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Ratzap
Gallente
InterGalactic Corp.
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2006.11.09 01:31:00 - [691]
 

I just tried out a drake with 7 t2 heavy assault missiles. Pretty fun (if somewhat low range with Rage ammo) until you see the cap. It goes down, constantly. The effect of 7 x -27% recharge was rather profound. I can see a nice market for Arbalest heavy assaults after Kali comes out 8)

Ratzap

Hanns
The Second Sons
Posted - 2006.11.09 01:57:00 - [692]
 

Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Kodiak31415
What I've come up with so far is:

The harbringer is awseome and ammar needed some love, no problem there.
The hurricane is pretty good and will be a nice addition to the game.
The drake is totally overpowered, can outank and outdps most, if not all, other BC's at the same time.

The Myrmidon (in its current config) is never going to get used.*snip*


Another alt aimed at FLAMING Caldari. Isn't anyone here see the USUAL GALLENTE WHINE of OOOHH GIVE ME MORE DRONE SPACE, F*** UP ALL OTHER SHIPS!

Geez... this is crap, I hope the people at CCP acutally ignore such obvious and blatant WHINE fests!!!

Next thing who knows the new BC for Gallente will have drone space as the Dominix with the damage and count drone bonuses to 15-20%..

Quote: "When another BC can take away 80% of your damage before your drones even get to it something is wrong..."

Answer: Pot in very high quantities is bad for you! Stop while you have something left in your head that you can use, or is it too late!


Kodiak31415 is spot on, oh and I hope the people at CCP acutally ignore such obvious and blatant CALDARI FANBOI fests!!!

Your another caldari fanboi who would love for the drake to be released as is, so u can fly around with another win button ship.

do you know what will happen if the drake is released as is? the only caldari ships youll see in space will be Drakes, Ravens and the odd scorp here and there.Rolling Eyes

Peppy LePew
Posted - 2006.11.09 02:41:00 - [693]
 

Originally by: Hanns

do you know what will happen if the drake is released as is? the only caldari ships youll see in space will be Drakes, Ravens and the odd scorp here and there.Rolling Eyes


Kinda how the only Gallente ships in space are Thoraxes, Megathrons and the occasional Dominix? Oh wait almost every hauler I see is Gellente too, nevermind. Rolling Eyes

And have fun trying to PvP in a Drake. Not only does it not have more DPS than all the other BCs (please see the several graphs that have been presented in this very topic), but it can't have hardly any tank / EWAR at all while using those weapons.

Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2006.11.09 11:10:00 - [694]
 

Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
well ok then how about this.

Up the myrmidon drone bay to 150 m and up the drone bonuses by an additional 5%; this would allow for 4 heavies and 2 mediums drones 1 light, or create your own spiffy combo.

Plus don't forget the 3 rig slots which will help improve the drones even more.

Before anyone else complains I would like to really hear about how the drone rigs improve the drones on the myrmidon. I ask this because I have not heard of anyone using drone rigs yet.


On a side note: Try pve in the cosmos complexes in Sinq and Metropolis. The rats there use pvp tactics. They scram, stasis and gang on you.

That would make the 5-heavy Myrmidon do a wee bit too much damage, actually.

Also, drone rigs don't help combat drones. They only help sentry drones, electronic warfare drones, or utility drones. Or misc drone bonuses that are all-in-all useless such as drone control range. There are no combat drone damage rigs.
As anyone with some brains know, sentry drones are useless so the only drone rig that might be able to help the Myrmidon does not.

But rigs wouldn't change anything at all in either case. What is needed is BACKUP DRONES. 5 heavies + 10% per level drone bonus puts the Myrmidon up at a competative level, then you need backup drones on top of that.
Not a single extra flight, you need more than that. Drones die so damned easy it's not funny, especially now that people will actually start shooting the drones because the host ship is bolstered with +50% hit points.

It's a disgrace that a drone ship is the only ship that is not allowed a reusable main weapon system, but it is inherent in the poor design of drones which stem from when drones were strict backup weapons.

Cletus Graeme
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.11.09 12:09:00 - [695]
 

Originally by: Logan Xerxes

Originally by: Blind Man

ArrowDrake also gets 7 launchers and a ROF bonus, compared to 5 rails and a optimal bonus on the Ferox. Maybe change the Ferox to have less missiles and 7 guns? the Vulture would also need this change.


Yea, after this I feel that the Ferox will need to have a look at in order to not become useless to anyone who is not using it as a stepping stone between the Moa and Rokh.


Uhm, that's what the Ferox was always supposed to be. Finally it will be used as a rail sniper. This is a good thing.

Still, it wouldn't hurt to revise it's damage output so it really represents a mid-way point between the moa and the rokh rather than just being a moa with an extra turret.

Then again, it's still a cruiser (albeit a battlecruiser) so maybe it's the drake which needs nerfing, as currently it wtfpwns the caracal !

Guano Cakes
Posted - 2006.11.09 13:25:00 - [696]
 

Originally by: Cletus Graeme
Originally by: Logan Xerxes

Originally by: Blind Man

ArrowDrake also gets 7 launchers and a ROF bonus, compared to 5 rails and a optimal bonus on the Ferox. Maybe change the Ferox to have less missiles and 7 guns? the Vulture would also need this change.


Yea, after this I feel that the Ferox will need to have a look at in order to not become useless to anyone who is not using it as a stepping stone between the Moa and Rokh.


Uhm, that's what the Ferox was always supposed to be. Finally it will be used as a rail sniper. This is a good thing.

Still, it wouldn't hurt to revise it's damage output so it really represents a mid-way point between the moa and the rokh rather than just being a moa with an extra turret.

Then again, it's still a cruiser (albeit a battlecruiser) so maybe it's the drake which needs nerfing, as currently it wtfpwns the caracal !


Sorry, but nobody will be using the Ferox after the Drake. Why? For the same reason people use it as a missile ship now. It's a pathetic attempt at filling the gap between the kestrel and the raven, and it makes a weak missile boat at that. It's only saving grace is the nice shield resist bonus, but with a ship that actually has the OPTION of dealing some damage while tanking (and no, it aint no Tank 'n' Gank with basic heavy missiles), it will become obsolete.

Tell me if you will, what good a passive tank is if you can't even kill NPCs with it? Because I'm dying to know why people think doing so is overpowered.

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:30:00 - [697]
 

But the Ferox is a gunship, so the argument is moot anyway.

Schlauke
Gallente
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.11.09 17:14:00 - [698]
 

Anybody else noticed that since they changed the Slot and Turret Layout of the Myrmidon it only has 17 Slots total while all the other Tier 2 BCs have 18 Slots total? So give one of the high Slots back to the Myrmidon.

Greetings Schlauke

OneSock
Crown Industries
Posted - 2006.11.09 17:34:00 - [699]
 

OK rather than increase the dronebay, just give it an uber drone HP bonus. That way it would be a waste of time for an opponent to shoot at your drones.

Nonoffensive
Sniggerdly
Posted - 2006.11.09 19:57:00 - [700]
 

Originally by: OneSock
OK rather than increase the dronebay, just give it an uber drone HP bonus. That way it would be a waste of time for an opponent to shoot at your drones.


This would not change the fact that the Myr is still doing about the dps of a Vexor. The Myr should at least be given a reasonable chance to outdamage its Cruiser varient. 1 extra turret worth of dps and +25m3 of drone space doesn't cut it for something that costs 10x the ISK. As it stands right now the Myr is not a drone boat, it is a Teir 2 BC with 17 slots and a drone bonus.

I would like options. Options are good and currently in Kali DPS doesn't win solo fights anyway.

Talon Calais
Defilers Of The Cross
Posted - 2006.11.09 21:32:00 - [701]
 

Nerf the hurricane now. Messing around with one on my minnie alt, who has crap gunnery + missile skills, fitted as such:

7x 425s w/Phased Plasma
1x Heavy Assault w/Terror

MWD II
L Shield booster
Kin + Therm hardeners

2x Gyro IIs
2x Nanofiber
1x Inertial Stabalizer

It's a very cheap and insurable vaga.

Ath Amon
Posted - 2006.11.09 22:54:00 - [702]
 

Originally by: Talon Calais
Nerf the hurricane now. Messing around with one on my minnie alt, who has crap gunnery + missile skills, fitted as such:

7x 425s w/Phased Plasma
1x Heavy Assault w/Terror

MWD II
L Shield booster
Kin + Therm hardeners

2x Gyro IIs
2x Nanofiber
1x Inertial Stabalizer

It's a very cheap and insurable vaga.


lol then nerf everything as with a pair of inertia stabs any ship becomes a cheap and insurable vaga Razz

Acheron Cyc
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.10 05:09:00 - [703]
 

Originally by: Guano Cakes
Originally by: Cletus Graeme
Originally by: Logan Xerxes

Originally by: Blind Man

ArrowDrake also gets 7 launchers and a ROF bonus, compared to 5 rails and a optimal bonus on the Ferox. Maybe change the Ferox to have less missiles and 7 guns? the Vulture would also need this change.


Yea, after this I feel that the Ferox will need to have a look at in order to not become useless to anyone who is not using it as a stepping stone between the Moa and Rokh.


Uhm, that's what the Ferox was always supposed to be. Finally it will be used as a rail sniper. This is a good thing.

Still, it wouldn't hurt to revise it's damage output so it really represents a mid-way point between the moa and the rokh rather than just being a moa with an extra turret.

Then again, it's still a cruiser (albeit a battlecruiser) so maybe it's the drake which needs nerfing, as currently it wtfpwns the caracal !


Sorry, but nobody will be using the Ferox after the Drake. Why? For the same reason people use it as a missile ship now. It's a pathetic attempt at filling the gap between the kestrel and the raven, and it makes a weak missile boat at that. It's only saving grace is the nice shield resist bonus, but with a ship that actually has the OPTION of dealing some damage while tanking (and no, it aint no Tank 'n' Gank with basic heavy missiles), it will become obsolete.

Tell me if you will, what good a passive tank is if you can't even kill NPCs with it? Because I'm dying to know why people think doing so is overpowered.

Yep, noone will use it because all the sad missile ***** will switch, but at least, we will see the remaining Feroxes being used for what they were meant to: Gunships.


Guano Cakes
Posted - 2006.11.10 08:01:00 - [704]
 

Originally by: Acheron Cyc

Yep, noone will use it because all the sad missile ***** will switch, but at least, we will see the remaining Feroxes being used for what they were meant to: Gunships.




Did you at least agree with the point, that it is a terrible gun ship? That's why it is used as a missile boat afterall, the range bonus is negligible and for that matter, most of the other caldari "gunships" are pretty worthless as well. The Harpy being the only exception. The Drake is at the core a Ferox with 2 more missile slots, an extra mid but less ability to fit weapons without filling the lows with PDS, that is far from overpowered. Yet I suppose the RoF bonus makes it so overpowered! God nerf it pls

Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
Posted - 2006.11.10 09:18:00 - [705]
 

Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
well ok then how about this.

Up the myrmidon drone bay to 150 m and up the drone bonuses by an additional 5%; this would allow for 4 heavies and 2 mediums drones 1 light, or create your own spiffy combo.

Plus don't forget the 3 rig slots which will help improve the drones even more.

Before anyone else complains I would like to really hear about how the drone rigs improve the drones on the myrmidon. I ask this because I have not heard of anyone using drone rigs yet


Yeah the math there is a bit wrong, so I won't go into that.

The rigs right now aren't interesting at all. Since there is no dmg mod rig apart from for the sentry drones (yeah large drones, so you can't even use a full load atm) you have some really great ones left:

well you don't, but there's a control range mod: sucks cos it's less than a link augmentor and any real drone user would rather use a high slot for that. A hp bonus rig .. like that's gonna matter.. it will take people an extra salvo to kill a drone (sweet) but with the 50% hp boost it won't matter. I think there's a drone speed mod.. I suppose that COULD be useful for heavy drones (so not on a myrmi) but with the drone .. features .. faster drones have lower chance of hitting = crap. The non battle drone rigs will be even less interesting since the myrmi needs drones for dmg.

So if you would spend money on rigs (seriously for a myrmi why would you not just take a domi then?) you would prolly do it for speed or armour.

So there you go..

On a side-note: I wholeheartedly agree that although the drake may look overpowered, it will be rather moot in solo-pvp ing cos shield tanking + tackling = ftl. It will be rather uber in small gangs with tacklers, but being a (short range?) BC, it will die rather horribly vs BS .. I think..

Niaal
Posted - 2006.11.10 16:38:00 - [706]
 

Hmm.. Myr is low on damage? How does a myr with 3 med nos compare to a harbinger with 3 nos? Wink

Talon Calais
Defilers Of The Cross
Posted - 2006.11.10 17:44:00 - [707]
 

Originally by: Ath Amon

lol then nerf everything as with a pair of inertia stabs any ship becomes a cheap and insurable vaga Razz

Let me put it this way, a BC with major firepower and a tank has no business doing 2.1k/s with the ability to navigate like an assault frig (It's as nimble as my Enyo).

Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2006.11.10 21:30:00 - [708]
 

Schlauke, it's intentional. It sacrifices two high slots for one extra low slot.

Originally by: Niaal
Hmm.. Myr is low on damage? How does a myr with 3 med nos compare to a harbinger with 3 nos? Wink


The Harbringer doesn't have 3 med nos. It takes it's increased range and sticks outside the Myrmidon's nosferatus, killing it - not slowly but fast.

Sphalerite
Applied Eugenics
Posted - 2006.11.10 23:53:00 - [709]
 

Originally by: Talon Calais
Let me put it this way, a BC with major firepower and a tank has no business doing 2.1k/s with the ability to navigate like an assault frig (It's as nimble as my Enyo).


That has to be one of the worst Hurricane fittings I've seen to date. A large shield booster with a MWD fit and no cap mods is not a tank. I'm reasonably sure that it I could kill that solo with a crow.

That being said, the hurricane is a fantastic ship with a couple of excellent fitting options that I expect to see quite a few of. The harb and myr could use a little push to put them in line with the 'cane and drake.

Ath Amon
Posted - 2006.11.11 09:22:00 - [710]
 

Edited by: Ath Amon on 11/11/2006 13:35:58
Originally by: Talon Calais
Originally by: Ath Amon

lol then nerf everything as with a pair of inertia stabs any ship becomes a cheap and insurable vaga Razz

Let me put it this way, a BC with major firepower and a tank has no business doing 2.1k/s with the ability to navigate like an assault frig (It's as nimble as my Enyo).


then the problem is about inertia stabs and not by the hurricane... you can do the same thing on the drake, brutix and even harbringer... we should nerf all of them?

nanoconfigs are extremely easy to do on sisi, is not a thing that only the hurricane can do...

also probably this will work better with caldari ships due to the no tracking issue of missiles.

with t2 rigs it should be possible to drop another cap recharger and go with 3/2 or 2/3 dmg/track config or 2/2 + plate

Atar
Perpetua Umbra
Brotherhood Of Steel
Posted - 2006.11.11 17:07:00 - [711]
 

Quote:
It's a very cheap and insurable vaga.


God forbid that something might actually drive Vaga prices down, besides you can place those same stabilizers on a Vaga, try it, I did it's nuts.

Players have been doing that for ages, look at the Nano-phoon, it can fly cicles around any BC and almost most crusiers, it's one tactic in a million that one can have.

Besides the fact that, to me, is not a very viable setup, I'd much rather have a decent tank (Armor) then orbit beyond the tracking of my ACs.

People can setup there ships how they want and I'd happily take a nice tanked Hurricane to fight a 'Vaganized' Hurricane (or for that matter any BC with stabilizers).

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2006.11.12 11:10:00 - [712]
 

Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Plus don't forget the 3 rig slots which will help improve the drones even more.

Before anyone else complains I would like to really hear about how the drone rigs improve the drones on the myrmidon. I ask this because I have not heard of anyone using drone rigs yet.


Drone rigs are not that useful. They only give you stuff like speed or control range increase. The only +damage drone rig is for sentry drones. There exists no +dronebay rig.

And for balancing the myrmidon vs other drone ships righs are pretty useless in the first place anyway, sicne theother drone ships can fit them just as well.

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2006.11.12 18:42:00 - [713]
 

I just tested the Drake for a quick-run before they closed it down and changed it to test a Dragon code until tuesday Sad

First off 7 launchers is great... but I think it's nicely balanced - It reminds me a bit of a brutix actually. only this ship is way too slow and cumbersome...

I only tried with the passive badass tank - That is very insane, BUT I had to leave the 8th high empty and fit 2 RCU's just to install 7 HAMs and 3 Large Shield Extenders with 3 passive shield hardeners (active doesn't fit due to cpu). Considered all users have Heavy Assault Missile spec 5 on testserver I say it's nicely balanced but rather skillheavy to use...

Pinky

Siakel
Posted - 2006.11.13 03:50:00 - [714]
 

Originally by: Hanns
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Kodiak31415
What I've come up with so far is:

The harbringer is awseome and ammar needed some love, no problem there.
The hurricane is pretty good and will be a nice addition to the game.
The drake is totally overpowered, can outank and outdps most, if not all, other BC's at the same time.

The Myrmidon (in its current config) is never going to get used.*snip*


Another alt aimed at FLAMING Caldari. Isn't anyone here see the USUAL GALLENTE WHINE of OOOHH GIVE ME MORE DRONE SPACE, F*** UP ALL OTHER SHIPS!

Geez... this is crap, I hope the people at CCP acutally ignore such obvious and blatant WHINE fests!!!

Next thing who knows the new BC for Gallente will have drone space as the Dominix with the damage and count drone bonuses to 15-20%..

Quote: "When another BC can take away 80% of your damage before your drones even get to it something is wrong..."

Answer: Pot in very high quantities is bad for you! Stop while you have something left in your head that you can use, or is it too late!


Kodiak31415 is spot on, oh and I hope the people at CCP acutally ignore such obvious and blatant CALDARI FANBOI fests!!!

Your another caldari fanboi who would love for the drake to be released as is, so u can fly around with another win button ship.

do you know what will happen if the drake is released as is? the only caldari ships youll see in space will be Drakes, Ravens and the odd scorp here and there.Rolling Eyes



Well, he got most of it right. Except the Harbinger, while nice enough I suppose... isn't 'awesome' while the Hurricane, which he says is 'pretty good' is second only to the Drake, but is also able to solo.

Kaden Seer
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.11.13 08:27:00 - [715]
 

Bigger drone bay for Myrmidon!

Heelay Ashrum
Caldari
Crimson Logistical
Posted - 2006.11.13 11:11:00 - [716]
 

just curious ...
after 24 pages of replyes, the admins tried some change on myr ( or other ships there some changes was suggested) or it's everithing unchanged?

Graff Spee
Amarr
Kingfisher Industries
Posted - 2006.11.13 11:19:00 - [717]
 

All this bickering about some stuff being overpowered.... While you all miss the point.....These ships are all better than their tier 1 brethren, and make all forms of combat/non combat activities better for battlecruisers. And everyone can use the new missiles, caldari just have alot more missile slots....no shock there, its their style. ANyone try mixing these with blasters?

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2006.11.13 11:21:00 - [718]
 

afaik the Myrmod had a change in slot design to help it out...

Akiman
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2006.11.13 11:59:00 - [719]
 

anyone tried brutix vs myrmidon? without ewar ofc...

Akiman
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2006.11.13 12:03:00 - [720]
 

Originally by: Pinky Denmark
afaik the Myrmod had a change in slot design to help it out...


anybody got more info about this?!?


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