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blankseplocked There are pirates and there are pirates
 
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Symeonis Porphory
Gallente
Philosophi Lapis
Posted - 2003.10.25 18:33:00 - [1]
 

In an attempt to get a bit more exitement from the game, I decided to go exploring a bit... The huge universe was one of the things that appealed to me, so I wanted to learn some of it's secrets.

So... I persuaded a friend of mine to join me, took out some insurance. After all, since I am flying a cruiser there was a reasonable chance that I would loose my ship when I encountered something serious.

And indeed, I did encounter something serious. About as soon as I did leave empire space, there was a battleship waiting at the jumphole exit, weapons and drones ready. It opened fire as soon as I arrived, and shot me down in a couple of seconds, together with another cruiser (of someone I did not know). No ransom demands made.

All in all, not the most succesfull expedition Smile, but because of the insurance not to big a loss. However, it did leave me with some serious disappointments.

Firstly, a minor one: I was rather disappointed that my cruiser was derstroyed so easily. My opponent had a battleship, and (I expect) better skills, so he should win. But this fast? Having no chance at all at, not even token resistance, does make things a bit less fun.

But my major disappointment is that exploration seems to be impossible. I can imagine that there is battleships waiting at several jumpgates, so that there is no way through if they don't let you (unless if you go in with a couple of ships). Now, if I could spot them before the jump, and thus could avoid them, well, that would solve things a bit. But I can't. So all I can do is fly in, hope there is no one waiting and be destroyed if there is someone waiting. In other words, it suddenly feels to me that the whole exploration thingie is out of the window.
(A sidenote: I cannot really imagine someone waiting at a jumphole for a chance to slaughter someone... It seems boring to me, but it seems some pathetic people do enjoy it...)

Now, my complaint is not that there are player pirates. That's part of the game, and with insurance I can live with loosing my ship. I could also live with paying ransom. However, being shot to pieces without a warning, without a chance... That is not a fun game to me.

So... Am I dealing here with some rather pathetic pirates, or am I just completely ignorant of the proper method of getting around them. (Other then joining a corporation that employs a couple of battleships Smile)

BATT
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.10.25 18:46:00 - [2]
 

Normally,when the "threat" warning appeared,you should have a couple seconds to warp away..

If you stay ,the worst happen usually fast..

I kind of agree with you though, the game is crasy..you love it Or you hate it.


Symeonis Porphory
Gallente
Philosophi Lapis
Posted - 2003.10.25 18:53:00 - [3]
 

Quote:
Normally,when the "threat" warning appeared,you should have a couple seconds to warp away..


Somehow, that just didn't work... It was one of those times that you ship needs a lot of time to get going.

Insane Angel
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2003.10.25 19:25:00 - [4]
 

Slow entry into the system you jumped in to, passive targetting(possible but i doubt he did) other wise a few seondor boosters with low slot signal amplifiers ALONG with highly trained Signature analysis will allow him to have an instantaneous lock while ur still loading. And at the split second you load your either dead or almost dead. If you can look at the map and learn from other peoples deaths. Filter pods and ships destroyed and go around it. And ,yes, sometimes that may be the first ship through to them so its hit or miss.
I also agree it takes alot of skill(LOL) to camp a dropin. The pirates with the least amount of talent and who whine alot will say its the "carebears" falt for getting changes done to gate sentrys. Until there is a way around it, your map will be your best friend.

Symeonis Porphory
Gallente
Philosophi Lapis
Posted - 2003.10.25 23:10:00 - [5]
 

No, he didn't use a passive targetter.. didn't need one either. Thanks for the tips though. I did use the map for this one (clearly not well enough), but it's good to know I was on the right track.

Zarquon Beeblebrox
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.10.26 05:08:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Zarquon Beeblebrox on 26/10/2003 05:09:22
I dont know about you, but im a total noob in eve as of yet. i have about 360k skill points and fly a vigil and or a probe. i have mostly been out in 0.4 - 0.0, mining and pirat hunting, well mostly its running and warping. I take it slow. i dont use autopilot. i always use the scanner. i have set ready a destination so i only need to hit the auto pilot if i need to escape. i use the map. i check for pilots in space, pods last 24 and ships last 24.

To day i did get killed. Thanks to The General for sending me that torpedo. well i did try to orbit him distance 1km. i was hoping to get in speak with him. But he was triger happy hehe. My mistake. It is possible, but i all ways expect to die and be poded.

If i want to learn pvp i feel i have to be where pvp actualy exsists.

Chai N'Dorr
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Posted - 2003.10.26 11:15:00 - [7]
 

Quote:
[BATT]Normally,when the "threat" warning appeared,you should have a couple seconds to warp away..

If you stay ,the worst happen usually fast..

I kind of agree with you though, the game is crasy..you love it Or you hate it.




Sorry mate, no longer the case unless perhaps you're running some lean mean computer machine on a T1.

Got ganked yesterday by a pirate corp that before this incident I thought was a 'true' pirate corp, lock you down, hold you for ransom. Guess they're just griefers after all.

But no... jumped into the system and all those ships and drones at that jump in point lagged me so much that I was dead before I knew it.

Of course this isn't an exploit to use a lot of ships and combat drones at a system's jump in point... eventhough TomB himself said how the current jump system works, isn't how it is supposed to work.

Hope they liked the second of joy it gave them and my 'ueber l00t' of basic equipment.

(and yes, I am still loving this game, even with the many^10 flaws in it)

darth solo
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2003.10.26 11:39:00 - [8]
 

Ok, heres some tips for all you explorers.



AlwaysShocked use autopilot. By activating autopilot, you will warp to gate as soon as you jump into a system, this way u wont be looking for the next gate and wasting important time.

When you warp to gate hover over a warp to point, and get ready to warp to it, in case the gate is camped.

Unless the jump in point is being camped with many BS and drones, u should always have enough time to warp.


Lilan Kahn
Amarr
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2003.10.26 12:01:00 - [9]
 

another tip to avoide us, is too set auto pilot one system farther away form the system you whant to be in, gives you a bigger chance of geting out, of the jump in camps

Symeonis Porphory
Gallente
Philosophi Lapis
Posted - 2003.10.27 09:48:00 - [10]
 

Hmmm... I used the autopilot, and I thought it had a negative impact, since it made me unable to do something else then move to the next system (slowly, but that was just bad luck).

Thanks for the tip; otherwise I'd have tried without the autopilot next time.

Othnark
Minmatar
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2003.10.27 10:33:00 - [11]
 

Quote:
Got ganked yesterday by a pirate corp that before this incident I thought was a 'true' pirate corp, lock you down, hold you for ransom. Guess they're just griefers after all.



Hmmm, can you please explain to me why someone who attacks you for the sole purpose of killing you is automatically a griefer in your books? They dont want your money, and they dont have the time to ransom you. They want 2 things:

1) Your biomass for future use
2) Whatever modules / goods you may be using / transporting.

Sure they could find that out with certain modules, but as I explained before they dont want to spend the time, and besides they dont want to weaken their ships by using those modules where other combat gear could be fitted.

Thus they accept a trade off, they will lose a lot of goods and money in explosions, but they will be more effictive battlers. Does this make them griefers? No.


Mongo Peck
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.10.27 11:18:00 - [12]
 

As "one of those pirates" heres my "two cents worth". I will try to add an abjective point af view as I have lost "battleships" playing both sides of the coin ....

I fully agree that running around the systems "at present" is a game of chance. Everytime you jump into a system "pirate or not" you are waiting for "the lag of death"
and either the good, the bad or the ugly to pod you.

I fully agree "as a pirate" sitting at jump point is not the most exciting way to spend my "pleasure time".

The problem currently is two fold ....

Problem 1) Unless you camp either a gate or a
jump-in point you currently "have no" ability to either catch or pursue you prey.

Problem 2) Ships, even battleships die within
seconds. By the time the "lag" has cleared and your screen has loaded you normally are podded.

The solution ..... maybe too many to mention but maybe firstly put the ability to "pursue" into the game (warp trackers etc etc). Maybe make jump in points random and stargates armed.

Make ships "last" longer so hopefully tactics become the way to survive and not just loading up to see a pod.

Hopefully this is "read" as a honest view !!



Enriques
The Scope
Posted - 2003.10.27 11:45:00 - [13]
 

I definately agree with Lilan having recently lost my thorox to her. Me and a fellow corp member were doing some exploring in unsafe territory and we were just passing through the systems one by one. Hence when we jumped through to the system Lilan was camping we were dog meat immediately.

Then i went through it again in a velator with the autopilot set to the next system and i made it through fine. So at leas ti learnt something.

P.S. Lilan why didn't you ask for a ransom? We would happily have paid it. That must be a better way of pirating in my books.

Chai N'Dorr
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Posted - 2003.10.27 11:47:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Chai N'Dorr on 27/10/2003 11:47:44
Quote:
|Othnark| Hmmm, can you please explain to me why someone who attacks you for the sole purpose of killing you is automatically a griefer in your books?


Sure I'll explain... I've started to use the expression griefer more freely lately for the sole reason that a lot of 'pirates' call everyone who isn't heavily into PvP a carebear. They generalize, I generalize.

[ed. Quote]

Mongo Peck
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.10.27 11:54:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Mongo Peck on 27/10/2003 11:54:46
As to the arguement ... why not ask for a ransom .... simple 99% of the time the ship has already died ...

Maybe the ability to target "the engines +or weapons" would lead to a "more active" holdup.

Fausto
Caldari
Antonio Fratianni Corp
Posted - 2003.10.27 11:57:00 - [16]
 

Those are not really pirates. Sick individuals interessted only in taking someones life could hardly be marked as pirates. What we need is a another ogranization besides CONCORD to patrol EVE universe in search of these sickos - ESO - EVE Shrink Organization, since what they need is they heads cheked (preferably after CONCORD has finsihed their part of setting them to float in open space in casual clothes only).

Mongo Peck
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.10.27 12:22:00 - [17]
 

Intelligent response ..... not.

Lets all shout ... Stand and deliver ... please!

Chai N'Dorr
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Posted - 2003.10.27 12:51:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Chai N'Dorr on 27/10/2003 12:53:55
Quote:
|Mongo Peck:| Maybe the ability to target "the engines +or weapons" would lead to a "more active" holdup.


I'd love to see a development like that where it is possible to cripple a ship first and kill it later. At least I'd been given the choice whether or not I'd die or pay.

As well as tracking methods in System... would add some spice to both the Pirate and Bountyhunter (do they even exist now?) profession.

Pirates (the 'money of your life' varient) add spice to the game. There should be places where it's tough to be, even (especially) in Empire. I am not against Pirates... I am against players that kill without reason. Biomatter and the remark that soon(tm) it will have worth and the odd basic gear is not a reason, imo.

Track me down and kill me, I can live with
Gate Camp and kill me, I can live with
Find me killing rats and kill me, I can live with
Kill me for no reason than 'for being there' in 0.0 non-Empire, I can live with

That'd just mean I wasn't paying attention to Local and deserved to die for my stupidy.

Gank me at a Jump-in point (that aren't even supposed to be there according to dev's but isn't an exploit according to GM's) before my screen is even loaded... I do have a problem with.

That's all I'll say about my expiration, it did teach me to use the F10 map again to check "Pilots in Space / Pilots Docked / Ship Kills / Poddings" again like I used to whenever I went into < 0.5

[ed. Spelling]

Symeonis Porphory
Gallente
Philosophi Lapis
Posted - 2003.10.27 14:00:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Symeonis Porphory on 27/10/2003 14:02:28
Quote:
Unless you camp either a gate or a jump-in point you currently "have no" ability to either catch or pursue you prey.

I must say you have a valid point there. Just as it is for me (as an explorer) it is no fun to enter a system and die before I know what's going on, it is no fun for you (as a pirate) to just hang around and find no opponents at all (other than by chance).
So, though I am not happy with the current situation, I do agree that it's not just a coward's tactic (as it does appear), but that there are better reasons involved. Cleary, there are some changes that need to be made to the game. The solutions you propose sound valid. I think those would go a long way in solving the problems.

Bobby Wilson
Gallente
Posted - 2003.10.27 14:17:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Bobby Wilson on 27/10/2003 14:21:47
Most "pirates" in EVE are just total blastmonkeys. On a good day (only) Space Invaders are one of the few exceptions to this rule. Most are just blowing you up and sorting through your cargo. If this ever happens to you again make sure to use the ship option "self-destruct" if the pirate does not give you the opportunity to pay ransom. That's the only way you can fight back if they aren't interested in anything but killing you, as self-destructing destroys your entire ship, all its modules and cargo so the blastmonkey gets nothing.

Exploring is best accomplished either in a Blackbird with 6 afterburners and 2 overdrives, or in the best frigate of your racial choice. A Heavy cruiser is, as your have found out, no defense against a battleship. FYI if the BS you encountered was a scorpion or Raven, pretty much no Battleship would have helped you either.

Gate camping is lethal 5-6 times out of 10, with most of the rest of the times a person either running away successfully or (less often) getting to jump range before getting smoked.

Once into non-secure space turn your AP off and do all your jumps manually, then check local for obvious pirates or members of pirate corps. This will protect you from gate camping, but not jump-in camping. *sigh* Take your pick, it's hard as hell not to get ganked with the current lag issues in game.

BW

Mongo Peck
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.10.27 14:33:00 - [21]
 

Lets make this clear ...... for the hard of hearing ...

Camping gates is boring but "currently" there is no other valid way to pursue you foe.

Don't complain at the players "shout" to CCP as I would love them to change this situation today !!!!

Czekiit Layduur
Posted - 2003.10.27 16:43:00 - [22]
 

Quote:
Ok, heres some tips for all you explorers.



AlwaysShocked use autopilot. By activating autopilot, you will warp to gate as soon as you jump into a system, this way u wont be looking for the next gate and wasting important time.

When you warp to gate hover over a warp to point, and get ready to warp to it, in case the gate is camped.

Unless the jump in point is being camped with many BS and drones, u should always have enough time to warp.




I kinda had some fun last night. I was doing a bit of travelling in a Breacher (I like the top end speed). I noticed (in local) that some known pirates were in system. I located the planet nearest my jump out point because this can often give you an insta-jump out.

Well, I warped to the stargate, and before my screen even stabilized I heard the "lock" sound and the launching of many missiles. Before I could do ANYTHING, I was hit with so much ordinance that not only was my Breacher destroyed, the splash damage took out my pod and corpse! Hehe Glad I have a good clone and a cheap ship!!

So much fun that they spent more to kill me than it cost me to outfit myself!


 

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