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blankseplocked What niche do the new BSs fill, Or, define Battleship roles please
 
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.26 19:45:00 - [31]
 

I aggree, although I have my own ideas about what roles they should end up in.

Gallente
Dominix: Drone Boat. Good at it, doesn't need changing.
Megathron: Sniper and Blaster boat.
Hyperion: Short ranged ship with a tanking bonus and no damage bonus......huh?

Option 1 would be just to fix the Hyperion to make it a better blaster boat- it should have alot more agility, the Repping bonus should be gone, and replaced with either a damage bonus or a straight HP bonus (allowing it to survive the mad dash). The repping bonus is a waste because it takes time to pay off- and Blaster boats arn't meant to be in a battle a long time, they're meant to end battles fast with high DPS. Option 2 is to change its role entirely- an EWAR (sensor damp) platform could be nice, to follow the Maulus --> Celestis line. Futhermore, a sensor damp bonus would make it an effective close range brawler too- if their range is shrunk, you can get into close range easier yourself.

Minmatar
Typhoon: Jack of all trades, with a lot of different options. Makes a decent close range platform.
Tempest: Good sniper.
Maelstrom: Another sniper?

My sugestion for the Maelstrom would be- make it a missile boat. Minmatar are meant to be big on missiles, but they never seem to get much love. Give it launchers with RoF bonus, or.....well, whatever. If you already havea decent close range (AC) setup and a decent sniper (artillery) setup, why do we need to try and fill either role again?

Amarr
Armagedon: Gank.
Apocalypse: Tank.
Abaddon: Beter tank? Good but short gank?

I say that, although some people might complain- make Abaddon a drone ship. Both turret's are done to death, and Amarr have tehir share of drone ships, so it seems reasonable to give them a drone BS. Make it different to the Domi's "drone wtfbbq and tank" setup though, and make sure theres only limited Drone space compared to Domi, but with good turret prospects too. The other option would be to make a close range pulse laser (or, er, AC more likely) boat, with a bit more speed and huge HP, a damage bonus but no Cap bonus, making it a speedy-gank setup. This would relegate the Armageddon to sniping duty, which the Abaddon would suck at.


Like everyone, I aggree the Caldari are ok.

Deathbarrage
Posted - 2006.10.26 19:52:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Kunming
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Kunming
Just like I did before Kali testing, I'll talk about Amarr's 3 main ship concepts:

The Tanker (highest tier, usually): Apoc, maller, prophecy, etc
The Ganker (second tier, mot): Geddon, omen, harbinger...
The Skirmisher/EW (1st, lowest tier): Arbitrator, Crucifier, ???

IMO geddon should be changed to a bigger arbitrator (TD + Drone bonus), apoc the ganker (laser cap + RoF bonus) and abaddon the tanker (laser cap + resistance bonus). This would end all the whining and put the Amarr BSs back into their main concepts.


I'm telling you, it'd bring about a lot of Gallente whining. Drones are the main concept of Gallente, so as a drone carrier the Abaddon would have to be significantly worse than the Dominix, which is bleedin' hard to do when a tier 3 needs to be worse than a tier 1. (As I've detailed before, the only way to really do this is to move the Gallente drone to tier 3 and the Amarr drone to tier 1 - which incidentally, I'd like to do)
The Crucifier is clearly a turret ship and has nothing to do with drones, but what about the Tormentor? It's one of those lost Amarr concepts Twisted Evil


Thats why I say the geddon (lowest tier) should be changed into the drone boat, the apoc will get rof bonus and the abaddon will be the tanker/fleet-sniper with resistance bonus and lotsa pg to fit tachs. Why should caldari be the only race with an EW BS? IMO other races should have some options too.

Just give domi a RSD bonus instead of the hybrid dmg bonus (with that dmg bonus it outdmges bthrons, which is wrong IMO). Also consider that domi can field many waves of heavies, while geddon can only field 1 wave of heavies. That way geddon and domi would be simply different with gallente having the advantage in drones.



I'm 99,9% sure you fly a nosdom.... change hybrid damage to resistance bonus? :/

Idara
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Posted - 2006.10.26 21:15:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Karade
I disagree with the idea we should rigidly stick to frigate > cruiser > BS line of progression (Scorpion=EW boat was for example, a mistake in my opinion)


I very much dislike the progression as well. I vehemently hate the standardized bonuses that translate across these classes. I know it makes it easier to balance, not that it seems to matter in the case of these BSs. Now with things having either an armour or shield resist bonus, or a shield/repper amount bonus.

I'm not saying that what I'm saying is the only way to go, I just very much don't understand why these new classes are trying to wedge themselves into an already occupied space.

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2006.10.26 21:54:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 26/10/2006 19:16:30
Originally by: Altyrior Motif
From reading all the posts about the Abaddon, I think it does have a defined role. On one hand, you're not going to know whether the Abaddon that jumps through the gate at you is some sort of uber-tanking bait, or a high damage gank ship.


which can also be done with geddon or apoc. well the uber damage part maybe not on the apoc but you can definately put a nice tank on a geddon. so while that may be a role it is most certainly not a new role. notice the subtle difference and reason why we dont need this ship.


Originally by: goodby4u

But what you dont see is even though it cannot fit this with a tank it still gets alot of HP and a resist bonus,its somewhat difficult to fit an armageddon with 8 tachyons and have the resists of an abaddon isnt it?O wait you dont have 8 turret slots


so bascily it does what the geddon does but is slightly better at it? nothing that would constitue a new role here either then.




If you read my post you would understand what im talking about,these ships have one role,to make battles last longer.

Snikkt
Khargon Munitions
Posted - 2006.10.26 22:22:00 - [35]
 

The thought of the Hyperion being an E-war boat makes me very, very happy in the pants.

Kaell Meynn
Divergence
Posted - 2006.10.26 22:31:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 26/10/2006 22:32:19
Of course the problem with making the Hyperion an EW boat (apart from the fact that damps suck in everything but fleet sniper/fleet, and then lack the range without a falloff bonus), is that its a tier 3 ship, it'll cost like 200m ISK, and if it is made actually effective at fleet range, then it'll get primaried right away. A scorp, thats a 60m ship that's primaried... A EW-Hyp, 200m. For that kinda ISK it better be out-frikin-STANDING at EW. like a +20% falloff per level on all EW (ECM, Damps, TPs, TDs), and +5% effectiveness of Damps per level. With 8 mids and 7-8 lows.

I'm sure hte +20% to all will be seen as 4 bonuses though, so how about a slight bleedover into another races stuff, just like you have the curse bleeding into gallente drones, minmatar with missiles, etc...

have the Hyp have optimal bonus on ECM, and falloff bonus on Damps?

Trouble with ECM will be that with the ECM changes it'll suck without an already existing ECM bonus that they can double or somethin. But I dont see why changing a ship from +5% to +10% on its bonus is that different than changing another ship from +0% to +5%.


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