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Kaathar Rielspar
Minmatar
Universal Exports
Cult of War
Posted - 2006.10.26 22:53:00 - [181]
 

Edited by: Kaathar Rielspar on 26/10/2006 23:01:08
Edited by: Kaathar Rielspar on 26/10/2006 22:53:37
hmmm, interesting discussions on the new ships, especially the myrmidon.

i like the most recent suggestions and if it is deemed that a change to the ship bonuses is in order then i'd go with the rep bonus and +1 scout/medium controlled per level

would mean that it can field more drone dps than the vexor (by 2.5 drones at an extra 40mil+ cost, seems fairly balanced) and pilots have the option of 2 waves of 10 lights or a single cloud of mediums.

this bonus would also make the ship unique if we discount the guardian vexor (theres the precedent right there) which can only be a good thing.

my $0.02

Azerrad InExile
Posted - 2006.10.26 22:56:00 - [182]
 

Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar
this bonus would also make the ship unique if we discount the guardian vexor (theres the precadent right there) which can only be a good thing.


Its precedent for overlooking bonuses on ships which never get used due to their rarity... not really precedent for adding a new +1 drone control/lvl, although I suppose you could look to carriers for precedent on that.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2006.10.26 22:57:00 - [183]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 26/10/2006 23:22:45
Originally by: Hllaxiu
In short: 10 drones isn't going to happen so lets not waste our time on suggesting it.


one can only try and ask to see if it's possible or not.

oh and btw, I realy think it is possible, since there is a skill that applies only to medium/scout drones.
maybe tying up the control bonus to that parameter.

Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Basically would be garunteed death to smaller ships.


you can do that already with the drake.

7 T2 assault launchers + precision lights = omfgpwned frigs and the like




anyways at least it IS a suggestion, and I am/was being serious about it.

albert camus
Corp 1 Allstars
Posted - 2006.10.26 23:13:00 - [184]
 

hmm... all this therorectical crap, ive been playing with all the tier 2 bc's and there pretty well ballanced. All this raw dps stuff is just silly, in actual combat there all nice ships :)

Azerrad InExile
Posted - 2006.10.26 23:13:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
you can do that already with the drake.

7 T2 assault launchers + precision lights = omfgpwned frigs and the like

anyways at least it IS a suggestion, and I am/was being serious about it.


I have no doubt that you were being serious, I just personally think it would have to many issues (btw I am completing drone interfacing 5 in about 10 days so I have nothing against drones).

Regarding the drake I don't think 7x precision lights would do anywhere near the damage of 10x hammerheads, but 7x precision lights is going to make for an insane fleet support setup. I'm probably the most worried about the drake being unbalanced in all of this, but the hurricane isn't far behind. Whatever the ammar one is called seems ok and the gallente one seems a bit weak in comparision to the caldari and minmatar, but about on par with the amarr one.

However, I'm not happy about any of them having tanking bonuses... I'd like to see the drake's bonus changed to 5% rof and 10% velocity and the gallente one changed to 10% drone and 5% hybrid.

Kalhystia
Posted - 2006.10.26 23:15:00 - [186]
 

Edited by: Kalhystia on 26/10/2006 23:15:36
I agree that Myrmidon needs bigger dronebay: 100m3 for a drone BC is just plain joke.

The harbinger is pure sex, but could you put the lower gun in the proper place please? It just ruins the whole beauty of the ship Embarassed

Quilan Ziller
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.10.27 00:31:00 - [187]
 

To all Caldari who are whining about the Myrmidon.
You are... incorrect.
It is waay underpowered as it is, and only an increase in drone bay
space will make it almost balanced against other BCs, especially the
missile boats like Ferox.
How so?
With maximum gunnery and drone skills, Modal Neutrons/AM, 3 damage mods,
and Ogre IIs damage against an unhardened Ferox is 360 DPS for 4 heavy drones,
430 for 5 heavy drones. Check it with QuickFit if you don't believe me.
Now, the said Ferox has missiles (which ALWAYS hit), and it can fit a webber.
The drones will go poof in the first few seconds of the fight.
Those are heavy drones, very easy to kill, and very expensive.
After that, the Myrmidon is toast.
I don't even want to mention the fact that the DPS figures, even if we don't
talk about drones getting killed, are nothing spectacular for a triple-MFS
suicide fit. And that a Brutix does more damage than that.
This ship needs more drone bay space, period.
Otherwise, it is only good for level 3 mission running.
And stop mentioning the medium drones... Vexor can do that perfectly already.
And if a ship 10 times as expensive as a Vexor does the same damage, something
is terribly wrong.
After all, Drake does not do the same damage as a Moa, and Brutix does more damage
than a Thorax. For the price, Myr should be a mini-Domi, not an overpriced Vexor.
Otherwise, it will only be flown by noobs, and will never see much PvP (except as
being a pirate magnet).
And even 5 heavy drones is NOT overpowered against a Caldari ship with missiles.Confused

Nebuli
Caldari
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.27 01:19:00 - [188]
 

As I said in another post, Drake is comparible to the cerb, in fact all the tier 2 BC are comparible to the HAC they most resemble in each race, thats all except the Myr, compare it to a Ishtar, all I can say is Laughing

Apollyonn
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2006.10.27 01:28:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Blind Man

considering BC level 5:

Caldari
ArrowFerox and Drake, they both get a shield res bonus (I thought the tier 2's were more 'damage dealers'?)


Iíd honestly prefer this, you need a good balance between DPS and staying power.



Originally by: Blind Man

ArrowThe Drake also gets another mid and high over the Ferox, making it a better tank anyway.



That is very true and it seems to me like it is with the intent of it actually having more of an EWAR capability.

Originally by: Blind Man


ArrowDrake also gets 7 launchers and a ROF bonus, compared to 5 rails and a optimal bonus on the Ferox. Maybe change the Ferox to have less missiles and 7 guns? the Vulture would also need this change.



I donít really think that this would be a good idea imho. The problem here then becomes that all these people could potentially have trouble because of the following reasons:
a) donít want to fly a drake and already fly a ferox with missiles
b) prefer missiles and are already trained for command modules
c) those who primarily use the ferox and canít afford the drake as soon as they release it and they change the feroxís fitting capabilites

Originally by: Blind Man


ArrowI also thing the Drake just does too much damage compared to the Nighthawk. If the Nighthawk uses anything but kinetic missiles, the drake will out damage it. There needs to be a much bigger gap between T1 and T2 if you look at the amount of skills and ISK required for a command ship.




The damage difference seems fine to me, but you have to remember the purpose of those ships (Nighthawk, Vulture, and even the Ferox) is to run the Command Links. Theese three ships all have specialized purposes that makes them important. You canít just expect every ship to be equal, some will serve a specific purpose.

I donít know enough and havenít looked at the others enough to be able to make any kind of educated or intelligent assessment of them other than to remind everyone that the command ships are meant to serve a specific purpose regardless of damage output.


ALL I KNOW FOR SURE, I WANT THIS SHIP NOW!Laughing

Mak'shar Karrde
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.10.27 04:47:00 - [190]
 

Edited by: Mak''shar Karrde on 27/10/2006 04:47:28
I (and most Minmatar!) am happy with the Hurricane as is.

Please don't change it.

Thank you.

Nebuli
Caldari
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.27 05:13:00 - [191]
 

The only logical reason I can see for the Myrs pathetic drone bay is CCP not wishing it to use heavy drones.

Now that being said, WHY shouldnt it be able to use 5 heavys? doing the math this will only put it on par with the damage potential of the other tier 2 BCs, so whats the problem?

So lets say it can now field 5 heavys, those 5 heavys are pretty easy to kill, especialy with the fights being made longer now, so it realy needs to be able to replace lost drones easily right? surely this is only fair as we cant exactly shoot the guns/launchers off the other ships.

So now we have worked out that 5 heavys is in fact quite fair, and it realy needs to be able to have multiple waves of drones so it doesnt become completely useless after a few have been shot, also if it warps out it instantly loses all its damage.

So, why cant it have a Ishtar sized drone bay? why would this be so bad? why cant it have 5 heavys, 5 meds and 5 lights in its bay?

Realy not understanding why some people are so anti big drone bay for what is a dedicated drone ship.

s said above all the other BCs are comparible to there HAC brothers, Cerb vs Drake, according to most numbers etc the Drake is on par if not BETTER than the Cerb, so why cant the Myr be more like a Ishtar than the Vexor its more currently like atm?

Logan Xerxes
Xerxes Security
Posted - 2006.10.27 05:21:00 - [192]
 

Edited by: Logan Xerxes on 27/10/2006 05:32:23
nvm

Quilan Ziller
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.10.27 05:32:00 - [193]
 

Originally by: Nebuli
The only logical reason I can see for the Myrs pathetic drone bay is CCP not wishing it to use heavy drones.

Now that being said, WHY shouldnt it be able to use 5 heavys? doing the math this will only put it on par with the damage potential of the other tier 2 BCs, so whats the problem?

So lets say it can now field 5 heavys, those 5 heavys are pretty easy to kill, especialy with the fights being made longer now, so it realy needs to be able to replace lost drones easily right? surely this is only fair as we cant exactly shoot the guns/launchers off the other ships.

So now we have worked out that 5 heavys is in fact quite fair, and it realy needs to be able to have multiple waves of drones so it doesnt become completely useless after a few have been shot, also if it warps out it instantly loses all its damage.

So, why cant it have a Ishtar sized drone bay? why would this be so bad? why cant it have 5 heavys, 5 meds and 5 lights in its bay?

Realy not understanding why some people are so anti big drone bay for what is a dedicated drone ship.

s said above all the other BCs are comparible to there HAC brothers, Cerb vs Drake, according to most numbers etc the Drake is on par if not BETTER than the Cerb, so why cant the Myr be more like a Ishtar than the Vexor its more currently like atm?


Well said.
And, coming from a Caldari character, sounds really convincing!
Please, increase the Myr's drone bay!

Heelay Ashrum
Caldari
Crimson Logistical
Posted - 2006.10.27 06:55:00 - [194]
 

Edited by: Heelay Ashrum on 27/10/2006 06:55:23
Any dev comment on myr problem?
Just a " we know there is a problem with myrmidon" should be good.

I know those ships are just in testing, so be aware for a problem it's already a good step. :)
on the other way if u say "no and again no to bigger drone bay", we know that we must suggest something else ( brutix like gunboat? Sad )

Illuminaty
Posted - 2006.10.27 06:57:00 - [195]
 

Here is something to think about, pure suicide gank DPS.

If you bump the drone bay to 125m3

Myr:
5x Ogre IIs = 466 DPS
5x Neutrons IIs w/ 3x stabs = 427 DPS

Total = 893 dps

Brutix:
5x Hammerhead IIs = 155 DPS
7x Neutron IIs /w 3x stabs = 748 DPS

Total = 903 dps

A less suicidal drone fitting would be 2x Ogres, 5x Hammerheads, 5x Hobgoblins.

Initial damage with 2x Ogres and 3x Hammerheads would be 326 dps.

If it fits 5x Ions with 1x Mag stab, the dps is on the guns would be 298.

Combined DPS would be 624 (or 569 without the mag stab).

Brutix dps with Ion/electron mix and dual repper tank is 560 dps.


At this point, I'm just -not- seeing the reason for not giving it at least a 125m3 drone bay. Especially since its dps would drop a lot once the two ogres get picked out.

Flabida jaba
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.27 07:13:00 - [196]
 

Edited by: Flabida jaba on 27/10/2006 07:37:57

Originally by: Jaedar Metron


OK ok, no need to flame me, I was under the impression Drake had more dps than other BC's and was overpowered. I guess I let the whines get through to meLaughing... I dont want to swim in guns, I use missiles and missiles only, and am really looking forward to the drake Smile




This is not an attemp to flame this guy..but isnt this true of most, of the
blather that flys around these forum's......

So you read somewhere, someone posted "OMG its teh uber dps pwndage"
so you just took his word forit, with no actuall knowledge and started crying Nerf?????????????????????????????????
even tho you actually had no real idea!
just unhelpful and unconstuctive input!
This kind of garbage is rampant on these forums!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Under optimal conditions for each ship the Drake Might hit 70-80% the raw dps of the hurricain or harbinger..and that is using the new short range heavy assult missles.

Yes it can mount a great tank ..but with its bonus IT must be sheild tanked and it is still the slowest least agile teir II BC.

My fave so far is the Hurricain.......that thing has got BMF spray painted on the side and will become the norm for pirating prolly.
Speed, amour tank, damage++, mid for EW pwnage and scramble, ouch.
I love it.


Myrm.......prolly need's some love TBH even if it had a 125m3 bay it still screams "pwnd my drones and u will pwnd me"...... and whats the deal with the large sig radius???

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2006.10.27 07:37:00 - [197]
 

Same sig radius as Brutix - all the tier-2s have the same sig radius as the tier-1s.

Akiman
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2006.10.27 07:45:00 - [198]
 

Edited by: Akiman on 27/10/2006 07:51:31
give myrmidon 6th turret slot and enough pg to fit it...like u thought so... for drone bay is 150m3 5 heavy 5 light drones

%5 damage to hybrid turrets %10 to drone stuff .

not overpowered not underpowered.

if u think it is change drone damage bonus to dronebay bonus.
if u want a dedicated drone boat change it to drone bay and drone damage bonus.

but like this myrmidon is pointless.


Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
Posted - 2006.10.27 08:04:00 - [199]
 

I'll have to agree with the consensus here. The other BCs look very nice (especially Drake), but the Myrmidon is severely lacking in comparison.

To summarize it's points of imbalance:

1. Insufficient damage
2. Insufficient drone bay
3. Armor repairer bonus

Because the Myrmidon relies on it's drones as it's primary source of damage, it needs that source to be both sufficient and reliable. Item #3 is there simply because it's an inferior bonus to the resistance one.

Solution:

1. +1 turret hardpoint, bonus: +15% damage to light and medium drones, +10% damage to heavy drones
2. Drone bay 200-250 m3
3. Resistance bonus

Quilan Ziller
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.10.27 08:38:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Jin Entres
I'll have to agree with the consensus here. The other BCs look very nice (especially Drake), but the Myrmidon is severely lacking in comparison.

To summarize it's points of imbalance:

1. Insufficient damage
2. Insufficient drone bay
3. Armor repairer bonus

Because the Myrmidon relies on it's drones as it's primary source of damage, it needs that source to be both sufficient and reliable. Item #3 is there simply because it's an inferior bonus to the resistance one.

Solution:

1. +1 turret hardpoint, bonus: +15% damage to light and medium drones, +10% damage to heavy drones
2. Drone bay 200-250 m3
3. Resistance bonus



IMO, this *will* make the Myr a bit overpowered - and will incite more Caldari whining.
I think that there is no reason to add turret hardpoints to it - not enough grid for them.
Resistance bonus is more suitable for an Amarr ship rather then for a Gallente one.
But the drone bay *needs* to be fixed.
I think it should be 150 to 200 m3, combined with the current 10% drone bonus.
Even a 125 m3 bay will be an improvement... Though a marginal one.

fade Thor
Posted - 2006.10.27 09:16:00 - [201]
 

the myr looks underpowered, but giving it much more than a 100m3 dronebay will make it overpowered, most bs's hav dronebays 125m3 or less, the drone carrying cruisers get 75m3. id say keep the 100m3 dronebay but make the bonuses 10%dronedamage and hp, and 5m3 to dronebay per level. then change the slot layout to 5/6/6 to favor tanking and ewar over turret damage.

Captain Raynor
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.27 09:19:00 - [202]
 

Well I really don't understand all the crying over the Drake..

For one, don't compare it to the Ferox which is quite possibly one of the worst designed ships in the game if you ask me. 5 Turrets? Please, it should have 6, maybe 7.. 5 launcher slots? Why.. total schizo layout, I am guessing CCP added the launcher slots so it could be a dual purpose ship and appease to people who go caldari->missiles and wanted to be able to use it.. with the Drake this is no longer needed, make the Ferox a more capable railboat, get rid of those launcher slots add more turrets.

The Drake is obviously a great ship, I don't see why people are complaining too much about 7x heavy assault launchers on it, the range is actually pretty bad and the Drake is hardly a speed demon, in fact it's pretty damn slow in general, ~400m/s with a 10mn afterburner II?

I don't think a missile velocity bonus would be good for the Drake, it would just make hvy assault missiles more powerful on it, extending the range a good amount, the Drake being slow and hvy assault missiles being slow kinda balances it out.

Cerberus with heavy assault launchers is probably going to be scary though.. lots of range there (double range bonus).

Kapitanleutnant Mei
Posted - 2006.10.27 09:27:00 - [203]
 

you don't listen do you? you all keep whining on for you uber boat while tactly ignoring every point made against it. rather than attempt to use the ship with a modicum of skill you insist on attempting to make it into an ishtar/HAC comparisons make me laugh,there is no reason why it should be better or worse than the HAC, it should be DIFFERENT. which it is. The brutix DPS comparison is also ridiculous, the brutix is you high DPS ship, comparable to the drake+hurricane+harbringer. There is absolutly no reason why the mrymydon should approach the DPS of the highest damage non-BS in the game and still be able to fit 3 NOS (a key part of this ship which many people don't seem to get). Again, because you ignore it -these ships have been specifically designed with rigs in mind, your drones will increase their effectivness dramatically, just as the drake has a high cpu to fit the launcher upgrades. Having said that I don't think an upgrade to 150m3 is neccesarily over powered for the loss of a high slot/turret

Zarch AlDain
GK inc.
Posted - 2006.10.27 09:51:00 - [204]
 

Will all the flamers and trolls please shut the **** up and let the people having constructive conversations get on with it.

Several people say they have tested the myrmidon and that they found it weak. Having looked at the stats (and having a gallente alt who flies vexors) I agree with them.

It's not really a substantial upgrade from the vexor at all.


Everyone seems happy with the stats on the Amarr and Minmatar ships, they are worried that the Caldari may be too strong and the Gallente too weak.

There was a constructive discussion of whether that was true or not, by how much it was too weak/strong and what could be done to fix it going on. That in case you missed it is why the Devs made this thread. They _wanted_ balance feedback.


Now I was looking at how much stronger the Drake is than the Ferox and thinking that the Drake seems too strong, but there is the very good point made that the Ferox is a very weak battlecruiser - so maybe the Drake is fine and the Ferox needs some work. It would certainly make sense now we have a missile boat available to drop its missile hardpoints and increase the turret ones.

For the Gallente one - I've seen several good suggestions, but I don't like the idea of increasing the number of drones controlled at once simply because CCP reduced the number of drones in the first place to reduce lag. Nothing smaller than carriers really should be able to field swarms of drones.

Zarch AlDain
GK inc.
Posted - 2006.10.27 10:03:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Karen Dark

A MWD on a misile ship? You apparently can't fly one. Drop resistances for a MWD.. lol, anyone who ACTUALLY fly caldari see any problem ?


First yes i fly Caldari and almost nothing else. Second why not put a MWD on a missile ship? So a MWD gives you a big sig it doesnt matter what weapons you are useing. The heavy assault missiles have fight time of 2 seconds base. Heck all someone has to do is orbit you at 10-11ks and wear you down cause you wont catch them and you wont be able to run cuz they will have scramed you to death.

Once agin this was an IDEA nothing more.Thanks for being a asshat and contributing nothing useful to this thread.


Karen, if you're refering to standard misiles I believe the base is approx. 35km of range, and in a smaller ship that you usually have standards fitted, range isn't so much of a problem. As for the BC class, it uses exclusively Heavy Misiles, which with skills and all are good to at least 60+ km not to mention up to 70-80km. So I really think this idea on your end is a bad one, and it will not have any implications in the game. It certainly has very limited application on a caldari ship anyway.

MWD is used primarily on a short ranged high damage ships to get quickly to target. Caldari doesn't have 1 ship that is good at that, especially not their misile based BC!

5% resistance is a much more viable bonus and one that can be of use!


In your rush to troll and flame you missed a very important fact. Heavy Assault Missiles are very short range, is the missile equivelant of a blaster boat.

Having said that Caldari are not really about fast maneouverable ships so I don't like the suggestion - that does not excuse your response though. Stop making all Caldari look like rude and arrogant idiots and start listening and participating instead of flaming and obstructing.


Toaster Oven
Posted - 2006.10.27 10:31:00 - [206]
 

Edited by: Toaster Oven on 27/10/2006 10:33:28
Proposal: Harbinger

Harbinger is not as ill recieved as is Abbadon, but still it's not up to par with it's peers. I propose that you redesign it as a mixed laser-drone platform. Not as drone oriented as it's Gallente counterpart, Harbinger will require usage of lasers to compete with it's peers (ie Nos+Drone combo not feasible). Here it is, plain and simple:


Harbinger
6-5-7
75m3 drone bay
6 turret hardpoints

Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use per skill level
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level

NOS + drone combo is not feasible. On On the Harbinger it would be simply outclassed by Myrmidion running same setup. Focus is on combining damage with some versatility, something Amarr lacks atm. We don't need another turret ship. We don't need another turret ship.



And as to why Harbinger is not up to par. Compare with Hurricane using some viable setups (using Kali ammo stats)

Harbinger 7x Heavy Pulse II w/ Conflag + 1x Heat Sink II + 5x Valkyrie II = 601.2 DPS
Hurricane 7x 220mm II w/ Hail + 1x Gyrostab II + 1x Hammerhead II + 4x Hobgoblin II = 579.8 DPS

So what does the Harbinger sacrifice for that paltry dmg advantage? Hurricane can fit MAR II + 1600mm Tungsten + 10mn MWD II + Med Nos II. Harbinger only has room for MAR II and 10MN AB II. No room for plate or med NOS. So Hurricane tanks better, goes faster, much more cap, much less vulnerable to tracking disruptors, and has smaller sig radius. Tbh why would you choose to fly Harbinger?


And what if Harbinger dropped down to Focused Medium Pulse II?
Harbinger 7x Focused Medium Pulse II w/ Conflag + 1x Heat Sink II + 5x Valkyrie II = 536.8 DPS

Now it can fit a 1600mm plate, but it does less DPS than Hurricane. Whether you choose to fit MWD or AB, it still can't fill it's last high slot with a Med NOS. And it still has less cap available compared to Hurricane. Simply outclassed.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.10.27 10:33:00 - [207]
 

Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 27/10/2006 12:43:17
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 27/10/2006 11:41:28
Originally by: fade Thor
the myr looks underpowered, but giving it much more than a 100m3 dronebay will make it overpowered, most bs's hav dronebays 125m3 or less, the drone carrying cruisers get 75m3.


Actually, giving it more than 100m3 dronebay will in no way make it overpowered, it will just put it on the same line as the other tier2 bcs.

Consider that (unlike the Vexor and Dom) the Myrmidon gets no damage bonus to anything other than the drones. It needs 5 x heavy drones to compete with the other new battlecruisers, especially considering how easy the drones are to kill with Kali longer combat times.

As is, with medium drones the Myrmidon has equal DPS to the Vexor, making it useless; why fly an expensive BC when you get the same damage from a cheap t1 cruiser? With heavies it is only slightly better than a Vexor, and if even one of those drones is killed it's game over -- the ship has no room for spares.

Maybe the devs thought the ship should use mediums (that would explain the drone bay, 100m3 is nice for two waves of mediums). Problem is, medium drones are totally inadaquate for BCs as the primary damage source.

Vexor: 75m3
Myrmidon: 100m3
Eos: 300m3 (with Command V)
Ishtar: 375m3 (with HAC V)
Dominix: 375m3

See the problem? The Myrmidon is pretty close to Vexor-level, when it should be closer to Eos/Ishtar/Dom. All the other tier2 BCs are fairly close to their HAC counterparts in power, the Myrmidon is so far behind the Ishtar as a drone boat is isn't even funny. For example, the Ishtar gets multiple waves of heavy drones *and* turret damage bonus.

In light of the above, how on earth would having 5 heavy drones (with room for a few spares) and no turret damage bonus make the Myrmidon overpowered?

Toaster Oven
Posted - 2006.10.27 10:35:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: Alex Harumichi
In light of the above, how on earth would having 5 heavy drones (with room for a few spares) and no turret damage bonus make the Myrmidon overpowered?



Agree completely. Myrmidon should have at least 150m3 drone bay.

gfldex
Posted - 2006.10.27 10:55:00 - [209]
 

Some ppl what to see a damage bonus for the Myrmidon. Did you ever tryed to fit it? With a dual rep fitting it cant get a injector (must have with the long fights), 3 med NOS and 5 electrons on. It simply dont got the grid. Even with diminishings it's to low on CPU to fit anything usefull in the med slots.

That leads to another odd problem. We have some BC that can go full tank with tec 2 gear for both tank and guns (there is no need for tec 2 scrams and the like and you would not be able to go tec 2 here anyway because of CPU issues). Whereby others can't. In some cases (harbinger) they are even to low on CPU to go full gank.

So my question is now: Is there any real reason why some BC are able to fit tec 2 and others dont?

Sniser
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.10.27 11:02:00 - [210]
 

Edited by: Sniser on 27/10/2006 11:02:43
Originally by: Toaster Oven
Edited by: Toaster Oven on 27/10/2006 10:33:28
And as to why Harbinger is not up to par. Compare with Hurricane using some viable setups (using Kali ammo stats)

Harbinger 7x Heavy Pulse II w/ Conflag + 1x Heat Sink II + 5x Valkyrie II = 601.2 DPS
Hurricane 7x 220mm II w/ Hail + 1x Gyrostab II + 1x Hammerhead II + 4x Hobgoblin II = 579.8 DPS

So what does the Harbinger sacrifice for that paltry dmg advantage? Hurricane can fit MAR II + 1600mm Tungsten + 10mn MWD II + Med Nos II. Harbinger only has room for MAR II and 10MN AB II. No room for plate or med NOS. So Hurricane tanks better, goes faster, much more cap, much less vulnerable to tracking disruptors, and has smaller sig radius. Tbh why would you choose to fly Harbinger?


And what if Harbinger dropped down to Focused Medium Pulse II?
Harbinger 7x Focused Medium Pulse II w/ Conflag + 1x Heat Sink II + 5x Valkyrie II = 536.8 DPS

Now it can fit a 1600mm plate, but it does less DPS than Hurricane. Whether you choose to fit MWD or AB, it still can't fill it's last high slot with a Med NOS. And it still has less cap available compared to Hurricane. Simply outclassed.


I had the same problem with my Harbringer if i fit heavy pulse i only have enough pg to fit ab and a single MAR t2 or 1 plate 800mm but SAR with AWU4. I cant understand why Tux dont see amarr fits are really hard to do in nearly every ship(no T2) :S


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