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Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.11.16 19:24:00 - [841]
 

Originally by: Doweena
What about the fact that even though the Drake has an additional launcher it has less grid than the Ferox?


It ought to, the Ferox is a rail platform and the drake a missile boat. Rails use more PG than launchers.

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2006.11.16 19:34:00 - [842]
 

Originally by: Doweena
What about the fact that even though the Drake has an additional launcher it has less grid than the Ferox?

The Ferox is a gunboat.

Justin Cody
Caldari
T.A.L.O.N. Company
B4D W01F
Posted - 2006.11.16 19:52:00 - [843]
 

great..I thought I was going to like the drake, but now I'm not even going to touch it. Blech!! at least give it the 7th launcher slot back...that would help.


Nonoffensive
Sniggerdly
Posted - 2006.11.16 20:08:00 - [844]
 

My 2 cents for what its worth:

Undo these last changes, Revise the Shield Recharge on all BCs:
Currently Battlecruisers have about 3x the raw shield HP with the recharge rate of a cruiser. This is a perfect opportunity to put the recharge in line with the ships class and should go a long way towards addressing the Drake's huge tank.

Don't nerf, boost:
Bring up the Myr and Harbringer as necessary to compete with the other BCs. If everything is still over the top, address balance from this point. I am still waiting for the Myr to recieve the bonus it gets from losing a fitting slot Razz

I would hope that everyone could agree on these issues.

La Pounania
Minmatar
Majestic Knights
Posted - 2006.11.16 20:27:00 - [845]
 

nerfed to hell and back he,
at first when i saw the new bc i was like: cool, something new to fly, i must admit the drake was overpowered, but what? a kin bonus? and no rof, the launcher ok atleast it still does damage but without the rof its just asgood as the caracal or the ferox fitted with launchers.
i am fully bc spec and fly all races but the "new" ships just don't feel new, they feel like a new skin on the screen nothing special now they got smashed.

this is just my 2p

Doweena
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
Here Be Dragons
Posted - 2006.11.16 20:50:00 - [846]
 

Edited by: Doweena on 16/11/2006 20:50:46
To be honest, after the changes this does kind of feel like a more expensive Ferox. The extra mid slot is very nice, and the damage bonus to kinetic is nice, but as a person who is primarily a mission runner, this hurts me on any mission where I am using non Kinetic missiles.

To sum up, if you think that the Drake was overpowered, drop one launcher, but leave the ROF bonus as that helps all missiles, not just the one kind.

And where is my Picture? I have been playing to 3 months!!!ugh

Mush Room
Svea Rike
Tre Kroner
Posted - 2006.11.16 20:52:00 - [847]
 

The balancing is all backwards, lowering dps of BCs that direly need it only serves to make them useless in PvP where you go down fast anyway when all guns are on you. And don't tell me the Drake can use ecm because it needs every midslot it has for tank+blasterfittings(mwd, scram, web) just to be competetive. The right course of action would be to improve the ships that direly need it (Myrmidon!) instead of nerfing those that need not be nerfed.

Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2006.11.16 20:54:00 - [848]
 

Quote:

Hahahahaha... hahaha. Excuse me, I know this a personal question but... you're on drugs, right?



Not at the moment, no.

Quote:

You obv. haven't tried fitting anything but launchers in the damn thing. Please do. You'll find once you're done with the launchers you'll need help just to fit an afterburner and a shield booster. That's why every setup for this ship that was thrown around before had NOTHING in the spare high, and will keep having nothing now.



Well, see that's the entire issue at hand. You want your six missile slots be as useful as someone else's 8 turret slots. Then on the side us poor Gallente pilots are being told to fit 2x RCU II in our Hyperion just to fit the guns and that we can't have a decent dronebay on the Myrm.

Quote:

As for the damage, it was already the lowest-damaging BC, now it falls into line with every BC since they were 1st released that does not outdamage its type-equivalent HAC.



Lol. Lowest damage? Can I have some of that stuff you're smoking?

Quote:

Which is to say, its a waste of database entries, JUST LIKE THE FEROX.



And the Deimos and the Hyperion and the Abbadon and the Myrmidon and the...

2SecondsTilMidnight
Posted - 2006.11.16 21:05:00 - [849]
 

Edited by: 2SecondsTilMidnight on 16/11/2006 21:15:40
Drake had the lowest damage potential of the t2 BCs already - THERE WERE MANY MANY GRAPHS THAT VERIFIED THIS. Why can't caldari just have a battlecruiser. Caldari is the only race without a battlecruiser or command ship. THE DRAKE WASN'T TERRIBLY OVERPOWERED BEFORE - I'm serious here. Lower damage and a good tank? Wait, caldari battlecruisers have to complete crap so we can have them be on par with other ships. You guys are worse than square enix at balancing crap, if you don't know what I mean then pick up FFXI and you'll see what I mean.

Edited my language, was a bit upset.

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2006.11.16 21:06:00 - [850]
 

Edited by: keepiru on 16/11/2006 21:08:51
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Quote:
You obv. haven't tried fitting anything but launchers in the damn thing. Please do. You'll find once you're done with the launchers you'll need help just to fit an afterburner and a shield booster. That's why every setup for this ship that was thrown around before had NOTHING in the spare high, and will keep having nothing now.

Well, see that's the entire issue at hand. You want your six missile slots be as useful as someone else's 8 turret slots. Then on the side us poor Gallente pilots are being told to fit 2x RCU II in our Hyperion just to fit the guns and that we can't have a decent dronebay on the Myrm.

Umm, no? Before, 7 launchers did about 75% of 7 guns on the Harb/Hurri. You couldn't realisticaly use the 8th high while the gunships could, but that was ok overall.

Now you have 6 launcher slots which do 50-60% of the 7 guns of the harbinger (which has the grid to fit nos in the 8th, since it has multiple weapon tiers) or 6 gun + 2 launcher on the nerfed hurricane, and you still don't have the grid to use the non-launcher highs.

Can you see the problem?

Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Quote:
As for the damage, it was already the lowest-damaging BC, now it falls into line with every BC since they were 1st released that does not outdamage its type-equivalent HAC.

Lol. Lowest damage? Can I have some of that stuff you're smoking?

Sorry, forgot to be specific: Lowest damage of the tier-2 BCs. Now its outdamages by some tier-1s.

Kinetic damage does not count, no1 in their right mind will use kin missiles, its a non-bonus.

In effect, the drake is now a ferox that does 20% more damage but can't use the spare highs for nos and has a harder time tanking thanks to the low grid.
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Quote:
Which is to say, its a waste of database entries, JUST LIKE THE FEROX.

And the Deimos and the Hyperion and the Abbadon and the Myrmidon and the...

All the more reason to prevent them from releasing more useless ships.

haq aan
Minmatar
Hauling hogs
Posted - 2006.11.16 22:27:00 - [851]
 


Drake was overpowered,..but noone expecting a wrecking dmg from nerfbat. :(
Myrmidon still crap.
And Monster Hurricane (!) ?...yea;
SELEENE wins!...insert coin! 9..8..7..6..

30 page of tests,arguments,suggestions,brain storm,sh.t loads of player effort who paid for years was just a waste of time...I just cant believe this.

haq aan

Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.16 22:29:00 - [852]
 

from the looks of it the harbinger and hurricane are a lot more balanced towards each other now. the harbinger finally has a damage advantage to show for the higher fitting + the capneed of its guns.

now the drake on the other hand seems to have been hit a bit hard. while i wouldnt say a kinetic missile bonus is useless (its certainly a few times better than an em-missiles bonus) it seems a bit much to change the bonus and remove a laucher at the same time.

so maybe 5% rof and 6 launches?

HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
Posted - 2006.11.16 22:30:00 - [853]
 

*copied from the R.I.P. thread. probly shoulda just stuck this here to begin w/

well, looks like some swings of the bat have been made since i last was forum wh**ing.

at first i wanted to spit at my monitor: "WHY!?!? Neutral, gimmie my damn turret and PG back!"

then i tried to look at the whole thing a bit more subjectively....

Fact of the matter is, we all have high hopes for our respective race's new BC's. That being said, i think the way the drake and the hurricane were before was too much of a threat as replacing current battlefield juggernaughts. They were overpowered a bit.

They were damn near battleships in every sense of the word. I wish i was gonna get uber pwnage w/ my hurricane, BUT I was not being biased as that ship was my own race.

However, the drake was right up there w/ her, and since it belonged to another race, it was easy for me to see it was overpowered. If it got the bat, i can understand why minnie's got the bat too.

I dont think we want a tech I ship that can damn near out perform the next class above it, and its tech II cousins. In the end i think this will probly be for the best. (omg i cant believe i just said that)

Lobo Noturno
Posted - 2006.11.16 22:45:00 - [854]
 

Well, I have to go back and test everything again...

I wish Tux had not hit the hurricane the way he did. I still feel it wasn't overpowered, just fitted the part perfectly, like the Rokh. On the other hand, the Drake needed a nerf, although I feel it was too much.(perhaps if they fix the penalty stacking of the t2 ammo...) Tux ended up nerfing the drake DPS, when the real problem was the drake tanking capability... I hate the rof -> kin dmg bonus change, but I think it's in line with other caldari missile ships. But having just 6 missile turrets, compared to the five the ferox can use...(I hoped the ferox would gain one more turret, and the drake could keep it's 7 missile launchers, with a little less pg to gimp the tanking)

Glad to see the Myrmiddon wasn't touched.(sarcastic...)
need to check the extra cap on the harbinger(that thing run dry with an amazing frequency...)

Lobo

2SecondsTilMidnight
Posted - 2006.11.16 22:46:00 - [855]
 

Thing is, caldari is lacking any ship of the battlecruiser size.

Ferox? Its a gunboat that everyone uses as a missleboat because its primary role sucks.

Vulture? pretty good tank compared to other CSs but it's damage is practically non existant.

Nighthawk? The perhaps one of the ****tiest CSs in the game, the recent change in kali makes the nighthawk still the worst but not AS far behind the game.

Was the drake a tad overpowered? Maybe a TAD when using jav HAMs, however when your not using jav HAMs it was fine.
Was the drake a MONSTER? No, the DPS of the drake wasn't as high as the other t2 BCs. It did have good a good tank - not command ship good, but still good.

Perhaps give the launcher back? Keeping it at 6 launcer and giving the rof back could work. Maybe put it back into 7 launchers/rof bonus and give it 4/5 mids with no shield bonus. You need to give it something - In its current state it just sucks, plain and simple.

Aki Yamato
Posted - 2006.11.16 23:17:00 - [856]
 

Today we came here to say last goodbye to our fellow drake. He will join his ancestors in haven of worst BC class ships in eve. Evil or Very Mad

Rest in peace.

HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
Posted - 2006.11.16 23:26:00 - [857]
 

Originally by: 2SecondsTilMidnight

Ferox? Its a gunboat that everyone uses as a missleboat because its primary role sucks.



or maybe half the race doesn't know how to fly its ships cause they have been so pampered w/ fire and forget they are scared to even look at a railgun?

minnie nerf? we will surive, we actually pilot our ships, we adapt both on and off the field (no adapting doesn't mean changing ammo)
caldari nerf? may the streets flow with your tears Laughing

the changes were justified.

Protunia
Gallente
Posted - 2006.11.16 23:29:00 - [858]
 

Edited by: Protunia on 16/11/2006 23:30:12

Too many of you did not want to boost the weakest link so now you get the nerf bat :) dont cry you had your chance to work things out but were too selfish in the end.


Its a good thing that all BC's are closer now.

Zixxa
Posted - 2006.11.16 23:32:00 - [859]
 

Could anybody place damage graph for updated Drake nerf? I like to see how Caldari sucks.

Areconus
Posted - 2006.11.17 00:01:00 - [860]
 

Originally by: Zixxa
Could anybody place damage graph for updated Drake nerf? I like to see how Caldari sucks.


Add the hurricane to your sig plz

Ath Amon
Posted - 2006.11.17 00:02:00 - [861]
 

ok but don't say anymore that i'm a liar noob Razz

drake: old vs new

note, this is the base difference whitout damage mods, more the mods higher the difference

Viictoria
Posted - 2006.11.17 00:53:00 - [862]
 

Originally by: HankMurphy
Originally by: 2SecondsTilMidnight

Ferox? Its a gunboat that everyone uses as a missleboat because its primary role sucks.



or maybe half the race doesn't know how to fly its ships cause they have been so pampered w/ fire and forget they are scared to even look at a railgun?

minnie nerf? we will surive, we actually pilot our ships, we adapt both on and off the field (no adapting doesn't mean changing ammo)
caldari nerf? may the streets flow with your tears Laughing

the changes were justified.




Hahaha this was cute. But seriously, when Caldari missile ships get the ability to actually, you know, move... then you can say they don't deserve to do damage while standing still.

2SecondsTilMidnight
Posted - 2006.11.17 01:10:00 - [863]
 

Originally by: HankMurphy
Originally by: 2SecondsTilMidnight

Ferox? Its a gunboat that everyone uses as a missleboat because its primary role sucks.



or maybe half the race doesn't know how to fly its ships cause they have been so pampered w/ fire and forget they are scared to even look at a railgun?

minnie nerf? we will surive, we actually pilot our ships, we adapt both on and off the field (no adapting doesn't mean changing ammo)
caldari nerf? may the streets flow with your tears Laughing

the changes were justified.



Scared to look at a railgun? I've tried a railgun ferox, theres a reason why not many use it as a gunboat. Take away all but one launcher or all the launchers and add like two turrets then I would change my opinion on the ferox.

Atar
Perpetua Umbra
Brotherhood Of Steel
Posted - 2006.11.17 01:34:00 - [864]
 

Ya know it's not very often I get mad at a game or something done to a game, because it's just that but screwing up the hurricane, yeah that's just pitiful... I really hope people don't let this one die. Evil or Very Mad

Denrace
Amarr
PURE Legion
Pure.
Posted - 2006.11.17 01:39:00 - [865]
 

Originally by: HankMurphy

or maybe half the race doesn't know how to fly its ships cause they have been so pampered w/ fire and forget they are scared to even look at a railgun?




Dude - youre going about it the wrong way.

Reason people fit missiles on a Ferox is that with rails you have PATHETIC DPS.

Less than a bleeding Thorax, mate.

Rails on a brutix with the extra 2 guns plus a damage bonus means its a better sniper. Just fit a tracking computer or two and bingo, same range as a Rox - but like double the DPS.

A Ferox is a HORRID gunship.

Den

Logan Xerxes
Xerxes Security
Posted - 2006.11.17 02:13:00 - [866]
 

Great, now the Caldari have all of their BC's being useless again, just like before!

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE


keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2006.11.17 02:15:00 - [867]
 

Stop teef! :o

LordZer00
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.17 02:45:00 - [868]
 

Can't help but wonder what happened to the concept of having the tier 2 Bc's be 'more gank, less tank' oriented.... Drake is now, like the Ferox, All tank and no gank... great... Another frigate killer, just what we needed.

murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2006.11.17 02:54:00 - [869]
 

Frankly I'm extremely disappointed in the Drake/Hurricane nerf. Why did they have to wreck two perfectly good ships instead of just buffing the other two? All the Myrmidon needed was 250m3 of drone space, and the Harbinger needed 7.5% damage bonus per level, and everything would have been fine.

Protunia
Gallente
Posted - 2006.11.17 03:12:00 - [870]
 

from what i have been reading thats simply not the truth.

those two had damn near the ability to bring down a BS on their own. Sorry I dont think we need BC's that cost less than a BS taking out BS's 1 on 1. As it is 2 on 1 for sure they will take them down.

The other thing was alot of people simply would not give in to letting the drone bay be increased on the myr so the only other choice was to reduce the others to the level of the myr.

Again people did this to them selves not being honest and trying to hard to get the upper hand with the new ships.

thats too bad maybe next time Wink


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