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Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.10.28 18:37:00 - [361]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 28/10/2006 22:28:50
Edited by: Goumindong on 28/10/2006 22:28:17
Originally by: keepiru
Meh, 7 Foc. Med. Pulse II, Mwd, Jector and 2 reps fits, that's good enough for me fitting wise.

Sure, you cant fit Heavy pulses mwd dual reps and injector, but then the hurricane has to fit 220s instead of 425s for the same fit.

Heavy Beam IIs fit better than Tach IIs on amarr battleships, so as far as I'm concerned, the PG/CPU right now is fine, but it needs either:

  • 8th high moved to low, for a 7/4/7 setup

  • 8th turret back and the grid/cpu to use it


  • And a small cap boost, 250 cap over the hurricane don't cut it.


    Its good enough for you, until you realize that now you are going to be out tanked by a hurricane and out gunned, as well as out speeded, and outsized.

    As it stands right now, the ship is hundreds of CPU and PG below the Hurricane due to fitting issues with lasers, as well, its lacking in the damage department compared to the hurricane, especialy since the hurricane has the ability to fit gun rigs and the harbinger does not[not on its biggest guns, the Hurricane can fit 3 run rigs depending on calibration on 425's and still beat the Harbinger in terms of overall CPU and PG use at max skills compared to heavy pulses.

    At t1 rigs, that is between a an extra 33% DPS boost[at no extra ammo consumption] or a 37.5% DPS boost[with a large extra ammo consumption].

    If the Harbinger fits Focused Medium Pulses, the Hurricane can fit Dual 180mm Auto cannons fit, 3 damage mods and be using the same amount of PG. In this situation the Harbinger is actualy up 125 PG after fitting...[.914]. Then again, the Hurricane is doing between 30% and 60% more damage[depending on how rigs and ship bonuses stack with each other] with her guns than the Harbinger.

    So go ahead and fit 7 focused medium pulses, a guy in a hurricane will still out damage you and probably out tank you. Heck, with just dual 180mm's he beats you on powergrid by 30 per gun and outdamages you by 40% over focused medium pulses, with the ship bonus and no rigs.[10% with no ship bonus]


    2SecondsTilMidnight
    Posted - 2006.10.28 19:11:00 - [362]
     

    Originally by: Shodana
    Probably been said before, but oh well.

    Drake with 7L/3t high slot split, 6 mid, 4 low. 5% shield resistance per level and 5% ROF bonus... OMFG. I just left a stain running from the floor to the ceiling.

    Ferox with 5L/5t high slot split, 5 mid, 4 low. 5% shield resistance per level and 10% to optimal range per level. Ferox is going to become extinct. As is, I have never seen a ferox fit with blasters or rails. Always missile spamming with ewar.

    So...

    Why do the caldari have 2 missile spamming BC? Any plans to make the ferox a 7t/3L high slot split now that the caldari have an uber missile spammer or plans to reconfigure the drake to a full turret boat?

    I don't mind. I am a missile ***** to the core of my being and love the drake's configuration, just seems a bit over the top with 7 launchers, 6 mids, and 4 lows. Not to mention renders the ferox useless.






    Have you actually ever flown a missle ferox before? It's not very strong, it's got pretty horrid dps.

    Lrootrnas
    Posted - 2006.10.28 19:21:00 - [363]
     

    Edited by: Lrootrnas on 28/10/2006 19:24:46

    keepiru
    Omega Fleet Enterprises
    Executive Outcomes
    Posted - 2006.10.28 19:23:00 - [364]
     

    Edited by: keepiru on 28/10/2006 19:24:57
    Originally by: Shodana
    So, that's why it's a 5T/5L split. Give someone the option of something that always hits and they'll run with it -either that or be drone mongers :)

    If the Drake goes through the with the 7L/3T split, why not give the Ferox 8 highlots in a 7 turret, 3 launcher split, keep the mids and lows as is? Although as you stated, "... they prefer EvE on easy mode... " and will just swap over to the drake.

    No. Keep the total slots, give 2 more turret hardpoints and remove 2 launchers, add some grid and remove a little CPU.

    Originally by: Goumindong
    Its good enough for you, until you realize that now you are going to be out tanked by a hurricane and out gunned, as well as out speeded, and outsized.

    As it stands right now, the ship is hundreds of CPU and PG below the Hurricane due to fitting issues with lasers, as well, its lacking in the damage department compared to the hurricane, especialy since the hurricane has the ability to fit gun rigs and the harbinger does not[not on its biggest guns, the Hurricane can fit 3 run rigs depending on calibration on 425's and still beat the Harbinger in terms of overall CPU and PG use at max skills compared to heavy pulses.

    At t1 rigs, that is between a an extra 33% DPS boost[at no extra ammo consumption] or a 37.5% DPS boost[with a large extra ammo consumption].

    If the Harbinger fits Focused Medium Pulses, the Hurricane can fit Dual 180mm Auto cannons fit, 3 damage mods and be using the same amount of PG. In this situation the Harbinger is actualy up 125 PG after fitting...[.914]. Then again, the Hurricane is doing between 73% and 85% more damage[depending on how rigs and ship bonuses stack with each other] with her guns than the Harbinger.

    So go ahead and fit 7 focused medium pulses, a guy in a hurricane will still out damage you and probably out tank you. Heck, with just dual 180mm's he beats you on powergrid by 30 per gun and outdamages you by 40% over focused medium pulses, with the ship bonus and no rigs.[10% with no ship bonus]

    Some interesting arguments, but I havn't seen your math so I'll have to run it myself and see what I come up with.

    Zeknichov
    Life. Universe. Everything.
    Posted - 2006.10.28 21:02:00 - [365]
     

    Change the myrmidon to a Drone+EW ship.

    Take away the armor rep bonus and replace it with a Sensor Dampener strength or range/cap bonus.

    Replace two high slots with 2 medium slots and remove another turret.

    Increase drone bay to 200.

    With 5 heavies + 3 replacements this ship is mathematically on par with the drone capacity for a cruiser done boat. Its DPS is also on par with the DPS of the other new BCs. With sensor dampeners it will take ships a lot longer to lockdown each of the dones and kill them.

    Goumindong
    SniggWaffe
    Posted - 2006.10.28 22:01:00 - [366]
     

    Originally by: keepiru
    Some interesting arguments, but I havn't seen your math so I'll have to run it myself and see what I come up with.

    [i made an error for the damage multiplier of the 180mm, i used the damage bonus from t2 to compare to a t1 pulse, which gives the 180II a 20% damage boost that it shouldnt have.]
    Here is how I did my math.

    I took the weapons damage multiplier then divided by its rate of fire. This, multiplied by the ammo damage gives you your base DPS for each gun. So, I assume equally skilled people, which means that the miltiplier applied to damage is equal and can be set to 1. Then I compare with what i know about how rigs work.

    All info so far points to rigs stack penalizing themselves [a mistake above, but since you can spread them out over gun bonuses, isnt a huge issue] but not stack penalizing with modules.

    What i dont know is whether or not they penalize with ship bonuses.

    So looking at the Dual 180mm autocannon, it has a DPS multiplier of 1.375 and a ROF of 3. For a final damage rating of .4583. A dual 180mm autocannon uses 80 PG

    A focused medium pulse has a DPS multiplier of 2 with a ROF of 4.05 for a final damage multiplier of .4938. A focused medium pulse ses 120 PG

    So if we apply 2 damage rig, and 1 ROF rigs, all at t1 levels, this means is a 10% damage bonus for each, and a 10% RoF bonus for each. For a total damage multiplier for the gun of around 1.17/.9 = 1.30 and a total PG modifier of 1.331.

    So a dual 180mm autocannon will use 106.4 powergrid and have a final DPS multiplier of .5958[better than a Heavy Pulse Laser by a couple percent], and do 20.6% more DPS than a focused medium pulse laser which uses 120 powergrid. So comparing the Hurricane VS the Harbinger, with equal about PG usage[116 total difference in favor of the AC's, 125 total PG higher on the harbinger] before ship bonuses the hurricanes guns do 20.6% more damage than the harbingers.

    This gets worse for guns that use more powergrid as you start using heavier guns and tech II guns[and tech II rigs as well] as the powergrid difference between the larger guns get 10% bigger, creating a larger total powergrid difference for each gun.

    What happens when we compare roughly equal sized guns? Focused Medium Pulses to 200mm autocannons?

    FMP is at .4938 and 120 powergrid.

    200mm Autocannons are at .4881 with 100 powergrid.

    A 200mm autocannon user can fit two rigs [t1 would give a 21% DPS boost for 1 damage/1 rof for a total DPS mod of .5906] and be just barely over the powergrid usage of the FMP. So with the autocannons you use no cap, instead use ammo, gain 19.6% dps boost and gain CPU fitting versus a FMP.

    Comparing the biggest of the guns, the 425's which have a damage of 1.925 and a ROF of 3.75[140 PG] to heavy pulses with a damage of 3 and an rof of 5.25[210 PG].

    425 Autocannon base DPS multiplier = .5133

    Heavy Pulse Laser base DPS multiplier = .5714

    425 PG use with 3 rigs. = 186.34

    425 Base DPS multplier with 2 damage/1 rof[to conserve ammo, 1 damage/2 rof is stronger] = .6672 = 16% better than the Heavy Pulse Laser with 20 more PG use[after the PG differences in ships are calculated]

    T2 rigs make this worse, T2 guns make this worse.

    Now start figuring in the ship bonuses[rof for each is null] and you see why there is an issue with the Hurricane out damaging the Harbinger and out Tanking it.

    Now, the big guns would be great if you could fit rigs on to them too, but you cant as effectivly, because of PG issues. A Heavy Pulse Laser with 2 rigs[and an 8 PG rig boost] on the ship to accomidate] will gain 150 PG from the rig at max skills and the HMP's will jump 280 PG use total at AWU 5[for a net loss of 150 PG, you will gain 5% or so damage] you get closer to the damage with T2 rigs, but with T2 guns the PG use difference becomes even larger.

    This wouldnt be an issue if ships didnt have limited powergrid, but of course, they do.

    It will also make autocannon/hybrid even better on amarr ships with no laser bonus

    Rahjadan Shardur
    Minmatar
    Mafia Redux
    Posted - 2006.10.28 22:55:00 - [367]
     

    yes so the hurricane outdamages the harbinger, but you did not factor in the reload time for ACs. reloade time is more importent now that ships have more hp and you need more ammo to kill them.

    Sniser
    Caldari Provisions
    Posted - 2006.10.28 23:22:00 - [368]
     

    Originally by: Rahjadan Shardur
    yes so the hurricane outdamages the harbinger, but you did not factor in the reload time for ACs. reloade time is more importent now that ships have more hp and you need more ammo to kill them.


    you reload, lasers have SHORT falloff and we need change ammo more times. I usually change my ammo 2 times in each fight one when im far and another when im near but maybe i had to change it again for middle range. How many times do you reload? 1? 2?

    keepiru
    Omega Fleet Enterprises
    Executive Outcomes
    Posted - 2006.10.28 23:40:00 - [369]
     

    Are you factoring in the fact that the rig skill decreases the penalty to 50% @ lvl5?

    Alek Row
    Minmatar
    Silent Step
    Posted - 2006.10.29 00:46:00 - [370]
     

    Edited by: Alek Row on 29/10/2006 00:49:54
    Edited by: Alek Row on 29/10/2006 00:47:17
    Originally by: Sniser

    you reload, lasers have SHORT falloff and we need change ammo more times. I usually change my ammo 2 times in each fight one when im far and another when im near but maybe i had to change it again for middle range. How many times do you reload? 1? 2?


    ACs don't shoot without ammo, and I think projectile reloads take more time than crystal reloads.

    Reload time surelly counts on overall DPS when we're talking about projectiles, we can't shoot without ammo and you can shoot without crystals. Not without cap, but without crystals you still can shoot.


    Rahjadan Shardur
    Minmatar
    Mafia Redux
    Posted - 2006.10.29 00:53:00 - [371]
     

    Edited by: Rahjadan Shardur on 29/10/2006 01:08:29
    Edited by: Rahjadan Shardur on 29/10/2006 01:02:35
    Originally by: Alek Row
    Edited by: Alek Row on 29/10/2006 00:47:17
    Originally by: Sniser

    you reload, lasers have SHORT falloff and we need change ammo more times. I usually change my ammo 2 times in each fight one when im far and another when im near but maybe i had to change it again for middle range. How many times do you reload? 1? 2?


    ACs don't shoot without ammo, and I think projectile reloads take more time than crystal reloads.

    Reload time surelly counts on overall DPS when we're talking about projectiles, we can't shoot without ammo and you can shoot without crystals. Not without cap, but with crystals you can still shoot.




    no actualy he can't shoot without crystals but laser crystal change time ist about 2sec. as for the AC reload: 2 reloads maybe depanding on the tank, which is already 20sec without damage.

    edit: i think this discussion is a bit senseless untill the harbinger has been extansively testet on sisi. if the field tests show the ship is not strong enough change it otherwise leave it as it is (and please let it be testet by pilots with equal skills to their oponents).

    Alek Row
    Minmatar
    Silent Step
    Posted - 2006.10.29 01:03:00 - [372]
     

    Edited by: Alek Row on 29/10/2006 01:03:00
    Originally by: Rahjadan Shardur

    no actualy he can't shoot without crystals but laser crystal change time ist about 2sec. as for the AC reload: 2 reloads maybe depanding on the tank, which is already 20sec without damage.


    My mistake then, didn't knew that. Thx.

    Spaja Saist
    Gallente
    The Scope
    Posted - 2006.10.29 02:10:00 - [373]
     

    Originally by: Black Scorpio
    Originally by: Aramendel
    Originally by: SmokeDog
    Uhm well I calculated my Drake DPS last night with 3 bcu II on and it was hardly overwhelming.. granted I have Battlecruisers 1 and Heavy Assault Missiles 2 at the moment and was using Arbalest Heavy Assault Launchers.. 153dmg per missile and a 3.56sec rof.. about 300dps, granted there a lot of room for improvement.. maybe can get the DPS up to 500.. with a max range of 15km (max missile skills, which I have except for the HAMs) and a top speed of 400m/s with an afterburner II (max nav), hardly overpowered though.


    Well, with 2 BCU2 and rage you can get over 600 dps with max skills (and 5 hobgoblins). With javelin assaults you can push it to almost 500 dps for up to 60 km atm.


    Hey Alt, what is the penalty again for using the Rage "HAM"s that you so much push forward?


    You have got to be the most immature poster I've had the misfortune to read. And what makes this person an alt. She's in a corp and alliance. I see no corp or alliance in your sig so that must mean you're just an alt who likes to flame people for no reason. Please for the sake of contructive posting just stop. You just make yourself look bad and we have enough of that on the forums.

    As to the Mym, Up the drone bay to 120m3 and give the ship another turret. After all the artist seems to think it needs another turret.

    Malafor
    The Dregs Of Humanity
    Posted - 2006.10.29 02:43:00 - [374]
     

    My suggestion to fixing the "Myrmidon-problem".

    Instead if increasing its drone bay, Just make it possible to move
    drones from cargo to the drone bay.
    That would eliminate alot of problems with many drone ships.
    Like the Vexor,Arbitrator and pilgrim/curse.

    This way the Myrmidon would be abble to have spare heavy drones
    when fielding 4 heavys in battle.

    And i dont think it would need a 5th heavy drone for more dps,
    Seeing its slot layout it has alot of advantage in battle as it is
    so versatile in every field.

    It can both nos or use turrets, It has alot of med-slots for ew,
    It has a Repair bonus which makes it a good tank.

    That is my oppinion, in a pvp point of view.

    (And plz dont change the Drake, and fix more cap for the Harbringer.)

    Udyr Vulpayne
    Amarr
    PIE Inc.
    Posted - 2006.10.29 03:21:00 - [375]
     

    Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 29/10/2006 03:50:14
    Originally by: Malafor

    Instead if increasing its drone bay, Just make it possible to move
    drones from cargo to the drone bay.
    That would eliminate alot of problems with many drone ships.



    wouldnt work under current mechanics i believe. you could launch your 4 heavies then move a heavy from cargo to drone bay and launch that one. once your done just scoop one into the cargo bay.

    with this change in place every ship with at least 25m3 dronebay would be able to field 5 heavy drones.


    Goumindong
    SniggWaffe
    Posted - 2006.10.29 06:26:00 - [376]
     

    Edited by: Goumindong on 29/10/2006 06:28:40
    Originally by: keepiru
    Are you factoring in the fact that the rig skill decreases the penalty to 50% @ lvl5?


    No, i hadnt, this makes the issue not quite as bad when both ships/gun types fit rigs, but you still have the same problem with powergrid usage and its still easier for the Hurricane to fit gun rigs as opposed to the harbinger.

    For instance, at max rig skills with 3 gun rigs, a 425 autocannon I uses 48 PG less than a unmodified Heavy Pulse I, 44 PG with AWU 5. With both guns fitted, the harbinger at max skills will have 185 less powergrid than a hurricane at max skills.

    The hurricane of course, will be doing significantly more damage with no cap usage.


    keepiru
    Omega Fleet Enterprises
    Executive Outcomes
    Posted - 2006.10.29 07:03:00 - [377]
     

    Well, ome interesting numbers to be sure, they're only right assuming tux does increase EMP damage so it does as much as Multifrequency and Antimatter tho.

    I think the problem here is one tux touched upon once, and that is, fitting difference between Autocannons and Howitzers is too large, and it makes balancing minnie ships very hard.

    Regardless, I'm going to hold my council about this particular issue until SISI is stable enough for extended testing.

    Parou Qong
    Today Corp
    Unity Thru Aggression.
    Posted - 2006.10.29 08:13:00 - [378]
     

    Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
    Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 29/10/2006 03:50:14
    Originally by: Malafor

    Instead if increasing its drone bay, Just make it possible to move
    drones from cargo to the drone bay.
    That would eliminate alot of problems with many drone ships.



    wouldnt work under current mechanics i believe. you could launch your 4 heavies then move a heavy from cargo to drone bay and launch that one. once your done just scoop one into the cargo bay.

    with this change in place every ship with at least 25m3 dronebay would be able to field 5 heavy drones.




    This is actually a good solution.

    Make moving drones from cargo to drone bay a specific bonus for this ship only. To prevent moving an extra drone into bay that shouldn't be there, have client do a check on m3 of drones currently in space (when attempting to move a drone into the drone bay).

    This will take just a moment but with pvp taking longer shouldn't be a factor. I'm not sure whether can be done with current mechanics, but it's an interesting concept.

    Tek'a Rain
    Gallente
    Collegium Mechanicae
    Posted - 2006.10.29 08:55:00 - [379]
     

    or, instead of thowing away the entire system and starting over from scratch.. the myrm could get a plenty bigger drone bay. tada, problem solved.

    Soratah
    Amarr
    Viziam
    Posted - 2006.10.29 09:55:00 - [380]
     

    Sounds like the jury's still out deliberating, but looking at the raw maths that some people have posted.

    Tier 2 BC top damage will be the Minmatar at close range, with Caldari coming in second. Myrmidon third, even with it's current dronebay situation. Last of all, the Harbinger with it's trademark Amarrian - buggered fitting requirements and laser capabilities.

    As I've seen someone else posting

    It's great being Amarrian...

    Sniser
    Caldari Provisions
    Posted - 2006.10.29 10:29:00 - [381]
     

    Originally by: Alek Row
    Edited by: Alek Row on 29/10/2006 00:49:54
    Edited by: Alek Row on 29/10/2006 00:47:17
    Originally by: Sniser

    you reload, lasers have SHORT falloff and we need change ammo more times. I usually change my ammo 2 times in each fight one when im far and another when im near but maybe i had to change it again for middle range. How many times do you reload? 1? 2?


    ACs don't shoot without ammo, and I think projectile reloads take more time than crystal reloads.

    Reload time surelly counts on overall DPS when we're talking about projectiles, we can't shoot without ammo and you can shoot without crystals. Not without cap, but without crystals you still can shoot.




    Sorry but my t2 crystals gone too. What do you think if my crystals t2 broke and you still have t2 ammo? maybe i can still shoot with t1 ammo but im going to die since i cant do the same dps with my lost

    Spaced Skunk
    Caldari Provisions
    Posted - 2006.10.29 10:34:00 - [382]
     

    Originally by: Blind Man
    Originally by: Frools
    Edited by: Frools on 27/10/2006 13:20:36
    7/4/7 harbinger with 7 turrets and maybe a touch more grid would be hawt


    what about the absolution? Rolling EyesRolling EyesRolling Eyes


    People are getting carried away here arent they hehe

    Remember people these ships are tech1 :)

    Coreantes
    Posted - 2006.10.29 11:46:00 - [383]
     

    Originally by: Zeknichov
    Change the myrmidon to a Drone+EW ship.
    Take away the armor rep bonus and replace it with a Sensor Dampener strength or range/cap bonus.
    Replace two high slots with 2 medium slots and remove another turret.


    I would like this. Gives Gallente more defensive capabilities. The Brutix will still be the damage+tank, the Myrmidon will be able to do a crossing between the Vexor and the Celestis, or kind of the big version for the Amarr Arbitrator!

    As for the drone-bay, I think it's fair to have 10 medium T2 drones! Giving it the option to launch heavies or sentries would be to much. It's not a BS, you know? But a drone-EW hybrid would be fun!

    Jom Lik
    Posted - 2006.10.29 12:31:00 - [384]
     

    Edited by: Jom Lik on 29/10/2006 12:35:38
    Edited by: Jom Lik on 29/10/2006 12:35:01
    To make things easier here is recap about Myrmidon (it looks like most people that posted are not happy with it) from thread. I hope this list can help dev to see what concerns other players have.

    - Many players mentioning that Myrmidon needs a larger drone bay
    - Suggestion about drone bonus change and different bonuses: to give dmg/other (speed bounus etc.), drone dmg bonuses (different for light/med and heavy, dmg bonuses only for light/med)
    - Suggestion about +1 drone control per skill level
    - Suggestion anout +25m3 drone space per skill level
    - Most players mentioning drone bay increase from 125m3 to 200m3
    - Some players mentioning cut in number of high slots and adding of one more low slot (for improved tank).
    - Many players pointing that with HP boost for ships and no dmg boost for drones simple tactics will be to destroy all drones first and kill Myrmidon (without drones Myrm is loosing a lot of offensive power)
    - There is concern from some of players that without turret bonuses once when drones are dead Myrmidon is next to useless
    - There are comments about drones being very expensive (T2) in comparision with other T2 ammo and once drones are dead replacement will be very expensive (with new improved ship HP players will first target and destroy drones)
    - Many players agreed that in 1 vs 1 Myrmidon is usually doomed against other Tier-2 BCs
    - It looks like biggest fear for non Gallente players is from heavy drones
    - Many players pointing that average DPS for Myrm is lower than other Tier-2 and even some Tier-1 BCs

    This is just recap of things from thread and not my personal opinion. My personal opinion below.

    What looks like general 'problem' with BCs is that they are using cruiser sized modules/weapons. That is only class I think that is using stuff for another class of ships. There is not a single module dedicated for BCs and BCs in general are much bigger than average cruiser. I would like to see BC size 20Mn MWD or something similar :)

    I did have luck to try actual ship and from my experience Myrm is really not on pair with other Tier-2 BCs. Drake is uber machine and both Amarr/Minmatar ships are looking pretty balanced.

    I would like to see change in drone space - 200m3 will be great what gives player ability to have 1 wave of heavy, med and light drones but more important of all gives flexibility (I can chose to take 10 light, 5 med and assortment of ECM, web drones or any combo I see fit to my tactics). Also I can live without 1 (even 2) high slots for one more low slot for improved tank. PG/CPU can be tweaked to reflect changes if necesary.

    Aramendel
    Amarr
    Queens of the Stone Age
    Black Legion.
    Posted - 2006.10.29 13:00:00 - [385]
     

    The myr should get 200-225 m dronebay, but no (read: zero) turretslots. Those won't be of much use anyway and will shut up people who whine about it's dps with 5 neutron blasters (nvmd it won't be able to fit them with a good tank, let alone get into range well with it's huge mass) and 5 ogre 2.

    225m drone bay, 2 less highs, 2 more low and no weaponports.

    Futher Bezluden
    Minmatar
    ORIGIN SYSTEMS
    Atlas Alliance
    Posted - 2006.10.29 13:34:00 - [386]
     

    Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 29/10/2006 13:37:26
    Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 29/10/2006 13:35:43
    Originally by: Aramendel
    The myr should get 200-225 m dronebay, but no (read: zero) turretslots. Those won't be of much use anyway and will shut up people who whine about it's dps with 5 neutron blasters (nvmd it won't be able to fit them with a good tank, let alone get into range well with it's huge mass) and 5 ogre 2.

    225m drone bay, 2 less highs, 2 more low and no weaponports.


    T2 ammo has stacking penalties. Ever try a minmatar ac boat with hail? They almost move backwards and cap recharge rate skyrockets. I fly minmatar primarily and don't know about the other T2 ammo, but they all have a penalty that stack per turret loaded with it. T2 drones don't have a penalty of any kind other than "OMGWTF$"? All the T2 drones are faster and tougher than the T1. They may cost more but that is the only penalty incurred. They don't reduce the amount drained by nos/neutralizers Rolling Eyes .

    All who want the new gallente BC to have 225m drone bays just want a cheaper dominix and more uber vexor. As far as a "Damper" bonus... lmfao. Hell no, people are going to fit it with ewar anyway. No turrets? Rather silly there.

    Strip the drone bonuses, give it a hybrid damage bonus, let it have the 225m bay, maybe give it a mwd cap reduction so it's more like a thorax on steroids than a vexor on steroids.

    Aramendel
    Amarr
    Queens of the Stone Age
    Black Legion.
    Posted - 2006.10.29 13:49:00 - [387]
     

    Hail had it's speed penalitiy removed, welcome to the future.

    And all other tier 2 BCs can deal more dps than 5 heavies with the drone bonus with t1 ammo!

    Pattern Clarc
    Aperture Harmonics
    K162
    Posted - 2006.10.29 14:12:00 - [388]
     

    Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 29/10/2006 14:14:30
    Originally by: Futher Bezluden
    Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 29/10/2006 13:37:26
    Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 29/10/2006 13:35:43
    Originally by: Aramendel
    The myr should get 200-225 m dronebay, but no (read: zero) turretslots. Those won't be of much use anyway and will shut up people who whine about it's dps with 5 neutron blasters (nvmd it won't be able to fit them with a good tank, let alone get into range well with it's huge mass) and 5 ogre 2.

    225m drone bay, 2 less highs, 2 more low and no weaponports.


    T2 ammo has stacking penalties. Ever try a minmatar ac boat with hail? They almost move backwards and cap recharge rate skyrockets. I fly minmatar primarily and don't know about the other T2 ammo, but they all have a penalty that stack per turret loaded with it. T2 drones don't have a penalty of any kind other than "OMGWTF$"? All the T2 drones are faster and tougher than the T1. They may cost more but that is the only penalty incurred. They don't reduce the amount drained by nos/neutralizers Rolling Eyes .

    All who want the new gallente BC to have 225m drone bays just want a cheaper dominix and more uber vexor. As far as a "Damper" bonus... lmfao. Hell no, people are going to fit it with ewar anyway. No turrets? Rather silly there.

    Strip the drone bonuses, give it a hybrid damage bonus, let it have the 225m bay, maybe give it a mwd cap reduction so it's more like a thorax on steroids than a vexor on steroids.

    No t2 drone penaties?
    Have you ever tried buying t2 ogres or hammerheads?

    the t1 to t2 cost ratio is rediculas, far in excess of any other item beyond t2 cap rechargers

    Pattern Clarc
    Aperture Harmonics
    K162
    Posted - 2006.10.29 14:15:00 - [389]
     

    Originally by: Aramendel
    Hail had it's speed penalitiy removed, welcome to the future.

    And all other tier 2 BCs can deal more dps than 5 heavies with the drone bonus with t1 ammo!

    well said sir..

    Ceanthar Cerbera
    Minmatar
    Lone Gunmen
    Posted - 2006.10.29 14:19:00 - [390]
     

    Dont know if its been up but what if you were to make the Myrmidon able to field more drones? Keep the dronebay as it is but add a 1 extra drone per lvl. Then you dont have the "its the same as dominix but cant have extras" and a quite unique ship. Sure its the lag issue and all that but we now have carriers fielding up to 15 drones.

    Or make the move from cargohold possible so it is possible to reinforce lost heavy drones.


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