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Kakk0 Warui
Dragonstar
Posted - 2006.10.11 11:26:00 - [271]
 

Hi. Iíve not played eve for very long, so apologies if these comments are borne from scuttlebutt rather than experience as applied to eve.

Itís all very well asking for the higher reward content to be moved to lower security space, but it wonít work.

In every other MMO Iíve played, if there is choice between a high(er) risk venture with large reward and a low(er) risk venture with smaller reward, people will pretty much always go for doing more of the lower risk venture and ignore the higher risk stuff completely.

Why would people with expensive ships/gear, set up for PvE want to go into low sec where they are likely to confront people with much better PvP set ups? Itís not like they can go for missions with a PvP load out. So they will just be lambs to the slaughter if they come across someone with a mind to take their candy.

Higher level missions in low sec = more PvE set players flying around = easy targets for piracy = not gonna happen.

More expensive ore in low sec = more big slow transports flying around = easy targets for piracy = not gonna happen.

I agree more incentive needs to be given for people to go to low sec. Hell, I want to go there myself one day. But I really donít think the ore/mission switch idea will improve the situation.

Nomex
Posted - 2006.10.11 11:31:00 - [272]
 

First of all I'll appologise for not having the time to read the whole of this topic, so sorry if this suggestion has been made before. Also that I have only just returned to the game after a break and so I am not up-to-date on the current state of EvE...anyhow, I think this is an important issue for the game, and as a game designer myself, I like to offer what i can to improve things...

Problem:
Little reward for venturing into low security.

Possible Solution:
Introduction of secure space 'Mining Permits'.
-If players had to purchase 'Mining Permits' from an official body, to mine in their space; while mining in low-sec space was free, an imediate and flexible insentive could be introduced without the need for major new content from CCP. Activating mining lasers in secure space, without a 'mining permit' would recieve a hefty fine!

Mining Permits:
Purchased from Regions Governing body or similar.
Cost based on quantity of Ore -allows for new players to purchase cheaper permits.
Mining in low-sec doesn't require a permit.

My 2cents...

Avar Davola
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.10.11 11:47:00 - [273]
 

I'm really hoping for some nice stuff in kali to make trips to low sec more interesting. Here's my main ideas...

1. A Police role for players. Possibly through joining an NPC corp like Concord, otherwise through enforcable contracts. I think a lot of players who become pirates do so for the ability to PVP anywhere. If pirates are plentiful then becoming a pirate hunter would also allow you to PVP anywhere too.

2. Random Concord patrols. In high sec, if you commit a crime, Concord show up. Have there be a chance that a wandering patrol can show up in low sec too, depending on the system.

3. Citizen's arrest. If you're in a lowsec system and you have a certain security level, 1.5 for example, then you get an alert when a crime is commited in the system. You get a window offering to warp you to the 'crimescene' and you can attack the aggressor without losing security.

Tommy Vercetti
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.10.11 11:48:00 - [274]
 

Originally by: Battlecheese
I think all this thread shows is that nothing needs changing.

We have:
a) craploads of pirates who, despite complaining of overcrowding and sparse prey, seem to make plenty of isk (even if most of them seem to use hisec lvl4 agents...)
b) relatively small numbers of missionrunners/miners who are able to at least turn a profit after factoring in massive ship/module losses.

Monitoring complaints on the forums is not really the way I would like CCP to balance the game further.
While this thread has, for the most part, been quite rational - it is not clear that CCP is unhappy with the current status quo.

If they don't like that all their precious pirates have bought themselves blueprints and barges and are living in Jita, then they'll change it. Until then, if you don't like the game as it is currently, maybe you should play it some other way until the balance changes back more to your liking?



Er cheesypoofs mate, lets take a step back

a)craploads of pirates who, despite complaining of overcrowding and sparse prey, seem to make plenty of isk (even if most of them seem to use hisec lvl4 agents...) - You might want to think about this one. It has something to do with highsec lvl 4 agents giving out enough isk for pirates to go there and do that. What does that tell you

b) relatively small numbers of missionrunners/miners who are able to at least turn a profit after factoring in massive ship/module losses. - Massive ship/mod losses. You must not be very good at mission running. Tell you what, try pirating in amamake for 2 hrs and see how many times you get podded. Thats the mission runners argument, missions are easier because they require less time to complete and organise, no risk from pvp and good isk to boot. Massive ship losses? I dont think so.

If pirating makes so much isk, why are there 50000000 mission runners in jita, and low sec systems with 1 jump in 24 hrs? If pirating is so easy, why isn't everyone else doing it? But no, I think your scared you might have to start using your grey matter when you run lvl 4 agents in low sec thats actually inhabited, so throwing around crap on the pirating forum will help you feel better.

Tommy Vercetti
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.10.11 12:02:00 - [275]
 

Edited by: Tommy Vercetti on 11/10/2006 12:04:41
Originally by: Avar Davola
I'm really hoping for some nice stuff in kali to make trips to low sec more interesting. Here's my main ideas...

1. A Police role for players. Possibly through joining an NPC corp like Concord, otherwise through enforcable contracts. I think a lot of players who become pirates do so for the ability to PVP anywhere. If pirates are plentiful then becoming a pirate hunter would also allow you to PVP anywhere too.

2. Random Concord patrols. In high sec, if you commit a crime, Concord show up. Have there be a chance that a wandering patrol can show up in low sec too, depending on the system.

3. Citizen's arrest. If you're in a lowsec system and you have a certain security level, 1.5 for example, then you get an alert when a crime is commited in the system. You get a window offering to warp you to the 'crimescene' and you can attack the aggressor without losing security.


[/rant on]

Read: nerf pirating further so low sec is safer for me. Cmon people I only have 1 hr a year to play eve, so I should be able play just as good as those wcs fitting ebil pirates. Here's my ideas:

1. Low sec, turn it to high sec. I mean, running gatecamps is sooo hard, why should I have to use my brain? In fact no, just make the whole damn eve world 1.0, with no rats, poses, anything that even looks at me funny gets removed from fear that it might hurt my feelings

2. Why are people shooting at me in low sec? Bring Concord in to shoot anyone I tell it to, killing it instantly.

3. Missions need a buff folks. I want CNR's spewing out a lvl 1 agents *******, complete with faction/officer gear. And 1 billion isk rewards, complete with a t2 bpo for bonuses

4. Not only that, I want a bounty system that allows me to kill who I want, when I want, with 5 billion isk for a reward. Pirates limited to shuttles for fighting, concord gives me a blasterthron with a 100km web, 10 pt scram, and 8 blasters with enough dps to rival a doomsday weapon with a 1 sec rof. just to make sure i kill them.

Sounds fair dont it? Rolling Eyes

[/rant off]

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.11 12:24:00 - [276]
 

Edited by: Samirol on 11/10/2006 12:51:37
Originally by: Tommy Vercetti
Edited by: Tommy Vercetti on 11/10/2006 12:04:41
Originally by: Avar Davola
I'm really hoping for some nice stuff in kali to make trips to low sec more interesting. Here's my main ideas...

1. A Police role for players. Possibly through joining an NPC corp like Concord, otherwise through enforcable contracts. I think a lot of players who become pirates do so for the ability to PVP anywhere. If pirates are plentiful then becoming a pirate hunter would also allow you to PVP anywhere too.

2. Random Concord patrols. In high sec, if you commit a crime, Concord show up. Have there be a chance that a wandering patrol can show up in low sec too, depending on the system.

3. Citizen's arrest. If you're in a lowsec system and you have a certain security level, 1.5 for example, then you get an alert when a crime is commited in the system. You get a window offering to warp you to the 'crimescene' and you can attack the aggressor without losing security.


[/rant on]

Read: nerf pirating further so low sec is safer for me. Cmon people I only have 1 hr a year to play eve, so I should be able play just as good as those wcs fitting ebil pirates. Here's my ideas:

1. Low sec, turn it to high sec. I mean, running gatecamps is sooo hard, why should I have to use my brain? In fact no, just make the whole damn eve world 1.0, with no rats, poses, anything that even looks at me funny gets removed from fear that it might hurt my feelings

2. Why are people shooting at me in low sec? Bring Concord in to shoot anyone I tell it to, killing it instantly.

3. Missions need a buff folks. I want CNR's spewing out a lvl 1 agents *******, complete with faction/officer gear. And 1 billion isk rewards, complete with a t2 bpo for bonuses

4. Not only that, I want a bounty system that allows me to kill who I want, when I want, with 5 billion isk for a reward. Pirates limited to shuttles for fighting, concord gives me a blasterthron with a 100km web, 10 pt scram, and 8 blasters with enough dps to rival a doomsday weapon with a 1 sec rof. just to make sure i kill them.

Sounds fair dont it? Rolling Eyes

[/rant off]
/signed as long as you include flower picking and pink space ponies

Edit: if Citizen's arrest were to be added, i hope you like bigger gankfleets and no ransoms

General Coochie
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2006.10.11 12:46:00 - [277]
 

Edited by: General Coochie on 11/10/2006 12:51:56
Quote:

...In every other MMO Iíve played, if there is choice between a high(er) risk venture with large reward and a low(er) risk venture with smaller reward, people will pretty much always go for doing more of the lower risk venture and ignore the higher risk stuff completely...



If the rewards are high enough in low-sec it WILL be populated. Why do you think 0.0 is so populated? The answer is: High rewards.

Then how come ppl argue that greater rewards wouldnt bring ppl to low-sec when it does to 0.0? I think its because some ppl in EvE Like to do things on their own, solo, this is the problem!. I think this statement is backed upp by the fact that ppl almost always compare ship vs ship, and not a ships role in a group. Ppl are doing complexes and ratting solo expect to make as much ISK as people who make a corp, have different roles, work together and thereby accomplish a goal togheter wich bring them a high reward and lesser risk. EvE is a game where you should rely on others! I think its even stated in the tutorial, without friends you wont get far in EvE. And I dont think they mean "chat" friends (if someone got that wrong), but ppl that can actually help each other out by playing different roles, ie fighters and miners.
This is exactly whats happeing in 0.0, heres teamplay for the most part. Some guys guard, while the others mine etc. Thereby making enough ISK to make it more rewarding for both the protectors and for the miners.
The rewards in low-sec needs to be so great that teamplaying like this would be more rewarding then doing solo missions in empire. Note: Im not against complexes in empire but if complexes in high-sec would give the same amounth of ISK you should have to be 5-10 ppl to be able to make such a complex. Noone should be able to make as much ISK solo in empire as a corp that works together does in low-sec, this is just wrong. Most ppl ending upp popped in low-sec are infact ppl that needed to team upp more. If they did they wouldnt be ganked or atleast they would gank back and make the agressor think twice before engaing the next time.

If rewards in low-sec would be high enough for ppl to work together to get a low-risk high-reward ratio it will get populated just as 0.0 is.
Maybe you wouldnt need a whole alliance to back you upp but just a small corp. Some fighers some miners. Enough fighters to take out 1-3 pirates. If these fighters actually make more money guarding their mining friends in low-sec then doing missions in high sec surely they would be in low-sec if they enjoy PvP. And if 20 ppl jump into local you go hide untill they leave. Now you argue that "this makes it unprofitable" well trust me the same thing happens in 0.0 when there are to many hostiles appearing in your region / local - you SS or dock (if there isnt a counter force around). Still you make enough isk / week for it to be worth it, and its still worth it for me despite me paying alot of money each week to stay out there


Whats currently the problem is that most ppl that teamplay are in 0.0, in empire are smaller corps and soloers doing complexes etc. You practically never see ppl teamplay in low-sec except for PvPers, pirates gate camping mostly, wich makes them so effective. Its not the lameness of sniping or gatecamping in itself that make a problem, the sulotion to gate camps isnt boosting sentry guns / nerfing gatecamps. The problem is infact that ppl seem to think this is some sort of quake game where you can or should be able handle everything solo. EvE doesnt work like this. What ppl need to understand is that a lone hauler/miner/npcer shouldnt survive vs 5 hostiles in low-sec.

Solutoin to gate camps: work together to counter the gate camps.

EVE IS A CORP/TEAMPLAY GAME and it should be played as one

sorry for grammars, and ev. spelling errors. English is not my main language.

Battlecheese
Posted - 2006.10.11 14:13:00 - [278]
 

Originally by: Tommy Vercetti

Er cheesypoofs mate, lets take a step back

a)craploads of pirates who, despite complaining of overcrowding and sparse prey, seem to make plenty of isk (even if most of them seem to use hisec lvl4 agents...) - You might want to think about this one. It has something to do with highsec lvl 4 agents giving out enough isk for pirates to go there and do that. What does that tell you



Well, avoiding the really obvious opportunity to turn this into an priate slanging match, it suggests that people who want to make large amounts of safe boring money do it in hisec.
This has also been one of the main themes of this whole thread.

Call me stubborn, but I really like to be entirely based in lowsec. Other people are entitled to play how they wish.

Originally by: Tommy Vercetti

b) relatively small numbers of missionrunners/miners who are able to at least turn a profit after factoring in massive ship/module losses. - Massive ship/mod losses. You must not be very good at mission running. Tell you what, try pirating in amamake for 2 hrs and see how many times you get podded. Thats the mission runners argument, missions are easier because they require less time to complete and organise, no risk from pvp and good isk to boot. Massive ship losses? I dont think so.



Possibly I was not clear - I never intended to suggest that the ships and modules were lost due to NPC interactions. Mission-scanners and gatecampers (and, of course, plain old dumb being caught at a belt) take a steady toll on ships and equipment.

Not all missions return as much isk as lvl4s. I can assure you that the T1-fitted ferox I lost a few months ago was a crippling financial blow, and left me with less than 1mil isk.
Buhu etc.

Originally by: Tommy Vercetti

If pirating makes so much isk, why are there 50000000 mission runners in jita, and low sec systems with 1 jump in 24 hrs? If pirating is so easy, why isn't everyone else doing it? But no, I think your scared you might have to start using your grey matter when you run lvl 4 agents in low sec thats actually inhabited, so throwing around crap on the pirating forum will help you feel better.


I'm sorry dude, I don't really see where this bit came from, but I'll try to answer it anyway.

I don't think I ever suggested pirates are able to turn a profit through piracy. In this very thread you will find direct references to pirates actually generating their cashflow from hisec lvl4 agents.
There are presumably some more serious pirates who perpetually live in lowsec (alts aside). I assume the rewards of their lifestyle are adequate, as they are still here.

All this is getting a bit away from my point, however, which is that most of the longterm lowsec population has learned to cope with the pirates.
ISK alone will not lure significant numbers of people from hisec, they will jump straight to 0.0.

As I suspect CCP would be very cautious about inflicting huge changes apon their userbase (in the hopes of causing a mass migration) I am not expecting anything to change soon.

Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
Segregati0n
Posted - 2006.10.11 14:35:00 - [279]
 

Edited by: Traidor Disloyal on 11/10/2006 14:35:43
Originally by: General Coochie


EVE IS A CORP/TEAMPLAY GAME and it should be played as one


Unless you have read the mission statement for this game that CCP has put out or are part of CCP itself and know exactly what CCP wants for this game then you really can not say this is a corp/teamplay game only.

Unless everyone at CCP is brain dead their number one goal is to grow the company. To grow the company they need more revenue. To get more revenue they need more players. To get more players they need to add more game play options to the game. Not everyone is into team play all the time. People do like to go off on their own. So solo play is here to stay.

You guys (and gals) need to remember something: This may be a game to you but it is food on the table and a roof over the head for the owners and employees of CCP.

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.11 14:41:00 - [280]
 

Edited by: Samirol on 11/10/2006 14:42:03
Linkage

It says "eve is not a single player game" implying that you play with other players

And ccp isn't in it solely for subscriptions. if it was, it would be wow in space (they would get many more users that way)

General Coochie
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2006.10.11 14:55:00 - [281]
 

Edited by: General Coochie on 11/10/2006 14:59:28
Sure they need to have solo content aswell. And Im not against complexes that can be run solo. Infact I think its great that there is solo content, what else would you do if noone was online?
What I mean is that, it seems wrong to me that someone can make about the same ISK alone in empire as a corp working together can in low-sec.

If more isk was to be made in low-sec more ppl would have been there. But it requires teamwork as the game is designed today. Therefor ppl are rather in empire where they can solo and still make lots of isk. In empire you are (mostly) safe and dont need a corp. I think low-sec should be a place for both soloers and medium sized-corps, obviously there are alot of soloing ppl there atm they are just not the mining or ratting type :) Where 0.0 is a place for a strong corp or an alliance.

Wether CCP intended this to be a teamgame or not I cannot actually tell, but its obvious to me that a good team has a great advantage in EvE over solo players. That guy who have a titan, imagine the effort that everyone in that alliance put down on it. There is no way a soloer could ever get a titan and because of that I think its a teamgame, to reach some goals and better wealth you are better of in a team. Im not saying that the titan is "the goal" of this game, naturally its having fun. However if ppl complain about someone teamed upp against them, and that they cant handle it. Ok fine let them stick around in empire, grind missions solo and chat with their in game buddies (for me they could just aswell be playing a solo game and chatting on msn at the same time, would save them the monthly payment). But let the ppl who want to team upp actually make more isk doing so in low-sec then in high-sec, or rather have the reward in low-sec be so high as its worth teaming upp and loosing ships for.

Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
Segregati0n
Posted - 2006.10.11 14:57:00 - [282]
 

Edited by: Traidor Disloyal on 11/10/2006 15:00:06
Originally by: Samirol
Edited by: Samirol on 11/10/2006 14:42:03
Linkage

It says "eve is not a single player game" implying that you play with other players

And ccp isn't in it solely for subscriptions. if it was, it would be wow in space (they would get many more users that way)


No, what it says is this:

1.11 How does the massively multiplayer aspect of the EVE affect game play?
However, the level at which each player decides to participate is a matter of personal choice. The game leaves ample room for continual progress and variety in all its solo playing aspects. For those who opt to do so, becoming the best lone-wolf pirate or bounty hunter is a never-ending task as the competitors are other human players who will employ every method at their disposal to gain an edge over the rest. Solo players are also able to hire out their services as mercenaries or hit men to other players or player-run corporations.
The bottom line is that we at CCP have strived to create a rich and immersive universe centered on human interaction. Players can play the game as a simple space trading game or endeavor to control the largest, most powerful company in the universe. We provide the rules and tools, but it is the players themselves who create the adventures.

Kagashi
Posted - 2006.10.11 15:00:00 - [283]
 

I think the bigest problem with low sec is that there is no real "Anti-Pirate" option.

Sure you can go around playing the super-hero killing pirates but you take Sec hits just as a Pirate would killing Miners.
After a few weeks of this your sec rateing is shot and everyone assumes your a pirate.

Make pirate Hunting in Low sec a Viable way to make isk without hurting your sec status and you would more than likely see Low sec become a lot more interesting for everyone who plays there.

Im not going to suggest any systems here as they would most likely just be shot down. But there needs to be a way to alow Players to police Lowsec without dammageing their Sec status.

If you kill a Pirate with a -10 sec then realy you are doing concord a favor... it makes sence to me.

General Coochie
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2006.10.11 15:02:00 - [284]
 

Im not against the solo content and I very much doubt that samirol is agianst it.

Im just against that one player in empire can make the same isk vs risk a corp can devided among its members in lowsec.

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.11 22:46:00 - [285]
 

Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
Edited by: Traidor Disloyal on 11/10/2006 15:00:06
Originally by: Samirol
Edited by: Samirol on 11/10/2006 14:42:03
Linkage

It says "eve is not a single player game" implying that you play with other players

And ccp isn't in it solely for subscriptions. if it was, it would be wow in space (they would get many more users that way)


No, what it says is this:

1.11 How does the massively multiplayer aspect of the EVE affect game play?
However, the level at which each player decides to participate is a matter of personal choice. The game leaves ample room for continual progress and variety in all its solo playing aspects. For those who opt to do so, becoming the best lone-wolf pirate or bounty hunter is a never-ending task as the competitors are other human players who will employ every method at their disposal to gain an edge over the rest. Solo players are also able to hire out their services as mercenaries or hit men to other players or player-run corporations.
The bottom line is that we at CCP have strived to create a rich and immersive universe centered on human interaction. Players can play the game as a simple space trading game or endeavor to control the largest, most powerful company in the universe. We provide the rules and tools, but it is the players themselves who create the adventures.
ah, good point, i was looking at 1.2

In any case, i am sure that a mmo would thrive if everyone was competing against each other and working together than everyone soloing it. I think that CCP's interests are in a great game that they like to play (they are all griefers anyway Very Happy) and make some decent money out of it. They don't want it to be another ultima where the non-pvp whiners turned it into a "carebear" fest (i use the term loosely). They want to keep it an "on your toes", exciting, pvp game.

Darkenral
Posted - 2006.10.11 22:49:00 - [286]
 

Edited by: Darkenral on 11/10/2006 22:57:58
In order to make mission running attractive in low sec you would need to @ a minimum triple the bounties on rats and adjust the loot tables. Otherwise there is ZERO incentive for a mission runner do go to low sec atm. Look @ the negatives.

- Lower mission boat performance due to plugging resist hole @ all times (-1 slot)
- Lower mission boat performance from fitting a large NOS (-1 slot)
- Lower mission boat performance from fitting tackling gear (-1/2 slots)
- Lower mission boat performance from NOT using all faction gear (-15% performance)

We have now reached the point where some of the tougher missions will require multiple warps imo, and you still are @ a disadvantage against a comprable class ship thats full PVP kit.

- 50% less bounty isk due to bringing a fully PVP kitted partner
- Occasional ship loss due to PVP engagements - possible implant loss

So can anyone tell me what the incentive is again ?

If the goal is to drive away all players that PVE some - most of the time then by all means continuing to nerf missions will do that. If the goal is to populate low sec it would reallly take some rather drastic improvements imo. Then it becomes profitable for a small to mid size corp to base in low sec, map a couple of systems, make all the tactical bm's needed (station insta warp, gate sniper spots, gate scan spot) etc etc, hell even put up a pos. It actually might be fun as hell but I doubt that ccp will make it profitable enough to make people make that move. Mainly becuase it would make low sec on par isk generating wise with o.o and thats not the focus of the game it seems.

Dark

PS As i reread this I think dam it really would be fun as hell, would be a good place for small to - midsize corps that dont want to make the jump to o.o but still PVE + PVP. Would add a whole new dimension to the game. Just think of all the conflict in low sec heh and it would be small scale skirmish conflict for the most part which many people myself included prefer to fleettastic blobs.




Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.11 22:52:00 - [287]
 

Dark, except it is profitable enough, it just takes more attention to local than high sec. It is more of laziness for a lack of a better term than rewards. Having a trial account alt sitting at the beginning of your mission would work perfectly. You can see if anyone comes through to get you. Scanning missions down IS pretty tough, as they are usually off plane.

Complacency's Bane
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.11 22:59:00 - [288]
 

Originally by: Darkenral
In order to make mission running attractive in low sec you would need to @ a minimum triple the bounties on rats and adjust the loot tables.
Fortunately, lvl 4 missions are triple the rewards of lvl 3. That means if lvl 3 are in highsec and lvl 4 are in lowsec, its perfect.

Thanks for agreeing.

Darkenral
Posted - 2006.10.11 23:07:00 - [289]
 

Originally by: Complacency's Bane
Originally by: Darkenral
In order to make mission running attractive in low sec you would need to @ a minimum triple the bounties on rats and adjust the loot tables.
Fortunately, lvl 4 missions are triple the rewards of lvl 3. That means if lvl 3 are in highsec and lvl 4 are in lowsec, its perfect.

Thanks for agreeing.


Clever Very Happy Trolling but clever Razz

I edited my post while you guys responded I dont really think we disagree that much Laughing

Dark

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.11 23:17:00 - [290]
 

Edited by: Samirol on 11/10/2006 23:16:45
complacency is most obviously a bigger troll than me...

what was i thinking! responding with a logical argument Mad

jk complacency, clever Very Happy

Veetor
Gallente
Acme Manufacturing
Posted - 2006.10.12 04:08:00 - [291]
 

Acme does a little low-sec mining. Taking the time to set it up...the time to haul the proceeds, and the losses, we make far more in .6

Mining takes time. Hours of time to pay for a trip. Thanks to show pilots in space mining in 0.0 or low-sec is not even an option. Sure you can fly around and rat and hence be hard to find. Sit in one place and go to work? Nope. We need tools and we'll come.

Celeste Storm
Posted - 2006.10.12 07:15:00 - [292]
 

Edited by: Celeste Storm on 12/10/2006 07:20:40
nvm.

Luke Pubcrawler
Posted - 2006.10.12 08:45:00 - [293]
 

I think many people on this thread are under the impression that the problem is how highsec and lowsec are balanced - it isnt. The issue is more how lowsec and 0.0 are balanced.

A sizeable number of players, maybe even a majority will never come to lowsec from highsec no matter how attractive you make it or how hard you nerf highsec rewards. This is simply because the lowsec game is not the game they want to play, end of story. Nerf highsec enough and they might get bored and quit but they won't play your game and you can't make them.

There are players, like myself, who having spent time in highsec do want to venture out into more dangerous territory. Two things tend to happen:

1) They get killed a time or two by the wandering gank squads and return to empire.Eventually they get bored and quit Eve

2) They find lowsec a pain but perseverve then discover that 0.0 is easier and more rewarding than lowsec but more of a challenge than higsec. Result is they ignore lowsec.

I am in the second category. I have a highsec base of operations, a safe jump clone with decent implants. I run high sec missions for cash and spend time here to get a reasonable training rate.

I also have a 0.0 base with a jump clone, when I want extra excitement, a little PvP, I jump out there. My corp has no 0.0 presence but is on decent terms with the local 0.0 alliance so I face few problems I cannot handle living a solo life while in 0.0.

My visits to lowsec are limited to once every couple of weeks when the border system is uncamped. I spend 2 minutes jumping from 0.0 to station to reprocess and sell stuff I cannot get rid of in 0.0. Then either back to 0.0 or highsec.

What can I get in lowsec that I cannot in either 0.0 or highsec ? Except possibly more hassle for less reward.

Dionisius
Gallente
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2006.10.12 14:36:00 - [294]
 

What if you payed for people poping -5.0+ players?
And i meen big rewards along with the ability of engagement
anywere by corps with:

1. Positive Stance, let's say 5.0+
2. Concord Tags (give some valuue to those insignias on sale)
3. Some sort of rule that concede's these corps the AP status?

Btw, you could use the insignia thing to make missions for all to aquire them
and do those missions in low sec with high rewards in order to, train people
how to live in low sec, or give them a view on how things process over there, and
populate the systems.

What do you think?

Samirol
Love is Hate
Posted - 2006.10.12 14:43:00 - [295]
 

Originally by: Dionisius
What if you payed for people poping -5.0+ players?
And i meen big rewards along with the ability of engagement
anywere by corps with:

1. Positive Stance, let's say 5.0+
2. Concord Tags (give some valuue to those insignias on sale)
3. Some sort of rule that concede's these corps the AP status?

Btw, you could use the insignia thing to make missions for all to aquire them
and do those missions in low sec with high rewards in order to, train people
how to live in low sec, or give them a view on how things process over there, and
populate the systems.

What do you think?


1. Highly exploitable
2. Again, exploitable
3. What is the difference between APs and pirates at this point? APs are just pirates that shoot at selective targets (in effect)

Dionisius
Gallente
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2006.10.12 14:55:00 - [296]
 

Originally by: Samirol
Originally by: Dionisius
What if you payed for people poping -5.0+ players?
And i meen big rewards along with the ability of engagement
anywere by corps with:

1. Positive Stance, let's say 5.0+
2. Concord Tags (give some valuue to those insignias on sale)
3. Some sort of rule that concede's these corps the AP status?

Btw, you could use the insignia thing to make missions for all to aquire them
and do those missions in low sec with high rewards in order to, train people
how to live in low sec, or give them a view on how things process over there, and
populate the systems.

What do you think?


1. Highly exploitable
2. Again, exploitable
3. What is the difference between APs and pirates at this point? APs are just pirates that shoot at selective targets (in effect)


Well i was thinking about a Corp gaining the Police like status for runing actual anty piracy missions and plus not having a former piracy record, and the insignias only being available to use via reward given by agent.

If someone gets it trough other meens it would only serve as smugling object for mission or escrow.

Its a tought only mate.

Beside i don't care much about what anti-pirates think or are considered, i as a pirate&merc shoot everything i can, and i'm not too picky about targets, but i give you credit on your words, most anti-pirates have a most hypocritical way of picking targets and stating that they are the good guys... kinda acting like the Mob but with a blue suit.Laughing

keen666
Posted - 2006.10.12 18:37:00 - [297]
 

i've just had a new idea (to me anyway). stop me if it's allready been brought up. and don't take it wrong, i'm really not trying to nerf pirates or give antipirates any real benifits. and this is a very rough outline, i'm not being to specific with the idea.

i do believe that low-sec is not really low sec. it's more like less sec than 0 sec because it can't be controlled and anyone can easily shoot at anybody else. maybe if corps could find some sort of control on a particular system, by doing something (similar to control towers, and by that i mean something that would cost lots and take skills and everything else), to allow it's members to have a longer aggression towards crimnals (flagging longer than 15 minutes) in system.

now, this would and have to go both ways somehow, ie...pirate and bounty hunter corps could both do it in thier "controled" systems.

this way, if you do have someone that is a criminal, you can have more of an ability to do something about it. now i say criminal, but if a pirate corp could do it as well, they could get targets from it the same way. criminal is in referance to the controlled system. so if a bounty hunter came and messed with your pirate corp. he would have the same penalties toward the pirate corp because in "thier" system, he is the criminal. now this would be by no means what 0.0 is but also keep the pvp nature that is not in high sec. a way for anybody to slighty "police" they're system, not to the effect of concord, and not to the effect that wait 15 minutes and be on your way either.

Complacency's Bane
Caldari
Posted - 2006.10.12 18:42:00 - [298]
 

Originally by: keen666
to allow it's members to have a longer aggression towards crimnals (flagging longer than 15 minutes) in system.
Most pirates are outlaws, and even if they arent, as long as you dont pod them your sec status will be fine.

This is a complicated solution which does nothing. You went three hundred and sixty degrees on this problem.

Ella Darkstar
Posted - 2006.10.12 19:01:00 - [299]
 

Originally by: keen666
i've just had a new idea (to me anyway). stop me if it's allready been brought up. and don't take it wrong, i'm really not trying to nerf pirates or give antipirates any real benifits. and this is a very rough outline, i'm not being to specific with the idea.

i do believe that low-sec is not really low sec. it's more like less sec than 0 sec because it can't be controlled and anyone can easily shoot at anybody else. maybe if corps could find some sort of control on a particular system, by doing something (similar to control towers, and by that i mean something that would cost lots and take skills and everything else), to allow it's members to have a longer aggression towards crimnals (flagging longer than 15 minutes) in system.

now, this would and have to go both ways somehow, ie...pirate and bounty hunter corps could both do it in thier "controled" systems.

this way, if you do have someone that is a criminal, you can have more of an ability to do something about it. now i say criminal, but if a pirate corp could do it as well, they could get targets from it the same way. criminal is in referance to the controlled system. so if a bounty hunter came and messed with your pirate corp. he would have the same penalties toward the pirate corp because in "thier" system, he is the criminal. now this would be by no means what 0.0 is but also keep the pvp nature that is not in high sec. a way for anybody to slighty "police" they're system, not to the effect of concord, and not to the effect that wait 15 minutes and be on your way either.


This is actually not a bad idea. I would propose a slight change: allow players to shipkill (but not podkill) people in their "sovereignty." This gives you a mechanic to control a system, to impose order (or disorder to your liking) and incentive to maintain control. It encourages corps to move out and support each other. Basically, it creates a mini-alliace system, while allowing some safety to players who want to solo.

sharkyballs
Amarr
Dkiller Delta Force Corp.
CORPVS DELICTI
Posted - 2006.10.12 20:51:00 - [300]
 

Edited by: sharkyballs on 12/10/2006 20:51:30
sorry, accidentally posted with an alt before

Originally by: Complacency's Bane
Originally by: keen666
to allow it's members to have a longer aggression towards crimnals (flagging longer than 15 minutes) in system.
Most pirates are outlaws, and even if they arent, as long as you dont pod them your sec status will be fine.

This is a complicated solution which does nothing. You went three hundred and sixty degrees on this problem.


actually i did not go 360 degrees because we're talking about controlled systems, not pirating. and most pirates are not blinky. it does take a while for you to get that way and then yes it doesn't matter, so you shouldnt' care if you are blinky. but from living in low sec for the past 4 months, i know that most of the characters that commit crimes are not blinky. this would again allow a slight ability to "police" a system. if your committing a crime, it shouldn't matter what your sec status is, and there should be a little better way of controlling it. like i said, it works for pirates as well.

i think you just like arguing for the sake of it unless you trully didn't understand my post.


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