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Shin Dari
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.05 10:25:00 - [2191]
 

The advantages of a mobile base are:
* No POS fuel required
* Can use its ship modules and drone bay
* Inter-system travel
[Nomadic/Offensive]

The advantages of a player station:
* Can fabricate larger ships
* Doesn't have limited hanger space
* Can use Moon Harvesting Modules
* No skill requirements for use, only for placement.
* More HP
[Industrial/Defensive]

Types of Player Stations:

Alliance Capital
A true display of military and economic might. The construction of such a player owned structure requires 3 things: high level sovereignty, an orbital interface (custom office/outpost hybrid) and a planet-side central complex/capital. Orbital interfaces are designed to handle the traffic from/to the surface and to defend the Alliance HQ. The CEO of the Alliance is allowed to name the planet after an alliance headquarter has been successfully placed.
An Alliance Capital is never truly finished as there is no practical expansion limit to what can be placed on and below the surface of the planet. It is self sufficient for PI materials, but requires continuous injection of isk to operate.
Skill: Anchoring V & Command Center Upgrades V

Castle Player Station
The equivalent of an very large NPC station.
Manufacturing limit: Carrier
Docking limit: Carrier class
Skill: Anchoring V

Large Player Station
The stat equivalent of current large starbase.
Manufacturing limit: Battleship
Docking limit: Battleship class
Skill: Anchoring IV

Medium Player Station
The stat equivalent of current medium starbase.
Manufacturing limit: Battlecruiser
Docking limit: Battlecruiser class
Skill: Anchoring III

Small Player Station
The stat equivalent of current small starbase.
Manufacturing limit: Cruiser
Docking limit: Cruiser class
Skill: Anchoring II

Micro Player Station
A very small station with only room for 1 service module and only frigates and shuttles can dock with it. Should have low enough EHP for use in missions as enemy structures. Could allow the creation of interesting missions that require the taking over of a small station using Incarna.
Service Slots: 1
Manufacturing limit: Frigate
Docking limit: Frigate class
Skill: Anchoring I


part (2/4)

Shin Dari
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.05 10:29:00 - [2192]
 

Types of Mobile Bases:

Hive Mobile Base
The Hive class POS is only semi-mobile as its lacks a planetary drive. However it does have a very advanced inter-system drive (wormhole drive) that allows it to force its way through 1 or 2 wormholes. Any used wormholes will collapse after use.
There is only large problem with the wormhole drive, is that after it has been activated for the first time, it can't be shut down. Hive can only remain in the same system for 24 hours before the energy buildup in the wormhole drive causes it to automatically jump to a random system within one or two wormholes distance. So the pilot is advised to select one of the systems as the destination before that time is reached.
Docking limit: Carrier (10)
Manufacturing limit: Battleship
Inter-system drive: Wormhole Drive
Skills: Command Ships V & Capital Ships V

Assault Mobile Base
This type of POS is based upon a super carrier hull. However to make room for player ships and the service modules, it will not be able to deploy fighters and bombers but is restricted to normal drones.
Docking limit: Battleship (8)
Manufacturing limit: Battlecruiser
Inter-system drive: Jump Drive
Hull: Super-carrier*
Additional Skills: Command Ships IV & Carrier V

Raider Mobile Base
This type of POS is based upon a carrier hull. However to make room for player ships and the service modules, it will not be able to deploy fighters but is restricted to normal drones.
Docking limit: Battlecruiser (6)
Manufacturing limit: Cruiser
Inter-system drive: Jump Drive
Hull: Carrier* (Rorqual for ORE)
Additional Skills: Command Ships III & Carrier IV

Harasser Mobile Base
This is a sub-capital hull that can store and service a small collection of cruisers.
Docking limit: Cruiser (4)
Manufacturing limit: Frigate
Inter-system drive: Gate-system
Hull: Semi-capital (Orca for ORE)
Skills: Command Ships II & Spaceship Command V

Scout Mobile Base
This is a battleship hull that can store and service a small collection of frigates. Can be used as flagship.
Docking limit: Frigate (2)
Manufacturing limit: Drone
Inter-system drive: Gate-system
Hull: Battleship (tier 3)
Skills: Command Ships I

part (3/4)

Shin Dari
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.05 10:38:00 - [2193]
 

Service modules
Each POS has a number of service slots. These slots can be used to install service modules into a POS. Some service modules take up multiple service slots. A couple services are free and don't need to be installed, such as insurance, repair and fitting.

Nearly all starbase structures will have service module counterparts. However some will be slightly different, for example the owner must install manufacturing lines instead of a manufacturing array, the maximum product size will be determined by the size of the POS.
And there will be service module counterparts for NPC station services, such as processing facilities, corporate offices, medical, etc. Each service module will also expand the Incarna cell of the POS.

Finally, there will also be service modules that are unique to this POS concept so that the concept can work such as the bubble shield generator.

Bubble shield generator
It is visually similar to the old POS shield. It main purpose is to protect the POS and to give exiting ships room to organize. When it is activated, it will stay up until its own fuel tank of Strontium Clathrates runs out. When online this module will drain all POS weapons of power. After it shuts down it will take time to cool off before it can be reactivated or removed. The cool down time is an quarter of the time it was active. Fuel consumption depends upon the size of the POS. It can be set to automaticly activate should the POS get shield, armor or hull damage. A player owned starbase can only have 1 bubble shield generator installed.

Covert Field Emitter
This highly expensive module can isolate the grid from probes and D-scan. However a POS can fit only 1 covert field emitter and there is an duration limit, afterwards the module will need to cool down before it can be reactivated or removed. The cool down time is an quarter of the time it was active.

Possible pure Incarna modules: Gambling Center (Caldari style), Luxurious Resort (Gallente style), Stadium..


Showing Modules
I would like to be able to see what kind of service modules have been installed in a mobile base or player station, however I think that is a luxury and not a requirement.

But if CCP want to make as such that the service modules are shown then I suggest that how much modules would show up on the model. For example: a micro player station can only mount 1 module and this module should show itself in its full glory, as it could constitute over half of the combined volume. For a large player station there will be very few modules that wouldn't fit in its internal volume. So there will be situations in which some modules will show their entire model, a slice of that model or nothing of that model.
If number of possible weapon batteries become a problem then modelers should try and group weapons into a couple of battlements with firing ports.



Sovereignty Structures
Keeping sovereignty the same as before but with few differences. Because new Capital Ship Assemblies and Maintenance Arrays can't be anchored in a POS shield anymore, they will require a replacement in the new system. I would suggest more aesthetically pleasing yards placed in orbit around a planet. These will need massive EHP to make them practical. These should behave like outposts in regards to sovereignty.


Super Capital Construction Yard
The replacement for Capital Ship Assembly Arrays for the construction of super capital ships.

Super Capital Maintenance Bay
The replacement for Capital Ship Maintenance Arrays for the maintenance of super capital ships.

part (4/4)

Well that is what I have, feedback please.

Esiel
Renegade Serenity
Posted - 2011.02.06 03:01:00 - [2194]
 

Do you really think it is because the modular system would be too hard to implement (All it requires is the modules to overlap and restrict where you can place a module.)

The problem is too much work to redo the code is what they have said. I highly doubt your suggestions would be easier to do than creating a simple modular system. It would also change the dynamics of POS's and outpost what you suggest which would create even more problems when it came to implementing it.

Syberbolt8
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.02.06 06:57:00 - [2195]
 

Originally by: Esiel
Do you really think it is because the modular system would be too hard to implement (All it requires is the modules to overlap and restrict where you can place a module.)

The problem is too much work to redo the code is what they have said. I highly doubt your suggestions would be easier to do than creating a simple modular system. It would also change the dynamics of POS's and outpost what you suggest which would create even more problems when it came to implementing it.



I agree with Esiel, this would be a complete redesign of how pos's and outposts work.

Past that I think that your posts belong in a thread of their own, just because its an almost completely different take on how pos's should be, it would draw more views on its own and be more likely to give you useful feedback.

Emmerik
Gallente
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.06 07:46:00 - [2196]
 

/signed

Great idea, modulair POSs...

Shin Dari
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.06 11:45:00 - [2197]
 

Edited by: Shin Dari on 06/02/2011 11:46:39
Originally by: Esiel
Do you really think it is because the modular system would be too hard to implement (All it requires is the modules to overlap and restrict where you can place a module.)
I imagine that the placing of modules would be very difficult to implement in the UI.

Quote:
The problem is too much work to redo the code is what they have said. I highly doubt your suggestions would be easier to do than creating a simple modular system. It would also change the dynamics of POS's and outpost what you suggest which would create even more problems when it came to implementing it.
From what I have heard the old code is rigid and has become partly obscure. That is why I think that CCP should forget about changing the code and focus on creating a parallel system from scratch. This would allow them to make it compatible with new ideas from the start.

But then again that basic idea of leaving the old stuff alone and inserting new stuff in might also be a good way to implement the modular pos concept....


edit: now that I think about it modify my idea to fit with the OP, let me get back to the drawing board.

c'dus
Minmatar
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.02.07 23:16:00 - [2198]
 

/signed

NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.02.07 23:39:00 - [2199]
 

Wow way to much content here to comment on

Overall, though, this is a awesome idea

+1/signed/supported/ccp read this thread ugh

SpaceDCDC
Posted - 2011.02.08 02:26:00 - [2200]
 

+1. Think outside the box.

Mitherien
Posted - 2011.02.08 04:14:00 - [2201]
 

+1 got my vote.

hellwarz
Gallente
Death's first legion
Posted - 2011.02.09 00:51:00 - [2202]
 

slap the dead horse Cool

Khamiz
Catholic School for Boys
Posted - 2011.02.09 00:54:00 - [2203]
 

*flog*

Drebble
Gallente
North Star Networks
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2011.02.09 01:03:00 - [2204]
 

I hate flogging dead horses as much as I hate having my nipples polished with industrial sand paper.

Djambi, the chocolate icing!

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.02.10 13:21:00 - [2205]
 

Still a wonderful idea!

*flogs a bit more*

Kivak Wolf
Lions of Judah Incorporated
Posted - 2011.02.10 16:44:00 - [2206]
 

*flogs the dead horse even more*

Too much to read everything, but the first post is a great idea I think needs to be done.

frsd
Caldari
No.Mercy
Merciless.
Posted - 2011.02.10 19:57:00 - [2207]
 

This is the horse, the horse is amazing!

/me gets a Cat o' nine tails

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.02.11 11:28:00 - [2208]
 

Originally by: Drebble
I hate flogging dead horses as much as I hate having my nipples polished with industrial sand paper.

Djambi, the chocolate icing!


Nice Futurama reference.

Syberbolt8
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.02.14 01:25:00 - [2209]
 

This is a bump, it is like many bumps, but this one is my own.

Shieko Chan
Posted - 2011.02.14 02:14:00 - [2210]
 

The pictures are a nice touch.. but the completed station looks like it would be claustrophobic-ally congested.. I would hate to try to remove a piece or even get in there to power down something... unless you no longer did that from a ship.

I always kind of liked the camping out feel to poses.

Avernus
Gallente
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.02.14 04:01:00 - [2211]
 

This here horse is so flogged it wears latex and a ball gag.

/flog

Erai
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.15 18:39:00 - [2212]
 

I'm guessing that this idea might be implemented around the time that we also get ambulation. It also seems to yell "tech 3 y'all" somehow.

(and woops, accidentally flogged a dead horse back to page one. Bad, bad Erai Embarassed )

Nemtar Nataal
Demonic Retribution
Posted - 2011.02.16 07:58:00 - [2213]
 

Originally by: Shin Dari
Well the modular pos concept might sound too difficult to CCP for them to implement. So I would like to present an alternative vision of what and how the new POS system should be, in the hope to get to situation moving forward.

...



I dont really agree with this statement, the modular pos is a concept that can be moulded to fit into the EVE sandbox.
The idea is to get a modular POS that looks like a small station in some way shape or form, hopefully with the added bonus of making POS management way more easy.

The POS as it is today is a extremely complicated structure, because CCP kept adding new responsibilities to it instead of inventing new structures. The direction of CCP have changed to what we have today where they usually implement new structures and workflows, thus a new POS concept would properly split up the responsibilities a POS have today and separate them from each other, it will make the structure less complicated.

Imo a POS should be all about providing the services of a station on a small scale, to facilitate the move to 00 of smaller entities. I dont think the modular concept should be just another way TO make POS management more easy for alliances. That would also go well with the name Personal Owned Station...

IdeaI could se a new system looking a bit like this.
ExclamationFirst of all keep the POS role as a strategic platform, for invasions and defence.
ExclamationUse the POS to provide services that facilitate industrial production, but remove some or all the industrial services directly from the POS.
ExclamationChange moon mining completely to use the PI system OMG alliance income nerf...
ArrowMove all the mining and reaction to the PI system.
ArrowThis will be more fair as it makes the values of a moon accessible on a larger scale, and it will require more players to run, which is more in line with the current work effort that PI requires.
ArrowAllow a POS to anchor a Customs Office out side the shield of the POS. The office will be available to personal, corp or alliance use depending on settings.
ArrowAlliance income should be moved to taxation of what ever is exported from the planet. This way more players can participate in the actual work, hopefully that will yield a larger volume of T2 materials all together.
This way alliance income will more correctly reflect how similar work and income would look IRL.
ArrowMoving the PI system to affect moons will also open up a wider range of options once (if ever) Dust514 hits.
ArrowHaving the Command Center out side the shield of the POS will also give a option for small gangs to achieve raiding goals at the POS's like its possible today at the Planets.
ExclamationThe factory, hangar, refining and refitting structures should still be kept at the POS, as modules that can be put together as this thread suggests. Hangar space should be added together to form one pool, same goes for ship storage of space to make life more easy. Also capacity should be removed completely from assembly arrays so you always have to anchor 1 corp hanger or use what ever space is available from the POS (something that should be added).

What i propose are all radical changes even to the original suggestion of this thread, but personally i like similar things to work the same way, so it would be nice if a POS worked like a small station moon industry worked like PI, makes transition more easy for players.
Most people in alliances will properly hate this but imo the POS is there to facilitate small corps access to 00 and not just a tool to help alliances.
Personally i love the idea of splitting up alliance income over more people, and make a alliance more dependable on the collective effort of its members...

Jokerface666
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.16 11:20:00 - [2214]
 

Every change to POSes wuld be great,

the biggest problem i see with implementing a modular POS is:

How to change the currently existing POSes?
Remove all Structures besides the Tower, so you have to anchor them again? uhm no!!!!
Just anchor them randomly... uhm no!!!

and so on....

Br,
Joker

Yilan Cheran
Posted - 2011.02.17 18:30:00 - [2215]
 

Originally by: Jokerface666
Every change to POSes wuld be great,

the biggest problem i see with implementing a modular POS is:

How to change the currently existing POSes?
Remove all Structures besides the Tower, so you have to anchor them again? uhm no!!!!
Just anchor them randomly... uhm no!!!

and so on....

Br,
Joker


If I were CCP, I'd retain the current POS structures as they are, and simply introduce the modular structures as Tech 2 or 3 additions. That way the transition will go smooth and gradually, and the players themselves will do most of the work Very Happy

Jokerface666
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.18 11:54:00 - [2216]
 

Originally by: Yilan Cheran
Originally by: Jokerface666
Every change to POSes wuld be great,

the biggest problem i see with implementing a modular POS is:

How to change the currently existing POSes?
Remove all Structures besides the Tower, so you have to anchor them again? uhm no!!!!
Just anchor them randomly... uhm no!!!

and so on....

Br,
Joker


If I were CCP, I'd retain the current POS structures as they are, and simply introduce the modular structures as Tech 2 or 3 additions. That way the transition will go smooth and gradually, and the players themselves will do most of the work Very Happy


Sounds good to me,
but what if you do not have enough money to buy 10 large faction towers? :-D
Couse noone would buy the old one lolz.
Br,
Joker

Jokerface666
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.18 13:13:00 - [2217]
 

Originally by: CCP Abathur
Bump! Cool

This thread has been seen and looked over several times by the Dev team. It's a very bold and interesting proposal. However any change like this would require a massive amount of development in both programming and artwork. It's not something that could happen overnight.

Having said that, we're well aware of the current state of starbase warfare and it's one of our top post-Trinity priorities for overhaul.


Well "we're well aware of the current state of starbase warfare and it's one of our top post-Trinity priorities for overhaul" wher's the overhaul? :-D

Br,
Joker

Esiel
Renegade Serenity
Posted - 2011.02.20 04:16:00 - [2218]
 

Edited by: Esiel on 20/02/2011 04:16:56
There are tons of ways to make the changes, many have been suggested before.

  • The simplest is leave the old ones the way they are. Require all new towers to be set up modularly.

  • Just do what you did with guns, automatically move them. Some will change the layout others won't care.

  • Have a grace period that will allow people time to make the change, any left over automatically do it. Lower or remove the delays of setup during the grace period


There are tons more. I prefer the last one with the lowered or removed delays.

If they are smart they would also do an interface change as well as a setup change

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2011.02.22 03:48:00 - [2219]
 

Edited by: Jinx Barker on 22/02/2011 03:48:36
Rescued from page 5.
This horse will never die!

Originally by: Paraphrased Winston Churchill

...we shall fight on the forums,
we shall fight in the private chats,
we shall fight in the blogs and in the game,
we shall fight in the CSM;
we shall never surrender....

(Yes I was little bored)

Anyway, come on CCP, new POS system please - I know there are a lot of plans for the game, please make this one of them.
MODULAR POS = WIN.

Syberbolt8
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.02.22 23:29:00 - [2220]
 

Originally by: Esiel
Edited by: Esiel on 20/02/2011 04:16:56
There are tons of ways to make the changes, many have been suggested before.

  • The simplest is leave the old ones the way they are. Require all new towers to be set up modularly.

  • Just do what you did with guns, automatically move them. Some will change the layout others won't care.

  • Have a grace period that will allow people time to make the change, any left over automatically do it. Lower or remove the delays of setup during the grace period


There are tons more. I prefer the last one with the lowered or removed delays.

If they are smart they would also do an interface change as well as a setup change



This has been suggested to death yet no one ever reads it, it is by far the best way to deal with old pos's

Like you said leave them there, leave them part of the game, remove the bpo's and change them for the new pos bpo's, put up npc buy orders for them and if people decide to keep them then so be it, if they dont then great, wont matter if the new pos's are written in fresh code, CCP doesn't want to play with the old code anyway.


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