB enterprises
Posted - 2006.10.27 12:58:00 - [45]
 

I would like to see T2 sentry drones in Kali.

Little better tracking, damage, optimal and overal HP than T1.
Skills: Sentry drones lv5 and drones range lv4 (or lv5)
Maybe 30m^3 as a drawback (so they will fit only on several large drones ship).


Shabesa
Posted - 2006.10.27 15:09:00 - [46]
 

Leaning towards nay tbh. Simply because it will distinct drone ships from the rest more. Maybe high slot item that acts as repairer for bayed drones (using cap of course)?

Dari Vire
Posted - 2006.10.27 15:52:00 - [47]
 

fix for fighters is simple.

ad 20% base and then let the drone bonus skills apply. tracking, durability, speed.

up the durability from 5% per level to 10% per level for normal drones, 20% per level for fighters.

Let the drone modules apply to fighters.

keep the rest the same.


xenodia
Gallente
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION
ORPHANS OF EVE
Posted - 2006.10.27 15:56:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Aramendel

It would be really nice, though, if the dronebay could function as real maintance bay where drones recharge shield and get their armor and structure repaired *slowly*.


Awesome idea.


Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.10.27 16:21:00 - [49]
 

Another suggestion is that carriers should get more drone types.

Instead of JUST having fighters we should also have anti-capital drones called bombers.

I can see a rationale for having fighter-sized logistic drones and other such different larger drones.

Iyanna Swift
Posted - 2006.10.27 17:44:00 - [50]
 

This could help a little in this area:

Slight drone HP boost 10% or less.
Drone Durability skill boost to 10% per level
Drone Resistance skill 5% resists across the board to armor or shield


Repairing in the bay would be nice as well, but I don't think it's as important.

As for fighters, more shield HP, even 15% or so, would give them much greater durability because of the recharge. They are quite an investment now (SP and ISK), make it a worthwhile one.

Nihilion Saro
Gallente
Stray Cats Social Club
Posted - 2006.10.27 19:41:00 - [51]
 

Can we all just stop nerfing drones, please? Dominix is already nerfed when when we got limited to five drones deployable. The drone damage/hp increase to battleships skill in RMR should have been 40%, not 20, since it used to be able to deloy 15 drones.

Now nerfing again?? and nerfing EW as well??? Oh well, I just have to buy a +5 perception and willpower implants so i can be a gunnery/missiles pilot like everyone else.


Nihilion Saro
Gallente
Stray Cats Social Club
Posted - 2006.10.27 20:15:00 - [52]
 

I mean 20%, not 10%

Mothmar Friedsquid
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.10.27 20:37:00 - [53]
 

/signed.

Drones are already pretty weak. Give out some more drone-specific upgrades and chop their signature radius. It makes 0 sense that an unmanned Ogre I has four times the signature radius of a manned Atron, and almost three times the radius of a Tristan.

Tasty Burger
Posted - 2006.10.27 22:27:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: murder one
I think that drones' armor being repaired slowly while in the drone bay is a great idea. Shields should return to 100% instantly, but armor should slowly be regenerated. Same as when a ship docks in a station.


Why, so you can use the stupidly overpowered 'return to bay' and then redeploy with full HP? While the enemy spent valuable ammo/cap/time trying to kill your drones and you just waste all that time. Rolling Eyes

With the HP boosts thats going to be even worse.

Plus even if the shields didnt recharge instantly, returning drones to bay cancels locks on the drones.

I think that if a drone is engaged it should not be able to be called in. Otherwise drone boats are invulnerable. Drones being killable is part of their (very few) drawbacks.

marcouk2
Gallente
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2006.10.28 02:03:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Tasty Burger
I think that if a drone is engaged it should not be able to be called in. Otherwise drone boats are invulnerable. Drones being killable is part of their (very few) drawbacks.


That would make drones even less of a good weapon than they are now; it would prevent switching drone types mid battle, for example switching to light drones to get rid of an inty scrambling you. Also it means that any ship using drones would be unable to deaggress at all.

Ath Amon
Posted - 2006.10.28 03:16:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: hitech redneck
Edited by: hitech redneck on 26/10/2006 13:10:17
sorry if there is a post about this.
I sure hope ccp increased the hp or shield on fighters and drones to match the increase of the ships.
With the cost of fighters they pop pretty easy now. Just think now that it will take longer to kill ships they become a very high risk investment.


for me is a nono Razz

why?

simple, hps improvement on ship improve the defensive compartment of a ship and is designed to make battle last longer...

drone instead are a weapon/utility, to improve their hps will be like to improve their general efficency... to do a crappy example it could be like to reduce cap usage for lasers or cap consumption for damps...

as drones are alredy very efficent with good damage, full damage choice, ability to hit while droneboat is jammed, less speed problem than normal weapons, not linked to droneboat speed... i think such change is a bit out of place, expecially considering that the only real cons of drone is the fact that they can be destroyed.

Drutort
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.10.28 06:03:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Tasty Burger
Originally by: murder one
I think that drones' armor being repaired slowly while in the drone bay is a great idea. Shields should return to 100% instantly, but armor should slowly be regenerated. Same as when a ship docks in a station.


Why, so you can use the stupidly overpowered 'return to bay' and then redeploy with full HP? While the enemy spent valuable ammo/cap/time trying to kill your drones and you just waste all that time. Rolling Eyes

With the HP boosts thats going to be even worse.

Plus even if the shields didnt recharge instantly, returning drones to bay cancels locks on the drones.

I think that if a drone is engaged it should not be able to be called in. Otherwise drone boats are invulnerable. Drones being killable is part of their (very few) drawbacks.


i have a solution... make it a time delay for drones to undock from the bay... each one has its own timer like few sec before you can undock them if you docked the drones... but you could then launch other drones and use those, and then call those back and use others

but it would then prevent you from using that tool to boost shields.. but you forget that heavy and fighters can be webbed and stopped in there tracks

this should be a small delay, but if this happens then drones should also regen armor and hull in your bay to be fair, or make a module that takes cap and reps the drones in bay

Ipak
Executive Intervention
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2006.10.28 11:46:00 - [58]
 

/me signed
As it is now on the real server, and the testing server drones and fighters imo are too easy to kill. Effectively nullifying many drone ships... Even if drones dont get a straight up full hp bonus, but rather through skills that would be nice as well. That way you still need to specialize in drones to make them last longer..

Faricar
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.10.28 14:06:00 - [59]
 

Fighters 50%
Drone 25%

There we go settled...

Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Posted - 2006.10.28 16:31:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Tasty Burger
Why, so you can use the stupidly overpowered 'return to bay' and then redeploy with full HP? While the enemy spent valuable ammo/cap/time trying to kill your drones and you just waste all that time. Rolling Eyes


While Scoop and Redeploy is rather poor form (and if it weren't for the legitimate need to switch between drone types I would suggest that it's close to being an exploit) I might compare it to sitting on a station, taking a few potshots and deagressing in time to dock. The fact that it's possible is one of the peculiarities of drones. As a drone user the loss of a drone is more than awkward - it's a serious problem, especially with the post nerf small dronebays. The fact that they can be scooped and relaunched is a discouragement to shooting them, in the same way as depriving your enemy of another weapon is an incentive.


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