open All Channels
seplocked Crime and Punishment
blankseplocked Low-Sec : A critique
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (11)

Author Topic

Kaleigh Doyle
Gallente
Racing News Network
Posted - 2006.09.29 16:38:00 - [91]
 

Raising or lowering market fees isn't going to push people to lower security space, especially if no one is there to buy their goods to begin with. Penalizing high sec players alone isn't going to encourage them to come down to play either, they'll just raise prices, or quit playing altogether.

Incentives to live in low security space have dwindled significantly since Cold War and the introduction of L4 agents all but eliminated any interest in low sec mining for a majority of players. Why mine hedbergite at 20mil an hour when you can run a couple missions in high security space and make an equal amount within the same time? Coupled with the introduction of rogue drones that drop the rarer minerals in abundance, it all but killed the low-sec mining profession.

As many have previously stated, people aren't stupid. They go where the best risk/reward is, and that happens to be agents. Oursulaert turned into the HUB it is today because of the abundance of high quality lvl 4 agents, and I'm guessing Rens and Jita weren't much different before the big boom. I run agents in a low security system where there's 10 to 15 people tops on the weekdays, and when I travel to Aunia theres 90+.

Furthermore, pushing agent missions into deadspace is actually reducing the risk and forces "gankers" to camp gates and stations. They should be encouraging missions that can be accessible in ways easier than deploying scan probes. Pirate Blockade and Assault were some of the most dangerous missions for this reason, and now that they're removed there's little to no risk...but I'm ranting a bit and totally off topic. Pardon. Wink

Trust me, I've been in this game for three years, and as a dedicated agent runner, I've seen the differences in playstyle from my fellow "honest" players and the steady dwindling of the mining profession from the game.

So I'll probably be aping what many others have already said, but I'll add my suggested solutions:
1. Move all lvl 4 agents to low security space.
2. Make the mid value ores abundant and plentiful. Jaspet, Hedbergite, Hemorphite...should be plenty of this in the belts. (some border 0.0 regions have worse ore types than some low sec empire regions, which is kinda sad)
3. Make missions just as risky as mining. Even if agents are moved to low sec space, players will still continue to choose missioning over mining if there's little to no risk running them in obscure deadspace locations only reachable with scan probes.

Those are the most important changes that I'd see that might encourage players to return to low security space and might liven the mining profession. Smile

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2006.09.29 16:45:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Karlemgne on 29/09/2006 16:46:06
Originally by: Imechal Ravpeim
Originally by: Trojanman190
I think there should be greater penalties for being a low sec pirate. In 0.0 there are no laws, so there is no reason to lose sec or anything like that. But in .1 - .4 it is still semi lawful space and you take sec hits. There are plenty of -9.0 guys zooming around like it isnt a big deal. Guys like that shouldnt be able to come so far into low sec so easily. And for guys with bounty, there shouldnt just be a reward for the person who kills them... there should be a PENALTY for the person the bounty is on. So say for example our -9 pirate Blackbeard has a 150 mil bounty and he gets whacked by a bounty hunter. The bounty hunter shouldg et the 150 mil like normal... but the pirate should LOSE 150 mil from his wallet as well.... dont give it as an extra to the bounty hunter, just have it disapear, and isk sink. This way having bounties is what it should be: A BAD THING. This would actually give an incentive to put bounties on pirates and it would actually make the bounties pretty painful. YOu could even make it so the lower your sec status, the more your bounty gets multiplied. So a -5 pirate with 20 mil on his head would actually lose 100 mil and his killer would get 20 mil.

I think this would lower the number of low sec pirates zooming around. Less pirates mean more GOOD people. If we get miners and such into low sec then pirates who actually are willing to risk that bounty system could move in and start acting like pirates and the OUTLAWS that they are. Systems in low sec should not be dominated by outlaws... I think this system is beneficial to true pirates because you will actually start seeing cargo ships and such flying through low sec. No more ganking at first sight... you may actually want to start asking for dudes to start ejecting thier cargo like you should...




I love this idea actually... it would give people a use for their security status, would lower inflation since the money would just disappear, and it would make people avoid getting bounties, hence, pirate in general.


Unfortunately for this idea, low sec piracy is necessary for the smooth operation of the EvE economy. If pirates are reduced, the number of new ships needed is reduced, the value of minerals taken out of low sec is reduced, the need for new mods are reduced, the amount of rare minerals that make it out of low sec increase, the number of pirate buyers decreases, the number of anti-pirate buyers decreases, the number of mods and ships on the market increases, the value of everything drops, and the economy becomes stagnent.

So, in conclusion, punishing pirates and reducing "piracy" in low sec systems is a bad idea. Low sec is supposed to be scary, pirates are not supposed to be relagated simply to 0.0. The problem is not that the risk is too high, but rather, that the rewards are too low in both empire low sec and 0.0.

I also think that gatecamps and alliances do discourage people from going to 0.0. The solution? Too many choke points, more enterances to 0.0.

FallenSeraphin
Posted - 2006.09.29 16:49:00 - [93]
 

Dont know how it would work out but what if everytime you did somthing "bad" you are free game to everyone everywhere you go for a set amount of time like if your sec is -1.0 to -1.9 you have a 30 min true "global" countdown where anyone anywhere can kill you no penality. then -2 like 60min, -3 90min, and so on. that way the true pirates will stand out. i think i would really healp clean up low sec and make the game a lot more fun while still sticking to the player driven world eve should be. also the NPS bounty posting thing sounds great can go down the list of bounties and put down colateral for a free shot at him no matter where he is for a certain amount of time maybe limit it to only so many people can go after the same bounty in 1 given time so there cant be 10000000 people go free gang the pirates make it so if you have a bounty or maybe a - sec you cant talk to the NPC so cant get your own bounty? just throwing some ideas out what do you think? Embarassed

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2006.09.29 17:03:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: FallenSeraphin
Dont know how it would work out but what if everytime you did somthing "bad" you are free game to everyone everywhere you go for a set amount of time like if your sec is -1.0 to -1.9 you have a 30 min true "global" countdown where anyone anywhere can kill you no penality. then -2 like 60min, -3 90min, and so on. that way the true pirates will stand out. i think i would really healp clean up low sec and make the game a lot more fun while still sticking to the player driven world eve should be. also the NPS bounty posting thing sounds great can go down the list of bounties and put down colateral for a free shot at him no matter where he is for a certain amount of time maybe limit it to only so many people can go after the same bounty in 1 given time so there cant be 10000000 people go free gang the pirates make it so if you have a bounty or maybe a - sec you cant talk to the NPC so cant get your own bounty? just throwing some ideas out what do you think? Embarassed


I already think that it is a huge hardship on pirates to have a 15 minute global, because, frankly, during that time they can't leave system (gate guns). Making a pirate stuck in a single system for an hour, would be an unfair burden. In fact, any pirate below -5 (like myself) is already "truly global" as I'm kill onsight by anyone, anywhere.

-Karlemgne

Boliknar
Divine Republic Holding LLC.
Posted - 2006.09.29 17:44:00 - [95]
 

I think the thing people fail to realise is that the game has morphed and evolved into a game that offers alot to all types of players. It was mentioned why mine in low sec when missions can be run in high sec for the same profit. Its true that some level four mission do offer a great reward vs little risk. But there are people in this game now, and quite a large number of them, that like Eves PVE aspect. Now whether this was originally an intentiuon of those who created the game is really mute point right now. Those that like to PVE pay just as much for their account and those who do not therefore, being good businessmen CCP will continue to offer something for them. Has mining taken a beating in the PVE vs Mining vs PVP contest? Well yes it has. I think in large part this is due to the fact that Macro-Mining exists. Its impossible to Macro-PVP or PVE.
I think the designers are doint the right thing in trying to keep something for everyone in this game. It's what make Eve a great game with a diverse group of peopl to interact with.

Rekria
Caldari
Sine Qua Non
Posted - 2006.09.29 18:17:00 - [96]
 

I run missions in high security, because I play eve to relax. When I venture out into lowsecurity or even 0.0, I've always gotten tag teamed by gangs of 2 to four pirates. Poof, ship gone, frusteration sets in. I also am interested in setting up a PoS in 0.0 or 0.1, but my friend so aptly points out, why invest hundreds of millions of isk into something that could randomly be destroyed by a corp with a few dreads? Mining in 0.0 can be worth it, but then some pirates can just pull up the map and see "Oh, that system has an average of 2 people in space in the last 30 minutes, lets go gank them." Low seciruty is safer if you travel in groups, but no matter how good your ship is, you're waxed if taken on by superior numbers. Not to mention practically every 0.0 entry point I've seen have huge gatecamps.

As for spreading the population out, CCP already (correct me if i'm wrong) has modified it so big cash missions such as Worlds Collide are low security only now, for which I refuse to go to mission agents in low security anymore because they are all chauk full of pirates who can just warp in and blow your faction bship with 2 bil in equipment needed for WC up.

Why would I want to create stress for myself when playing a game?

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2006.09.29 18:23:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Rekria
I run missions in high security, because I play eve to relax. When I venture out into lowsecurity or even 0.0, I've always gotten tag teamed by gangs of 2 to four pirates. Poof, ship gone, frusteration sets in. I also am interested in setting up a PoS in 0.0 or 0.1, but my friend so aptly points out, why invest hundreds of millions of isk into something that could randomly be destroyed by a corp with a few dreads? Mining in 0.0 can be worth it, but then some pirates can just pull up the map and see "Oh, that system has an average of 2 people in space in the last 30 minutes, lets go gank them." Low seciruty is safer if you travel in groups, but no matter how good your ship is, you're waxed if taken on by superior numbers. Not to mention practically every 0.0 entry point I've seen have huge gatecamps.

As for spreading the population out, CCP already (correct me if i'm wrong) has modified it so big cash missions such as Worlds Collide are low security only now, for which I refuse to go to mission agents in low security anymore because they are all chauk full of pirates who can just warp in and blow your faction bship with 2 bil in equipment needed for WC up.

Why would I want to create stress for myself when playing a game?


You don't come out to low sec much, do you? There are large swaths of low sec that I, a pirate, rat in, and see maybe 1 other person in system in a 10 hour day.

Furthermore, traveling to low sec to mission run really isn't that dangerous. As long as you avoid low sec choke point systems like Amamake, there are very few "pirate" gate camps. Most gate camps are of the anti-pirate variety. Also, I know this sucks, but instas almost, not quite, but almost eliminate any danger of dying at a camp.

-Karlemgne

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2006.09.29 18:26:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Rekria
I run missions in high security, because I play eve to relax. When I venture out into lowsecurity or even 0.0, I've always gotten tag teamed by gangs of 2 to four pirates. Poof, ship gone, frusteration sets in. I also am interested in setting up a PoS in 0.0 or 0.1, but my friend so aptly points out, why invest hundreds of millions of isk into something that could randomly be destroyed by a corp with a few dreads? Mining in 0.0 can be worth it, but then some pirates can just pull up the map and see "Oh, that system has an average of 2 people in space in the last 30 minutes, lets go gank them." Low seciruty is safer if you travel in groups, but no matter how good your ship is, you're waxed if taken on by superior numbers. Not to mention practically every 0.0 entry point I've seen have huge gatecamps.

As for spreading the population out, CCP already (correct me if i'm wrong) has modified it so big cash missions such as Worlds Collide are low security only now, for which I refuse to go to mission agents in low security anymore because they are all chauk full of pirates who can just warp in and blow your faction bship with 2 bil in equipment needed for WC up.

Why would I want to create stress for myself when playing a game?


You don't come out to low sec much, do you? There are large swaths of low sec that I, a pirate, rat in, and see maybe 1 other person in system in a 10 hour day.

Furthermore, traveling to low sec to mission run really isn't that dangerous. As long as you avoid low sec choke point systems like Amamake, there are very few "pirate" gate camps. Most gate camps are of the anti-pirate variety. Also, I know this sucks, but instas almost, not quite, but almost eliminate any danger of dying at a camp.

And, lastly, very, very few pirates in low sec know how to, or use even if the do know how, scan probes. You're safe in almost any mission deadspace.

-Karlemgne

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2006.09.29 18:31:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Boliknar
I think the thing people fail to realise is that the game has morphed and evolved into a game that offers alot to all types of players. It was mentioned why mine in low sec when missions can be run in high sec for the same profit. Its true that some level four mission do offer a great reward vs little risk. But there are people in this game now, and quite a large number of them, that like Eves PVE aspect. Now whether this was originally an intentiuon of those who created the game is really mute point right now. Those that like to PVE pay just as much for their account and those who do not therefore, being good businessmen CCP will continue to offer something for them. Has mining taken a beating in the PVE vs Mining vs PVP contest? Well yes it has. I think in large part this is due to the fact that Macro-Mining exists. Its impossible to Macro-PVP or PVE.
I think the designers are doint the right thing in trying to keep something for everyone in this game. It's what make Eve a great game with a diverse group of peopl to interact with.


Except for us pirates who are "scum" in real life, and strangely, so are the devs of this great game, who intended piracy from the begining. I must say here, that I agree with you somewhat. While I think the PVE in this game sucks, compared to say, EQ2 pve (lack of variety, same missions over and over, ect) people *do* like it. The trick (which ALL mmo companies are doing now btw) is trying to mix PVE with PVP, to make people experience pvp through the gateway of PVE, and get hooked. So the secret then is to make the PVE content so fun in low sec, or so with the risk in low sec, that people who might not otherwise risk pvp at all, will risk it to come get the PVE content in low sec.

Natas Dog
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.09.29 18:45:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Karlemgne
I already think that it is a huge hardship on pirates to have a 15 minute global, because, frankly, during that time they can't leave system (gate guns). Making a pirate stuck in a single system for an hour, would be an unfair burden. In fact, any pirate below -5 (like myself) is already "truly global" as I'm kill onsight by anyone, anywhere.

-Karlemgne

Honestly Karlemgne, I'd rather see a much longer GCC timer and give pirates the ability to use gates while under it. That way a savvy crew can set up a gate camp on the other side of the jump gate and gank the crap out of the pirate using their own tactics.

As it is now, a wise pirate makes a couple safespots and waits out the GCC in relative safety by jumping between his multiple safe spots in system until the GCC is up. Then, if the pirate's sec status is above -5.0, the anti-pirate is forced to tank the gate guns in order to exact vengeance. This basically requires a 'sacrifice' tackler in a small ship to pin the pirate down temporarily before he warps off if he's in a small-ish ship, or a BS with an insane amount of sensor boosters fitted to pin him while the rest of the crew acquires lock and vapes the offender.

If CCP really wants the players to police themselves in low sec, then at least make the gate/station guns intelligent enough to ignore the folks who are actually doing the policing. As it is now, if I don't catch a pirate before his GCC is up, I've got to round up a posse to take down any semi-competent 'part-time' pirate at the usual choke points, to account for the gate guns being on their side. The cards are all in the favor of pirates that play the sec status game and keep their sec above -5 while happily vaping anyone they think they can without suffering the repercussions.

Portios Smith
DNR
Posted - 2006.09.29 19:41:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Natas Dog
Originally by: Karlemgne
I already think that it is a huge hardship on pirates to have a 15 minute global, because, frankly, during that time they can't leave system (gate guns). Making a pirate stuck in a single system for an hour, would be an unfair burden. In fact, any pirate below -5 (like myself) is already "truly global" as I'm kill onsight by anyone, anywhere.

-Karlemgne

Honestly Karlemgne, I'd rather see a much longer GCC timer and give pirates the ability to use gates while under it. That way a savvy crew can set up a gate camp on the other side of the jump gate and gank the crap out of the pirate using their own tactics.

As it is now, a wise pirate makes a couple safespots and waits out the GCC in relative safety by jumping between his multiple safe spots in system until the GCC is up. Then, if the pirate's sec status is above -5.0, the anti-pirate is forced to tank the gate guns in order to exact vengeance. This basically requires a 'sacrifice' tackler in a small ship to pin the pirate down temporarily before he warps off if he's in a small-ish ship, or a BS with an insane amount of sensor boosters fitted to pin him while the rest of the crew acquires lock and vapes the offender.

If CCP really wants the players to police themselves in low sec, then at least make the gate/station guns intelligent enough to ignore the folks who are actually doing the policing. As it is now, if I don't catch a pirate before his GCC is up, I've got to round up a posse to take down any semi-competent 'part-time' pirate at the usual choke points, to account for the gate guns being on their side. The cards are all in the favor of pirates that play the sec status game and keep their sec above -5 while happily vaping anyone they think they can without suffering the repercussions.


Fair enough, Just as Karlemgne I am an outlaw so we dont really care about the KOS side of the flag. If there was a system that made non outlaws KOS for incrementally longer periods of time that would weed out the Pirates from the wanabes.

On the other hand I see no good reason for increasing your sentry fire aggro.

One poster pointed he plays to relax, I can understand that, I also have no problem with players having good entertaining content in the safety of high sec. The problem begins when people can get fat rich with out ever taking a dime of risk. Faction ships, faction mods, killer implants, hundreds of millions of ISK and all with no risk at all. what is the point of low sec and 0.0 when players can just milk high sec to that degree. Makes me want to raise my security status and just war dec these highsec queens... you know add some excitement to their millionare high sec life style Twisted Evil

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2006.09.29 20:16:00 - [102]
 


Honestly Karlemgne, I'd rather see a much longer GCC timer and give pirates the ability to use gates while under it. That way a savvy crew can set up a gate camp on the other side of the jump gate and gank the crap out of the pirate using their own tactics.

I agree completely, though this would essentially eliminate the barriers that exist to a pirate gate camp. Having said that, maybe gate guns should only shoot pirates when the offense actually occurs in front of the gate, allowing essentially what we're talking about here.

As it is now, a wise pirate makes a couple safespots and waits out the GCC in relative safety by jumping between his multiple safe spots in system until the GCC is up.

Pirates will still be able to do this, unless CCP removes bookmarks and safespots... something I don't see happening. Plus, unless you know the exact direction a pirate will leave system from... the same problem remains.

Then, if the pirate's sec status is above -5.0, the anti-pirate is forced to tank the gate guns in order to exact vengeance.

Lets face it, most pirates are outlawed. There are a number of notable exceptions, but heh.

This basically requires a 'sacrifice' tackler in a small ship to pin the pirate down temporarily before he warps off if he's in a small-ish ship, or a BS with an insane amount of sensor boosters fitted to pin him while the rest of the crew acquires lock and vapes the offender.

Hehe... you mean you don't want the barriers to gate camps that ALL pirates have? I don't see a problem with the way this works now, really, other than what we already talked about. These are things that pirates must deal with now, and non-pirates should deal with when engaging someone who isn't outlaw. There shouldn't be two sets of rules, one for pirates, and one for anti-pies.

Honestly though, pirates have a real burden. Not only must they do the above, ANY time they attack someone at a gate, but those pirates who are outlawed cannot get help from corp mates. I firmly believe that anti-pies shouldn't be allowed to use stations and gates to their advantage. Just like non-outlaws, I think that those who attack outlaws, should be flagged as hostile to the entire corp/alliance of their target, while still letting people engage outlaws without sentry involvment.

The cards are all in the favor of pirates that play the sec status game and keep their sec above -5 while happily vaping anyone they think they can without suffering the repercussions.

Not necessarily. I could be made to agree with you if they fixed some problems I have with outlaw status, namely a corp not being able to intervine when anti-pirate gate camps wtf p'own individual flashies with impunity, so much so, that they anti-pies don't have to worry about the pirates corp mates helping them out.

-Karlemgne

Jaxxar
Posted - 2006.09.29 23:49:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Jaxxar on 29/09/2006 23:50:31
I would just like to add a comment about the moving ice to low sec thing. no alliance is gonna send solo miners from 0.0 to strip some ice to fuell their pos' and cyno fields, etc, if it did happen there would be fleets heading from 0.0 to low sec to get the stuff then things would get exciting

Tommy Vercetti
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.09.30 05:34:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Cosmar

pirating is too risk free compared to what the others stand to lose/gain if they were to mine or kill NPCs.



OK. Ill run a lvl 4 q16 agent in gelfiven for 2 hrs, you pirate in amamake/rancer/egghelende. We'll see who loses the most ships and has the most isk in the end hey.

Good points by the OP. I have said this before in missions forum, low sec risks are that low atm, combined with good high sec agents makes low sec worth nothing if your not a pirate. Really, if I want to rat or mine, low sec is the time waster between where Im going and where I started going.

Solutions to the problem are difficult because they will affect everyone, therefore someone is bound to complaing and whinge, then adapt and get over it. All I will say is this. Low sec needs better rats and higher yield ores to make it profitable, and high sec lvl 4 missions are far to rewarding for thier risk (i.e. move to low sec and put on earplugs to drown out the cries).


Tommy Vercetti
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.09.30 05:42:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Celeste Storm

I still think the best way of getting people into low sec/0.0 is to let them expirience the look and feel first, without a risk of actually loosing something.
Cel.


Thats what low sec is supposed to be. You get in a frig or a cruiser, insure it, fit it out for 200k isk, cruise in low sec and fight. You lose it, what have you lost, 200k in fittings, big deal. Thats how people learn to pvp. But empire has made people who make lots of isk there through missions experience absolutely no pvp risk at all, then when a ship is lost in low sec its all over red rover. Empire has also been made that good / low sec that bad that much of low sec is empty space so noone is there to fight. Which either leaves sitting on a gate watching a dvd at the same time, or going to join a 0.0 alliance for some pvp. Either way, low sec remains dead.


Tommy Vercetti
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.09.30 05:45:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Celeste Storm
kewl, another thread is being transformed into a "Nerf mission runner in high sec" topic. Its a shame. Mad

Cel.


Lvl 4 q16 agents in high sec is a contributing factor behind this problem. Its so easy to make isk that way its not funny. Don't worry, I'm sure a box of tissues will be waiting when you diss pk's in the missions forum Im sure.

Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2006.09.30 11:22:00 - [107]
 

Make Rens, Jita and any other trade hub that often has 300 pilots plus in it lowsec. Laughing



Natas Dog
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.09.30 17:48:00 - [108]
 

Quote:
I agree completely, though this would essentially eliminate the barriers that exist to a pirate gate camp. Having said that, maybe gate guns should only shoot pirates when the offense actually occurs in front of the gate, allowing essentially what we're talking about here.

I guess I should have been more descriptive, that was exactly my thought. I don't want the gate/station guns on my side, nor do I want them on the pirate's.
Quote:
Pirates will still be able to do this, unless CCP removes bookmarks and safespots... something I don't see happening. Plus, unless you know the exact direction a pirate will leave system from... the same problem remains.

True enough, but at the moment, it's the only option a pirate has if he wants to avoid a force assembled to exact payback. Well, he can bounce from planet to planet and see if he happens upon someone scanning him down, but most don't in my experience
Quote:
Lets face it, most pirates are outlawed. There are a number of notable exceptions, but heh.

I wouldn't say most, as it's relatively easy for a pirate to stay above -5 as long as they aren't podding people for kicks/ransom. Just mix some ratting in between kills and you can ride the fine line between outlaw and in-law Laughing
Quote:
Hehe... you mean you don't want the barriers to gate camps that ALL pirates have? I don't see a problem with the way this works now, really, other than what we already talked about. These are things that pirates must deal with now, and non-pirates should deal with when engaging someone who isn't outlaw. There shouldn't be two sets of rules, one for pirates, and one for anti-pies.

Honestly though, pirates have a real burden. Not only must they do the above, ANY time they attack someone at a gate, but those pirates who are outlawed cannot get help from corp mates. I firmly believe that anti-pies shouldn't be allowed to use stations and gates to their advantage. Just like non-outlaws, I think that those who attack outlaws, should be flagged as hostile to the entire corp/alliance of their target, while still letting people engage outlaws without sentry involvment.

I don't want the guns to be on anyone's side in a situation like this. If killrights extended to a person's corporation or were transferrable, it wouldn't be such a big issue in my eyes. But having to tank the gate guns to bring justice to JoeBob the miner's killer(s) is rediculous IMO. A hauler/miner getting vaped for no good reason coming through a gate into low sec is nowhere near the same situation as a gang of anti-pirates trying to bring some sort of law and order to a system where there is none. I don't want the gate guns to be on my side, I just want them to be smart enough to allow the players to police themselves without having to muster overwhelming force to do so.
Quote:
Not necessarily. I could be made to agree with you if they fixed some problems I have with outlaw status, namely a corp not being able to intervine when anti-pirate gate camps wtf p'own individual flashies with impunity, so much so, that they anti-pies don't have to worry about the pirates corp mates helping them out.

I guess I could concede that to pirate corps. Though I can't say it's exactly a 'fair' situation when a pirate pops into system, pops a miner or two, then gets out scot-free in the first place. Why shouldn't the guns be on the side of the 'good guys' in a situation like that? But, I could live with the guns not assisting pirate corpmates as long as the guns aren't assisting either side of the conflict. Yeah, miners shouldn't be mining in low sec without someone watching their backs and a close eye on local. But lets face it, most combat equipped characters would rather run the belts while JoeBob the miner does his thing, leaving him open for a hit and run.

No matter how you look at it, the current system is flawed. It's good to see someone on the other side's view tho.

Thoris Levithar
Gallente
Gadget Factory
Posted - 2006.09.30 22:36:00 - [109]
 

I do not live in low sec, but I often go with my corp to our "low sec base" for mining/missioning/ratting. I would love to be more active in low sec (or even try 0.0). However, the main reason holding me back is my implants. I am at a point where I could get over the loss of a few million isk for a ship. The implants in my head are worth a dozen (medium sized) ships however. I simply wont risk PvP when there's a chance of losing that amount. What might help with this situation:

- make getting jumpclones easier
- allow implants to be unplugged without being destroyed

There even is an command to unplug implants, but using it destroys them. Why this is so I really fail to understand...

Sanka Cofie
Amarr
The Yaar Offices of Pointe Webb and Podemall
Posted - 2006.09.30 22:51:00 - [110]
 

^^^
Low-sec with low risk is like sex without satisfaction.
This has been a Deep Thought with Sanka Handy.

infraX
Caldari
Pastry Productions Inc.
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2006.10.01 13:10:00 - [111]
 

The difference between 0.0 and lowsec is just people attitudes. 0.0 is theoretically more dangerous than low sec as I pointed out in my previous post. Yet people are amazed how safe they feel in 0.0 compared to low sec. In 0.0, you get whole corps and alliances sticking together for safety and for the most part, they are safe to the casual naughty boys that travel through. In low sec, far too many people assume they will be safe and they take the fall for it. Too many just travel solo with no idea of the risks - just yesterday a navy issue megathron fell to our corp because he assumed he would be safe - didn't ask in local about security in the area (and we pirate this particular area a lot and had been there for hours) and didn't even get a corp mate to check it out for him with a low value/fast ship. This is just stupidity and it's this kind of behavior that makes people whine about lowsec and all the pirates and how they have "free reign" as some of you put it.

The problem is too many people want to play solo - but this isn't a solo game. If you want to make better money in the low security areas, you will struggle to do it alone. The tools and mechanics are in place for people to survive in 0.0 and lowsec, but it requires people to make use of the tools available to them and a bit of teamwork and intelligence. People get killed because they ignore one or all of these points.

I do agree with the OP that lowsec space isn't profitable enough for the risks involved, so I'll try not to deviate from that discussion as some others have hijacked this thread slightly. Weird thing is - people actually do come to lowsec for a marginal reward yet behave inappropriatly and end up getting splatted and then whine about it on the forums Rolling Eyes

Maximillian Pele
Caldari
Keel Hauler's Inc.
Posted - 2006.10.01 13:47:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: Maximillian Pele on 01/10/2006 13:49:16
Originally by: infraX
[Snip]In 0.0, you get whole corps and alliances sticking together for safety and for the most part, they are safe to the casual naughty boys that travel through.

[SnipThe problem is too many people want to play solo - but this isn't a solo game. If you want to make better money in the low security areas, you will struggle to do it alone. The tools and mechanics are in place for people to survive in 0.0 and lowsec, but it requires people to make use of the tools available to them and a bit of teamwork and intelligence. People get killed because they ignore one or all of these points.[Snip]


And that in a large part is the answer to why low sec is such a desert: if you are organised enough to survive and prosper in low sec you may as well go straight to 0.0.

More reward for relatively the same risk (and you can fire first and not screw your sec status).

So, if you and your corp are organised enough to survive the perils of low sec, why not cut out the middleman and go straight to where the real ISK is?

Elerie Dana
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.10.01 21:48:00 - [113]
 

Will add my thoughts to this entertaining debate. I have been a high sec mission runner/miner most of my Eve career. Having said that I have recently moved into .1 space for mission running and occasional anti-pirate engagements.

In order to make Low sec more attractive I feel several changes need to be made. First, move all Lvl 4 Missions that are combat oriented agents with anything over Q 0 to Low sec, leave the negative quality Lvl 4's in high sec. This improves low sec but doesn't totally nerf high sec players. Also leave the courier Lvl 4's in high sec as they are simply sitting ducks for low sec gank sqauads (though I am not opposed to them having to enter low sec to complete more of their missions, just don't like them starting there due to station camping which I feel would be a shooting gallery against these mission runners).

Second, make Killrights not only transferable at Concord stations, has has been discussed here, but if they remain with the origionating party, make them Corp wide, this way the miners can be avenged by the combat wing of a corp. Sorry to those still in NPC corps, your on your own.

Third, as has been discussed here, improve the amount of Jaspet, etc. in low sec and make the Kernite/Omber roids spawn bigger than they currently do. Also I feel Mining barges and Exhumers need a Resistance buff across the board to make barges survivable in low sec and Exhumers to be more survivable period due to the dangers and investment in these items.

Fourth, the rat spawns. In my opinion make the belt spawns better, with a chance for Named spawns of frigs in .4-.3 and Named cruiser spawns in .2-.1. Make these rare but having a chance would be good, leave Battleship spawns out in 0.0 and have the cruisers that spawn there still be worth more bounty. Along with this would be having appropriate mods drop from the appropriate named NPC's, ie. frig faction ammo from frigs, cruiser faction ammo from cruisers, etc. This will prevent the rewards of Low sec from equaling 0.0 imo.

Anyway these are the thoughts I had while reading this post. Was very nice to see such a long post with no flaming.


Qel Hoth
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2006.10.01 22:45:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Make Rens, Jita and any other trade hub that often has 300 pilots plus in it lowsec. Laughing





Bad idea. Have you been to Jita recently? The lag is bad enough without people trying to kill each other. Besides, if Jita became low sec, the carebears would just move the trade hub to a nearby system.

Darkenral
Posted - 2006.10.02 00:29:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Darkenral on 02/10/2006 00:32:07
Alot of good ideas here I Will jsut add a thought or two of my own.

1 CCP will NEVER be able to force ppl to take out their faction fitted faction boats to low sec, alot of mission runners really like min-maxing their ships so this is a problem. Nobody is going to risk a cpl billion ISK unless the rewards are very significantly higher than empire at least as rewarding as o.o IMO before you see people move.

2. The reason it is a problem is that the BEST PVE fit will get omgwtfbbq'd by a pvp fit - just as your typical PVP fit will get omgwtfbbq'd if it got agrod by 2-3 pockets in a typical L4 mission.

3. Therfore looking to force combat between PVE + PVP fitted ships is foolish IMO. The setups are too different and the outcome will almost 100% of the time be the PVP ship popping the PVE boat. OR the PVP boat will get away as the PVE boat will not have the means to lock it down. So in essence its not really a fight at all.

Just some thoughts on it in case nobody had actually thought through the reason you see so few mission runners in low sec.

Dark

Devian 666
Transmetropolitan
Posted - 2006.10.02 01:46:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Celeste Storm
Edited by: Celeste Storm on 22/09/2006 09:48:06
Edited by: Celeste Storm on 22/09/2006 09:47:17

Originally by: Devian 666
Why not let all the carebears ...


could u pls for gods sake skip the fcking carebear thing? Rolling Eyes or would u like it if I call u a looser, ****** whatever? If any of u so called pirates what to have a SERIOUS discussion about low sec/high sec changes which envolves both parties in a fair way u should show more respect and politeness. Damn! Wink


You seem to have taken offense. I regard carebears as the smacktalking variety of miner or "pirate". They make threats, send hatemails, pay 100k CSCP charges for convos and call me far worse names than what you have listed. It is not the real adult pirates that need to be reminded of manners.

In the posts above there are a lot of very good suggestions that I hope CCP considers seriously. I see the two fundamental issues as:

Low sec is not rewarding. 0.0 is better and you don't take a sec status hit.

For low sec piracy to be rewarding the sec hit should be far less, especially for podding. This gives pirates a chance to work in low sec and access high sec markets. Now before you load your flamethrowers read the next item.

In a previous post there was talk of transferable killrights. Why not throw away this silly bounty system and have assignable bounties. You have a killright, you then sell the killright for certain parties be it; anyone, a corp, an alliance, or any combination of the previous items. This bounty killright means that the assigned "bounty hunters" can attack this pirate any time/any where to potentially collect this bounty.

Make bounty hunting associated with killrights from low sec or empire ganking and you make bounty hunting a profession. In turn you also make low sec piracy a proper profession while keeping the pirates on their toes in low sec and empire by knowing that there may be people hunting them who can kill without concorde causing any problems.

Imagine a pirate sitting at the gate in 0.4 space and a bounty hunter jumps in and attacks the said pirate. The gate guns do not activate due to the bounty being in place but the pirate has the option to defend themself.

The bounty would terminate on podkill or 1 month expiry of the killright.

This would make things a lot more interesting throughout empire and mercenaries and bounty hunters would have a lot more targets without needed to war dec whole corps or alliances.

If there are better rats and ore combined with a proper bounty system then low sec becomes more interesting for everyone. That and starting bounty hunters could begin in high sec.

Hopefully this would also reduce smacktalk marginally and would reduce the number of pirates putting bounties on their heads as you would only see the bounty if you are able to collect it YARRRR!!

Gabrielle Atrocity
Posted - 2006.10.02 05:22:00 - [117]
 

You could make it so that you can only place a bounty on a dude thats kill you in the last 15 minutes... this would keep someone from plopping a bounty on your head then hosing you just to do more damage.

I just dont like how a pirate can get a bounty on his head, then have an alt pod him when hes made enough money.

Bounty isnt bounty in eve, its charity. Thats not how its supposed to work.

Trojanman190
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2006.10.02 05:23:00 - [118]
 

Sorry about that... the above is my alt. Stupid defualt character stuff....

Brucette
Posted - 2006.10.02 10:26:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Varitus

Second, I think its completly counter productive to have the entire industrial line of ships be practicaly naked and defenseless. There is no reason why a decent engeneer couldnt make a hull design for an industrial that sport 3 or better wepons. Keep them slow, but give them the ability to return fire.



I suspect the intent is to avoid creating an UBERWTFPWNAFKMININGBEAST

albert camus
Corp 1 Allstars
Posted - 2006.10.02 11:04:00 - [120]
 

I havent had time to read all the posts so im sorry if my points have already been raised.

We have a few types of players in eve but i am going to focus on the ones that live in highsec, we have people who do missions for fun and people who do them for isk. doing them for fun is fair and should be left as it is, so why not just drop the rewards for the missions, for example removeing bountys from npc's. This way people who do them to relax still can. Only problem with this is it stops people doing them for isk, so make a second set of agents in lowsec offering the same missions with bountys.

Next point might seem extreem but take all ores apart from veld out of hi-sec ( the npcs have already mined it all). Once all of this has been done REMOVE local in lowsec and add a chat box with local count in. Leave local as it is in empire and give people the option of witch local to chose if thay have sovrenty of 0.0

I also love the bounty hunter missions idea, but would like this if thay made this the only way to claim bounty, then haveing a bounty is a real ***** if you have an army of anti-pies chaseing you, the pirate should also get a reward if thay kill the anti pie ( a special loot drop that can be sold to npcs or something)


Pages: first : previous : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (11)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only