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Zarquon Beeblebrox
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.10.24 10:36:00 - [1]
 

I have mention before in one of my posts about my real life friends that play this game. (Arcade gamers as i like to call them, carebears is rude im my opinion) Last night we was discussing pirates , warps, jumping and how litle of your gaming time actualy are spent in a "space" where someone can get to you. After some time the discusion kind of ended with a statement like this: If a pirate even try to make me pay one ISK, and i have no way to escape in my BS. I will self destruct my BS, and even my pod. this way the pirate aint geting noting.

Just whantet to hear others players opinion on this.

Lilan Kahn
Amarr
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2003.10.24 10:38:00 - [2]
 

let them, its saves us the isk of useing ammo and missels on them

drunkenmaster
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2003.10.24 10:47:00 - [3]
 

no, watching someone self destruct *does* give the players something.

About 30 minutes of laughter on voice comms, and a story to post on our forum.

SKiNNiEH
Posted - 2003.10.24 10:57:00 - [4]
 

Isnt that what lemmings do?

Booky
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.10.24 11:27:00 - [5]
 

I would only self distruct when I know im gonna die and I have valuable items onboard. If I have a chance or if I have no cargo or items equiped that are worth a damn, then I will elt them waste their ammo and time. But I doubt I will be in a situation where I have NO chance anytime soon.

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2003.10.24 11:27:00 - [6]
 

I carry very little in the way of isk in my wallet.

I could try convincing a pirate that I am unable to pay anything more than 1M isk, but would he believe me?

No.

That's why I'd try to fight my way out and, if it turns out I was only going to die, I'd self-destruct.

The pleasure gotten from not giving pirates a penny profit would outweigh the loss of modules, implants and the insured ship.

I've got modules in abundance and implants, while costly, wouldn't take more than a few days to replace.

Indigo Seqi
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2003.10.24 11:35:00 - [7]
 

Most of the time people only self-destruct if we give them enough time to do so. If we'd just blow up every ship we encounter immediatly, people wouldn't have time to pull themselves together and click on that self-destruct button before we kill them.
I guess we all should convert to grieferdom, it simply seems to be far more profitable.

billy
Gallente
Drunken Wookies
Posted - 2003.10.24 11:44:00 - [8]
 

josh you are a pirate you fool

Zarquon Beeblebrox
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.10.24 11:44:00 - [9]
 

Quote:
Most of the time people only self-destruct if we give them enough time to do so. If we'd just blow up every ship we encounter immediatly, people wouldn't have time to pull themselves together and click on that self-destruct button before we kill them.
I guess we all should convert to grieferdom, it simply seems to be far more profitable.


Yes i agree. I have no ide how many non pirate like chars will actualy self destruct. But if this is most of them, im sure they are only shoting them self in the foot. In the end it will be like you say. Pirats will stop blackmailing them for monney, and go straigth to attack, damage, kill, pod, and loot (pod im not sure of im not a pirate as of yet my self: DAMN pirate corps that only want xx:Mil skill points cpatains in there corps.... where mature and way of gameplay should be considered.)

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2003.10.24 11:51:00 - [10]
 

Quote:
josh you are a pirate you fool


Where's my free tech 3 peg leg, hmmmmm?

Darth Tom
Minmatar
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2003.10.24 12:24:00 - [11]
 

Quote:
Quote:
josh you are a pirate you fool


Where's my free tech 3 peg leg, hmmmmm?


My God! That's what I sat on!

Cheers,
TOM

Fausto
Caldari
Antonio Fratianni Corp
Posted - 2003.10.24 13:18:00 - [12]
 

Quote:
Most of the time people only self-destruct if we give them enough time to do so. If we'd just blow up every ship we encounter immediatly, people wouldn't have time to pull themselves together and click on that self-destruct button before we kill them.
I guess we all should convert to grieferdom, it simply seems to be far more profitable.


The only ships you can destroy that fast are shuttles. But you are attacking only shuttles so it makes sense since shuttles don't fire back. Unless you are killing people that still haven't loaded after jump. Or are AFK which is one of pirates favorites. It's that or you are talking nonsense. It's a known fact that pirates run when odds are not 3:1 in their favor.

Perdita X
Amarr
The Collective
Posted - 2003.10.24 14:36:00 - [13]
 

Quote:

I guess we all should convert to grieferdom, it simply seems to be far more profitable.


Probably. But is it fun?

Bobby Wilson
Gallente
Posted - 2003.10.24 15:03:00 - [14]
 

Someone willing to destroy their own BS to avoid paying even a modest toll is either stupid, psychotic, rich and/or is getting their ships from e-bay.

Last time I got properly pirated I paid the toll and left. I WILL self-destruct, but only if I get "biomassed", as griefers who don't act like proper pirates don't deserve my stuff. Of course the "tactic" of lag-camping might mean I didn't even have enough time to load before my BS was destroyed, but if I had even 5 seconds to think about it and was not given the option of paying a toll I would self destruct.

BW

Maud Dib
Caldari
The Bleeding Heart Cult
Posted - 2003.10.24 15:07:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Maud Dib on 24/10/2003 15:09:26
Ok If I was stoped and locked down tight I wouldn't self destruct unless the money demand was crazy. It's just a bad way to play the game. Now if they want 20 mil not to blow up my shuttle heron then boom baby boom. Otherwise they got me fair and square might as well pay up. Now if your not locked and can fight don't self destruct and don't pay go down fighting.

slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2003.10.24 15:53:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: slothe on 24/10/2003 15:54:46
you got to go down fighting

trap
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2003.10.24 15:56:00 - [17]
 

actually fausto not all pirates run when odds are not in their favor. ex:

NVA 14 ships vs SI 8 ships - outcome: they would not come and fight us

Oberon 8-9 ships vs SI 4 ships - outcome: killed all but 2

Cult + Bladerunners 4 BS vs SI 4 BS + 1 thorax - outcome: Cult lost 1 ship, Blade lost 1 ships - we lost 0


Now these encounters are only within the last 2-3 weeks, we have tons more just like this. SI is usually outnumbered and we generally always fight unless it is heavily out of our hands. Thank you come again.

Bobby Wilson
Gallente
Posted - 2003.10.24 18:27:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Bobby Wilson on 24/10/2003 18:33:19
Quote:

NVA 14 ships vs SI 8 ships - outcome: they would not come and fight us

Oberon 8-9 ships vs SI 4 ships - outcome: killed all but 2


C'mon Trap, you're going to give the rest of SI a bad name. I'm assuming it's a couple of weeks ago yer talking about, both incidents occuring in the same system within an hour of each other.

In the first instance we waited for overwhelming force (for good reason, see 2nd example which happened first) while you trash-talked us in local. Then your spy in our gang warps out just ahead of the gang warp and warns you Archain, Kasha and whoever the 4th SI was that we were coming. So when our (admittedly huge) force arrived at the gate you'd been camping, all we find is your drones hanging in space, as you'd done the bug-out boogey. You guys (I think wisely) didn't warp back to attack us or take any action against that force even though you KNEW exactly where we were. Again, I'm not saying anything against you for not choosing to fight a vastly superior force, but it can hardly be used as an example of "NVA would not come and fight", more like "NVA came and tried to fight 10 minutes and 3 newly arrived ships after you would have liked us to have attacked you". Doesn't make you guys heroes, doesn't make us cowards.

The second instance is out of order, as it happened ~1 hour before the first and it was your effective ownage of that small force that forced us to re-evaluate and wait for reinforcements (see above). You effectively got us to split our force using your infiltrator (our fault for fighting with an unknown pilot in our gang) to give us bad situational intel and advice, then we split into 2 groups and my group (gate assault force) attacked the gate with 3 cruisers, 1 BS and a frigate (we were expecting your spy's report of 2 Scorps at the gate) and got royally pwned by the 3-4 SI BS that were sitting there by the gate using drones and torpedos.

Since your spy in the gang convinced us to split our force telling us that the Raven was by the station, you NEVER faced the entire 8-9 Oberon ships (of which only 2-3 were BSes) you referenced here as about 1/2 went to find the Raven, and we (the assault team) ran away after being wiped out rather than the 2nd team warping in to get pwned along with us. Total losses in that exchange were 3 cruisers, *maybe* 1 frigate, 1 member podded and one member who actually took structural damage to her pod without dying (who knew that was even possible? Shocked )

I am not going to suggest that if our entire force of 8-9 had hit your gate we would have killed all 3-4 of you, that is not for sure, but I can guarantee that if we HAD all come at once we would have done better than we did, which as I recall was losing 3 cruisers without so much as damaging the paint on your pretty battleships. So yes, you guys owned in that situation. Just don't try to make it some big courageous thing rather than the intelligent, respectable victory that it was.


Personally, I can believe I'm having to respond here 2 weeks later. At the time Oberon and the NVA didn't indulge in any forum trash-talk. We NEVER posted about how you ran the second time (couldn't blame ya really), and I rather subtly owned up to my embarrassment re the first incident in the "SI still got class" Shocked thread in response to Kasha's equally subtle teasing. And BTW *I* started the SI class thread due to the much better manners of some of your corp mates.

SI WILL stand up inferior or even odds, I think that is fair to say. But to suggest *you* will stand in the face of superior odds certainly isn't borne out by your examples, and I would prefer you pick some other corp to pretend you can beat for your "I'm 4 l33t d00d" chirping.

BW

Eneroth
Caldari
DucKtape Unlimited
Posted - 2003.10.24 19:14:00 - [19]
 

Quote:
actually fausto not all pirates run when odds are not in their favor. ex:

NVA 14 ships vs SI 8 ships - outcome: they would not come and fight us

Oberon 8-9 ships vs SI 4 ships - outcome: killed all but 2

Cult + Bladerunners 4 BS vs SI 4 BS + 1 thorax - outcome: Cult lost 1 ship, Blade lost 1 ships - we lost 0


Now these encounters are only within the last 2-3 weeks, we have tons more just like this. SI is usually outnumbered and we generally always fight unless it is heavily out of our hands. Thank you come again.


Biomass colmes and SI will hide in a station for days.
So close your big mouth.

Archain
Minmatar
Rage of Angels
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2003.10.24 19:15:00 - [20]
 

Quote:
C'mon Trap, you're going to give the rest of SI a bad name. I'm assuming it's a couple of weeks ago yer talking about, both incidents occuring in the same system within an hour of each other.

In the first instance we waited for overwhelming force (for good reason, see 2nd example which happened first) while you trash-talked us in local. Then your spy in our gang warps out just ahead of the gang warp and warns you Archain, Kasha and whoever the 4th SI was that we were coming. So when our (admittedly huge) force arrived at the gate you'd been camping, all we find is your drones hanging in space, as you'd done the bug-out boogey. You guys (I think wisely) didn't warp back to attack us or take any action against that force even though you KNEW exactly where we were. Again, I'm not saying anything against you for not choosing to fight a vastly superior force, but it can hardly be used as an example of "NVA would not come and fight", more like "NVA came and tried to fight 10 minutes and 3 newly arrived ships after you would have liked us to have attacked you". Doesn't make you guys heroes, doesn't make us cowards.

The second instance is out of order, as it happened ~1 hour before the first and it was your effective ownage of that small force that forced us to re-evaluate and wait for reinforcements (see above). You effectively got us to split our force using your infiltrator (our fault for fighting with an unknown pilot in our gang) to give us bad situational intel and advice, then we split into 2 groups and my group (gate assault force) attacked the gate with 3 cruisers, 1 BS and a frigate (we were expecting your spy's report of 2 Scorps at the gate) and got royally pwned by the 3-4 SI BS that were sitting there by the gate using drones and torpedos.

Since your spy in the gang convinced us to split our force telling us that the Raven was by the station, you NEVER faced the entire 8-9 Oberon ships (of which only 2-3 were BSes) you referenced here as about 1/2 went to find the Raven, and we (the assault team) ran away after being wiped out rather than the 2nd team warping in to get pwned along with us. Total losses in that exchange were 3 cruisers, *maybe* 1 frigate, 1 member podded and one member who actually took structural damage to her pod without dying (who knew that was even possible? )

I am not going to suggest that if our entire force of 8-9 had hit your gate we would have killed all 3-4 of you, that is not for sure, but I can guarantee that if we HAD all come at once we would have done better than we did, which as I recall was losing 3 cruisers without so much as damaging the paint on your pretty battleships. So yes, you guys owned in that situation. Just don't try to make it some big courageous thing rather than the intelligent, respectable victory that it was.


Personally, I can believe I'm having to respond here 2 weeks later. At the time Oberon and the NVA didn't indulge in any forum trash-talk. We NEVER posted about how you ran the second time (couldn't blame ya really), and I rather subtly owned up to my embarrassment re the first incident in the "SI still got class" thread in response to Kasha's equally subtle teasing. And BTW *I* started the SI class thread due to the much better manners of some of your corp mates.

SI WILL stand up inferior or even odds, I think that is fair to say. But to suggest *you* will stand in the face of superior odds certainly isn't borne out by your examples, and I would prefer you pick some other corp to pretend you can beat for your "I'm 4 l33t d00d" chirping.



The first one trap was talking about actually wasn't in X-7OMU, it was a fleet build up on both sides that eventually resulted in a stalemate. We did have someone gather intel for us in that one, but the fight never happened. I've only got screenshots of the ingame map on that one showing force sizes.

The one you had mentioned first in your post was a vastly superior force...it was awesome to watch them come full force in a gang warp and I have to admit I was totally impressed with the coordination involved in that one. We had no advanced warning other than the larger than normal local channel. When they did warp in there were way more than we could sanely consider fighting. You should have heard Teamspeak, lol. Awesome execution on the assault.

The second instance you talk about is correct though except for the fact that we didn't have a scout in that one either. Whoever it was that reported our fleet strength was partially correct. Trap was in a Raven checking the stations, I was in one Scorpion, and Leitari was in the other Scorpion at the gate. I believe Kasha might have been in a Scorpion as well, but was on and off afk and refitting at the top listed station. I actually only caught a glimpse of this one...when I activated my modules I CTD'd and had to log back in. I was able to log back in and continue, it appears that Trap's smack talking in local

Archain
Minmatar
Rage of Angels
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2003.10.24 19:17:00 - [21]
 

I was able to log back in and continue, it appears that Trap's smack talking in local earned him the battle focus and damage from the fleet. I can tell you the warps to the gate were nasty...I think it's over 100 AUs to get there from the station.

Bobby Wilson
Gallente
Posted - 2003.10.24 20:11:00 - [22]
 

Quote:
I was able to log back in and continue, it appears that Trap's smack talking in local earned him the battle focus and damage from the fleet. I can tell you the warps to the gate were nasty...I think it's over 100 AUs to get there from the station.


Fair enough, kinda minor clarifications there and well mannered. I posted only because I objected to my corp and alliance being picked out as the wimps in the Trap's posturing. And yeah, that is a big star system, our second assault on the gate was slow in part because we knew more forces were coming, but also becuase we needed to move staging areas so as to have *some* cap left when he finally warped to the gate Wink

Thanks for the clarification regarding those indidents Archain, I accept most of whatcha said (although I'm still assuming the guy in our gang was a plant, otherwise he was just really stupid, ridiculously aggressive and amazingly lucky to not be in any of the hostile parts of the encounter while still an active part of the gang and asking for our ship types, loadouts, exact numbers,...) Either way if he's ever in my gang again he stands about as much chance of survival as that guy with the big bounty had sitting beside Viceroy Twisted Evil

In any case, I never felt that this pair of encounters was worth posting about, and wish it hadn't been mentionned in the first place. Since it has been mentionned, as since Archain has been so polite about it I should say that in the combat part of the encounter SI used very effective fire co-ordination and generally defended their position with aplomb. Stepping Razor's Blackbird lasted about 5 seconds from the time she turned on her sensor dampeners to the time she was warping away in a severly damaged pod. I can't even begin to tell you how stupid she felt when she realized she had been destroyed mostly, if not entirely, by torpedos and hadn't even fired a single defender...

BW

Bobby Wilson
Gallente
Posted - 2003.10.24 21:17:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Bobby Wilson on 24/10/2003 21:35:08
Quote:
The second instance you talk about is correct though except for the fact that we didn't have a scout in that one either. Whoever it was that reported our fleet strength was partially correct. Trap was in a Raven checking the stations, I was in one Scorpion, and Leitari was in the other Scorpion at the gate. I believe Kasha might have been in a Scorpion as well, but was on and off afk and refitting at the top listed station.


Yeah, that sounds about right. So we thought our small force was going to catch 2 Scorpions at the gate (fair fight or better we thought with only 1 BS in our gate assault team) and the rest of the gang including a lot of our EW headed off on a wild goose chase to hunt the Raven, who unbeknownst to us was already back at the gate.

It was pretty funny actually, once we realized we had only lost cruisers in that attack. A number of us are military, ex-military or military history buffs and we all knew and even talked about the danger of splitting forces in the face of the enemy, but we got ****y/greedy and tried it (failing miserably).

THAT more than anything else was the reason our follow-up force to clear the gate was so large and so well co-ordinated. We were not going to make the same mistake twice, expecially when so many more battleships were at risk than the first go.

BW

Whoa. The swear filter is set to "extinguish all life". C O C K Y, a word that is not at all rude and means roughly: "arrogantly overconfident" hits the filter....

Cptn Stardust
Posted - 2003.10.25 07:36:00 - [24]
 

self-destruct would be my preferred option.
That's if i'm actually able to access the GUI

So many exploits right now, i think 'real' pirates are very few in Eve.

self-destruct should also take them out as well, if they are too close

Sequin
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2003.10.26 00:25:00 - [25]
 

I'd fight to the death, why? Aside from the fact I mount twin Counterbalanced mods that are a huge pain in the ass to find, self destructing 60million in time and effort is STUPID. Wake up you idiots, self destruct a battleship for a lousy toll? Are you even thinking?

Anyway, I have yet to see any SI really, so I can't comment. I would say now, that I'd rather die guns blazing than podding myself.

Soul Reaver
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2003.10.26 10:13:00 - [26]
 

When I was a noob I self desrtucted my MOA by mistake (dont ask) But dont tell anyone as it will ruin my reputation :)




Phony
Posted - 2003.10.26 14:15:00 - [27]
 

What are you guys talking about... "real pirates" and how some pirates dont act the way they are supposed to. PIRATING DOES NOT IN ANY WAY HAVE TO BE FAIR. THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT PIRATING!!!! Have you ever heard a story of pirates of the sea being fair? NO you havn't. They like to pray on the weak and defensless and steal what they have. And to self destructing over a mear toll....that is the stupidest thing i ever heard. It would just save us the time and effort. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

drunkenmaster
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2003.10.26 15:41:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: drunkenmaster on 26/10/2003 15:42:45
Quote:
Biomass comes and SI will hide in a station for days.
So close your big mouth.


rofls

here's your sign.

Symeonis Porphory
Gallente
Philosophi Lapis
Posted - 2003.10.27 10:00:00 - [29]
 

Quote:
What are you guys talking about... "real pirates" and how some pirates dont act the way they are supposed to. PIRATING DOES NOT IN ANY WAY HAVE TO BE FAIR. THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT PIRATING!!!! Have you ever heard a story of pirates of the sea being fair? NO you havn't. They like to pray on the weak and defensless and steal what they have.


Indeed... But this isn't real life, is it? This is a game, and it supposed to be fun. If there is to much option to play unfair, it is no longer fun to a lot of players... To me, that is something that we needs to be avoided.

Miz Cenuij
Caldari
Posted - 2003.10.29 08:21:00 - [30]
 

Lol, weve even had a guy who ejected from his ship as it came under fire and here's the funny part....
Splash damage from a torp hit his pod and he died anyway.
Leaving us with a free Thorax to repair and sell on. So please, dont self destruct. EJECT.

That said, most of us no longer do it for the isk, Just the pleasure of hearing popping pods. So if u want to self destruct because we are gonna shoot at you, go ahead. You coudnt pay us a bigger compliment.


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