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Ryle
Righteous-Indignation
Posted - 2006.10.04 15:37:00 - [151]
 

Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler
If you want lowsec to be home to more players from highsecmake it feel safer for them and increase the rewards. Eve, we are constantly told is about risk and reward - dont make the rewards of high sec lower, that antagonises people, tempt them into lowsec don't tyr to force them.
Not many people are saying lower the reward in high-sec. What they are saying is increase the reward in low-sec. I liked the idea posted earlier of NPCs in low-sec having buy orders for goods at high prices. Between that and giving 0.4-0.1 stuff like hedbergite/hemorphite you've got a lot more reason for players to do stuff in lowsec.

I don't do any mining (obviously) but I'm willing to bet that people would be more willing to take the risk of mining in areas with players like me around if there were some mid/high-end ore, because it'd be significantly more profitable (and would make mining barge losses a lot easier to take).

Darkenral
Posted - 2006.10.04 17:03:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: kill0rbunny
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 04/10/2006 14:21:16
I am a mission runner and only PvP for fun, because Mission Running in Caldari Ships is boring, as they are too easy.
At the moment I do Missions in a Ferox to pay for my ships i ruin in PvP against stronger Opponents in Lowsec.

I wouldn't see much of a problem by moving all Level 4 Missions to Lowsec, as there are modules to prevent someone from beeing ganked.
A Raven with two wcs will not easily be ganked by any player at any time. But why should one risk his Raven in Lowsec if he has Level 4 Agents in Highsec he can use and makes even faster money when putting two bcs in for the wcs.

Bein able to do Level 4 only in Lowsec would certainly populate it a bit more.
Think i would buy WCS BPOs then as they would be in great demand. Rolling Eyes



Thats the silliest thing I have read on this thread.

A) Most mission runners pack the lightest tank that will get the job done to pack as many damage mods as they can to finish the mission as quick as possible.

B) 2 WCS are not enough to avoid a gank squad and the loss of lows will ruin a decent mission fit on any ship

C) I have said it before and I will say it again PVE loadouts != PVP loadouts different resists / different mods / etc etc

PVP Loadouts SUCK @ PVE
PVE Loadouts SUCK @ PVP

Only an idiot does a job w/the wrong tool.

Any attempt to force ppl to expose their high end boats (faction - faction fitted) to 4-5 gankers in bc'ers / AF's / hell maybe even 4-5 cruisers (W/is all it would take)to pop 1 will meet with failure.

A different solution must be found.

DARK

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.04 23:56:00 - [153]
 


Brucette
Posted - 2006.10.05 06:09:00 - [154]
 

From the other thread:

"...even I go back to Empire from time to time to run missions to make money. Zero risk for me and depending on what missions I get maybe 20-30 mil per hour... That's not right at all. Come on guys, live a little! Come to lowsec"

I think this really just illustrates why people who actually live in lowsec think most pirates are lame.

Celeste Storm
Posted - 2006.10.05 06:57:00 - [155]
 

So after 6 pages we still have no idea how to populate low sec.

so what is th real problem? its plain and simple: pirat blobs/gank squads/gate camper. Does anybody want them? No. Except those who are doing the same. Before you start your rant, let me tell ya this: I want pirats, I dont want them to be removed. But I want to fight them without penalities.

Atm I cannot and will not seriously do any Bounty Hunting simple because I'd become an outlaw too. The whole system is stupid to hell and back. CCP had made a huge mistake not to implement a working bounty hunting/ law enforcing system.

Why are pirates pirates? I have to guess here, but I see two reasons:

a) they like the idea of being an outlaw (which is absolutly fine with me)

b) they like to PvP (I also have no problems with it)

If it would be possible to hunt down and kill pirats without sec hits or even with a small sec boost (depending on the sec rating of the pirat) it would encourage lots of bounty hunters to go out for their prey.

Actually even a small corp with 30 members could secure a system and attract mission runners this way. Those could pay a reasonable fee for the security and both would benefit.

Pirates had their fun and PvP but now in a more balanced way. I will not support an general "move all L4 agents to low sec proposal" but I could live with the "move all +Q L4 agent there and boost the rewards" idea.

Anywhy, despite of the things mentioned above, I want you guys at CCP to think about mission hubs. Destroy them! Move agents to new and EMPTY systems (high sec/low sec). Dont let more than one L4 agent in a single system.

Cel.

Demonique
Minmatar
WOLFPACK DELTA
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.05 07:53:00 - [156]
 

Thanks for all the replies guys ShockedShocked

I'm going to spend some time this evening reading through everything, and then i will write a "proposal to CCP" using all of your best idea's....... this proposal WILL try and be fair to all concerned... regardless of the fact that i am a pirate.

So, keep your eyes peeled for the official eve onliine forum suggestions for Low sec.... ill post the article in this thread to avoid the wrath of Mod

YARRRR!!ughYARRRR!!


Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.05 12:38:00 - [157]
 

Celeste, you have advocated game breaking mechanics that would severely reduce the numbers of pirates. You complain about wanting to get pirates getting easy kills, us wanting to crush your gameplay style, but you are trying to do the exact thing.

Now, i think that getting a sec boost for killing an outlaw sounds great, although it should be a very small boost, so it can't be easily abused.

I also agree with the "move all level 4s higher than q 0" proposal. It doesn't break anyone's game, but adjusts it so that a demographic shift will occur.

Now, going with bounty hunting missions for real pirates would be GREAT as an optional mission for big isk. I am all for increasing the anti-pirate - pirate interaction, but trojan's idea for having the bounty subtracted from your wallet and multiplied by your sec is a ridiculous, game breaking idea (if it were implemented)


Celeste Storm
Posted - 2006.10.05 15:06:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Samirol
Celeste, you have advocated game breaking mechanics that would severely reduce the numbers of pirates. You complain about wanting to get pirates getting easy kills, us wanting to crush your gameplay style, but you are trying to do the exact thing.


Thx for ur reply mate, but pls tell me where I want to crush ur gameplay. I re-read my last post and honestly didnt find anything in it which would really ruin a pirates way of life. All it would do is to make it harder by adding a true foe. Atm there is no real player controlled law enforcement. I'm sure u understand that I cannot hunt you pirates without becomming an outlaw too (which I dont what for some obvious reasons).

Cel.

Ryle
Righteous-Indignation
Posted - 2006.10.05 16:56:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Celeste Storm
Originally by: Samirol
Celeste, you have advocated game breaking mechanics that would severely reduce the numbers of pirates. You complain about wanting to get pirates getting easy kills, us wanting to crush your gameplay style, but you are trying to do the exact thing.


Thx for ur reply mate, but pls tell me where I want to crush ur gameplay. I re-read my last post and honestly didnt find anything in it which would really ruin a pirates way of life. All it would do is to make it harder by adding a true foe. Atm there is no real player controlled law enforcement. I'm sure u understand that I cannot hunt you pirates without becomming an outlaw too (which I dont what for some obvious reasons).

Cel.
If bounties were subtracted from my wallet when I got podded, every time I got a bounty higher than the cost of my clone I would clonejump to my implant-less clone and pod myself with my alt, and send the money back to myself.

How's that?

(He wasn't referring to your last post, he was referring to that suggestion)

Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2006.10.05 18:01:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Demonique
Thanks for all the replies guys ShockedShocked

I'm going to spend some time this evening reading through everything, and then i will write a "proposal to CCP" using all of your best idea's....... this proposal WILL try and be fair to all concerned... regardless of the fact that i am a pirate.

So, keep your eyes peeled for the official eve onliine forum suggestions for Low sec.... ill post the article in this thread to avoid the wrath of Mod

YARRRR!!ughYARRRR!!




You should also check out this thread.

nTime
Posted - 2006.10.05 18:52:00 - [161]
 

There is another fairly easy fix. Simply get rid of local chat ID. Keep local chat, just remove the ability to see who/how many is in the local system. This is what scanners should be for anyway.

Gate camping is for corps in 0.0.

My limited observation about EvE so far indicates a huge griefing issue that has been left unchecked. Now you see here, the griefers are complaining about having nothing to do. Well maybe you should make alts and play the other side for a while and provide your own fodder, oh wait...what is that? Ah yes, all the pirate types i've seen here, don't have the cajones to fight in any reasonable battle with any where near having a close match.

Oh, that isn't the real issue is it? The real issue is the size of your epeen. You must have cheap kills for the killboard, anyway you can get them. No folks, for the majority of gankers it is mostly about percieved power. "I'm better than you because I can kill you and there is nothing you can do about it" These are the same wife beaters and baby killers you see in the news everyday. Sure it is all a game, escapism. Keep thinking that is a good way to rationalise dishonorable conduct and bad behavior.

What goes around comes around.

What do I know...I'm just a noob.

Ellandrian D'Amerathe
Posted - 2006.10.05 18:59:00 - [162]
 

Quote:
There is another fairly easy fix. Simply get rid of local chat ID. Keep local chat, just remove the ability to see who/how many is in the local system. This is what scanners should be for anyway.


What does this really fix?

I agree it should be done, but it does not fix anything about low sec, just makes things more difficult on both sides. Pirates can not easily tell if targets are in a system, and the miners, mission runners, ratters can not tell when pirates jump in. The edge actually goes to to the pirates / pvpers because those are the folks who tend to know how to use the scanner well.

Although I have to admit the local channel makes sense from a roleplay perspective if you have ever had any knowledge of controlled access or security. Records of who jumped in, who jumped out would almost certainly be kept if it were a real world (universe) situation, leaving you with an accurate picture of who is in the system.

nTime
Posted - 2006.10.05 20:03:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: Ellandrian D'Amerathe


What does this really fix?

I agree it should be done, but it does not fix anything about low sec, just makes things more difficult on both sides. Pirates can not easily tell if targets are in a system, and the miners, mission runners, ratters can not tell when pirates jump in. The edge actually goes to to the pirates / pvpers because those are the folks who tend to know how to use the scanner well.



1) I believe it would make it much more of a challenge for all. If you had no idea that danger is lurking just around the next asteroid or over in that debris. For those who like to stalk their prey, it would make the game much better.

2) you're not supposed to know who just jumped into the system. If you are curious or get a bad feeling then you should scan or probe.

Scanning in space should be natural and automatic, if you are to survive the hostile environment. Things happen to the complacent in space. If you let your guard down at all or have the slightest lapse in judgement then death becomes the word of the day.

Knowing all I have do is look at local to see who just jumped in, then target that person, makes ganking way too easy. Why do you need radar or anything else when there is a local display telling you exactly who is in the system? Local chat is one thing local targeting is another thing entirely.

I do like the bounty ideas from earlier. I think making it increasingly difficult on the underworld types, the further they get into secured space is a needed change. Making certain ores only available in low sec is a good idea too.


Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2006.10.05 21:02:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: nTime
There is another fairly easy fix. Simply get rid of local chat ID. Keep local chat, just remove the ability to see who/how many is in the local system. This is what scanners should be for anyway.

Gate camping is for corps in 0.0.

My limited observation about EvE so far indicates a huge griefing issue that has been left unchecked. Now you see here, the griefers are complaining about having nothing to do. Well maybe you should make alts and play the other side for a while and provide your own fodder, oh wait...what is that? Ah yes, all the pirate types i've seen here, don't have the cajones to fight in any reasonable battle with any where near having a close match.

Oh, that isn't the real issue is it? The real issue is the size of your epeen. You must have cheap kills for the killboard, anyway you can get them. No folks, for the majority of gankers it is mostly about percieved power. "I'm better than you because I can kill you and there is nothing you can do about it" These are the same wife beaters and baby killers you see in the news everyday. Sure it is all a game, escapism. Keep thinking that is a good way to rationalise dishonorable conduct and bad behavior.

What goes around comes around.

What do I know...I'm just a noob.


Hopefully when you get a little more experience you'll figure out how absurd your generalizations and armchair psychological analysis really is. I'd find it offensive to be honest, except closeminded viewpoints like the one you're posting are a dime a dozen on these forums, and not limited to newbs, vets, carebears, or pirates I'm sorry to say.


Thoris Levithar
Gallente
Gadget Factory
Posted - 2006.10.05 21:39:00 - [165]
 

Another suggestion: change the rules so that podkilling gets you Concord'ed in low-sec. So, you could attack and destroy ships without problem, but pod-kill someone and you will lose your ship to Concord. Leaves piracy as a viable way of living, but takes a lot of potential "grief" play away from low-sec (and I think thats holding a lot of people back from going to low-sec).

But I still think that for many people its implant costs why they avoid the risk of low-sec/pvp. Any player with a bit of experience won't cry about a few millions of insurance/fittings lost for a ship. But 100+ million for a full set of good implants? Just today I got my first +4 implant, checked market and prices start at 50m...thats for ONE implant! Not even going to bother plugging that in, risk of losing it just too high.

Of course, making it so that you could unplug implants without destroying them would be the easiest solution, and would follow the "don't use what you can't afford to lose" philosophy.

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.06 00:53:00 - [166]
 

Edited by: Samirol on 06/10/2006 00:54:47
Edited by: Samirol on 06/10/2006 00:53:41
Originally by: Thoris Levithar
Another suggestion: change the rules so that podkilling gets you Concord'ed in low-sec. So, you could attack and destroy ships without problem, but pod-kill someone and you will lose your ship to Concord. Leaves piracy as a viable way of living, but takes a lot of potential "grief" play away from low-sec (and I think thats holding a lot of people back from going to low-sec).

But I still think that for many people its implant costs why they avoid the risk of low-sec/pvp. Any player with a bit of experience won't cry about a few millions of insurance/fittings lost for a ship. But 100+ million for a full set of good implants? Just today I got my first +4 implant, checked market and prices start at 50m...thats for ONE implant! Not even going to bother plugging that in, risk of losing it just too high.

Of course, making it so that you could unplug implants without destroying them would be the easiest solution, and would follow the "don't use what you can't afford to lose" philosophy.

eve is supposed to have loss in it, not some adsent minded pve game with a dash of pvp.

JCs need to be changed to 12 hours or 6 hours, instead of 24 hours so you can jump into a non-implanted body.

and celeste, i was referring to advocating bounty subtraction on the second page i think it was


also check this thread, has some interesting points before getting modded.

Risien Drogonne
Shadow Gypsies
R i s e
Posted - 2006.10.06 02:05:00 - [167]
 

I like the unpluggable implants idea.

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.06 02:45:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Risien Drogonne
I like the unpluggable implants idea.
i think lowering JC time limit would be better, so implant prices don't drop horribly

Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2006.10.06 02:51:00 - [169]
 

Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 06/10/2006 02:51:45
Part of me just rebels at the idea of unpluggable implants and easier jump clones. These are challenges that make EVE interesting to me. Should I buy these implants if I'm going to be playing in LowSec? Should I go into that system with these implants? Uh-oh, this fight isn't going well, I wonder how much money I lose if I get podded... They provide some of the "real loss" potential that I like in this game.

But yall are probably right, easing up on the rules would probably get a few more people into LowSec space.

Unpluggable implants are probably less cheesy overall. Even as they are now, Jump Clones break a lot of EVE principles, in the hands of well-established players especially.

Either implants or slots should still have restrictions on them though to prevent them just being traded in and out as needed. That would still preserve some of their character as something different than interchangable modules for your head.


Cipher7
Posted - 2006.10.06 04:04:00 - [170]
 


Knuckleheads.

Why you think Lowsec is called L O W S E C

Because its low freakin security.

I agree that the reward is not in line with the risk.

The assumption should be that if you're mining in lowsec, the extra proceeds from the minerals should more than cover the cost of your losses, so that you can continue to operate there.

Same goes with rats.

The assumption should be that if you're ratting in lowsec, the additional bounties should more than cover your losses for being in lowsec.

Currently the risk/reward is not in line.

But yes, lowsec SHOULD be as dangerous as it is. The rewards simply need to acknowledge this fact.

Deep 0.0 is a joke. All reward No risk.

Ryle
Righteous-Indignation
Posted - 2006.10.06 04:19:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Cipher7
The assumption should be that if you're mining in lowsec, the extra proceeds from the minerals should more than cover the cost of your losses, so that you can continue to operate there.

Same goes with rats.

The assumption should be that if you're ratting in lowsec, the additional bounties should more than cover your losses for being in lowsec.

Currently the risk/reward is not in line.

But yes, lowsec SHOULD be as dangerous as it is. The rewards simply need to acknowledge this fact.

Deep 0.0 is a joke. All reward No risk.
Ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Exactly what I've been saying.

Thoris Levithar
Gallente
Gadget Factory
Posted - 2006.10.06 06:55:00 - [172]
 

Originally by: Samirol
eve is supposed to have loss in it, not some adsent minded pve game with a dash of pvp.

JCs need to be changed to 12 hours or 6 hours, instead of 24 hours so you can jump into a non-implanted body.

also check this thread, has some interesting points before getting modded.


Samirol I see your point, but we are talking about getting more people into low-sec here. The players who ARE there likely use jump clones already, and have NO real loss if they get podded. Its not that easy for newer players to get jump clones (this has been said often enough).

Also just to point out, in the end your suggestion of lowering jump clone usage time serves the same purpose as unpluggable implants...to avoid heavy losses when you get podded.

Complacency's Bane
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.06 07:04:00 - [173]
 

There needs to be a reason for people to go out to belts in lowsec. That means there needs to be better ore and low-level battleship spawns in lowsec.

Mission safespots also need to be placed on the plane of the system so its actually reasonably possible to scan them down before hell freezes over.

As for pirates, remove the sentry response to aggression flagging which has been a stupid idea ever since it was introduced (sentries only respond to aggression they 'see'), and raise sentry range to 250k.

Fix the problem where people who return fire dont get killrights if theyve been criminally engaged, and introduce CONCORD agents which help track people remotely who you have killrights on. Allow killrights to be traded between corpmates (I have concerns over allowing killrights to be freely traded, seems like it would be altabusetastic).

I would also like to see the navy response to security status removed in highsec - if you get outlaws moving around in areas with lots of people, you'll start getting more incidental PvP. It doesnt do anything now anyway, since everyone just hauls ships with alts.

I think thats just about all I can think of. Rewards for being in belts and whatnot in low-sec is the big one, without it theres no reason to bother changing anything else.

Celeste Storm
Posted - 2006.10.06 09:03:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Samirol
JCs need to be changed to 12 hours or 6 hours, instead of 24 hours so you can jump into a non-implanted body.

I like this idea (i think I already mentioned it by myself on page 1 or 2 of this thread Wink).
I understand that nobody with half a brain would risk its expensive crystal/slave/halo/whatever implant set in a PvP situation.

Originally by: Samirol
and celeste, i was referring to advocating bounty subtraction on the second page i think it was

yeah I checked this, re-read my post about trojamans suggestion. it might have caused misunderstanding. what I liked about his idea was the actual impact on the pirat. also it is a bit too much imo. here is what i suggested instead (taken from my post on page2):

Originally by: Celeste Storm
A bounty should add a lot more risk for the player who have it on his head. Also it should be possible to attack players with bounties AND negative standing in highsec. ofc the outlaw can fight back in such a case.

This suggestion will only make sense if CCP starts to implement a working bounty hunter profession. That means:

No sec.-loss when attacking a pirat in low/high sec (maybe even a smal boost depending on his/her sec status).

As long as this is not implemented, there is virtually no difference between a good a bad guy. I can simply do PvP but not roleplay my char, which ths game is all about (no its not a ego shooter, it calles itself a MMORPG, a abbreviation which INCLUDES the word R O L E P L A Y Wink).

Originally by: Samirol
also check this thread, has some interesting points before getting modded.

I've already read ur thread yesterday. I'm a bit biased about ur No.5 but I think this could be part of the compromise. Wink
Unfortunatly some people didnt followed the discussion here in this thread so u will have to fight them again in ur new thread. Confused

Cel.

Caliwyrm O'Libr
Token Ring Assembly
Posted - 2006.10.06 18:03:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: Maximillian Power


What it comes down to is the likelihood of being attacked and destroyed. It is higher now - presumably due to the higher number of pirates. If the chances of being attacked and destroyed were lower then more people would take a chance. Simple tbh

The pirate business is putting itself out of business due to popping shuttles without scanning etc.


QFT. I venture into low sec space from time to time for different reasons (usually for a mission and *never* with anything valuable in my hold) and I don't know whether to laugh or cry at all of the snipers in battleships who take shots from 187km+ away at my shuttle at a gate. Getting into PvP *fights* can be fun for both sides--getting sniped from people who will warp out if/as soon as you get a lock on them isn't any fun what so ever.

Most of the people I talk to in the game don't go into low sec simply because they believe (usually rightfully so) they won't make more than 2 or 3 hops before they hit a gate camp and get sent home to the cloning bay. And even *if* they do make it to somewhere in low sec to set up a base of operations (to run missions, mine, etc) how long before they get tired of being shot at all the time for no better rewards than high sec?

Complacency's Bane
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.06 18:05:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: Caliwyrm O'Libr
QFT. I venture into low sec space from time to time for different reasons (usually for a mission and *never* with anything valuable in my hold) and I don't know whether to laugh or cry at all of the snipers in battleships who take shots from 187km+ away at my shuttle at a gate. Getting into PvP *fights* can be fun for both sides--getting sniped from people who will warp out if/as soon as you get a lock on them isn't any fun what so ever.

Most of the people I talk to in the game don't go into low sec simply because they believe (usually rightfully so) they won't make more than 2 or 3 hops before they hit a gate camp and get sent home to the cloning bay. And even *if* they do make it to somewhere in low sec to set up a base of operations (to run missions, mine, etc) how long before they get tired of being shot at all the time for no better rewards than high sec?
Sniping in lowsec is like missions in highsec.

You dont do it because its fun, you do it because its a good way to make isk and its not dangerous at all.

Just like lvl 4 missions in highsec, it needs a nerf.

sharkyballs
Amarr
Dkiller Delta Force Corp.
CORPVS DELICTI
Posted - 2006.10.06 19:03:00 - [177]
 

Edited by: sharkyballs on 06/10/2006 19:07:22
ok, to recap:

Originally by: Celeste Storm
Originally by: Natas Dog
Originally by: Celeste Storm
1. If one player attacks another player in empire space (low sec/ high sec) he gets a criminal flagging. With this flag, he is a true outlaw and can be shoot be anybody even in highsec.

2. To get rid of this flagging you must either die (getting killed by another player) or doing a very long and time consuming mission for the concord to actually prove that u want to change your living (not just to farm sec status).

I actually like this idea in theory, but it wouldn't be all that difficult to switch ships and have a buddy vape you to get you back to normal. People being what they are, they'll use the easiest way out of the situation. I suppose if you weren't allowed to switch ships for the duration of this criminal flagging that may work though.

Alright, maybe I was not detailed enough. You can switch ships as much as you want. The flagging is not linked with the ship but with your character. Actually, I never understod what a criminal flagging has to do with a ship. Rolling Eyes

No, if ur flagged you must be killed from somebody who actually as a +sec.status. The whole rediculous thing is: a bounty hunter CANNOT play its role because when he pods somebody he becomes an outlaw aswell. Thats plain and simple stupid.

If a criminal flagging is on somebody's head he is now prey for all bounty hunters. Killing such a criminal would actually raise ur security status, simply because you enforced the law. So a good bounty hunter would never get -sec.status if he only attacks criminals.

This is a balanced system were each role can be played in their true meaning.

And for those who say: "wahhhh, my lil pirate becomes unplayable..." No, but it becomes realistic. Nobody said being a pirate is 100% fun and 0% risk. Now you can be the scum you want to, but need to face the consequences.

Cel.


i think this is the most valid thing said yet. pirates want a quick fix. they can still get it. bounty hunters want to not become pirates by anti pirating, and others just want a little more reward without getting shot at every 5 minutes. bounty hunters can actually "police" systems. fix this problem and it will be worth it. it has nothing to do with market or isk making abilities. it has to do with the fact that pirates roam free in low sec and it's real hard to fight back legitimatly. 0.0 is so alliances can have and control thier wars and space. low sec is for pirating, so why not make it possibly policed by bounty hunters?

as realistic as eve is, the way low sec is now is WAY OFF because of this and nothing else.

Caliwyrm O'Libr
Token Ring Assembly
Posted - 2006.10.06 20:29:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: nTime
There is another fairly easy fix. Simply get rid of local chat ID. Keep local chat, just remove the ability to see who/how many is in the local system. This is what scanners should be for anyway.




That idea would help the prats, actually. Everyone knows where miners will be (asteroid belts) so the prats won't even have to scan, just warp from belt to belt. The only difference is that now the miners won't know when prats enter the system at all.

I've read all 6 pages of this thread and agree with most of the things I've read (from both sides).

-Too little incentive, too much percieved risk
-prats have all the advantages in low-sec
-good/greats PvE setups != good/great PvP setups (and vice versa)-
-'forcing' people into low sec won't work
-neither will punishing Empire players
-gate camps aren't PvP
-If you're ready to 'live' in lowsec just take the jump straight to 0.0
-Anti-prats are currently disadvantaged

Perhaps it is time to add a social skill "Bounty Hunting" that alters your standing with Concord/gate guns to allow you to open fire on outlaws with negative standings without sec loss or Concord interferance. Just so this wouldn't be abused also give it a huge sec loss if you open fire on someone with a standing outside of the level of your BH skill modifier (unless in self-defense).

It just seems that the outlaws/wannabe prats have the deck stacked so far in their favor that there isn't any real incentive to even *try* to play by their rules in low-sec (187km snipes at gate camps, their PvP kit vs your PvE kit, you take the sec loss if you attack first or better yet getting the gate/station guns firing on YOU, their cheap 'disposable' alts in cheap disposable ships, etc)

Portios Smith
DNR
Posted - 2006.10.06 20:50:00 - [179]
 

Edited by: Portios Smith on 06/10/2006 21:06:27
Originally by: sharkyballs
Edited by: sharkyballs on 06/10/2006 19:07:22
ok, to recap:

Originally by: Celeste Storm
Originally by: Natas Dog
Originally by: Celeste Storm

stuff...


stuff...



i think this is the most valid thing said yet. pirates want a quick fix. they can still get it. bounty hunters want to not become pirates by anti pirating, and others just want a little more reward without getting shot at every 5 minutes. bounty hunters can actually "police" systems. fix this problem and it will be worth it. it has nothing to do with market or isk making abilities. it has to do with the fact that pirates roam free in low sec and it's real hard to fight back legitimatly. 0.0 is so alliances can have and control thier wars and space. low sec is for pirating, so why not make it possibly policed by bounty hunters?

as realistic as eve is, the way low sec is now is WAY OFF because of this and nothing else.


Whatever man, most real pirates are blinky and as long as you have the guts to engage one (very unlikely unless in a blob) you can shoot em at will with no consequences other than an angry blinky. Yellow pirates that stay perma-yellow are cowards not worth worring about. I dont consider some one a pirate untill it hits -5.0. so quit whining about how pirate huning is unfair blah blah blah and come to houla where there is always some blinky with a bounty.

I mean realy, there are some many blinky reads in low sec they are the easiest thing to find and if you have the bbs they are the easiest thing to shoot. juts look inocent and dont do it in a blob.

EDIT: A blinky parks his battleship at a gate; he can be engaged by any one with no consequence to the aggressor. Frankly the blinky hopes this will be the case so the sentries will stay out of it. Most times he will have to start aggression and deal with both the prey and the gate's damage. If a big ship jumps in and has the bbs to engage at this point, Mr. Piwat is BBQ.
A non outlaw does not deal with any of this, soothing you gives sec hit and sentry fire. If you are in a Battleship you can engage 2 outlaw BS's and win. A small group of Anti-pirates could easily gate camp in low sec areas and kill many blinkers as they can all open up on tha piwat at will. Is so damn easy I think rating me back to non outlaw and gate camping for outlaws may be the wave of the future for piracy.

sharkyballs
Amarr
Dkiller Delta Force Corp.
CORPVS DELICTI
Posted - 2006.10.06 20:53:00 - [180]
 

Edited by: sharkyballs on 06/10/2006 21:10:45
Edited by: sharkyballs on 06/10/2006 21:01:58
Edited by: sharkyballs on 06/10/2006 20:59:50
Originally by: Caliwyrm O'Libr
Perhaps it is time to add a social skill "Bounty Hunting" that alters your standing with Concord/gate guns to allow you to open fire on outlaws with negative standings without sec loss or Concord interferance. Just so this wouldn't be abused also give it a huge sec loss if you open fire on someone with a standing outside of the level of your BH skill modifier (unless in self-defense).


level one bounty hunting you can fire at -.8 or lower, level two, -.5 or lower sec. that's a great idea. but you'd also need to make it have lots of prerequesite skills and still a sec loss, but not sentry fire to make it not be abused. and you'd have to make it work for positive security status only, or pirates will get it and abuse it. but good idea.

agreed and seconded


EDIT: @portio smith: you can't define pirate as "blinky" if there are still "non blinky" people doing it. the exact wording is not what's imortant here. those "cowards" as you call them still kill people just like the "blinky" ones. the point is that if your problem is not "blinky" pirates, it is harder to do something about it. think before you speak next time. and please don't mistake logic for "whining." it's just a discussion.


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