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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.07 20:53:00 - [211]
 

Originally by: Jenial
since your so good why dont you go attack those running level 4 missions?? ohhhhhh risk/rewards?? Sounds like you guys just like to kill small fry and dont like to have a risk when killing another player. hmmmm sound pretty much the same as people who dont bother going into low sec because you camp gates too much.

I'll tell you what would get people out more to low sec, but its going to take time. stop mass killing anyone and only be selective in your kills. let a month go by where people are allowed to explore without being gate pawned. you might actually get some people willing to try it out.

but if you continue to just kill everyone and play gate keeper you low sec hoarding grounds will be mostly empty.
Pirates in low-sec space used to ransom at gates. That was rendered impossible - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, griefers'.

Pirates in low-sec space used to hunt targets in belts for ransom. That was rendered irrelevant - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, greifers'.

Pirates in low-sec used to be able to make money without sifting wreckage with an alt. That was rendered impossible - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, greifters'.

Pirates have adapted. The snipe-gank everything from 200k with no risk is the pirate adaptation to the changes your forebearers begged to have introduced to curtail piracy. As someone keeps saying, "If you pay the danegeld, you never get rid of the dane". Unfortunately, by not paying the danegeld, you've simply eliminated the only reason the dane didnt just stab you in the first place.

Welcome to the inevitable consequences of your bretheren and their shortsightedness. You get exactly what you deserve.

Jan Mierre
Posted - 2006.10.07 21:16:00 - [212]
 

Quote:
Welcome to the inevitable consequences of your bretheren and their shortsightedness. You get exactly what you deserve.


That cuts both ways. Why do you think lowsec is empty of everything but pirates and noobs that don't know any better? People "adapted" to the fact that lowsec is crawling with people with itchy trigger fingers, so they route around it through high sec or just don't go into empire at all.

The question from my earlier post still stands: Why aren't all the pirates looking for action where the action is, instead of sitting on empire gates that most people know to avoid?

Jenial
Posted - 2006.10.07 21:26:00 - [213]
 

Im not the one sitting there in empty space camping a gate for someone who comes in. you want people to come?? stop it.

Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2006.10.07 22:27:00 - [214]
 

Originally by: Jan Mierre
Quote:
Some of those people saying pirates are scared for a real fight, go in a system, go in a belt and give em one. They will line up for the action, because in many low sec systems no action exists. If you askes a pirate, gatecamp for 2 hrs, or solid belt pvping for 2 hrs, 99% of them would pvp in a belt, because thats what they play the game for.


Not buying it. They want action, so they sit a gate for hours hoping somebody didn't check the map first? This is a PvP game, not a sit-in-a-lawnchair-and-pop-freighters game.

If a fight is what they want, why are they in empire? Plenty of fighting to be had in Syndicate and other non-empire regions and it doesn't touch their empire sec status. The people there LOVE a good fight and probably don't mind losing their ship in a fun duel. Why not take them up on it instead of popping noobs that don't know how to PvP?

Honestly, I have to ask, why are there so many pirates posting countless threads with ideas to move (coerce) people from high sec to low sec? What is the obsession with "carebears"? Carebear this, carebear that. What is the obsession??


Speaking for myself, I'd love some good hard fights, but I see that as an occasional fun perk, not as something intrinsic to pirating--except when I screw up. When I'm pirating it's with the idea of eventually being able to make a living doing it. Fair fights are cool, but they're not at all cool for the wallet unless you're really good. That's even more the case when like me, you're a belt pirate, a ransomer, operating solo, a despiser of using alts, and worst of all a noob. I pretty much have to stack the odds in my favor, or run into somebody who really doesn't know what they're doing. As it stands now, I need to make most of my income through other things. At a guess, I'd say that's true of most pirates, even though many of them hide it on their alts.

I hope I'm good enough someday to make lots of isk fighting other PvP ships, but I don't think it will really be pirating at that point either. It'll be bounty hunting, or mercing.

That's because pirating by definition is all about getting the jump on those weaker, whether it's with better ships, better modules, better teamwork, better terrain, or better intelligence. A pirate who doesn't have any of those things isn't going to succeed. It's not "dueling", nor is it a profession where you're paid by the hour, for trying hard, or for taking on fights you're not likely to win.

So speaking very generally now about the profession, I'd say most pirates are looking for similar things as carebears: maximized profits for minimal risks. Unfortunately right now the best way by far to get that is gatecamping.

Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2006.10.07 22:32:00 - [215]
 

Originally by: Jenial
Im not the one sitting there in empty space camping a gate for someone who comes in. you want people to come?? stop it.


That's not realistically going to happen unless the game mechanics are changed to encourage them to do other things. It's not as if there is a big Pirate Parliament that tells us what to do. :P

Complacency's Bane
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.07 22:53:00 - [216]
 

Originally by: Jan Mierre
The question from my earlier post still stands: Why aren't all the pirates looking for action where the action is, instead of sitting on empire gates that most people know to avoid?
The answer from my earlier post still stands.

Pirates snipe at gates because its a boring, but effective, way of making isk. Just like people run lvl 4 missions in highsec because it is a boring, but effective, way of making isk.

Just like lvl 4 missions in highsec, sniping needs a nerf.

Tommy Vercetti
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.10.07 23:16:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: Complacency's Bane

Pirates in low-sec space used to ransom at gates. That was rendered impossible - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, griefers'.

Pirates in low-sec space used to hunt targets in belts for ransom. That was rendered irrelevant - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, greifers'.

Pirates in low-sec used to be able to make money without sifting wreckage with an alt. That was rendered impossible - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, greifters'.

Pirates have adapted. The snipe-gank everything from 200k with no risk is the pirate adaptation to the changes your forebearers begged to have introduced to curtail piracy. As someone keeps saying, "If you pay the danegeld, you never get rid of the dane". Unfortunately, by not paying the danegeld, you've simply eliminated the only reason the dane didnt just stab you in the first place.

Welcome to the inevitable consequences of your bretheren and their shortsightedness. You get exactly what you deserve.


Good post Bane. Thing is though, you have 10000 people screaming "nerf gate camps" so what will pirating consist of with certain game mechanics such as low sec remaining the same?

As for you Jenial, I suggest you use that small grey matter under your skill. People here have admitted for pages that pvp setups have an advantage over pve setups. Pirates would go for level 4 mission runners, but its not a case of warp in @ 15kms and start shooting. No that would really get the carebears up in arms wouldn't it. Why don't you just stop the endless pirate rant, but then again it is entertaining. And for gatecamps, seriously mate it doesn't require 3 hrs of planning to run through one. Ive been through 0.0-emp pipes hundreds of times. Yes if theres 30 people in nrael or Kabi you don't warp in expecting a welcome party.

When I said my comments about gate and belt piracy, I was referring to the current game mechanics. Pirates gatecamp because belt piracy in many systems would mean flying around twiddling your thumbs. Gatecamping is incredibly boring, but it's the only way to get constant isk. As I said before, pirates maximise their isk within game mechanics, no other profession doesn't do it, why should they be any different. Blame lies within CCP for not doing enough for the profession, thus causing it to become what it is.

Idio T
Gallente
Gangrel Mining and Security
High Treason Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.08 06:38:00 - [218]
 

EVE is not a PVP game. It is an open ended game that may include PVP, it is a choice. Changing game mechanics in hopes that people who enjoy PvE will migrate to PvP locations won’t substantially work because of the players’ individual personality.

Coaxing PvE players onto a PvP home turf where the disadvantaged will usually be the PvE player will only anger players on both sides.

The only way to persuade PvE players into low sec is to make it appealing via trust. Trust that they won’t die every time they cross over at a jump gate, mine for omber or do a delivery mission in a frigate. With this trust, the fear subsides and the players will trickle over as the environment changes.

Dynast
Osirians Of Eve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.08 09:44:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: Complacency's Bane
Pirates in low-sec space used to ransom at gates. That was rendered impossible - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, griefers'.

Pirates in low-sec space used to hunt targets in belts for ransom. That was rendered irrelevant - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, greifers'.

Pirates in low-sec used to be able to make money without sifting wreckage with an alt. That was rendered impossible - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, greifters'.

Pirates have adapted. The snipe-gank everything from 200k with no risk is the pirate adaptation to the changes your forebearers begged to have introduced to curtail piracy. As someone keeps saying, "If you pay the danegeld, you never get rid of the dane". Unfortunately, by not paying the danegeld, you've simply eliminated the only reason the dane didnt just stab you in the first place.

Welcome to the inevitable consequences of your bretheren and their shortsightedness. You get exactly what you deserve.

And they adapted and ignore low sec in favor of places where they don't get sniped. And your lot come to the boards and complain they don't get enough action.

Face it: you've made low sec space suck to live in. You can get something close to double your money missioning in low sec, but the vast majority (90% or more?) mission in high sec, because the risks posed by low sec are not competitive or challenging, they're stupid and lame.

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.08 13:28:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: Dynast
Originally by: Complacency's Bane
Pirates in low-sec space used to ransom at gates. That was rendered impossible - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, griefers'.

Pirates in low-sec space used to hunt targets in belts for ransom. That was rendered irrelevant - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, greifers'.

Pirates in low-sec used to be able to make money without sifting wreckage with an alt. That was rendered impossible - your carebear bretheren gleefully screamed 'adapt or die, greifters'.

Pirates have adapted. The snipe-gank everything from 200k with no risk is the pirate adaptation to the changes your forebearers begged to have introduced to curtail piracy. As someone keeps saying, "If you pay the danegeld, you never get rid of the dane". Unfortunately, by not paying the danegeld, you've simply eliminated the only reason the dane didnt just stab you in the first place.

Welcome to the inevitable consequences of your bretheren and their shortsightedness. You get exactly what you deserve.

And they adapted and ignore low sec in favor of places where they don't get sniped. And your lot come to the boards and complain they don't get enough action.

Face it: you've made low sec space suck to live in. You can get something close to double your money missioning in low sec, but the vast majority (90% or more?) mission in high sec, because the risks posed by low sec are not competitive or challenging, they're stupid and lame.
I agree dynast, high sec is way too productive. Moving agents above Q 0 will increase the reward ratio from low sec to high sec, while not crushing gameplay.

Idio T: A dev has said himself that eve is a pvp game. Just like WoW is a pve game with pvp in it. The great thing about eve is that even the market has pvp Very Happy

Tommy Vercetti
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.10.08 13:34:00 - [221]
 

Originally by: Idio T
EVE is not a PVP game. It is an open ended game that may include PVP, it is a choice. Changing game mechanics in hopes that people who enjoy PvE will migrate to PvP locations won’t substantially work because of the players’ individual personality.

Coaxing PvE players onto a PvP home turf where the disadvantaged will usually be the PvE player will only anger players on both sides.

The only way to persuade PvE players into low sec is to make it appealing via trust. Trust that they won’t die every time they cross over at a jump gate, mine for omber or do a delivery mission in a frigate. With this trust, the fear subsides and the players will trickle over as the environment changes.



Er yes it is a pvp game, perhaps not from your pov but it is. The only way your safe from pvp is when you are docked.

Your idea of trust just might as well be banning pvp in eve. Doesn't sound like anyone is pew pewing anyone in the world you describe. The fear of low sec and 0.0 is the lifeblood of Eve. Removing it is like castrating a prize bull

Mad

Complacency's Bane
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.08 14:52:00 - [222]
 

Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 08/10/2006 17:32:58
Originally by: Dynast
And they adapted and ignore low sec in favor of places where they don't get sniped. And your lot come to the boards and complain they don't get enough action.

Face it: you've made low sec space suck to live in. You can get something close to double your money missioning in low sec, but the vast majority (90% or more?) mission in high sec, because the risks posed by low sec are not competitive or challenging, they're stupid and lame.
No, the game was adapted for them. Every piece of game content that exists was placed into .5+ (thanks to lvl 4 missions), making low-sec irrelevant.

Lvl 4 missions have been slowly getting 'rebalanced', but thats a losing fight - its broken to have battleships spawning on demand in high-security space, and they need to be removed alltogether from highsec.

As a point of fact, you make something like 30% more LP and isk from mission rewards in lowsec - bounties are the same, which makes up the majority of mission income.

Brucette
Posted - 2006.10.08 15:06:00 - [223]
 

There have been two main themes running throughout this thread:

1) income in hisec is far too easy.
- Definitely. Large numbers of pirates earn their actual cash that way.

2) pirates just want PVP.
- The only bright light here is that several pirates have already mentioned that this is total garbage. In fact, I have never observed any attempt at turning these efforts into income either. Despite being blobbed at belts on occasion, they haven't even bothered to grab my can.
Frankly, "Pirate PVP" == "Cheap Thrills".

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.08 15:51:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: Brucette
2) pirates just want PVP.
- The only bright light here is that several pirates have already mentioned that this is total garbage. In fact, I have never observed any attempt at turning these efforts into income either. Despite being blobbed at belts on occasion, they haven't even bothered to grab my can.
Frankly, "Pirate PVP" == "Cheap Thrills".

umm...where has anyone said that they don't want a great fight? 90% of pirates would prefer an awesome 1v1 than a blob. It is just that heavy wcs use has forced us to blob people so that they will not run away and we don't massacre our setups with more than 3 20km scrams

jerrard iceni
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.08 16:05:00 - [225]
 

Originally by: Ryle
Originally by: Cipher7
The assumption should be that if you're mining in lowsec, the extra proceeds from the minerals should more than cover the cost of your losses, so that you can continue to operate there.

Same goes with rats.

The assumption should be that if you're ratting in lowsec, the additional bounties should more than cover your losses for being in lowsec.

Currently the risk/reward is not in line.

But yes, lowsec SHOULD be as dangerous as it is. The rewards simply need to acknowledge this fact.

Deep 0.0 is a joke. All reward No risk.
Ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!

.


/signed


the reward doesnt match the risk. i know of a 0.4 system that has a 4/10 complex, 2 icebelts and 16 normal belts. its got 4 gates leading in, 3 of which are from high sec systems - yet the system is nearly always empty. there are no pirates there (except for the me when i want to run the hive). but like i said, its always empty. from there i could jump a few systems into high sec and ill find 30 odd people mining in a very small ice belt, more than a few of them afk (thanks for the free ice btwLaughing)

Brucette
Posted - 2006.10.08 16:15:00 - [226]
 

Edited by: Brucette on 08/10/2006 16:16:56
Originally by: Samirol
umm...where has anyone said that they don't want a great fight?


Hmmm - I was miss-attributing a perfectly reasonable comment on page7 by Tommy(?) [the minmatar miner]

Originally by: Samirol
90% of pirates would prefer an awesome 1v1 than a blob. It is just that heavy wcs use has forced us to blob people so that they will not run away and we don't massacre our setups with more than 3 20km scrams


.... and heavy WCS use is required because if you pack damage/mining/travel mods, then you only need one lamer to find you.
I have been attacked periodically, but only once have I ever been in a ship with weapons. It's not even like they try to extort money off you.
To be honest, it looks much more like sexual frustration than any noble desire for combat.

jerrard iceni
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.08 16:27:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: Dynast

Face it: you've made low sec space suck to live in. You can get something close to double your money missioning in low sec, but the vast majority (90% or more?) mission in high sec, because the risks posed by low sec are not competitive or challenging, they're stupid and lame.


my character has lived in low-sec for nearly his whole life, from my humble noob days in a carebear corp up to now and the above quote is the biggest load of rubbish i have ever read onthis forum.

- low sec is supposed to be more risky than high sec. just like 0.0 is supposed to be more risky than low sec. atm this isnt the case.

- peeps mine in high sec and deep 0.0 because there isnt any risk what so ever and the rewards are greater than low sec

- peeps run missions in high sec because there no risks and the rewards are the same/ if not greater than in low sec.

- the number of pirates and pirate corps in low sec is actually quite a small part of the low sec population.

- blobs and gatecamps happen. they happen in 0.0 - especially around the high sec systems. its part of the game. its still not as common as some of the carebears on here are making out. there isnt a blob waiting on every gate in low sec. plus, if u made an effort to use the map then u could easily avoid the problem systems.

- in response to that guy whose corp lost 6-8 retrievers and loads of other ships in low sec, didnt u learn anything? low sec is easy to live in, if u take a few precautions. did u fly with local open? did u make safespots? did ur corp make any sort of effort to equip some ships out for pvp to protect ur miners?

all i hear from people who blame pirates for low sec being empty is "i tried to live in low sec as if it was high sec, i wasnt careful and i got blobbed by a gang of 50 pirates. they wanted a ransom, i refused. i died. i hate pirates"


carleyjones
Caldari
Blood and Silver
Posted - 2006.10.08 16:37:00 - [228]
 


i have an idea regarding bounty hunting. if u want to bounty hunt then u have to buy a commision from concord, with there being different levels of commision. for example 1st lvl commision allows u to attack anyone with a bounty on them in high sec without retaliation from concord/gate guns. 2nd lvl commision allows u to attack anyone with bounties on them in low sec without gate guns firing on you. etc. granted this system could be exploited but it is just a rough idea atm.

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.08 18:20:00 - [229]
 

Originally by: carleyjones

i have an idea regarding bounty hunting. if u want to bounty hunt then u have to buy a commision from concord, with there being different levels of commision. for example 1st lvl commision allows u to attack anyone with a bounty on them in high sec without retaliation from concord/gate guns. 2nd lvl commision allows u to attack anyone with bounties on them in low sec without gate guns firing on you. etc. granted this system could be exploited but it is just a rough idea atm.
way too exploitable.

@brucette: Ransoming has died as part of the adaptations to wcs and ecm

Dynast
Osirians Of Eve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.08 18:53:00 - [230]
 

You must understand this:

Avoiding snipers and blobs camping gates is not challenging and fun, it's stupid and lame, and the people living in Empire space want no part of it, no matter what the rewards are.

I'd have no problem moving every level four agent above qual 0 out to low sec or 0.0 space for other reasons, but this wouldn't do what you want. Players who are serious about missioning for profit would refocus on doing level threes in HACs, players who are serious about missioning for fun would continue missioning where they are. Neither of these groups would really gain from eating ship losses now and then to the vagaries of low sec life.

I've heard "we do it for the ISK" five or six times on this thread, like on pretty much every "snipers suck" thread. It doesn't matter why you do it, just like it doesn't matter why escrow scammers do what they do: it's lame. Escrow scamming is obviously a whole order of magnitude lamer, but that doesn't make the sniping any less lame.

If low sec living players want more neighbors to play with, they're gonna have to address the real problem with low sec space: themselves. Not an easy task, surely, but it's really the only way to actually make a dent in the problem.

Complacency's Bane
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.08 19:20:00 - [231]
 

Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 08/10/2006 19:21:35
Fine, stay in empire and mine omber / run lvl 3 missions. I dont care.

The fact is, lvl 4 missions are low-sec content which fell into highsec due to a failure of vision and foresight. Before they existed, people could run lvl 3 missions in HACs, and you actually saw people in lowsec doing something other then supersafespot lvl4 missions.

Low-sec space needs an isk buff. Mainly in ores and belt NPCs. Low-level battleship spawns would be fine - hell, if that was unbalancing, then lvl 4 missions chain-spawning high-level battleship spawns must really be whacked. Mission safespots need to be moved down onto the system plane so theyre reasonably probeable. Gate guns need more range, because sniping is stupid and needs to go. Lvl 4 missions in high-sec need to just straight disappear - move all the agents around to various low-sec systems to try to disperse the lowsec mission hubs. I would like to see warp bubbles in lowsec which catch anyone who's got a PvP flag active (criminal or non-criminal).

That would be balanced. You go to lowsec and take the risks to make more money. Not you go to lowsec and take the risks and get 30% more LP.

Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2006.10.08 20:58:00 - [232]
 

Originally by: Dynast
You must understand this:

Avoiding snipers and blobs camping gates is not challenging and fun, it's stupid and lame, and the people living in Empire space want no part of it, no matter what the rewards are.

I'd have no problem moving every level four agent above qual 0 out to low sec or 0.0 space for other reasons, but this wouldn't do what you want. Players who are serious about missioning for profit would refocus on doing level threes in HACs, players who are serious about missioning for fun would continue missioning where they are. Neither of these groups would really gain from eating ship losses now and then to the vagaries of low sec life.

I've heard "we do it for the ISK" five or six times on this thread, like on pretty much every "snipers suck" thread. It doesn't matter why you do it, just like it doesn't matter why escrow scammers do what they do: it's lame. Escrow scamming is obviously a whole order of magnitude lamer, but that doesn't make the sniping any less lame.

If low sec living players want more neighbors to play with, they're gonna have to address the real problem with low sec space: themselves. Not an easy task, surely, but it's really the only way to actually make a dent in the problem.


I disagree, and I think your solution is no solution. Changes in game mechanics can and are what will change behavior--pirate and carebear alike--and is in fact almost the only feasible way to do so on a large scale.

It's just a matter of coming up with the right ideas and balancing them. That isn't an easy task either, but unlike trying to change people's behavior in a vaccuum, it actually has some hope of success...if CCP is listening.

So I'd suggest coming up with some ideas. What would get you to LowSec, given that there *will* be pirating there? Better rewards? What kind? Easier jump clones? The ability to protect yourself or police systems? Things we haven't thought of yet?

Fewer camps? Ok, how would you discourage them?

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.08 21:10:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: Tsanse Kinske

Fewer camps? Ok, how would you discourage them?
well, this is fairly straight forward. With a recon cruiser, get a bunch of points on them, scram at least one to hell, get him. If it gets to the point where its not profitable, they will move.

Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2006.10.08 22:25:00 - [234]
 

Originally by: Samirol
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske

Fewer camps? Ok, how would you discourage them?
well, this is fairly straight forward. With a recon cruiser, get a bunch of points on them, scram at least one to hell, get him. If it gets to the point where its not profitable, they will move.


Sure, it's great that it's possible to do that already.

But this thread's more about improvements to the existing game. There's not a whole lot of campbusting going on in LowSec that I know of compared to 0.0, even in NPC 0.0. Why? I'm not experienced enough with 0.0 to understand all the reasons, but I think a big one is that the rewards for getting into LowSec in the first place aren't quite where they should be. Consequently there's little reason to break up most camps for the effort involved.


Complacency's Bane
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.08 22:50:00 - [235]
 

Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
But this thread's more about improvements to the existing game. There's not a whole lot of campbusting going on in LowSec that I know of compared to 0.0, even in NPC 0.0. Why? I'm not experienced enough with 0.0 to understand all the reasons, but I think a big one is that the rewards for getting into LowSec in the first place aren't quite where they should be. Consequently there's little reason to break up most camps for the effort involved.
Snipers arent worth going after, and most camps are snipers. People tanking the guns are a glowy red target in a very vulnerable spot, they get busted up all the time.

Brucette
Posted - 2006.10.08 22:57:00 - [236]
 

Originally by: Tsanse Kinske

--pirate and carebear alike--



Pirates have, in general, a massive hangup about this.

While there have been a number of people who identify themselves as "pirates" on this thread being quite constructive and genuinely looking to alleviate the boredom of their gatecamping, I'm afraid I don't think the situation is likely to change until the profession becomes less trendy (so the overwhelming number of f-wits that currently infest losec will find something more glamerous to do).

Regarding WCSs, people who pack zillions of stabs are generally also lame pirates. Missionrunners can't gimp their setup that badly.

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.08 23:03:00 - [237]
 

Edited by: Samirol on 08/10/2006 23:04:16
Originally by: Brucette
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske

--pirate and carebear alike--



Pirates have, in general, a massive hangup about this.

While there have been a number of people who identify themselves as "pirates" on this thread being quite constructive and genuinely looking to alleviate the boredom of their gatecamping, I'm afraid I don't think the situation is likely to change until the profession becomes less trendy (so the overwhelming number of f-wits that currently infest losec will find something more glamerous to do).

Regarding WCSs, people who pack zillions of stabs are generally also lame pirates. Missionrunners can't gimp their setup that badly.


Alright, so you want to make the profession less trendy, meaning nerf it to hell?

Most pirates don't use WCS, the minority do.

Mission runners aren't usually the ones with the WCS, its the npcers more times than not.

Mission runners are hard to pick out since they aren't on the same plane as the rest of the system during missions.

Complacency's Bane
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.08 23:04:00 - [238]
 

Originally by: Brucette
Pirates have, in general, a massive hangup about this.

While there have been a number of people who identify themselves as "pirates" on this thread being quite constructive and genuinely looking to alleviate the boredom of their gatecamping, I'm afraid I don't think the situation is likely to change until the profession becomes less trendy (so the overwhelming number of f-wits that currently infest losec will find something more glamerous to do).

Regarding WCSs, people who pack zillions of stabs are generally also lame pirates. Missionrunners can't gimp their setup that badly.
Most of the good pirates quit piracy because of how idiotic it is (I know I did). Most of the pirates who are left are people who actually think sniping from 200k isnt idiotic.

Sure, its something you have to do thanks to the game being broken - just like I have to put ECM on everything - but if you like that you have to do it, theres something wrong with you.

Brucette
Posted - 2006.10.08 23:59:00 - [239]
 

Edited by: Brucette on 09/10/2006 00:00:23
Originally by: Samirol

Alright, so you want to make the profession less trendy, meaning nerf it to hell?



Dude - study history. Bandwagons beget bandwagoneers, who are generally lame.

Originally by: Samirol

Most pirates don't use WCS, the minority do.



I invite you to read through one of the many WCS threads in Ships+Fittings. You will note that people are mostly complaining about sniping gankers that can't be pinned down.

Originally by: Samirol

Mission runners aren't usually the ones with the WCS, its the npcers more times than not.

Mission runners are hard to pick out since they aren't on the same plane as the rest of the system during missions.


The intent of missions is not to provide pirates with easy kills. Note they no longer have missions in open space (near gates, near stations) any more. why, I wonder?

My ferox has no stabs, because if I meet any pirates they will be blobbed. If I packed the 4 points of stab necessary to reliably get me out of trouble, I would be slain in the missions...

Complacency's Bane
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.09 00:08:00 - [240]
 

Originally by: Brucette
The intent of missions is not to provide pirates with easy kills. Note they no longer have missions in open space (near gates, near stations) any more. why, I wonder?

Because mission runners kited non-deadspace missions, causing them to be utterly riskless in every sense of the word, and deadspace missions cant take place at gates/stations.

Any further questions about things you should know if youre participating in this debate?


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