open All Channels
seplocked Crime and Punishment
blankseplocked Low-Sec : A critique
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (11)

Author Topic

Demonique
Minmatar
WOLFPACK DELTA
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.22 08:33:00 - [1]
 

First of all, I’d like to thank you for taking the time to read this, it is a subject with which I find a certain affinity, since, like a few others out there i choose to make low security space my home.

In the following post I will express my feelings on the state of low security space, I will offer some possible solutions, and ratify what I believe are the consequences of inaction. Towards the end I will clarify some points on which I would dearly like the opinions of my fellow games, whether positive or negative. But please, put your inner child to rest and try to be constructive.

I will also try and address the situation from a fair standpoint, understanding that I am a pirate is one thing, but ignoring this post because you think it is just another pirate looking for easy kills would be the wrong thing to do, whatever conclusion you end up with after reading.

The Pirate Point

Low security space is the proverbial ghost town of the Eve world at the moment, in this past week, your meager protagonist and his friends have been out hunting every night without fail, and what we have seen has dismayed us.

Endless systems of 0.3 - 0.1 space completely devoid of any activity what so ever, when one does come across a system with pilots in local, they are more often than not docked around a POS, or other Pirates.

My personal feeling on this is that this is a tragedy. It has reduced Low Security space to a series of boring un-eventful systems, with the occasional Gank-Squad-Gate-Camp in between.

I for one do not particularly enjoy camping gates, it is tedious, and it pangs of unfairness.

I long for the thrill of success, the effort tracking your target down with the scanner, warping in on his belt, and not knowing exactly whether you will win or not. Unfortunately low security no longer seems to offer this aspect of game play anymore, and has forced pirates to turn to High Sec Ore Aggravating, or gate camping.

None PvP’er

Whether you’re a miner, or an upstanding combat pilot who likes nothing more than blasting Gurista’s & Angels into smithereens, lets face it, low sec offers you nothing anymore.

The bounties and loot offered by NPC pirates in Low-Sec space are not that much higher than in High-Sec, and the meager increase in return per kill defiantly doesn’t justify the risk associated with taking your nice shiny new Battle cruiser into the proverbial “Lions Den”
The Ore offered in Low-Sec fairs no better when it comes to return on risk, it is quite possible to earn a decent living by mining in High security area’s, and I suspect, a lot less stressful.

Game Mechanics

I think I speak for everyone when I say thank-you to CCP for making and supporting this game, and whilst TQ has some unfortunate problems at the moment, we are happy in the knowledge that it is being worked on as we speak.

Now, I do not know CCP’s exact setup, and neither do I really understand the mechanics of how problematic massive server load in a single location or node can be.

But it seems logical, does it not, that having 200+ players all logged on into Jita at the same moment in time would create some lag issues, whilst at the same time an equivalent Low-Sec system has 4 people (all around a POS =P) and suffers very little, or even no lag.

What I’m suggesting is a mechanic that will spread the EVE population out more evenly, sure, some people will not venture into Low-Sec no matter how great the rewards, and that is their prerogative. Many people however will venture into, and even make their homes in Low-Sec assuming it was worth the risk.

By moving people out of the crowded EVE Hubs, like Jita, we may find that the game not only becomes more interesting to play, but more “playable” also.

Demonique
Minmatar
WOLFPACK DELTA
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.22 08:33:00 - [2]
 

Final Thoughts

People are not instinctively stupid, well maybe a few (waves to corp.), but generally people operate on a basis of “Risk Minimization”, quite simply put, no-one in their right mind is going to venture into Low-Security space unless they Perceive the rewards to be worth the risk.

And quite frankly, at the moment, I don’t think the rewards are worth it.

I would like to point out that I’m not for one second talking about taking ANYTHING away from high sec that it currently has; I am simply speaking about adding an attractive factor to low sec.

It may be a good idea to open this up for discussion; I am very interested to hear your opinions on;

1) Does Low security Space need a facelift?
2) Are the risks of entering Low-Sec worth the rewards gained?
3) What would you do to attract more people to the Low Security areas?

Once again I thank you for taking the time to read this, and look forward to reading your responses’.

Devian 666
Transmetropolitan
Posted - 2006.09.22 08:43:00 - [3]
 

That's harsh but I agree.

Pirating in low sec isnt' really rewarding. Pop a few miners or ratters and get a sec status drop. Head out into 0.0 to do the same thing and you get no security status drop, that and better rats when things are slow.

Low sec is just a starting ground for new pirates but ultimately station pirating is just an easy way to start without need to put in much effort. Given that pirates are lazy by nature it's not surprising that it's popular.

One method of improving low sec is through social change. Why not let all the carebears have low sec so that they get rich enough to lose haulers full of t2 gear to you in 0.0? YARRRR!!

Skybar
Minmatar
Deviance Inc
DeStInY.
Posted - 2006.09.22 08:43:00 - [4]
 

Being a Pirate myself I have noticed great variety of low-sec population - Caldari low-sec is filled with people. These are however only people out looking for fights and the area is dangerous for any mining ship.

On the other hand, Minmatar low-sec is quite dead except for a few systems with a complex and stations with decent agents. But the population only reach within that system - can be 20-30 in local while the surrounding ones are as good as empty.

This area gives pretty opportunities to live in low-sec without much fear of being attacked by a gank squad and thus have the occasional mining op.

Not sure however if this needs to be fixed, but a spread in the player population would be interesting. But I believe there was some taxing comming for having buy/sell orders in a well populated system, so that may widen the markets and thus where the players go.


Demonique
Minmatar
WOLFPACK DELTA
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.22 09:02:00 - [5]
 

How about making a rarer ore type availible in low sec?

Or bringing back battleship rat spawns?


Luke Pubcrawler
Posted - 2006.09.22 09:37:00 - [6]
 

I have to agree with much the OP has said. I spend most of my time Ratting, some misions, some mining. PvP is n ot something I go out of my way to find but I accept it as a fundamental hazard of the game. Recently my corp moved operations to lowsec and I hoped to see more interesting gameplay and better rewards as highsec had become a little tedious. Lowsec proved bitterly disappointing. Rewards were not much higher, pirates much more numerous.The increased piracy I accept, the low rewards however are a problem.

Taking my relatively newbie life in my hands I ventured out into 0.0. No gatecamp on the entrance system (I checked first to make sure it was clear) and once into 0.0 lower risk then 0.1 and greater rewards. True I am talking about relatively civilised "border" 0.0 with a station close by but nethertheless 0.0.

As a 2million SP player in Caracal I can make better ISK in 0.0 than I can in 0.4 to 0.1 with less risk - to my mind something is wrong.Even in my ferox I have trouble finishing lvl3 missions quickly (some I cannot do) yet 0.0 is safer than lowsec lvl3s for me, probably as safe as highsec lvl3s as I lost a ferox in a 0.8 lvl3 mission due to lag.

My own advice to a 3month old player would be to ignore lowsec altogher, graba good but expendable fighting ship, work out when 0.0 entry system is uncamped and make a brak for 0.0. If you find a system with an open station (which do exist I promise) you might never go back. If the station I have found refined then I would have no reason at all to reenter lowsec. As it is I will do run once a week to refine garbage loot and buy a few hard to find items.

Celeste Storm
Posted - 2006.09.22 09:47:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Celeste Storm on 22/09/2006 09:48:06
Edited by: Celeste Storm on 22/09/2006 09:47:17
Demonique, I must say I absolutely understand ur point.

I believe one of the main "problems" is the possebility of being attacked at any time. As u might understand most players from high sec invest lots of money in their ships. If u look at the typical low sec pirate setup u will hardly find anything expensive (0.0 setups are something different).

This huge gap between ultra expensive mission ships and disposable pirate ships (and the relatively small disadvantage of loosing it) is in my eyes the reason why mission runners dont take their expensive ships in low sec. Now ask urself, what is the reason of having spend hundreds of million ISK for that ship and its equipment if u dont use it?

I really doubt that a casual mission runner would ever change his/her opinion about this.
I think mission runner is the wrong attempt to populate low sec. A better way would be convince people that PvP _IS_ fun!

Here are some ideas how this can be achieved:

Problem:
Most high sec players have very expensive implant sets. They dont what to loose them in a PvP fight (lag, blob, camp, disconnect whatever).

Solution:
Make it easier to use / install jump clones. Do u think I go into 0.0 for ratting in my "empire-mission-run" body? Wink
No. I have a jump clone installed, just 2 jumps from 0.0 away. Fitted with disposable implants. I can have fun for a few days without the risk of loosing my +4 attribute and crystal set.


Problem:
Gate camps and blob lamer. While some might argue its fun for them, most agree that its actually lame and drives more people away then doing any good.

Solution:
Well, this is not easy. I actually dont know a fair solution, which would not nerf a pirates life to much. Maybe this is about "think what u do", "get a grip of the results/consequences", "being a bit more mature?".
Unnerfing cloaking devices could be a solution here. instead of camping the gate, a pirate could hide in the belts and decloak if somebody approaches - without a recalibration time! Maybe the range could be reduced by a bit. ;)


OK, I'll stop here. Lets discuss. Wink

Cel.

P.S.: Something which really ****es me of:

Originally by: Devian 666
Why not let all the carebears ...


could u pls for gods sake skip the fcking carebear thing? Rolling Eyes or would u like it if I call u a looser, ****** whatever? If any of u so called pirates what to have a SERIOUS discussion about low sec/high sec changes which envolves both parties in a fair way u should show more respect and politeness. Damn! Wink

Demonique
Minmatar
WOLFPACK DELTA
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.22 09:54:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Demonique on 22/09/2006 10:00:58
I have to say i dont particularly aggree with the whole carebear thing... unless the person self proclaims it.

It is derrogetory and demeaning, and whilst i will kill and pod you in a beat of my heart, you can be sure that i will allways be civil and polite.

Yes it would be fantastic if we could get more people interested in pvp.... but, i dont think this is going to happen without them experiancing it first hand.

And no, sniping from 200km's does not in my opinion count as pvp........ I will gate cammp and snipe when neccersarry. but its poor fun.

If we could make some rare type of ore only availible in .4 and below it would bring miners, if we make 1 mil bounty npc's in belts it will bring pve'ers ..... what are the downsides to eaither of these solutions?

Straw Man
Posted - 2006.09.22 10:05:00 - [9]
 

In my experience, the superstitions surrounding low sec and 0.0 space are highly exagerrated. Effectively, the deathmatchers have created a culture that is (surprise surprise) not renewable. Players who actually attempt to pirate suffer the most, as the targets that would otherwise be funding ransoms are now self-policing, and turning their nose up at greater profit margins because they value their ships and implants far too much to risk them.

Whoever engendered the notions that killmails are sufficient reward has effectively swindled morons into providing border security at 0 cost, all for the love of yarr. I don't PvP often, and when I do, I lose. That's not a problem. The fact that the person that did it was not after my resources, and couldn't care less whether I was in a freighter or a shuttle... that bothers me.

So maybe the answer is something along the lines of: Hey, actual pirates, you're good at PVP. Why not kick the **** out of a bunch of goons who can't spell resource re-allocation specialist, much less do the job.

And make sure you get a ransom out of the deal. :)

Demonique
Minmatar
WOLFPACK DELTA
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.22 10:26:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Straw Man
In my experience, the superstitions surrounding low sec and 0.0 space are highly exagerrated. Effectively, the deathmatchers have created a culture that is (surprise surprise) not renewable. Players who actually attempt to pirate suffer the most, as the targets that would otherwise be funding ransoms are now self-policing, and turning their nose up at greater profit margins because they value their ships and implants far too much to risk them.

Whoever engendered the notions that killmails are sufficient reward has effectively swindled morons into providing border security at 0 cost, all for the love of yarr. I don't PvP often, and when I do, I lose. That's not a problem. The fact that the person that did it was not after my resources, and couldn't care less whether I was in a freighter or a shuttle... that bothers me.

So maybe the answer is something along the lines of: Hey, actual pirates, you're good at PVP. Why not kick the **** out of a bunch of goons who can't spell resource re-allocation specialist, much less do the job.

And make sure you get a ransom out of the deal. :)


Surely the point is that the profit margins from low sec are not great enough to attract people.. so we end up with the current situation

better rewards = bigger low sec population

Tecam Hund
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2006.09.22 10:44:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Demonique
Final Thoughts



1) Does Low security Space need a facelift?
2) Are the risks of entering Low-Sec worth the rewards gained?
3) What would you do to attract more people to the Low Security areas?

Once again I thank you for taking the time to read this, and look forward to reading your responses’.



1) Absolutely. I am running into the same issues with only people in low sec being level 4 mission runners. Belt rats don't offer enough reward for anybody to even be bothered. Ores and ice are ok I think, but those who can stand up for themselves are running level 4 missions instead because they are much more profitable. Those who aren't very skilled just stay in high sec. Even complexes that at one point were hard to get into are now abandoned.

2) No, the reward isn't worth the risk except for low sec level 4 agents.

3) I think making loot drops a bit better would be a good start. Maybe add some better asteroids spawn randomly in belts in very low quantities. Where did the pirate hideouts go that once used to be listed in the pirate logs? All i can see now are in 0.0.

The comming up exploration system might actually help low security if the devs put precious enough goodies in low security areas.

Overall I think the solution would be anything that would take players from running level 4s or afk mining veld in haulers into low security belts. It is very much needed because pirate profession is dieing. As OP stated, gate camping is now the only way to "pirate" to see at least some action.

Celeste Storm
Posted - 2006.09.22 10:44:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Demonique
If we could make some rare type of ore only availible in .4 and below it would bring miners, if we make 1 mil bounty npc's in belts it will bring pve'ers ..... what are the downsides to eaither of these solutions?


Ok, lets imagine CCP would do this. What could be the result?

a) The sheer great opportunity could actually lure more people into low sec, mining and ratting. But I already hear the 0.0 people screaming for blood and murder as those benefits were two of the main reasons for going into unregulated space.

b) The economical impact of having a relativly easy access to valuable ore types could be devastating when cheap minerals a flooding the markets in high sec. On the one hand this could make ships a lot cheaper to build and resulting in a better market price, but then again what about 0.0 miners?
They could still use their ore for their own purposes, but have a hard time of selling the ships on the open market for the usual price. Wink

I still think the best way of getting people into low sec/0.0 is to let them expirience the look and feel first, without a risk of actually loosing something. Maybe some kind of an arena or training ground could provide a solution.

Let me explain my idea. Take a common plex and remove all npc from it. U enter the plex in a shuttle and head to a fitting station. There u can get any ship u like (and can fly with ur skills) and fit it like u want for a small fee. after u changed ur ship u move through the second gate into the actual arena. Here u can fight, destroy other players ships or get destroyed but u cannot pod anybody or get poded. Destroyed ships dont drop loot cans and u cannot warp out from this area in ur ship. The only way to leave is trough the gate u came in. The gate can only be used by shuttles to prevent the obvious exploits.

This way people could train PvP and tactics without the risk of a "real podkill".

It might sound a bit hard to implement, but if u think about it - most of the features are already ingame and can be adopted quite easily.

Cel.

Demonique
Minmatar
WOLFPACK DELTA
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.22 10:49:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Celeste Storm
Originally by: Demonique
If we could make some rare type of ore only availible in .4 and below it would bring miners, if we make 1 mil bounty npc's in belts it will bring pve'ers ..... what are the downsides to eaither of these solutions?


Ok, lets imagine CCP would do this. What could be the result?

a) The sheer great opportunity could actually lure more people into low sec, mining and ratting. But I already hear the 0.0 people screaming for blood and murder as those benefits were two of the main reasons for going into unregulated space.

b) The economical impact of having a relativly easy access to valuable ore types could be devastating when cheap minerals a flooding the markets in high sec. On the one hand this could make ships a lot cheaper to build and resulting in a better market price, but then again what about 0.0 miners?
They could still use their ore for their own purposes, but have a hard time of selling the ships on the open market for the usual price. Wink


You mean like when they made Omber availible in high sec ?


Celeste Storm
Posted - 2006.09.22 10:52:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Celeste Storm on 22/09/2006 10:53:10
Originally by: Demonique
You mean like when they made Omber availible in high sec ?



Yes. And this could be even more devastating. But I'm not a miner or manufaturer. I dont have such a great understanding of the market in Eve. Its only a guess. But look at the Isogen price, it a bit.... ridiculous. Wink

Cel.

agent apple
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.09.22 10:53:00 - [15]
 

CCP continually push to get people out of high sec but with the majority of 0.0 claimed and fortified by networks of poses and outposts this leaves little in the way of access for people to carve out a bit of space of their own, instead they inverably sign on to existing powers.

I see no reason low sec should even exist, in its place I would create poorer quality 0.0. Many would claim that if you dont have the determination to go take a piece of the already existing 0.0 space your undeserving of it, but I would say that a range in player ability not need mean exclusion from the high end game.

In laymans terms would you rather sit like fatted cattle reaping the rewards of 0.0 or encourage more people to pvp, personally I dont lack isk I do however lack good fights which these days are fewer and further between, create smaller enitities you might just get some smaller fights and indirectly reduce the amount of blobbing while still allowing for epic fleet battles.

The bigger aliances would hold their space and smaller factions, corporations and alliances would have a place to begin the journey of empire building. Smaller battles fought between younger players could and would only be a good thing for eve. Should the larger alliances atempt to move on the space they would inevitably overstretch themselves leading to conflicts on many fronts and the opportunity for multiple smaller groups to engage with the big boys.

This would however require a complete overhaul of poses as in their current state biggest blob wins. With the ability to knock a pos out in one sitting, could bring something back to eve which is sadly missing.

Give people something to fight for and they just might. Give them the opportunity for purely consensual combat and low risk high gain living in high sec and guess what theyll choose.

Demonique
Minmatar
WOLFPACK DELTA
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.22 11:04:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: agent apple
CCP continually push to get people out of high sec but with the majority of 0.0 claimed and fortified by networks of poses and outposts this leaves little in the way of access for people to carve out a bit of space of their own, instead they inverably sign on to existing powers.

I see no reason low sec should even exist, in its place I would create poorer quality 0.0. Many would claim that if you dont have the determination to go take a piece of the already existing 0.0 space your undeserving of it, but I would say that a range in player ability not need mean exclusion from the high end game.

In laymans terms would you rather sit like fatted cattle reaping the rewards of 0.0 or encourage more people to pvp, personally I dont lack isk I do however lack good fights which these days are fewer and further between, create smaller enitities you might just get some smaller fights and indirectly reduce the amount of blobbing while still allowing for epic fleet battles.

The bigger aliances would hold their space and smaller factions, corporations and alliances would have a place to begin the journey of empire building. Smaller battles fought between younger players could and would only be a good thing for eve. Should the larger alliances atempt to move on the space they would inevitably overstretch themselves leading to conflicts on many fronts and the opportunity for multiple smaller groups to engage with the big boys.

This would however require a complete overhaul of poses as in their current state biggest blob wins. With the ability to knock a pos out in one sitting, could bring something back to eve which is sadly missing.

Give people something to fight for and they just might. Give them the opportunity for purely consensual combat and low risk high gain living in high sec and guess what theyll choose.


Whilst i dont aggree with much of what you say, you do make some rather good points.

Low-Sec space serves a very valid purpose, their are those of us in the Eve universe that run companies and business's in the RL, and we play eve for a little escapism... thus is my reason for pirating.

I don not even want to be part of a large alliance... much less ever run one.... i do however want the adreniline rush from entering a touch and go fight with another player, be it 1 on 1 or fleet battles.

However, you are absolutly correct that people will not fight unless they have something to fight for......... I may be perversing your comments slightly, and forthis i apoligise...... but doesnt improving the payout from operating in low sec give peole something to fight for?

Now, a serious responce to the economical issue of implementing a rare ore type in low sec;
I do not believe that tere would be any disastourous results from moving a rarer ore tpe into lowsec........... allthoguh i am not suggesting this is the best solution to the problem at hand.

I personally prefer the idea's of bigger bounty pirates, or pirate hideouts in lowsec, allthough i would dearly love to see a massive low-sec mining op again Sad

Stylom
Absolutely No Retreat
Posted - 2006.09.22 11:25:00 - [17]
 

I spend a fair bit of time agent running and I fully agree with the points made about risk v return.

If you want to see low sec busy - just remove all the Level 4 agents from high sec space - then its a simple judgement call for agents runners whether to take the risk. Obviously this would push some of the high sec players to set up permenant bases in low sec.

Similarily why not make all the ice fields in low sec space - Obvioulsy this would pull some of the 0.0 players into low sec on a permenant basis.

Just a thought like
Sty

Demonique
Minmatar
WOLFPACK DELTA
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.22 11:29:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Stylom
I spend a fair bit of time agent running and I fully agree with the points made about risk v return.

If you want to see low sec busy - just remove all the Level 4 agents from high sec space - then its a simple judgement call for agents runners whether to take the risk. Obviously this would push some of the high sec players to set up permenant bases in low sec.

Similarily why not make all the ice fields in low sec space - Obvioulsy this would pull some of the 0.0 players into low sec on a permenant basis.

Just a thought like
Sty



OMG ... your a genious .. only have ice fields in low sec Very HappyVery Happy .... You can only have a pos in low sec anyway, and ice is only used to either fuel a pos or sell to pos owners... or set up cynasaural fields... which requires low sec anyway.

I whole heartedly aggee .....

/signed


Dupac
Subite
Posted - 2006.09.22 11:35:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Celeste Storm


Problem:
Gate camps and blob lamer. While some might argue its fun for them, most agree that its actually lame and drives more people away then doing any good.

Solution:
Well, this is not easy. I actually dont know a fair solution, which would not nerf a pirates life to much. Maybe this is about "think what u do", "get a grip of the results/consequences", "being a bit more mature?".
Unnerfing cloaking devices could be a solution here. instead of camping the gate, a pirate could hide in the belts and decloak if somebody approaches - without a recalibration time! Maybe the range could be reduced by a bit. ;)



I more or less completely agree with the OP, low sec needs a serious buff to attract people. I'm not a huge fan of gatecamps either but hunting in belts is a massive waste of time - the majority of systems are empty in low sec apart from agent systems or complexes. To the poster I've quoted - If I sat in a belt cloaked waiting on people I'd be there for a week before anyone turned up.

Why do pirates gatecamp? Because there is no one in the belts.

Maximillian Power
Minmatar
Legio Immortalis
Posted - 2006.09.22 11:41:00 - [20]
 

I spend a good deal of time wandering around low-sec myself.

I'm not a pirate per sé - an opportunist to be sure. ugh

The problem with low-sec is that it is not worth it because if you lose one battlecruiser with fittings that is 9 mil down the drain at least.

Lose a hauler with good cargo and you could be talking a lot more.

And pirates don't ransom anymore. ---> In the many times that I have been attacked and unfortunately defeated -- I have never once been asked for a ransom.

So I won't haul across low - sec. I'll rat and mission in low-sec because:
1) I can defend myself in most 1 v 1's
2) If there is anyone else around I will stand back - have a scan etc

unfortunately most players can't afford this kind of loss and so avoid low-sec.

Simple really.

What it comes down to is the likelihood of being attacked and destroyed. It is higher now - presumably due to the higher number of pirates. If the chances of being attacked and destroyed were lower then more people would take a chance. Simple tbh

The pirate business is putting itself out of business due to popping shuttles without scanning etc.

Celeste Storm
Posted - 2006.09.22 11:59:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Celeste Storm on 22/09/2006 12:00:44
Originally by: Dupac
Why do pirates gatecamp? Because there is no one in the belts.


Why is nobody in the belts? Because nobody get there because of the gate camps. So we are where we started. Wink

Cel.

/EDIT: why does the forum stars out the first letters of ur name Dupac when I quote it? ShockedSurprised

Mahu
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2006.09.22 11:59:00 - [22]
 

While I agree that low sec isn't rewarding enough to enticed anyone other than new npcers or miners I also think that the reward of high sec are way too great.

Spamming lvl 3 or 4 missions for huge reward versus very little risk is far more enticing. Why would anyone with more than a few million skill points even bother ratting in low sec these days? Just hit a nice lvl 3 or 4 agent and rake in the cash!

Yes I am a pirate but this is not just about more ppl for me to kill. In recent months I have become sick and tired of killing my nth noob there is no challenge what so ever. Now more organised groups more experienced players would be more equiped to fight back and make money if the reward of low sec was higher. Mining ops would be a more common sight as well.

For me the answer would be to scrap all lvl 4 missions in high sec and keep only poor quality level 3 ones there. Relocating the rest to low sec and forcing people to go places where there is a risk. After all this is a pvp game and even building and trading are forms of pvp.

High sec has it's place for the newer guys to learn in safely, I just dont think it should encorage for 1-2 year old players to stay in safely making billions.

Probably not a very popular opinion.


Echade
Posted - 2006.09.22 12:05:00 - [23]
 

Well.. aren't they depleating the respawn rate of ice in areas where it's been over mined... maybe that is something that needs to happen on a much grander scale... if the resources run out (including NPC rat attacks, because why would a rat try to blow up ships in areas that are barren?) then people would be forced to look in other sectors for resources. Double the effort by having it effect the market when prices for ore and ships sky rocket withouth an infusion of fresh ore into the system from the low secs.

Probally just dreaming, but an idea none the less.

Celeste Storm
Posted - 2006.09.22 12:06:00 - [24]
 

kewl, another thread is being transformed into a "Nerf mission runner in high sec" topic. Its a shame. Mad

Cel.

Mahu
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2006.09.22 12:51:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Mahu on 22/09/2006 12:54:09
Originally by: Celeste Storm
kewl, another thread is being transformed into a "Nerf mission runner in high sec" topic. Its a shame. Mad

Cel.


How can CCP make low sec more enticing and which people are more likely to be the ones moving out there? Many of the 0.0 people wont move to low sec since they are involved in alliances and teritorial matters plus they can make good money.

It's not about a nerf in my opinion its about ballance. To go from low sec to 0.0 you need more skill points generally and to be in a more advanced state of the game. The reward of going from low sec to 0.0 is more money and often more risk due to no sentries, bigger rats, more alliance gank fleets etc. So in my opinion it seems like there should be a natural evolution.

I understand where you are coming from and I hope u understand that I'm not just asking for more easy targets. If low sec were more of a challenge and more rewarding I truely believe that there would be more fun for all. With reasonable situational awareness ratting anywhere doesn't have to be much of a risk as long as people are paying attention to local. The key areas where you just cant help getting killed are often at gates which maybe should get looked at or maybe rearanging the universe a little to reduce the problem of choke points. I dont just want a steady stream of easy to kill people, I would like more challenge in the game. As things stand I just get a high ratio of noob kills versus good fights.

For me there should allways be at least some risk in the game other wise it just becomes an excercise in money making. I've done the high sec mission running and made a lot of money and I took absolutely no risk appart from the one we all take with lag.


Arkani Gera
Hibbleton
Posted - 2006.09.22 13:03:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Celeste Storm

Let me explain my idea. Take a common plex and remove all npc from it. U enter the plex in a shuttle and head to a fitting station. There u can get any ship u like (and can fly with ur skills) and fit it like u want for a small fee. after u changed ur ship u move through the second gate into the actual arena. Here u can fight, destroy other players ships or get destroyed but u cannot pod anybody or get poded. Destroyed ships dont drop loot cans and u cannot warp out from this area in ur ship. The only way to leave is trough the gate u came in. The gate can only be used by shuttles to prevent the obvious exploits.

This way people could train PvP and tactics without the risk of a "real podkill".

It might sound a bit hard to implement, but if u think about it - most of the features are already ingame and can be adopted quite easily.

Cel.


sooo, you want to make a "sisi on tq"?
you go somewhere, fight, lose/win, don't pod/get podded, go back to fight again without losing anything but a token fee?

if this is what you want, there is the test server and the free for all, you can also try the exact same in highsec with your fellow corpmates...


you also seem to think the major reason why ppl don't move into low-sec is that they do not want to lose their implants, and this is why i felt the need to repeat an old and very wise saying "do not fly what you can not afford to lose" btw, this also means, don't plug 500 million worth of implants into your head if you can't afford to lose them...



Trojanman190
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2006.09.22 13:16:00 - [27]
 

I generally stay in high sec. Only reason I go to low sec is to hunt pirates, because that is all that is there.

A few of my observations....

There are three types of players in low sec,
in order from most plentiful to least common:
1.) Pirates.
2.) People hunting pirates.
3.) Noobs who dont know any better.

Pirates are by far the most common.

So before I start spouting about the lack of ore to mine and such in low sec... I think pirates are the number one issue people dont care for low sec. There are far to many pirates. Anytime you enter a system in low sec you can bet that 9 out of 10 people in local are going to be pirates. If you make it through that system, there will be even more pirates. You cant mine in low sec, even if there was good ore and you did have an escort... there are just to many pirates to fight them all. And as it stands, mining ships have a pathetic tank. Yes, even the hulk. In low sec you arent really worried about tanking rats, you are worried about the bad dudes that show up.

If the numbers reversed, and pirates were a lot more rare, I think low sec could really open up. I think there should be greater penalties for being a low sec pirate. In 0.0 there are no laws, so there is no reason to lose sec or anything like that. But in .1 - .4 it is still semi lawful space and you take sec hits. There are plenty of -9.0 guys zooming around like it isnt a big deal. Guys like that shouldnt be able to come so far into low sec so easily. And for guys with bounty, there shouldnt just be a reward for the person who kills them... there should be a PENALTY for the person the bounty is on. So say for example our -9 pirate Blackbeard has a 150 mil bounty and he gets whacked by a bounty hunter. The bounty hunter shouldg et the 150 mil like normal... but the pirate should LOSE 150 mil from his wallet as well.... dont give it as an extra to the bounty hunter, just have it disapear, and isk sink. This way having bounties is what it should be: A BAD THING. This would actually give an incentive to put bounties on pirates and it would actually make the bounties pretty painful. YOu could even make it so the lower your sec status, the more your bounty gets multiplied. So a -5 pirate with 20 mil on his head would actually lose 100 mil and his killer would get 20 mil.

I think this would lower the number of low sec pirates zooming around. Less pirates mean more GOOD people. If we get miners and such into low sec then pirates who actually are willing to risk that bounty system could move in and start acting like pirates and the OUTLAWS that they are. Systems in low sec should not be dominated by outlaws... I think this system is beneficial to true pirates because you will actually start seeing cargo ships and such flying through low sec. No more ganking at first sight... you may actually want to start asking for dudes to start ejecting thier cargo like you should...


Demonique
Minmatar
WOLFPACK DELTA
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.22 13:17:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Celeste Storm
kewl, another thread is being transformed into a "Nerf mission runner in high sec" topic. Its a shame. Mad

Cel.


This thread was not meant to be a : "lets take something from high sec" discussion.

But rather a : "how can we balance low sec" thread....... your above post does not really add anything to the discussion imo.

Now, the best idea ive come accross so far is the ice mining one, since it doesnt really effect people who want to stay in high sec very much, unless theyre making a living out of selling ice ore to people in low sec, in which case there is still risk.... someone has to haul it Smile

What else do we have on the table?

More ide's please guys Very HappyVery Happy

Kayleigh Xaos
Trader's Academy
Daikoku Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2006.09.22 13:31:00 - [29]
 

My primary jobs in game are as a mission runner and a trader. I don't stray into low sec too often though I'd like to, so I imagine I'm one of the people you're talking about. Given that please allow me to throw in my two cents.

First, to quote Demonique: "Surely the point is that the profit margins from low sec are not great enough to attract people.. so we end up with the current situation"

I don't think that changing the mechanics of the game is going to help at all. Why? Because most high-sec denizens stay there because they want to play the game for relatively short periods and not have to set themselves back days, weeks, or months because of PvP. Move the l4 agents to lowsec and I'll guarantee that l4 missions will, for the majority of mission runers, become a thing of the past. Do what you want to move things into low sec, but you still won't be going after the source of the problem.

And what is the source of the problem? Celeste pointed out the tip of the iceberg: "could u pls for gods sake skip the fcking carebear thing?" What encouragement do I have to go into an area when I'm going to get bombarded by an overpopulation of people who talk like drunken 12 year olds on AIM? I'm not sure if we are simply dealing with a very vocal minority, but what most high-secers see when they look at low sec are people they don't feel like dealing with. I stick with my Corporation and Alliance simply because they're good people. I like talking to them and they make the game fun. A pirate, on the other hand, who keeps chatting in local about how he is going to "pwnzors" me as soon as I get my "***** carebear ass" out of the station isn't the type of person I'd want to lock horns with. It simply isn't enjoyable for the vast majority of us.

Thus, if you want us to go into low-sec YOU have to make it appealing. Remember that Eve is designed to be player driven. The markets flow based on what characters want and are willing to pay for. In much the same way what makes up low-sec is entirely based on the players found in it. You guys said it yourself, there are low-sec systems made of nothing but pirates looking for sparse prey and gate camps. Golly. That sounds fun, doesn't it?

As also stated above I can easily make a jump clone and put together a PvP ship for some low-sec adventures. Hell...I've trained everything under the sun because I like to try different things and get around as much as possible. I mine, I produce, I trade, I run missions, I explore. Want me to explore low-sec? Make it appealing.

Some suggestions? Certainly.

1) Make war on the gate gankers. The belts and complexes will remain empty until we can get there in one piece. My guess would be that for every 3 people sniped by a typhoon one will never enter low-sec again, and another won't ever go near that gate.
2) Be friendlier...especially on eve-o. This has, for the most part, been a great thread. Keep it up. Don't whine. Don't complain. And most certainly don't insult. As the old saying goes, you attract more flies with honey than vinegar.
3) I know this one is out of left field, but make sure someone stickies a really nice guide on how jump clones work. Trust me, it's hard to find.
4) Also make up a guide on exactly how the law works in low-sec. What can I get away with down there before the gates blow me up? Honestly I don't know much about the mechanics of low-sec, and if you haven't guessed, us high-sec folk like to know what's going on and what our risks are. Mystery = very high risk.

So, in short, it has a lot more to do with the people in low-sec than with the mechanics. You simply can't force people to go where they don't want to. They'll change their gameplay. Make it appealing, show them the ropes, and make sure that the forums have plenty of info for them.

But that's just me. Twisted Evil

Natas Dog
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.09.22 13:33:00 - [30]
 

Not all of low sec has crappy RvR. .3 and .4 is pretty crappy RvR, I do agree. But, .1 and .2 has a very good return on investment IMO. Mission rewards are quite decent compared to high sec, the ore in the space my corp is operating out of yields a respectable amount of Nocx and Zyd, and the belt rats rarely drop some very nice stuff.

Out of the above three things mentioned, the only thing I can say I'd like to see boosted would be the belt rats. It would be nice to see a BC or some kind of T2 AF/HAC more often in the belts, if not BS rats that are so lauded in 0.0. The best bounty rats I get in the .2 space I operate out of is 185k, that's chump change considering they take a long time for me to kill solo. Granted, I occasionally get a good DC unit or something out of it, but it's not often enough for me to stop mission running and go back to belt ratting. The 7.5k LP rewards and 4-5 mil payouts on L4 missions makes belt ratting a big loser in my mind.

The only reason left for me to run the belts is the occasional prospect of PvP, and I'd rather wait for a miner to call out for help in local and swoop in for the kill from my mission when they do. I really do love PvP in this game, the potential loss really does get the adrenaline pumping.

I do hope something can be done to bring more high sec huggers into low sec, but I can't say that I believe boosting anything about low sec will do it, unless it's a pretty drastic boost. Some people just don't have the stomach to handle that adrenaline rush when someone warps into your belt and you know it's going to be you or him. Me, I live for it.


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (11)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only