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Necronus
Amarr
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2006.11.10 13:05:00 - [541]
 

Originally by: Tricit
Edited by: Tricit on 10/11/2006 01:36:45
How about this?

Abbadon: 50% bonus to Laser Graphic size per level
-10% Large Energy Turret Grid need and Capacitor use per level

Hahahahah!


Cheers to "devastating laser beams"

Huh? :D

Capt Harlock
Hunters Agency
Firmus Ixion
Posted - 2006.11.10 13:28:00 - [542]
 

Abbadon I don't know why it can't be a specialized tracking disruptor ship. Does no one see this but me? Could be the amarr version of a scorp. As it stands it does the same as the ships the amarr already has. Would be cool for the minny to get a target painter BS and Gallente sensor dampner BS. Or BC versions. Does anyone at all see any merit in this idea?

Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
Posted - 2006.11.10 14:54:00 - [543]
 

Originally by: Capt Harlock
Abbadon I don't know why it can't be a specialized tracking disruptor ship. Does no one see this but me? Could be the amarr version of a scorp. As it stands it does the same as the ships the amarr already has. Would be cool for the minny to get a target painter BS and Gallente sensor dampner BS. Or BC versions. Does anyone at all see any merit in this idea?


Sure we do.. tho I would prefer a drone/tracking disruptor ship.. but even if we do .. The thing is, it has kinda been set in stone that all tier 3 BS will have 8 high slots and be rather shooting oriented.

To change that now would mean they would not come out now but prolly in kali 2/3 because of the many tests and balancing issues that would have to be redone..

Soratah
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2006.11.10 15:32:00 - [544]
 

Originally by: Keitaro Baka
Originally by: Capt Harlock
Abbadon I don't know why it can't be a specialized tracking disruptor ship. Does no one see this but me? Could be the amarr version of a scorp. As it stands it does the same as the ships the amarr already has. Would be cool for the minny to get a target painter BS and Gallente sensor dampner BS. Or BC versions. Does anyone at all see any merit in this idea?


Sure we do.. tho I would prefer a drone/tracking disruptor ship.. but even if we do .. The thing is, it has kinda been set in stone that all tier 3 BS will have 8 high slots and be rather shooting oriented.

To change that now would mean they would not come out now but prolly in kali 2/3 because of the many tests and balancing issues that would have to be redone..


You mean like how the Abaddon is balanced at the moment?
No, those ship setups seem to be subject to change. Some of the Tier 2 BCs have already undergone slot layout changing (myrmidon for example)
Only problem is that despite all the maths, suggestions, requests for a role change in these ships. We're getting cosmetic crap like grid juggling instead.

Zixxa
Posted - 2006.11.10 15:46:00 - [545]
 

Just for my curiosity.
What is so good with Rokh?
- No damage bonus. I.e. worst damage dealing BS in Eve history(except Raven and Scorpion, of course :) )
- Shield resist bonus. We do not need this bonus in fleet/big size battles at all. We rather do not need this bonus when sniping smth. (Most stupid bonus for BS after shield boosting bonus.)
- Distance bonus is cool, but do not overestimate it. Even after nerf t2 Rokh cannot beat t2 Mega.
- Rather difficult to fit because of low PG.
- sluggish.
- slow.
- no even reasonable drone bay to help against smaller ships
So, what cool in Rokh?

Ath Amon
Posted - 2006.11.10 15:57:00 - [546]
 

Originally by: Zixxa
Just for my curiosity.
What is so good with Rokh?
- No damage bonus. I.e. worst damage dealing BS in Eve history(except Raven and Scorpion, of course :) )
- Shield resist bonus. We do not need this bonus in fleet/big size battles at all. We rather do not need this bonus when sniping smth. (Most stupid bonus for BS after shield boosting bonus.)
- Distance bonus is cool, but do not overestimate it. Even after nerf t2 Rokh cannot beat t2 Mega.
- Rather difficult to fit because of low PG.
- sluggish.
- slow.
- no even reasonable drone bay to help against smaller ships
So, what cool in Rokh?


here what is cool

Etherios
Amarr
Evolution
KenZoku
Posted - 2006.11.10 15:58:00 - [547]
 

1st a ship that needs modules to fit the guns it needs to use has a problem even before u fit it.

2nd The abaddon is a gank or tank u cant do both (they say) ... i want someone to make a set up that gives the Abaddon enuf cap to kill ANY tier 3 bs... ANY ... before it runs out of cap. And of course be logical... 4 cap rechargers on meds isnt logical ...

3rd Amarr are slow hard hitters/tankers. Why try to change that? WHY try to figure out a use for a ship that cant do anything well? ECM Missiles etc this isnt Amarr and this isnt why this bs was created.

4th Its easy to make the abaddon, not better but playable atm. Change the RoF to damage and increase either the cap or the recharge rate so it can have close to the Armas cap usage. So it wont be a Cap monster like the Apoc but it will have enuf cap/recharge so that with say 1 cap module it can last for a while. So more damage slower and more cap to tank better not both at once tho. I dont want too much cap, i like it when i need to fit or do cap management to be able to fight, it gives more reality to the fight.

Last i want ppl to actually stop whinning and try to talk with the devs. There is no point in WHINNING this is a game ffs. If u dont like Amarr plz start training something else. I dont want to change the way i like to play eve because the new ships isnt what we wanted to be. SO i discuss it and try to figure a way to make it more BALANCED... if nothing happens well ill try to make the best out of it. PLZ stop the whinning (not Amarr only ofc) and try to communicate with the devs.... i fi was a dev i wouldnt listen to ppl whinning but i would try to make the game more balanced because the thousand other more logical ppl are trying to have FUN and not whine the most because they dont have the ship they like....


Wish kali brings more new things so we can all have more things to hope for and more things to see and do... TUX dont listen to the whine plz...

Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Clan Korval
Posted - 2006.11.10 16:48:00 - [548]
 

Originally by: Zixxa
Just for my curiosity.
What is so good with Rokh?
- No damage bonus. I.e. worst damage dealing BS in Eve history(except Raven and Scorpion, of course :) )
- Shield resist bonus. We do not need this bonus in fleet/big size battles at all. We rather do not need this bonus when sniping smth. (Most stupid bonus for BS after shield boosting bonus.)
- Distance bonus is cool, but do not overestimate it. Even after nerf t2 Rokh cannot beat t2 Mega.
- Rather difficult to fit because of low PG.
- sluggish.
- slow.
- no even reasonable drone bay to help against smaller ships
So, what cool in Rokh?


Lets see. The Rokh can fit 425x8, Sensor Boosters, Tracking Computers, and a passive shield tank, and low slots for damage and more sensor boosters.

It can take damage than any other LR sniper
It has a resist bonus to make the passive tank stronger
It has the longer range with T1 than T2 equiped opponents
It is meant to be a fleet ship, which Caldari did not have
It is not the worst damage dealing BS, the Apoc wins that one

So, what is so cool about the Rokh? It fills a void that the caldari had. Now they have a LR (the best LR) sniper ship in the game. I would suggest you go on SISI and play with the ship before you dis it.

There is something impressive about using AM ammo at 80km.


Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.11.10 17:14:00 - [549]
 

Originally by: Zixxa
Just for my curiosity.
What is so good with Rokh?
- No damage bonus. I.e. worst damage dealing BS in Eve history(except Raven and Scorpion, of course :) )
- Shield resist bonus. We do not need this bonus in fleet/big size battles at all. We rather do not need this bonus when sniping smth. (Most stupid bonus for BS after shield boosting bonus.)
- Distance bonus is cool, but do not overestimate it. Even after nerf t2 Rokh cannot beat t2 Mega.
- Rather difficult to fit because of low PG.
- sluggish.
- slow.
- no even reasonable drone bay to help against smaller ships
So, what cool in Rokh?


It is good because no other BS can hit it in fleets. It can optimal at 245 KM and just sit there while everyone else has to fly at least 30km in order to start pounding it.

That is a damage advantage in fleet situations. It is also a very strong passive tank

---

The Resist bonus is also good for passive tanks, the kind you want to fit in fleet battles, as well, this 25% bonus "shores up" the EM hole to an extent[makes it equivelent to thermal on most shield tanked ships without the bonus]

---

Distance bonus is a damage bonus because it allows you to fit shorter range ammo and hit at farther distances with it.

---

It is a fleet ship, and because it out ranges all the other fleet ships its one of, if not the best fleet ships.

Zixxa
Posted - 2006.11.10 18:08:00 - [550]
 

Originally by: Goumindong

It is good because no other BS can hit it in fleets. It can optimal at 245 KM and just sit there while everyone else has to fly at least 30km in order to start pounding it.

That is a damage advantage in fleet situations. It is also a very strong passive tank

In mixed fleet(and Rokh will be in mixed fleet nobody will care about distance Rokh can shot, everybody will shot from the fleet distance). So I missed point about usability loooong range in fleet battles.
It is NOT POSSIBLE to have STRONG PASSIVE tank(and at all tank) having sniping setup.
So choose one.

Quote:
The Resist bonus is also good for passive tanks, the kind you want to fit in fleet battles, as well, this 25% bonus "shores up" the EM hole to an extent[makes it equivelent to thermal on most shield tanked ships without the bonus]

Nope. It's only 20-25% HP on shields more. Only 20-25%. It is easy to achieve adding one invluln t1 to the fit(instead of MWD for example). It is irrelevant for fleet battles, btw.

Quote:
Distance bonus is a damage bonus because it allows you to fit shorter range ammo and hit at farther distances with it.

Nope. You may do this with t1 ammo, but not with t2.

Quote:
It is a fleet ship, and because it out ranges all the other fleet ships its one of, if not the best fleet ships.

Mega and Tempest have more dps than Rokh in the same fleet. Tempest has better alfa-strike. Mega has much better tracking. WHERE, FFS, ROKH is BEST?

Zixxa
Posted - 2006.11.10 18:16:00 - [551]
 

Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Originally by: Zixxa
Just for my curiosity.
What is so good with Rokh?
- No damage bonus. I.e. worst damage dealing BS in Eve history(except Raven and Scorpion, of course :) )
- Shield resist bonus. We do not need this bonus in fleet/big size battles at all. We rather do not need this bonus when sniping smth. (Most stupid bonus for BS after shield boosting bonus.)
- Distance bonus is cool, but do not overestimate it. Even after nerf t2 Rokh cannot beat t2 Mega.
- Rather difficult to fit because of low PG.
- sluggish.
- slow.
- no even reasonable drone bay to help against smaller ships
So, what cool in Rokh?


Lets see. The Rokh can fit 425x8, Sensor Boosters, Tracking Computers, and a passive shield tank, and low slots for damage and more sensor boosters.

Let's count.
med. MWD, 2 SB(we are going to hit from long range), 1 TComp. We have 2 free slots for passive tanking. What do you say about quality of the passive tank? S*****t or bull****?

Quote:
It has the longer range with T1 than T2 equiped opponents

Yes, I know. It is written in description.

Quote:
It is meant to be a fleet ship, which Caldari did not have

Above mentioned(long range) is not helpful in fleet battles.
Passive tanking, btw, is also useless.

Quote:
It is not the worst damage dealing BS, the Apoc wins that one

Really? I doubt...

Ath Amon
Posted - 2006.11.10 18:19:00 - [552]
 

Edited by: Ath Amon on 10/11/2006 18:20:04
tempest have more dps in fleet? you looked at the graph i posted?

and is not just 25% more hps due to res, the rokh probably will save 2-3 mods over other fleet ships and theis means another 6-10k more hps with 25% res on top of that...

rokh will be to other BS what tech2 ammos are now to tech1...

if you have a rokh fleet you win, if you have a mixed fleet you loose

Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Clan Korval
Posted - 2006.11.10 18:27:00 - [553]
 

Edited by: Miri Tirzan on 11/11/2006 11:10:56
Originally by: Zixxa

Let's count.
med. MWD, 2 SB(we are going to hit from long range), 1 TComp. We have 2 free slots for passive tanking. What do you say about quality of the passive tank? S*****t or bull****?


Why would you put a worthless MWD on a LR fleet ship for. That leaves 3 slots for a passive tank. One omni and 2 shield boosters.

Pretty much all I see is you trolling every thread with a whine about how Caldari have it so bad. You do realize you come across as clueless?

The Rokh is going to be a great ship. Most likely the main stay of fleet battles. It can do with cheap T1 what most ships cannot do with the best T2.




Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
Posted - 2006.11.10 19:16:00 - [554]
 

Originally by: Zixxa
In mixed fleet(and Rokh will be in mixed fleet nobody will care about distance Rokh can shot, everybody will shot from the fleet distance). So I missed point about usability loooong range in fleet battles.

This is where you are wrong.

I have yet to see an FC gangwarp a mixed-class fleet to the same range without cementing his reputation for being a nub.

Ships in mixed fleets are usually ordered to warp to their chosen optimals. Especially given the gang changes planned in Kali, there is every reason to believe that Rokhs will be deployed at their furthest optimal by means of a squad warp to covert. Goumindong is actually correct, in that if there is any possibility of this ship operating out of range of the bulk of an enemy fleet, that is how it will be used in long range battles.

Magnus Card
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.10 23:41:00 - [555]
 

Originally by: Sherpondeldey

ps: i want a new feature! transfere my projectile skills to hybrids. Maelstrom is the 2d worst battleship after typhoon. rokh with its current bonuses is definetely uber comparing to 3 other BSs


What if you used projectiles on the rohk instead of missiles? You could fit 6-8 and still have a massive tank.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.11.11 00:31:00 - [556]
 

Originally by: Zixxa

Let's count.
med. MWD, 2 SB(we are going to hit from long range), 1 TComp. We have 2 free slots for passive tanking. What do you say about quality of the passive tank? S*****t or bull****?




Why are we fitting an MWD and a Tracking computer?

Tracking computers become traching enhancers and sit in your low slots, they have the same range bonus as tracking computers.

In a fleet, where the Rokh is most likly to be used, the Rokh, is not going to be moving much under normal speed. It will warp to its optimal, and then allign to the warp out rondevous. When it comes through gates, it will allign to the warp out-roundevous. When it warps through gates, it will be gang-insta'd to a gate.

There is little actual movement needed, especialy since it can hit at 245 km.

This leave 4 slots for a passive tank, and all of the lows can be used to increase damage/range. Probably 1 tracking/4 damage[2 tracking/3 damage]? I dont know, depends on how many tracking mods you need to get out to your desired optimal.

Quote:

Above mentioned(long range) is not helpful in fleet battles.
Passive tanking, btw, is also useless.


No, passive tanking is the most important type of tanking in fleets. This is because it increases how long you live by the longest amount.

This is because without a passive tank, you will not be expected to live more than a few seconds after you have been shot at, meaning that you do not have time to run your reppers, you only have time to warp out if you are alligned.

Passive tanks increase the time you will live by increasing your shield or armor size more than you can rep before you die. Typically it takes a couple cycles to make up the difference. In fleet battles, since you dont have time to run a couple cycles, straight up HP/resistances is the way to go.

Zixxa
Posted - 2006.11.11 09:41:00 - [557]
 

Originally by: Ath Amon
Edited by: Ath Amon on 10/11/2006 18:20:04
tempest have more dps in fleet? you looked at the graph i posted?

Your graph is false. Sorry. Period.

Zixxa
Posted - 2006.11.11 09:45:00 - [558]
 

Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Originally by: Zixxa
Let's count.
med. MWD, 2 SB(we are going to hit from long range), 1 TComp. We have 2 free slots for passive tanking. What do you say about quality of the passive tank? S*****t or bull****?[/quote



Why would you put a worthless MWD on a LR fleet ship for. That leaves 3 slots for a passive tank. One omni and 2 shield boosters.

MWD is must in regular fleet battle.



Quote:
Pretty much all I see is you trolling every thread with a whine about how Caldari have it so bad. You do realize you come across as clueless?

Excuse me, but where do you see whining? I ask why Rokh is good. I didn't get answer.

Quote:
The Rokh is going to be a great ship. Most likely the main stay of fleet battles. It can do with cheap T1 what most ships cannot do with the best T2.

Yes, yes. With lowest dps, laughful alfa-strike and both useless bonuses for fleet it will be real main stay of the fleet.
I hope you are right, because I am going to train rails, but I do not see how Rokh may be more useful even than Mega.



Zixxa
Posted - 2006.11.11 09:47:00 - [559]
 

Originally by: Cmdr Sy

Ships in mixed fleets are usually ordered to warp to their chosen optimals. Especially given the gang changes planned in Kali, there is every reason to believe that Rokhs will be deployed at their furthest optimal by means of a squad warp to covert.

First less or more reasonable answer on my question. Many thanks.

Zixxa
Posted - 2006.11.11 10:01:00 - [560]
 

Originally by: Goumindong

Why are we fitting an MWD and a Tracking computer?

Because it is fleet. MWD is must, distance is must, tracking is also required.

Quote:
Tracking computers become traching enhancers and sit in your low slots, they have the same range bonus as tracking computers.

Yes, you are right here. We may have one additional free med slot, if replace comp on enhahcer. Good correction, thank you.

Quote:
There is little actual movement needed, especialy since it can hit at 245 km.

245 km means a LOTS of enhancers. Three, I think in Kali(and add fitting mod). It means no DC in LOW and only 1(one) damage mod, consequently we have even more laughful dps.

Quote:
This leave 4 slots for a passive tank, and all of the lows can be used to increase damage/range.

3 slots. MWD is just MUST be present.

Quote:
Probably 1 tracking/4 damage[2 tracking/3 damage]? I dont know, depends on how many tracking mods you need to get out to your desired optimal.

Where is your Damage Control? It is quite helpful for passive tanking!
And where is your RCU/PDS? How are you going to put 8 425 t2 without fitting module? Even 8 425 t2. It is impossible. And what about must have MWD?

Quote:

No, passive tanking is the most important type of tanking in fleets. This is because it increases how long you live by the longest amount.

You are wrong. In fleet battle every ship lives until locked. Imediately after lock it is destroyed. So passive tanking is most useless feature for the fleet BS(also shield boost and arm rep bonus are useless too).

Zixxa
Posted - 2006.11.11 10:17:00 - [561]
 

Juts FYI, guys. Most important thing in fleet battles is alfa strike.
And Rokh alfa strike is worse than Mega, Tempest, Apoc.

Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Clan Korval
Posted - 2006.11.11 11:09:00 - [562]
 

Z, you don't post facts but just opinions. You call everyone a liar that does post facts. I believe the word for you is troll and look forward to you getting banned for doing nothing but trolling.

As for MWD, I have never seen a LR fleet battle that requires an MWD. You warp in, align, and lock and fire on the targets called out by the FC. What is the MWD for? All it does is reduce your cap and shields.


Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.11.11 11:09:00 - [563]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 11/11/2006 11:13:14
Originally by: Zixxa

Because it is fleet. MWD is must, distance is must, tracking is also required.



OK. I have shown how it is very easy to avoid using an MWD in a fleet. Now, you can tell me how an MWD is a nessesity.

What do you need a MWD for in a fleet?
Quote:

245 km means a LOTS of enhancers. Three, I think in Kali(and add fitting mod). It means no DC in LOW and only 1(one) damage mod, consequently we have even more laughful dps.



With Carbonized Lead, you hit 230 KM optimal with 2 Tracking Enhancer II's. Much better than anything anyone else is offering. With Spike[Kali version], you hit 251km optimal with 2 TE II's, and 225 with 1 TE II. So no, it really isnt "a lot" of tracking enhancers.

Quote:

3 slots. MWD is just MUST be present.
Again, you continue to fail to explain why you need an MWD.

Quote:

Where is your Damage Control? It is quite helpful for passive tanking!
And where is your RCU/PDS? How are you going to put 8 425 t2 without fitting module? Even 8 425 t2. It is impossible. And what about must have MWD?
yup, forgot the RCU/PDS. Didnt forget the MWD, you dont need it. Dont need the DC either, its handy, but its not as essenial as shield hardeners/extenders. If you want, you can fit 1 TE, 2 Damage, 1 PDS, 1 DC. And you will hit at 225km. You would be better fitting 2 TE, 2 Damage, 1 PDS and then leaving your DC somewhere else, becasue any ship is going to have to fly 40 kilometers before it can hit you.

Quote:

You are wrong. In fleet battle every ship lives until locked. Imediately after lock it is destroyed. So passive tanking is most useless feature for the fleet BS(also shield boost and arm rep bonus are useless too).


This is simply untrue. Every extra ship that is required to activate on the primary target is another ship that cannot immediatly start to activate on the secondary target. If you are able to make yourself have double your effective armor, this will outweigh a 50% damage boost in terms of relative damage per second by about 33%. A fleet that fits tank over gank will win over an equal fleet fitting gank over tank because their relative DPS will be higher.

E.G.

Ship 1: Deals 1 dps, Takes 1/2 damage
Ship 2: Deals 1.5 DPS, takes full Damage.

Ship 1 shoots Ship 2, Ship 2 shoots ship 1. Ship 1 deals 1 damage to ship 2, Ship 2 deals 75% damage to ship 1. In real damage, Ship 1 outdamages ship 2 by 33%.

Because damage comes in so fast in a fleet situation, passive tanking is the only effective tanking as you dont have time to get a rep/boost off and is more beneficial for the fleet until a specific point of stacking penalty[which i dont care to calculate] than damage.

Originally by: Zixxa
Juts FYI, guys. Most important thing in fleet battles is alfa strike.
And Rokh alfa strike is worse than Mega, Tempest, Apoc.


Not nessesarily. A high alpha strike will reduce the number of ships that you need in order to kill your main target. However, if you dont kill it in one shot, or have enough power to kill it in one shot, then recycle time is also very important, because it allows you to swtich targets faster and engage them without waiting for your weapons to be ready.

As fleets get bigger, pure adjusted DPS is what really matters as those difference equalize out over time.


Edit: You cannot complain that your damage is weak in fleets and also assert that tanking is useless, they counteract the others, if passive tanking is useless then DPS is as well because you have so many ships, it just wouldnt matter.

Tank and DPS both matter in fleet battles, that is why ships fit for range[so they take less damage than their opponent] in fleets, and that is why fleets fit passive tanks, and that is why fleets fit damage modifiers.

Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2006.11.11 11:39:00 - [564]
 

I advice an immediate stop to all replies to Zixxa. His input derails and destroys the discussion, consider him flamebait until such time as he provides logical arguments, KALI discussion, and mathematically verifiable proof of his claims

Can someone please salvage where the discussion was before the multitude of erroneous input was injected, or pick up a new point of discussion.

murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2006.11.11 11:47:00 - [565]
 

Originally by: Ithildin
I advice an immediate stop to all replies to Zixxa. His input derails and destroys the discussion, consider him flamebait until such time as he provides logical arguments, KALI discussion, and mathematically verifiable proof of his claims

Can someone please salvage where the discussion was before the multitude of erroneous input was injected, or pick up a new point of discussion.


/agreed.

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2006.11.11 11:51:00 - [566]
 

Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 11/11/2006 11:55:58
Maybe we all should report Zixxa for ranting/trolling? This is not the first thread he derails with his crap, and probably not the last either if noone stops him.

Just to point out HOW clueless the guy is:

Originally by: Zixxa
Nope. It's only 20-25% HP on shields more. Only 20-25%. It is easy to achieve adding one invluln t1 to the fit(instead of MWD for example). It is irrelevant for fleet battles, btw.


A 25% resistance increase equals a 33% HP increase, not 25%.
He is just as wrong on 99% of his other issues.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.11.11 11:54:00 - [567]
 

I believe we were talking about how awesome the Rokh is, how great it is for a real fleet BS for Caldari, how repititve the Maelstron, Hyperion, and Abaddon seem, how the Maelstrom will make a pretty good shield tanked AC boat, and how absolutly useless the Abaddon is unless it fits projectiles or four+ NOS's[and projectiles].

Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Clan Korval
Posted - 2006.11.11 12:23:00 - [568]
 

Edited by: Miri Tirzan on 11/11/2006 12:24:49
Originally by: Goumindong
I believe we were talking about how awesome the Rokh is, how great it is for a real fleet BS for Caldari, how repititve the Maelstron, Hyperion, and Abaddon seem, how the Maelstrom will make a pretty good shield tanked AC boat, and how absolutly useless the Abaddon is unless it fits projectiles or four+ NOS's[and projectiles].


I believe your right. It pretty much comes down to the Caldari got a good fleet ship. Everyone else got a ship that does not add anything above what they already have, and in most cases is worse than what they already have. From what I have gleamed and some testing on SISI:

Amarr - not enough cap to either tank or gank
Gal - A blaster boat without tracking bonus, need I say more?
Minnie - An artillery boat that would do better as a AC (now this is not first hand since I dont fly minnie)

Overall, the stealth cap nerf hurts the gal and amarr. The stealth alpha nerf hurts the minnies.

The gist seems to be, every race not caldari got more of the same only worse and the cal got a much needed fleet ship. The other races would like the Dev's to not give poor designs to them and round out their ship offerings. Namely:

Amarr - add either a drone or EW BS
Gal - give the ship some blaster type bonuses (tracking/damage) RoF sucks with cap nerf
Minnie - I have read the posts but not sure what they want done with thier ship

I think that gets up back up to where we were.

Aphotic Raven
Gallente
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.11.11 12:28:00 - [569]
 

Hey did i not read in a dev blog and watch a video interview in which the devs said that they were looking at bringing fights, especially fleets "closer together" and talking about getting the love on up close and such... i really dont see how introducing some crappy sniping ships, and boosting caldari a bunch will have any use at all...

Really do we need more rail/arty/laser long range **** going on?

Now the ferox seems to be one ship that actually can passive tank pretty well, the way people talk about the rokh makes it seem like a big ferox
(i like the progression at least, what is it caracal>drake>raven, moa>ferox>rokh, blackbird>lol?>scorp?)
but imagine with the new crazy ammounts of shield and armour out there... cap is going to be a larger problem for sure if you need to boost/rep/maintain ****ty lasers...

could the rokh maintain passive tank long enough to **** another BS with cap neuts and guns/missles?
Im not well versed in the caldari ways clearly, but i know that a passive BS scares the **** out me in my NOS based dominix.... killing someone else's cap makes up for my crap damage, if they dont need their cap, and i cant use them to rep myself, im pretty boned... and i'll still last longer than the amarr guys....

Please discuss. is this a possibility?
(Caldari suck. You're the ****s of the storyline you know.)
So

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.11.11 12:57:00 - [570]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 11/11/2006 13:08:06
I am not sure the issue with a blaster boat that doesnt have a tracking bonus.

Blasters have the best tracking of any close range weapon to start with by a sifinicant amount.

Everyone running a blaster ship is going to web whatever they are shooting at anyway.

It will make a difference when shooting at frigs and cruisers, but not much against anything else aside from range with null[still much better than lasers at that range though, even without a tracking bonus, worse than AC's though].

Amarr arent made useless due to a tracking penalty [50% on conflag combined with 60% of the tracking of blasters], so im not really sure why a blasterboat, which will have more tracking than the laserboat is going to be obsolete from it.


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