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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2006.10.27 11:42:00 - [211]
 

IMO the harbringer is ok, *exept* that it needs 1 less high and 1 more low.

Myrrdin
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2006.10.27 11:54:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: Sniser
Edited by: Sniser on 27/10/2006 11:02:43

I had the same problem with my Harbringer if i fit heavy pulse i only have enough pg to fit ab and a single MAR t2 or 1 plate 800mm but SAR with AWU4. I cant understand why Tux dont see amarr fits are really hard to do in nearly every ship(no T2) :S


Hmm, managed to get on the test server last night and fitted a harbinger with 7 Heavy Pulse II's, 10MN AB II, Selection of EW, MAR II, 3 HSII's and t2 energized membranes. Had about 150 grid left over after that (to use for the grid increase on turrets demanded by Rigs!).

My AW upgrades is currently at level 4 though.

Spaced Skunk
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.10.27 11:59:00 - [213]
 

Ok the new battlecruisers :) Heres my discussion contribution;

Gallente;
I see no problem with the gallente battlecruisers, Brutix is blaster, Myrmidon is a drone boat.
People are complaining about the lack of drone space in the Myrmidon (waa waaa waaaa I cannot fit 5 heavies and have more heavies for backup) to put it short anyway Very Happy But this ship has more tank than the smaller version (Vexor), and more mid slot versatility like the bigger version (Dominix/Ishtar/Eos), and more high slots for nos and guns and whatever. I really see this as being a bigger Vexor and a smaller Dominix. If you were going to boost it, more powergrid/CPU and maybe 1 or 2 extra turret points.

Caldari;
Drake seems nasty but why the hell does it have more damage and more tank than the ferox? Drake needs to be ballanced I think, basically lose its resistance bonus, replace with missile velocity. Ferox therefore remains the tanker. Ferox/Vulture also needs more turret points at reduced missile points.

Amarr;
Prophecy is still an uber tanker and its damage isnt too poor either. Harbinger is just like the Minmatar Hurricane, the layout is just dam fine, and very PVPy Very Happy Obviously will suffer lack of tank when fitted with a full rack of heavy pulse, which balances it out, looking at the Harbinger, I am going to train t2 medium lasers up too Very Happy

Minmatar;
I dont really like the Cyclone, its very versatile but it just doesnt want to solo PVP , its heavy on cap cos of its active tank, and really does need an extra medium at the expensive of a low.
Hurricane therefore is just a damned fine ship, ROF and damage bonus like Rupture, but with more damage and tank. I just like it, I can see myself happily pvping in this ship for the rest of my time playing EvE tbh :)

Sniser
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.10.27 12:17:00 - [214]
 

Originally by: Aramendel
IMO the harbringer is ok, *exept* that it needs 1 less high and 1 more low.


so you want they take out one turret and less pg for more cpu? nice! obviously you arent amarr if you want they nerf it lol. There is no way the ship dont have an utility high slot since all bc tier2 ships have it. They current dps balance is based on drones

Sniser
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.10.27 12:28:00 - [215]
 

Originally by: Myrrdin
Originally by: Sniser
Edited by: Sniser on 27/10/2006 11:02:43

I had the same problem with my Harbringer if i fit heavy pulse i only have enough pg to fit ab and a single MAR t2 or 1 plate 800mm but SAR with AWU4. I cant understand why Tux dont see amarr fits are really hard to do in nearly every ship(no T2) :S


Hmm, managed to get on the test server last night and fitted a harbinger with 7 Heavy Pulse II's, 10MN AB II, Selection of EW, MAR II, 3 HSII's and t2 energized membranes. Had about 150 grid left over after that (to use for the grid increase on turrets demanded by Rigs!).

My AW upgrades is currently at level 4 though.



and your cap last enough long with only a MAR and no cap booster? Do you know hurricane can fit 1600mm plate + MAR and do nearly same dps than harbringer? So their guns dont use cap and can tank better?

with ab you dont dictate the range. Without cap booster you will be out of cap in nearly no time with no plate on setup its much less armor than others bc

do you know to let your MAR t2 rep as much as a 1600mm plate the fight need last 140seconds to be equal? 1600mm plate gives around 5000HP mar t2 reps 35.5hp/s do maths
If focused medium pulse t2 in a harbringer werent that bad in dps then would be no problem but they arent as good as 220mm fitted in a hurricane

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2006.10.27 12:31:00 - [216]
 

Edited by: Aramendel on 27/10/2006 12:31:23
Originally by: Sniser
so you want they take out one turret and less pg for more cpu? nice! obviously you arent amarr if you want they nerf it lol. There is no way the ship dont have an utility high slot since all bc tier2 ships have it. They current dps balance is based on drones


It cannot use the utility high slot (which is pretty much limited for nos anyway) due to grid issues in either case. And just because all tier 2 BCs currently have one does not mean all *have* to have one. For the tier 1 BCs all exept the Brutix have one too. Did not stop the Brutix having 7 turrets & 7 highs.

Typically amarr ships have 1 more low than other ships of the same class, this is not the case for the tier 2 BCs. And for the harbringer 1 more low would be far more useful than 1 non-turret high.

Sniser
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.10.27 12:35:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: Aramendel
Edited by: Aramendel on 27/10/2006 12:31:23
Originally by: Sniser
so you want they take out one turret and less pg for more cpu? nice! obviously you arent amarr if you want they nerf it lol. There is no way the ship dont have an utility high slot since all bc tier2 ships have it. They current dps balance is based on drones


It cannot use the utility high slot (which is pretty much limited for nos anyway) due to grid issues in either case. And just because all tier 2 BCs currently have one does not mean all *have* to have one. For the tier 1 BCs all exept the Brutix have one too. Did not stop the Brutix having 7 turrets & 7 highs.

Typically amarr ships have 1 more low than other ships of the same class, this is not the case for the tier 2 BCs. And for the harbringer 1 more low would be far more useful than 1 non-turret high.


if you cant use the utility slot then you are agree with me and there isnt enough powergrid Wink

Iron Savior
Red's Swashbucklers Corp
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2006.10.27 12:41:00 - [218]
 

I hope Cerberus will coast something about 25 mil in Kali, Drake looks MORE MORE better for 30-50 mil.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.10.27 12:41:00 - [219]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 27/10/2006 12:42:15
Originally by: Isyel
Originally by: Mikal Drey
hey hey

Hurricane
[snip]




Please just shut up and leave my Hurricane alone. It's my (and a lot of other people's) dream ship. Just WHAT else do you want?



I said basically the same thing.

First I looked at the Harbinger and said YES! Then i looked at the Hurricane and went BWA?!!?!?!

The design on the Harbinger and Hurricane are great, very similar ships.

There are some problems though, the Harbinger gains 20% armor, and two medium drones[or 4 up'd from light], and 6% better capacitor, in exchange for worse fitting*, 10% velocity, size, and zero cap use.

*Its my understanding that Heavy Pulse Lasers are about equivelent to 425mm autocannons with a 25% damage boost[though i havent examined the actual differences when compared with current or kali ammo yet, however if ammo is similar in damage amount/type, the autocannons have roughly a 12% damage advantage with the 25% damage bonus not including reloading times]

The problem of course is that heavy pulse lasers require 70 more PG to use for each, 78 more PG for the tech II variants. This leaves the Harbinger at a net loss of 316 power grid at max skills[366.4 difference with tech 2 and max skills] and the worse your skills are, the worse the difference gets.

If the Harbinger is going to make use of its larger powergrid, its got to downsize its weapons[focused mediums PG use is 20 less than 425mm autocannon PG use] and further reduce any damage advantage it has over the Hurricane.

And its still slower, heavier, bigger, and sucking down cap when it fires its gun.

Are the 20% HP and two medium drones really compensation against smaller, lighter, faster boat with the same slot layout, able to fit larger guns, able to run an armor tank at least equal to yours, that doesnt burn capacitor when it shoots?

According to Toaster Oven, the damage difference between A T2 fitted Harbinger fitting Heavy Pulses and a T2 fitted Hurricane fitting 220's is about 4% DPS in favor of the Harbinger. But in that situation the Hurricane has 637 more powergrid to play around with than the Harbinger and doesnt used cap. That is an entire 1600mm plate with garnishings[completly negating the armor strength boost]! And the Hurricane has 25 more CPU base with guns that are even easier to fit in that department too.

What are the gun rigs going to do to this picture when the Hurricane has so much extra PG/CPU to play around with. The disparity is ridiculous.


The Harbinger needs one of a number of different things.

7/4/7 slot layout. Give us more low slots to play around with, we dont need the utility slot up top, if we want a nos, we can drop a gun for it, if we want a gang mod, we can drop a gun for it. Finnaly a tough fitting choice that doesnt involve us being out of powergrid or CPU. Combine this with a fitting boost so that he can fit the big guns without being down on his competitors and the cap to run it all and you have a winner.

OR

It needs the 8th turret restored with the CPU/Grid to fit it. The thing looks funny with only 7 turrets anyway, so this is an eye pleasing fix as well.

---------

The Bottom line is that in order for the Harbinger to be even close to the Hurricane it needs 75 more CPU and 300 more powergrid[max skills using t2 gun comparisons] and even then the Harbinger is using capacitor for less damage on the same slots flying slower, as a larger target than the Hurricane.

You know there is something wrong when the "fast gank" BC from the "fast race" is able to out gank, and out tank the "Gank" BC from the "Gank/Tank" race.

These next 367 characters are just here so that I can feel good about my self having used absolutly all the space to tell you, the folks at home, and the devs at work, that the Harbinger needs a boost in order to compete on the same level as at least one other BC, the directly comparble BC in the teir two line up. Thank you for taking the time to read this post and consider the

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.10.27 12:50:00 - [220]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 27/10/2006 13:31:11
Edited by: Goumindong on 27/10/2006 13:03:00
Edited by: Goumindong on 27/10/2006 12:53:24
Addendum:

Please dont turn the Harbinger into a drone boat i like it just the way it is [with 100 more CPU, 500 more PG, and an 8th turret slot and a 20% bigger cap, or 75 more CPU, 300 more PG no utility 8th slot and a 7th low slot]

2nd Addendum:

The Hurricane can also fit 3 missiles, or rather, 1 missile launcher extra in the high slot[since who would waste a double damage bonus to projectiles on a heavy assault launcher] and can stick either a heavy assault launcher or whatever in there, to increase damage even more over the Harbinger.

3rd Addendum:

It looks like the best thing about the Harbinger is that because Battlecruisers is a shared skill, and Gunnery is a fairly shared discipline, if you trained for the Harbinger, you can hop into a Hurricane with less than a week of training time, and be at the cusp of t2 autocannons inside a month.

4th Addendum:

"Powergrid differences" are calculated as the difference between the guns used by the Harbinger and the guns used by the Hurricane, and then from that value, subtracting the difference between the two powergrids of each ship when at max skill ranks[125 PG]. So after fitting the largest T2 guns of each type on each ship, the Hurricane would 366.4 more powergrid left than the Harbinger would have left. By the same calculations, he would also have 89 more CPU left as well[by the same manner of measure]

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2006.10.27 12:55:00 - [221]
 

*agrees with Goumindong*

mini-geddon ftw \o/

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.10.27 13:03:00 - [222]
 

Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 27/10/2006 13:04:35
Originally by: Spaced Skunk

I see no problem with the gallente battlecruisers, Brutix is blaster, Myrmidon is a drone boat.
People are complaining about the lack of drone space in the Myrmidon (waa waaa waaaa I cannot fit 5 heavies and have more heavies for backup) to put it short anyway Very Happy But this ship has more tank than the smaller version (Vexor), and more mid slot versatility like the bigger version (Dominix/Ishtar/Eos), and more high slots for nos and guns and whatever. I really see this as being a bigger Vexor and a smaller Dominix.


I don't think you've done the numbers on this one.

Compared to Vexor, yes it has more hit points, but that is balanced by a *much* bigger sig rad (about double). Also, it's a lot slower and more cumbersome. That "bigger" tank isn't that big when everything evens out.

Compared to Dom... well, that's the problem, isn't it. Where the Drake is not all that far behind the Raven, the Dom totally leaves the Myrmidon in the dust. A Dom DPS is probably double (large turrets with damage bonus) and multiple waves of heavy drones.

If you want a smaller drone ship, there is very little reason to fly a Myrmidon over a Vexor.

If you want more DPS and tank, the Dom is miles ahead (and no, the price difference isn't that big, either). 375m3 drone bay, large guns with damage bonus, etc.

Compared to Eos... well, Eos (which *isn't* a primary drone boat) has 300m3 of drone bay. Why does the Gallente "drone battlecruiser" have a third of that?

Compared to Ishtar... here is gets silly. Ishtar can field multiple waves of heavy drones (375m3 bay), has a gun damage bonus, small signature radius, huge tank, etc etc. It's just no contest, not even on the same playing field.

Take a look at the other races. The Drake is pretty close to the Cerberus, in fact all the other tier2's are pretty close to the respective HACs in power. Except the Myrmidon, which is a very slightly tank-boosted slow Vexor.

To balance things out, either the Myrmidon needs a boost (drone bay to 150-200m3 is the easiest solution), or the other tier2 BCs need a nerf. And I don't think anyone wants a nerf.

With the old broken ECM system, the Myrmidon might just have worked as an ECM-drone platform. With that fixed in Kali, it's left just looking sad.

Again:

Vexor (cruiser): 75m3
Myrmidon (battlecruiser): 100m3
Eos (battlecruiser): 300m3
Ishtar (cruiser): 375m3
Dominix (battleship): 375m3

Spot the problem? Very Happy

(Not to mention that the Myrmidon is the only ship in the Gallente "drone boat" range which has no gun damage bonus of any kind and relies only on drones. And it has the second-smallest drone bay. Hmmmm.)

Frools
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2006.10.27 13:19:00 - [223]
 

Edited by: Frools on 27/10/2006 13:20:36
7/4/7 harbinger with 7 turrets and maybe a touch more grid would be hawt
its already decent, like an omen only a lot less gimped Laughing

drone harbinger, no thx Evil or Very Mad
to those people saying we dont need another turret ship, yes we do
we need a GOOD turret ship
t1 and in the cruiser area there isnt a good amarr turret ship
the maller and prophecy do weak damage cos they're tank ship and the omen is horribly gimped by lack of grid and a few other things

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.10.27 13:24:00 - [224]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 27/10/2006 13:25:56
Originally by: Alex Harumichi


Again:

Vexor (cruiser): 75m3
Myrmidon (battlecruiser): 100m3
Eos (battlecruiser): 300m3
Ishtar (cruiser): 375m3
Dominix (battleship): 375m3

Spot the problem? Very Happy



You have incorrectly labeled the Eos as a Battlecruiser and the Ishtar as a Cruiser, when they are in fact, a Command Ship and Heavy Assault Cruiser instead?

What do i win Bob?!

Anyway, I think changing the drone damage/HP bonus to be +15-20% for medium/light drones is a better fix if it needs one.

edit: This would secure it as a medium drone platform, giving it decent drone damage without sacrificing the target versitility of medium drones versus heavy drones[which have issues hitting small things].

I.E. a unique drone boat role.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2006.10.27 13:31:00 - [225]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Edited by: Goumindong on 27/10/2006 13:25:56
Originally by: Alex Harumichi


Again:

Vexor (cruiser): 75m3
Myrmidon (battlecruiser): 100m3
Eos (battlecruiser): 300m3
Ishtar (cruiser): 375m3
Dominix (battleship): 375m3

Spot the problem? Very Happy



You have incorrectly labeled the Eos as a Battlecruiser and the Ishtar as a Cruiser, when they are in fact, a Command Ship and Heavy Assault Cruiser instead?

What do i win Bob?!

Anyway, I think changing the drone damage/HP bonus to be +15-20% for medium/light drones is a better fix if it needs one.

edit: This would secure it as a medium drone platform, giving it decent drone damage without sacrificing the target versitility of medium drones versus heavy drones[which have issues hitting small things].

I.E. a unique drone boat role.



meh

you want a unique drone boat?

*copy-pastes his suggestion*

6/6/6 6 turrets

1000 grid
410

150m3 drone bay

+1 scout/medium drone per level
+5% dmg to med hybrid guns



unique drone ship
Razz

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.10.27 13:34:00 - [226]
 

It definitly needs the 6th turret, if only so it doesnt look funny.

But i think that increasing the drone effectiveness is better than letting people use a lot of drones.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2006.10.27 13:40:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
It definitly needs the 6th turret, if only so it doesnt look funny.

But i think that increasing the drone effectiveness is better than letting people use a lot of drones.


well it was discussed. and disregarding the point of how the heck do you code the "+1 scout/med drone" thingy, it is equal in terms of firepower, but however it has his advantages.

for example in the 5 drones + 20% drone dmg/hp thing, at lvl5 you have theoretically 10 drones, altho in practice it is 5 drones.
in a 10 drone config with no firepower added, you have the same firepower (theoretically), but when you pop a drone, you don't lose 2 drones firepower instead.
same firepower, but more spreaded out.


now the problem is, how it is possible to have a +1 scout/med drone? maybe tying up the bonus to the parameter of the skill that gives more damage to scout/med drones?

Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
Posted - 2006.10.27 13:49:00 - [228]
 

8 pages of a lot of .. comments ..

I won't go into everything, but being a drone user I have to comment on the Myrmi..

First some general things:
- PLEASE do not give it ANY weapon bonus, just drones (and if you really want a tanking bonus like it has now, imho it should have just drone boni, to finally give us a drone ship).
- PLEASE do not lower the dmg bonus. Seriously would be unfair, see all tests.
- I don't care about using 5 heavy drones with bonus, I care about being able to survive multiple fights/minutes. Seriously drones are easy to take out atm (especially heavies) and seeing as the turrets on a myrmi would be comparable to drones on other ships (ie backup).. Having 100 m^3 drone space is laughable. Give drones the ability to kill turrets/launchers for just 1 day and everyone will be able to feel the pain of losing 5-10M in a fight because they are easy to pick off.
- Now if the community still believes having 5 heavy drones + bonus is overpowered, then give the Myrmi 200 M^3 drone space and change the bonus to scout drones only.

Now the rest:
- Either alter the model to just have 5 turret fittings or give it 6 gun fittings because it looks silly with 5 turrets fitted. (That would leave just 2 high slots besides the guns, so less NOS for the noobs [yes I said it] who fear 12km med nos on a drone ship)(Apparently people also forget the PG reqs for med nos/neut and armour tanks).
- ATM all gallente drone ships are really more efficient than the myrmi. I have used my Domi for over 2 years now since it's the only efficient drone ship for my req's. I would only use the myrmi for it's glorious looks atm. Just consider (been said before):
-) Domi can use heavy nos, large guns + bonus, same meds, better tank (+2 low slots will compensate the myrmi bonus plenty, and it has the LAR II iso MAR II), has the drone space and can tank passively better (duh).
-) Ishtar ... enough said
-) Eos ... actually this isn't a drone ship in my opinion since it doesn't have dmg bonus .. Would be (almost) the same as calling an Exequror a gunship since it has more space for ammo, but still it's a command ship, so it will outperform the Myrmi by lots in many fields.
-) Vexor ... dmg bonus for guns, has the drone space for nice sets, and is about 1/10 of the price. I won't claim it's better, just loads more efficient.
-) Ishkur lol, bring it in why don't we :) Let's see, 40 m^3 on full skills, great stuff, cheaper and it's uses make it more efficient by far (for one it will be hit a lot less).

Now don't get me wrong. I have lived with the drone hate for many many years now (/me remembers the good old days of flying 10+ drones on his Domi)so I don't need an UBERWTFPWN drone ship but it would be nice to have at least a realistic extra choice.

Calling people whiners because tests and stats prove them right is silly.
Making dicussions personal is silly.
Who needs to target drones with smartbombs or FoF missiles? The last ones will be standard cargo for missile ships especially short ranged Drakes.

Like I said elsewhere on the forum: 150 m^3 would be ok, 175 m^3 would be perfect and if you feel like you should change the dmg bonus to just scout drones then so be it (even though that will make them on par with the others).

my 2 cents and x paragraphs.

TalanR
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
Posted - 2006.10.27 13:58:00 - [229]
 

Caldari:
The drake is a fine ship. The only thing I would change is the resistance bonus for a missile velocity bonus. This will but it in a better place with the caldari ships

Moa -> Ferox (railguns and resistance)
Caracal -> Drake (missle boat)

Minmatar:
The hurricane could use a base speed bonus of about 10m/s or a bonus for MWD. I would go with base speed because the MWD bonus might overpower the ship

Gallante:
This is a lot of complaining about this ship. I have tried it and I seems alright. A compromise might be a be this:

base dronebay: 75m3

Fitting:
5 high (3 guns)
4 med (-1 slot)
8 low

Bonus:

25m3 of dronespace per level (200m3 max.)
10% drone hp per level
7,5% armor repair per level


this reduces the possible gun dps and compromises it with the drone space bonus.

about the 4 med slots. i think that 5 is going to push it to a ecm/drone boat but I don't think a 5th slot would overpower the ship

Amarr:
Donít know. canít fly the ship so I will leave this to the pilots who can.

TalanR


Sniser
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.10.27 14:28:00 - [230]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
*agrees with Goumindong*

mini-geddon ftw \o/


im agree with you and goumindong :P

Kodiak31415
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2006.10.27 14:35:00 - [231]
 

For people who think that only 100m3 of space on the Myr is fine imagine if the launchers on your drake could be shot off in a volley or two?

The fact of the matter is that if a Myr pilot uses heavies in PVP his/her drones will be gone inside of 30 seconds effectivly taking them out of the fight. If the Myr pilot uses meds they are left with a big fat cruiser (Thorax and vexor are almost as high dps as a med myr user). I think a bigger scout only bonus is the way to go with the Myr. A bigger bay would lead to the use of 5 heavies (overpowered) while the big scout bonus would put the Myr up in the range of other BC's.

Hmmmm, just noticed that gallente are getting the shaft on new ships. A broken drone boat and a BS that replaces one thats already filling the slot fine.

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2006.10.27 14:43:00 - [232]
 

Originally by: Sniser
if you cant use the utility slot then you are agree with me and there isnt enough powergrid Wink


Nope, I agree with you that the utility slot is kinda worthless for it atm.

But IMO it would be better for the harbringer if it would be converted into an low slot instead of having it's powergrid increased to use it.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.10.27 14:43:00 - [233]
 

Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 27/10/2006 14:50:26
Originally by: Kodiak31415
A bigger bay would lead to the use of 5 heavies (overpowered) while the big scout bonus would put the Myr up in the range of other BC's.



Why would 5 heavies make it overpowered? That would give about the DPS of an Ishtar, comparable to the other tier2s. Drake is about the DPS of the Cerberus, etc. Why should Myrmidon vs Ishtar be so ridiculously different? The devs apparently think that tier2 BC and HAC DPS should be in the same ballpark, by looking at the ship designs so far. Even with 5 heavies, Ishtar would win out by miles over the Myrmidon, but I guess you need to get something with that "tech2" stamp :)

(and no, Ishtars do not do "battleship damage", as someone claimed. Unless you think that 3 medium guns do the same amount of damage as 6 large guns on Dominix Surprised. Istars do HAC damage, and are pretty balanced now that ECM is fixed and we won't be seeing broken ECM+drones platforms left and right).

Orrin Danestarr
Minmatar
Merchants Trade Consortium
NxT LeveL
Posted - 2006.10.27 14:48:00 - [234]
 

Indeed, the Hurricane need s a better base speed. Maybe 180 m/s.. maybe a base 200 m/s?

I drool over being able to produce these vessels of much dooooom.

Reto
The Last Resort
Posted - 2006.10.27 14:50:00 - [235]
 

Originally by: Spaced Skunk
Ok the new battlecruisers :) Heres my discussion contribution;

Gallente;
I see no problem with the gallente battlecruisers, Brutix is blaster, Myrmidon is a drone boat.
People are complaining about the lack of drone space in the Myrmidon (waa waaa waaaa I cannot fit 5 heavies and have more heavies for backup) to put it short anyway Very Happy But this ship has more tank than the smaller version (Vexor), and more mid slot versatility like the bigger version (Dominix/Ishtar/Eos), and more high slots for nos and guns and whatever. I really see this as being a bigger Vexor and a smaller Dominix. If you were going to boost it, more powergrid/CPU and maybe 1 or 2 extra turret points.




/agreed
1 more turret slot, since 6 mounts on the model look silly with only 5 fitable turrets. and the fact u dont get any hybrid bonus makes a 6th turret not a too big issue dps wise.

dronespace: imo the myrm should be able to carry at least 2 flights of med drones to counter its main prey, cruisers.
and have additionaly 25-75 drone space for either logistic or scout drones or whatever u want to fit.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2006.10.27 15:08:00 - [236]
 

Originally by: TalanR
Caldari:
Gallante:
This is a lot of complaining about this ship. I have tried it and I seems alright. A compromise might be a be this:

base dronebay: 75m3

Fitting:
5 high (3 guns)
4 med (-1 slot)
8 low

Bonus:

25m3 of dronespace per level (200m3 max.)
10% drone hp per level
7,5% armor repair per level


this reduces the possible gun dps and compromises it with the drone space bonus.

about the 4 med slots. i think that 5 is going to push it to a ecm/drone boat but I don't think a 5th slot would overpower the ship

TalanR

How about this for the Drake:

3 high (2 missile)

Change shield resistance bonus to 1 additional missile high slot per level.


Blind Man
Caldari
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2006.10.27 15:19:00 - [237]
 

Originally by: Frools
Edited by: Frools on 27/10/2006 13:20:36
7/4/7 harbinger with 7 turrets and maybe a touch more grid would be hawt


what about the absolution? Rolling EyesRolling EyesRolling Eyes

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.10.27 15:20:00 - [238]
 

Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 27/10/2006 15:30:49
Originally by: Razin

How about this for the Drake:

3 high (2 missile)

Change shield resistance bonus to 1 additional missile high slot per level.



Sounds fair. Very Happy

Honestly, if people think it's ok for the Myrmidon being a slightly more tanked Vexor (with same DPS), then the only thing to do is to change the Drake into a slightly more tanked Caracal.

So let's see, that means 5 launcher slots. You can keep the 8 highs, but you'll have to use 3 of them for nosfes or smartbombs.

Or if you want to compare with Myrmidon and 4 heavies: your Drake has 7 launchers, but every time your shields drop below 50% one of your launchers blows up (this is to balance the ease of destroying those Myrmidon drones, leaving it helpless with no spares).

Not happy with that? Right. Neither are we with the Myrmidon.

Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2006.10.27 15:33:00 - [239]
 

I keep seeing people complaining about how the Myr being able to field 5 heavies will "give it the dps of a battleship". Bullocks!

The DPS of a Domi with only 5 tech2 heavies is actually quite low. The only reason this works is because of the nos/ecm combo, which isn't going to work nearly as well on the Myrmidon due to the lack of heavy nos and ecm nerf.

A full-gank Brutix can do 980dps. A dual-rep tank Brutix does over 500dps. Gallente are close range. But it looks to me like the Myrmidon will get pwned at all ranges. Hell, I'd take a Vexor up against a Myrmidon. All you gotta do is pop it's drones and tank the light guns because it won't be able to fit any mediums if it takes advantage of it's tank bonus.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.10.27 15:51:00 - [240]
 

Originally by: Kruel
I keep seeing people complaining about how the Myr being able to field 5 heavies will "give it the dps of a battleship". Bullocks!

The DPS of a Domi with only 5 tech2 heavies is actually quite low. The only reason this works is because of the nos/ecm combo, which isn't going to work nearly as well on the Myrmidon due to the lack of heavy nos and ecm nerf.



Exactly. With the ECM+nosfe+drones platform now pretty much dead (good thing too), "drone boats" aren't all that powerful.

With increased Myrmidon drone bay:

Myrmidon damage: 5 x heavy drone + 5 medium guns (no damage bonus)
Dominix damage: 5 x heavy drone + 6 large guns with +5%/lvl damage bonus

Someone who claims those are even remotely comparable has some education to do about gun damage.

With 5 heavy drones, a Myrmidon would do general HAC damage. Like the Drake and others do now.

With the small bay, a Myrmidon can choose to do either sub-HAC damage that will be gone fast leaving the ship helpless, or do t1 cruiser damage. Whee.


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