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Logan Xerxes
Xerxes Security
Posted - 2006.11.04 12:57:00 - [391]
 

Edited by: Logan Xerxes on 04/11/2006 12:58:35
Having flown the Rokh on the Test server, I can confirm it's not overpowered. You end up using most of your cap not on your shields but on your guns, especially if you have AM loaded. Which you have to load if you want to do any sort of decent damage. And as I have pointed out plenty of times before, the Mega WILL out damage the Rokh below 60km. This thing is definitely a fleet ship, not a skirmisher.

Edit: this isn't a "whaa boost!" post. I Think the ship is overall quite balanced.

Alexi Borizkova
Caldari
New Age Solutions
The Laughing Men
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:41:00 - [392]
 

Just for completeness' sake I will comment here on the ships I have flown and tested.

Rokh- Great overall balance, it's inherently tough shields(great universal resists with reasonable fitting, 23hp/s passive regen stock with my skills) balances the fact that you can't give it the cap it needs to run the guns and tank as well as you like and see on other battleships, because with the cap to do both "meh, okay" it can choose to tank so well not even the gods can stop it. It leaves me wanting it to be more, while still making me very happy. Which is a good sign.

Hyperion- the armor rep bonus is really something of a joke, either make it a slow supertanking rail platform and make the mega a blaster boat, or give this ship a couple less turret hards, a tracking bonus instead of a tank amount, and a role bonus MWD bonus ala vindicator. If it goes fast enough for speed to matter it can't hit where the thorax can, and if it goes too slow the ship isn't designed to tank THAT well.

Abaddon- Maybe it is because amarr is secondary to me, but I just couldn't make this ship do anything well. I'd like to see it get 3-4 missile hards, an expanded dronebay, and perhaps change the turret ROF bonus to an armor rep amount bonus, or a bonus to any lowslot items as was suggested earlier, which I think is brilliant. Give the amarr a versatile ship able to throw the enemy a curveball.


Reto
The Last Resort
Posted - 2006.11.04 13:54:00 - [393]
 

Originally by: Alexi Borizkova
Just for completeness' sake I will comment here on the ships I have flown and tested.

Rokh- Great overall balance, it's inherently tough shields(great universal resists with reasonable fitting, 23hp/s passive regen stock with my skills) balances the fact that you can't give it the cap it needs to run the guns and tank as well as you like and see on other battleships, because with the cap to do both "meh, okay" it can choose to tank so well not even the gods can stop it. It leaves me wanting it to be more, while still making me very happy. Which is a good sign.

Hyperion- the armor rep bonus is really something of a joke, either make it a slow supertanking rail platform and make the mega a blaster boat, or give this ship a couple less turret hards, a tracking bonus instead of a tank amount, and a role bonus MWD bonus ala vindicator. If it goes fast enough for speed to matter it can't hit where the thorax can, and if it goes too slow the ship isn't designed to tank THAT well.

Abaddon- Maybe it is because amarr is secondary to me, but I just couldn't make this ship do anything well. I'd like to see it get 3-4 missile hards, an expanded dronebay, and perhaps change the turret ROF bonus to an armor rep amount bonus, or a bonus to any lowslot items as was suggested earlier, which I think is brilliant. Give the amarr a versatile ship able to throw the enemy a curveball.




u know if u mwding u receive a load of dmg in battle with a blastership. the brutix has its rep bonus not without a reason. so does the hyperion. on the otherhand every tier 3 bs has a rep bonus, why make hyperion an exception ?

Gragnor
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.11.04 14:08:00 - [394]
 

The real problem I have with being a Minmitar Tragic is this;

The Typhoon remains unbalanced. Three weapon systems is a big no-no. Make it to 6 siege launchers and drones plus an armor tank - make is a small roaming gank-squad specialist that is non gun specialised. No bonus changes just more launchers. Now there is competition with the Raven. CHOICE!

The Tempest is a versatile gunboat. Change nothing. It can be a fleet ship or a autopest. It is just about right. Perhaps give it one more turret but that's it.

The Maelstrom concept is fine - a shield tanking fleet artillery boat. So why introduce a design more suited to autocannons? I am really concerned that all the suggestions in these forums will be ignored.

Minmitar had alpha strike - which has just been nerfed. We had range, which thanks to the t2 ammo nerf has been reduced. What now? What design and operational concept is left for Minmitar ships? The desperate desire to prolong combat is the exact opposite of how Minmitar ships work in fleet actions. So how do you conceptually deal with this?

Enough whinging; conceptually, this ship reminds me of the old monitor class ships of the early 20th century. Monitors were big, slow tubs which were used to smash shore defences with very long range artillery bombardments.

Adopting this philosophy for the Maelstrom indicates that the suggested 10% shield hit points increase per bs level is the tankability aspect. Leave the shield recharge rate as it is, making the shield tank a passive thing of beauty.

Make the ship the slowest thing around. Its a tub remember, not a gunboat like the Tempest. This removes the temptation to mount autocannons, but who cares, its a fleet boat.

Artillery is death at a distance. It should be one shot , one kill but that's now impossible. Make it the same range as the Rokh , so there is now a clear choice, Minmitar v Caldari. That's right; choice! This is a artillery boat, so FALLOFF is king. Give it a fall off bonus. Not an optimal bonus.

Ammo. Use the damage aspect associated with t2 Tremor Ammo/t1 carbonised lead to deal with damage. Arty is alpha strike but dps is being made king. I suggest reviewing ammo to adjust for damage and rof.

Whatever happens, the game developers MUST review this ship otherwise they are really crimping this race for fleet actions. The balance here is to use the ammo as key differentiator, with it having a damage and rof effect that matches the Rokh.

On another point, the game thrives on variety yet the designers are deliberately destroying variety. Unless they are careful, we may as well train Caldari as they have the most balanced and considered character ship path.

This is a valid criticism of CCP. Kali has been coming for months, yet these obvious problems do not appear to have been well considered. How come that happened?

Butter Dog
Gallente
The Monocled Elite
Posted - 2006.11.04 15:02:00 - [395]
 

hehe

well i just found out that a 4 nos / 4 electron / triple rep hype is kinda fun and a very tough nut to cr.ack

strange setups ftw

Ihar Enda
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2006.11.04 16:01:00 - [396]
 

Originally by: Ithildin
The problem remains the same as before with two of these ships, as I and several others have highlighted ever since their concepts became known:
* Hyperion tries to do the same thing as Megathron - BAD design.
* Abaddon tries to do the same thing as Armageddon and Apocalypse - BAD design.


Agreed. These ships need a specific role, that existing ships do not fill.
Personally, I'd make Hyperion a rail platform, and then maybe slightly tweak Mega to make it a bit faster / more agile. As it stands now, Mega is a better blaster ship anyway.

Ather Ialeas
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2006.11.04 16:28:00 - [397]
 

Speaking of unique role for Abaddon, I'd still like to see +10% range and +7.5% dmg to smartbombs on it. I've done the math with old info and if anyone wants I can re-do the math but IIRC those were the values that make Abaddon a "tank until shoot" kind of a ship. Main purpose would be of course sitting at gates stopping pesky frigate gangs.

Oh well, one can dream...

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2006.11.04 18:37:00 - [398]
 

Originally by: Gragnor

The Maelstrom concept is fine - a shield tanking fleet artillery boat. So why introduce a design more suited to autocannons? I am really concerned that all the suggestions in these forums will be ignored.



I think it will be ignored, but not because the devs are ebil. Its because they still feel that the current bonuses are better than the ones suggested.

Now in Kali with the extra hitpoints, the alpha strike will be laughed at. Its unavoidable. I mean, ships get about 100% more hitpoints depending on number of shield extenders etc. How do you compensate for that in alpha strikes without making it overpowered or meaningless? You dont. So my guess is they make artillery like railguns.

But seriously, they should make the ship into a bigger Hurricane. Everybody loves that ship. I havent heard anybody dislike it. Its perfection because its focused on one role and it does it well. Thats how you make a good ship. You dont put random bonuses and slots on it and say "versatile".

I would design the Maelstrom into a fast, armor tanking autocannon boat, which is basicly the complete opposite what it currently is. Oh well, ill stick to the Hurricane and the command ships.

Zarch AlDain
GK inc.
Posted - 2006.11.04 19:30:00 - [399]
 

I had an interesting idea for the minmatar ships...

...after all they are supposed to be versatile - but split slot layouts are weak, not versatile.

So instead give them overlapping hardpoint numbers and dual-use bonusses.

i.e. 8 high slots, 6 turret, 6 launcher hardpoints. 4% bonus to rate of fire of projectiles and launchers.

Now you can mix and match turrets and launchers without losing your bonus, tweak whichever way you want. A truely versatile ship.

If you want to take that further then give it 6 low and 6 mid - and give it a 5% rep bonus to both shield and armour.

Now try to predict what that beauty is gonna throw at you!

A truely versatile ship, while at the same time not being ultra-uber at any one thing (as it gets lower bonusses, but applicable to more things).

Lindsey
Posted - 2006.11.04 19:49:00 - [400]
 

The ab shud imo get sum dronage luvin' or at least give it summat different than the poc. Atm there is nothin to really distinguish the 2 .



Brother Todd
Posted - 2006.11.04 20:56:00 - [401]
 

The Abaddon in it's current form is barely useful, and only in a handfull of situations. As stated many times before it is just a bastard ship, nothing new really.

My solution: Make the Abaddon a NOS-boat. Give it a nos/neutralizer bonus (10% like the Bhaalghorn) and a laser cap bonus. Reduce it's grid slightly and give it extra CPU, slot layout 8-4-7 or 8-3-8 would both fit it's role. The ship would be a mean tanker with low damage output, giving it a damage or resist bonus with the drain bonus would probably be too much.

Give that resist bonus to the Apoc, it really needs it.

Vito Parabellum
Fivrelde Corp
Posted - 2006.11.04 21:04:00 - [402]
 

Tried AC abaddon and it performed exceedingly well, fought a blaster mega, blaster hyp, rokh and... a pulse/nos abaddon. It just kicked ass, in a slow fashion as you could fire guns while having 0 (nosable) cap, and a tank of a god.

Then I tried the tachyon abaddon with 4 tracking modules and 4 heatsinks. With the tech 2 ammo Gleam. Before you had a range of about 45kms with this setup, now its down to 20kms. And this with penalties like crappier tracking speed and very low shields.
Although I feel that ranges of 200+ with the long range t2 ammo could be nerfed there was absolutely no need nerfing the short range ammo to the point of uselessness.
Im happy I dont have that bpo heh.

Results with the tachy abaddon? High dps but it didn't manage to take half the armor of a tanking blaster mega (standing perfectly still) before the guns shut down.

Now of course you can fit it with rigs and cap boosters to maybe make it shoot long enough to break the tank and pop the ship, but really why wouldnt you just use a much cheaper geddon and do exactly the same without the hassle?

My conclusions are that the AC abaddon is the king of close range combat, you are silly if you use gleam over multifrequencies, you are silly if you use tachyons on a abaddon instead of a geddon, and that a pulse abaddon will perish to an AC abaddon.

My fix... change rof to damage bonus and you have a less stupid ship. Don't think it will fix much though, I would still fit AC's close range and use my geddon long range.

Azerrad InExile
Posted - 2006.11.04 22:12:00 - [403]
 

Made these for a different thread, but figured someone might find them useful here as well:

Damage/Range comparison for T2 Snipers in Kali
Damage/Range comparison for short range ships in Kali
Damage/Range comparison for mid range shis in Kali
(mid range being defined as using long range weapons without tracking computers, fairly arbitrary definition admittedly, but it might be useful to someone)

Rip them to shreds at your leisure.

Gragnor
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.11.04 23:31:00 - [404]
 

Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Made these for a different thread, but figured someone might find them useful here as well:

Damage/Range comparison for T2 Snipers in Kali
Damage/Range comparison for short range ships in Kali
Damage/Range comparison for mid range shis in Kali
(mid range being defined as using long range weapons without tracking computers, fairly arbitrary definition admittedly, but it might be useful to someone)

Rip them to shreds at your leisure.


There are lies, damn lies and statistics. But on the basis of this; Minmitar ships have been nerfed out of the fleet game. They have gone from l33t to very much also ran. Perhaps that's what CCP wants. All I know is I have gone from being the best to being the 3rd or 4th best and I am not happy about it, given the MONTHS of training time it took me to get where I am.

stainage
Gallente
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.04 23:41:00 - [405]
 

What i find funny if how CCP have made the new Gal bs a better rail boat than the Mega but that it seems completly useless as a blasterboat compared to the Mega.
I think you got something a little wrong here ccp and please change it. the problem i found was the lack of low slots on the hyperion... rep bonus means it needs two reps...that means 3 hardener to help keep this up as you do with all dual rep setups...and then as most blaster ships you need a damage control......so wheres my damage mods....8x electron blasters suck a little especially with no damage mods. then you think o well im sure i can last long enough cause as I'm in a gal ship i have a 5 heavy drone capable drone bay...no wait i don't but yet the geddon does :S. Please fix this CCP.

Ath Amon
Posted - 2006.11.05 00:41:00 - [406]
 

Edited by: Ath Amon on 05/11/2006 00:44:00
about arty and rails here a little comparsion Razz

neutron vs 425mm ac
pros
  • dps
cons
  • fitting
  • cap usage
  • range
equal
  • tracking
ininfluential
  • alpha

1400mm vs 425mm rails
pros
cons
  • dps
  • fitting
  • range
  • tracking
equal
ininfluential
  • alpha
  • cap usage

note: put alpha in ininfluential after the hps boost, before it had it use... cap usage is ininfluential in long range for these guns as the cap consumption is very low in a sniping/fleet scenario

seem balanced? Razz

Paladineguru
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.11.05 06:38:00 - [407]
 

hyperion needs a pg boost and another low slot
that or jsut somehting to make it even half way useful , the mega is a better ship for both roles

that or make the hype a missle boat in line with other gal mixed weapons load ships like the tristan, ares, celestis, eris, and megathron

gallente use missles too on 1/3 of thier ships no reason not to continue that

Lirt
Ceratias Holboelli
Posted - 2006.11.05 09:22:00 - [408]
 

Edited by: Lirt on 05/11/2006 09:22:50
Just tested the Rokh and im wondering why when its a fleet ship you have to fit pg mods in order to fit 8 425s t2, even with advanced weapon upgrades 5?
It makes the whole idea fall apart, Rokh really needs a bit more pg so when you have awu 5 to be able to fit 8 turrets without pg mods. Otherwise why we even train these skills when we end up with 'help' mods anyway. Confused

Azerrad InExile
Posted - 2006.11.05 11:02:00 - [409]
 

Originally by: Lirt
Edited by: Lirt on 05/11/2006 09:22:50
Just tested the Rokh and im wondering why when its a fleet ship you have to fit pg mods in order to fit 8 425s t2, even with advanced weapon upgrades 5?
It makes the whole idea fall apart, Rokh really needs a bit more pg so when you have awu 5 to be able to fit 8 turrets without pg mods. Otherwise why we even train these skills when we end up with 'help' mods anyway. Confused


Tempest (19375 PG) - 6x1400 2 (20287.8 PG) = -912.8 PG
Maelstrom (26250 PG) - 8x1400 2 (25740 PG) = 510 PG

Megathron (19375 PG) - 7x425 2 (16537.5 PG) = 2837.5 PG

Apocalypse (24375 PG) - 8xMegabeam 2 (25740 PG) = -1365 PG
Apocalypse (24375 PG) - 8xTachyon 2 (29700 PG) = -5325 PG
Armageddon (20625 PG) - 7xMegabeam 2 (22522.5 PG) = -1897.5 PG
Armageddon (20625 PG) - 7xTachyon 2 (25987.5) = -5362.5
Abaddon (26250 PG) - 8xMegabeam 2 (25740 PG) = 510 PG
Abaddon (26250 PG) - 8xTachyon 2 (29700 PG) = -3450 PG

Rokh (18750 PG) - 8x425 2 (18900 PG) = -150 PG

So only the Megathron, Mealstrom and Abaddon when using Megabeams can fit all their guns without requiring a fitting mod. Of those the Megathron is the only one with enough grid left to fit the rest of the ship, but it has an empty high slot which isn't taken into account. Of the ships that need fitting mods to fit all their guns, the Rokh is by far in the best condition since it is only a measly 150 grid short while the others are anywhere form 900 (with 2 empty high slots) to 5000 grid short.

Seems like the Rokh has it pretty well off if you ask me, but if you are going to boost the Rokh grid, be sure to boost the Tempest's, Apocalypse's, Armageddon's and Abaddon's grid while your at it. After all they have to suffer the shame of using a fitting mod as well. Not to mention that the Rokh can probably get away with 2x PDU IIs, and we know how much those gimp shield tanks.... Oh, wait a minute...

Lunas Feelgood
S.A.S
Posted - 2006.11.05 11:12:00 - [410]
 

Hyperion new fleet rail bs in kaliTwisted EvilTwisted Evil

Alpha strikes 4TW..

Blasters?? you joking right

Btw I thought I read somewhere that the hyperion was a dedicated blasterboat, I could be wrong

Lirt
Ceratias Holboelli
Posted - 2006.11.05 11:36:00 - [411]
 

Edited by: Lirt on 05/11/2006 11:38:03
Originally by: Azerrad InExile

Tempest (19375 PG) - 6x1400 2 (20287.8 PG) = -912.8 PG
Maelstrom (26250 PG) - 8x1400 2 (25740 PG) = 510 PG

Megathron (19375 PG) - 7x425 2 (16537.5 PG) = 2837.5 PG

Apocalypse (24375 PG) - 8xMegabeam 2 (25740 PG) = -1365 PG
Apocalypse (24375 PG) - 8xTachyon 2 (29700 PG) = -5325 PG
Armageddon (20625 PG) - 7xMegabeam 2 (22522.5 PG) = -1897.5 PG
Armageddon (20625 PG) - 7xTachyon 2 (25987.5) = -5362.5
Abaddon (26250 PG) - 8xMegabeam 2 (25740 PG) = 510 PG
Abaddon (26250 PG) - 8xTachyon 2 (29700 PG) = -3450 PG

Rokh (18750 PG) - 8x425 2 (18900 PG) = -150 PG

So only the Megathron, Mealstrom and Abaddon when using Megabeams can fit all their guns without requiring a fitting mod. Of those the Megathron is the only one with enough grid left to fit the rest of the ship, but it has an empty high slot which isn't taken into account. Of the ships that need fitting mods to fit all their guns, the Rokh is by far in the best condition since it is only a measly 150 grid short while the others are anywhere form 900 (with 2 empty high slots) to 5000 grid short.

Seems like the Rokh has it pretty well off if you ask me, but if you are going to boost the Rokh grid, be sure to boost the Tempest's, Apocalypse's, Armageddon's and Abaddon's grid while your at it. After all they have to suffer the shame of using a fitting mod as well. Not to mention that the Rokh can probably get away with 2x PDU IIs, and we know how much those gimp shield tanks.... Oh, wait a minute...


Im fine with that, boost the other ships pg too if they cant fit 8 turrets with max skills. By the way im talking about the tier 3 BSs dont tell me about the tier 1 and 2, those are now like that and i doubt they will be changed soon, or at all.
But saying the Rokh only needs 150 pg while others need more is wrong cause when i fit the pdu i get not only 150 pg but more and the others will too, maybe i get eventually some spare pg while others are full but whats the point if i wont use it.
My argument is that having max skills and not be able to fit the ship its max turrets makes the skills useless. Why get awu 5 when you will still need pg mods. Yes you will get a little more pg but it doesnt worth the whole effort cause the pdu or the rc will give that to you anyway with or without awu 5.
And dont tell me about pdus shield boost, its not that great, yes maybe it increases it but i dont want it to be a MUST for the ship in order to get full damage.

Ihar Enda
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2006.11.05 11:45:00 - [412]
 

Originally by: Lunas Feelgood
Hyperion new fleet rail bs in kaliTwisted EvilTwisted Evil

Alpha strikes 4TW..

Blasters?? you joking right

Btw I thought I read somewhere that the hyperion was a dedicated blasterboat, I could be wrong


That was the plan. Rolling Eyes Of course as it is now, mega is clearly a better blaster ship. Just change hyperion into a sniper boat, or a dampener boat, so it has a clearly defined role. Right now it's a sorry a$$ excuse for a megathron. Mega does everything hyperion can, only better.

Talostan Gurt
Sons Of Amun
Posted - 2006.11.05 13:53:00 - [413]
 

Well what can I say. The Amarr T3 bs sucks so hard i dont know why i am amarr. The cap useage is pants and most ppl are fitting auto cannons on for godsake. Amarr are energy weapons not poxy AC's.

Very very very disapointed. Soon to take out my fleet fitted geddon to see how teh T3 bs (and i mean bs as in B*******) can handle it.

Poor show CCP hope something drastic happens b4 the mighty Kali is released........................ughughugh

Logan Xerxes
Xerxes Security
Posted - 2006.11.05 14:11:00 - [414]
 

Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Lirt
Edited by: Lirt on 05/11/2006 09:22:50
Just tested the Rokh and im wondering why when its a fleet ship you have to fit pg mods in order to fit 8 425s t2, even with advanced weapon upgrades 5?
It makes the whole idea fall apart, Rokh really needs a bit more pg so when you have awu 5 to be able to fit 8 turrets without pg mods. Otherwise why we even train these skills when we end up with 'help' mods anyway. Confused


Tempest (19375 PG) - 6x1400 2 (20287.8 PG) = -912.8 PG
Maelstrom (26250 PG) - 8x1400 2 (25740 PG) = 510 PG

Megathron (19375 PG) - 7x425 2 (16537.5 PG) = 2837.5 PG


Apocalypse (24375 PG) - 8xMegabeam 2 (25740 PG) = -1365 PG
Apocalypse (24375 PG) - 8xTachyon 2 (29700 PG) = -5325 PG
Armageddon (20625 PG) - 7xMegabeam 2 (22522.5 PG) = -1897.5 PG
Armageddon (20625 PG) - 7xTachyon 2 (25987.5) = -5362.5
Abaddon (26250 PG) - 8xMegabeam 2 (25740 PG) = 510 PG
Abaddon (26250 PG) - 8xTachyon 2 (29700 PG) = -3450 PG

Rokh (18750 PG) - 8x425 2 (18900 PG) = -150 PG

So only the Megathron, Mealstrom and Abaddon when using Megabeams can fit all their guns without requiring a fitting mod. Of those the Megathron is the only one with enough grid left to fit the rest of the ship, but it has an empty high slot which isn't taken into account. Of the ships that need fitting mods to fit all their guns, the Rokh is by far in the best condition since it is only a measly 150 grid short while the others are anywhere form 900 (with 2 empty high slots) to 5000 grid short.

Seems like the Rokh has it pretty well off if you ask me, but if you are going to boost the Rokh grid, be sure to boost the Tempest's, Apocalypse's, Armageddon's and Abaddon's grid while your at it. After all they have to suffer the shame of using a fitting mod as well. Not to mention that the Rokh can probably get away with 2x PDU IIs, and we know how much those gimp shield tanks.... Oh, wait a minute...


Uh, you should be taking at least engineering lvl4 into account. I've got it at five and I don't need any fitting mods for a full rack of 425's on my Rokh.

Oh and make the Hyperion a Sensor dampening rail-boat below average armor. Clearly defined non-useless role that fits together.

Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Clan Korval
Posted - 2006.11.05 15:29:00 - [415]
 

Edited by: Miri Tirzan on 05/11/2006 15:30:12
Originally by: Lirt
Edited by: Lirt on 05/11/2006 09:22:50
Just tested the Rokh and im wondering why when its a fleet ship you have to fit pg mods in order to fit 8 425s t2, even with advanced weapon upgrades 5?
It makes the whole idea fall apart, Rokh really needs a bit more pg so when you have awu 5 to be able to fit 8 turrets without pg mods. Otherwise why we even train these skills when we end up with 'help' mods anyway. Confused


Well, I am guessing my skills are better than yours.

Engineering 5
Electronics 5
Weapons Upgrades 5
Advanced Weapons Upgrades 5
Controlled Burst 5

I had no problem putting full rack of 425s a light passive shield and had range of 195. Nor the best tank fitting but I liked the 10+k shields. For pure LR gank, add TC2, Sensor Booster IIs, and CR2s FTW, the low slots get MS2s and another sensor booster for range and tracking.

Nice damage and most range in the game. That is why I am currently traning Cal BS 5.



Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2006.11.05 15:40:00 - [416]
 

Edited by: Ishina Fel on 05/11/2006 15:40:59
Originally by: Miri Tirzan

Well, I am guessing my skills are better than yours.

Engineering 5
Electronics 5
Weapons Upgrades 5
Advanced Weapons Upgrades 5
Controlled Burst 5

I had no problem putting full rack of 425s a light passive shield and had range of 195. Nor the best tank fitting but I liked the 10+k shields. For pure LR gank, add TC2, Sensor Booster IIs, and CR2s FTW, the low slots get MS2s and another sensor booster for range and tracking.

Nice damage and most range in the game. That is why I am currently traning Cal BS 5.



Yes, a full rack of 425mm's fits... if you use tech 1 guns. The poster you responded to was talking about tech 2 guns in his post. Those do not fit without grid mods, regardless of what skills you have.

That said, if you are properly skilled, one single fitting mod or grid rig will be enough to fit a standard t2 fleet gank setup with full offensive focus. Only if you want a tank as well as 8x 425mm t2, then you need two or more fitting mods. So I guess it's quite okay as it is.

Ath Amon
Posted - 2006.11.05 15:41:00 - [417]
 

mah, imo it should get 6-7 turrets and not 8, or make fitting more difficult...

in its current state it makes every other fleet bs obsolete with good dps, huge range and tank...

to balance all the mods that it save with its weapon/sensor range and res bonus it really need to lose something or to make fitting comparable to other BS.

even racewise it doesn't make that much sense for it to have 8 turrets as caldari are not a "focused" turret race

Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2006.11.05 16:01:00 - [418]
 

Originally by: Ath Amon
to balance all the mods that it save with its weapon/sensor range and res bonus it really need to lose something or to make fitting comparable to other BS.


It does.
It has no offensive bonuses whatsoever (range is a tactical bonus).
It is the slowest of all battleships in the game.
It is the heaviest of all battleships in the game.
It has the biggest signature of all battleships in the game.
It has the smallest drone bay of all battleships in the game.
It has the worst scan resolution (i.e. worst locking time) of all battleships in the game.

People only look at slot layout and powergrid when judging a ship's capabilties, and in this they fail to see the full picture. Rolling Eyes

Azerrad InExile
Posted - 2006.11.05 16:12:00 - [419]
 

Originally by: Logan Xerxes
Uh, you should be taking at least engineering lvl4 into account. I've got it at five and I don't need any fitting mods for a full rack of 425's on my Rokh.

Oh and make the Hyperion a Sensor dampening rail-boat below average armor. Clearly defined non-useless role that fits together.


The numbers listed assume Engineering 5, Advanced Weapons Upgrades 5 and TECH 2 TURRETS.

The Judge
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.11.05 18:41:00 - [420]
 

Gotta say as an amarr spec'd character i am disappointed with the abaddon, the main problem being the cap (of course).

I'm having to use 2x heavy cap boosters just to keep the guns going, this is without using any armor repairers nor was i even getting nossed and i've got max cap skills.


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