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blankseplocked Merc's- scum of the universe, or valuable resource?
 
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Seleene
Minmatar
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.09.08 08:37:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Seleene on 08/09/2006 08:38:14
Originally by: Stamm
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
I wonder how many mercenery corporations out there make up fake contracts when they want to have an excuse to go after someone they haven't been hired to kill ?

I'd guess 95%, including the MC, the ones that pirate would actually be less likely to lie about something like that, and thus more "True Mercs" in my book than the ones that don't pirate. Razz


It's impossible to tell though, only the mercs themselves know.

Maybe when the CEOs retire from Eve they'll write their memoirs and drop a bombshell :P


Hmmmm.....

"Warden of the Asylum." by Seleene

"My Love of all things Green." by Neurotic Cat

"Good bye Politics, Hello Pimp Cane!" by Hans Roaming

"Who wants my job?" by Dol Amroth

"Who's #1, Mother****er?!" by Eyeshadow

"How I found God in the form of ISK." by Hardin

"Killing is easy... with a nice glass of wine." by Lowa

"Tales of a cross-dressing Merenary." by Parmizan

"Don't fear the Reaper... Fear me!" by Farjung

"The Life of a Media *****." by Leafo

"Dude, where's my Thorax?!" by Danks


Hell, I'd buy them all tbh. Very Happy

Trooper B99
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.09.08 08:40:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Trooper B99 on 08/09/2006 08:40:09

/me stalks Sel
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
"True Mercs" ? What a joke.

Merceneries who kill random people when not on assignment are no less Merceneries than you who do not.
As long as they honor their contracts and wishes of their Employers, they're no different.
Yes and no. One reason i tend to pidgeonhole merc groups myself is that I see certain ones more likely to be able to carry out contracts and be able to honour the wishes of their employer. If a merc is told to go kill X but end up taking their paid time killing Y, Z, Q, P, N, R and B as well as X are they doing the right thing by their employer? Likewise, what if they start ransoming ships instead of destroying them? Sure they're hurting them in pure iskwise terms, but what if they ransom a 200mil isk ship for 50mil isk, is that the right thing to do by their employer? Does the employer mind? Should the Mercenary do that? It changes.

Of course my personal pidgeonholed mercs have alot of crossover and its not to say they won't honour a contract, but one merc is not another in the eyes of the client, target and the eyes of the general populace of EVE.

Quote:
I wonder how many mercenery corporations out there make up fake contracts when they want to have an excuse to go after someone they haven't been hired to kill ?
I don't know tbh, but there are alot out there and sometimes their "we were hired by X person" doesn't stand up well under some casual investigation. Some newer merc corps might want to "make a splash" with a big contract. Some pirate group might want teh booty and try to get away with it under a veneer of "business".

As for the MC. . . nope, all of our contracts have been real and instigated by clientel whom have contacted us. Hell, I've had to deal with enough of them on a personal thank you very much. ^^

GoGo Yubari
Gallente
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2006.09.08 08:40:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
I'd guess 95%, including the MC


Though I can't dispute your statistic (even if 85% of all statistics are made up on the spot), you would be wrong.

Not that I think there is anything wrong with an essentially pirate force being hired as mercenaries. Yet, there is also something to be said for having a code of conduct that distinguishes you from the others. On the utilitarian level, it allows you to keep a larger list of potential clients. On another level, it speaks of dedication and discipline. Certainly it won't matter to some, but it will to others.

Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.08 10:10:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Crovan

Setting mercs who have just finished a contract on you to negative is silly, but understandable. Why close the door to a group with the potential to help you out in the future?


This only works if they plan on using Merc Corps in the future.

It also assumes that there is a limited supply of mercs - which to be honest there isn't (albeit the quality is variable).

It shouldn't be that difficult to find an alternative crew which isn't on the KOS list.

The main reason that more people dont make merc corps KOS after being attacked by them is because they are afraid of the consequences - which is to some extent due to the impression of invincibility that many merc corps have built around themselves and the fact that many merc targets are fat with industrialists who want the wars over asap so they can get back to hauling or whatever its is they do.

For PvP oriented corps/alliances keeping old enemies (including mercs) on KOS isn't necessarily an irrational thing. Indeed it is very rational Wink



welsh wizard
Caldari
0utbreak
KrautbreaK
Posted - 2006.09.08 12:01:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: welsh wizard on 08/09/2006 12:01:35
We do it for free. Razz

edit: Well at least we used to.

Karash Amerius
Amarr
Sutoka
Posted - 2006.09.08 15:53:00 - [96]
 

Small, professional mercenary corporations are indeed a rare breed. The downtimes between contracts usually suck out all but the most committed members to piracy or other alliance corporations. Being a true "merc" in Eve is a very hard life if you are committed to the path, and do not pirate in your off time.

I agree that most "mercs" are simply pirates looking for more respectability. This is a great playstyle and I have no issues at all with it, but I really wish they would use the term "Brigands" or "Privateers"...something along those lines.

Small merc corps can do a healthy business in Empire space! There are a lot of ransoming war dec pirates out there...but they almost always run from a straight up fight (sad but true). I am honestly glad that the MC prices are so high...it makes a good market for us smaller merc corps.

Agent Kenshin
Caldari
Bath and Body Works
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2006.09.08 16:54:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Karash Amerius
I am honestly glad that the MC prices are so high...it makes a good market for us smaller merc corps.


I love this quote. Very Happy

Lowa
Gallente
North Star Networks
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2006.09.08 18:42:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Karash Amerius
I am honestly glad that the MC prices are so high...

Quality costs.


/Lowa

Fikia
Caldari
Scarlet Blades
Posted - 2006.09.09 19:00:00 - [99]
 

Mercenary corporations - Can you not just define them as being corporations that take on contracts to do X? Where X could be kill Y ships, Z pods, just stop the industry side of a target or even have a corp implode?

Due to how EvE is, the only way to have a "true merc corp" is if the members enjoy pvp AND enjoy doing one of the following: Mining, Missions, Trading, other form of random non-pvp isk making. People get bored between contracts. People leave between contracts. If people are bored, they'll turn to other things between contracts.. hence you get some merc corps seem like pirates since they go out and pvp. Although, I don't think we have that problem. Since most don't like us anyway, our target for "random" pvp is somewhat big.

But enough of that talk. Lets get down to the question of scum or Valuable resource...

Those two words are subjective. Who is to say that the Guiding Hand is scum? Is it just because we accept ANY type of contract, including the "real" destruction of corps, and fulfill said contracts? Then again, you may see us as scum since there's no one else to blame unless we give up our clients - but you know that's not going to happen. A contract is a contract.

Mercenary corps are a resource for other corporations. They provide numbers to your fleets. They provide annoyances/hinderances for your enemies.

So what is the Guiding Hand Social Club? We are a mercenary corporation. We accept any contract no matter the demands and fine print in the contract. Downfall is, we are slightly more expensive than other mercenary corporations due to our willingness to fulfill any demands.

Are we scum? Only if you want to see us that way. We are honorable pod pilots that uphold to our contracts to our best ability. We get our job done without complaints.

Mitchman
Caldari
Omniscient Order
Posted - 2006.09.22 14:21:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Draximus Cane

We were not the first Mercs (although I was in Merc frigs from the fiorst week), but I believe we were the first "true" mercs as others before were genenerly not nuetrul and or pirated


"true" mercs? What is that? CoC, my former corp and which members constitute much of the core of Omniscient Order, were on a longterm hire (paid hire) from the 2nd week of retail, fighting in Fountain, Venal and elsewhere for 2 (at that time) relatively powerful corporations. Seeing how long it's been since then, it's no big secret anymore.

Hellspawn01
Amarr
The Fourth Empire
Retribution.
Posted - 2006.09.22 15:52:00 - [101]
 

Jokers, nuff said. Pirates and mercs since release.

Idaeus
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.09.22 16:10:00 - [102]
 

I like mercenary work, and mercenaries in general. I've done the merc things in other games, but in EVE I'm not sure I could pull it off.

Mainly it has to do with logistics. I understand the need of a logistic backend, and can plan it out well, but I lack the patience the deal with process.

But mercs are a resource. They have been a resource since the Egyptians, and possibly before them.

Pepperami
Minmatar
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2006.09.22 16:12:00 - [103]
 

There is absolutely no problem whatsoever about being paid to war dec and put pressure on a group of people. In that respect mercs are valuable to eve.

I think there is a problem with the "culture" of merc's quality being decided by a ratio which actually shows nothing, and the whole community would do better by saying "so what did you actually achieve?"

It is amusing that eddz and shin clash heads in this thread when they are very very similer in both their publicity and tactics - tell everyone you're uber, try to remove loses and gank where you can. Entities like MC and the old CONIN(current conin and revelations inc included? I don't know what's happening there..) are much more threatening - they will bring fleets and they will whipe out fleets rather than just settling for the odd battleship gank. They're more threatening, but they're also more fun and more effective (altho the whole nature of merc'ing means almost all "merc" entities tend to shy away from conflicts where victory isn't certain, but that's an eve problem in general)

Khavi Vetali
Gallente
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2006.09.22 16:15:00 - [104]
 

Edited by: Khavi Vetali on 22/09/2006 19:58:13
deleted 'cause I'm trying to be civil.

Hibi Researcher2
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2006.09.22 16:18:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: Hibi Researcher2 on 22/09/2006 16:19:44
mercs that do as they are told define what it is to be a good mercenary.

its the ones that.... get creative with their orders that shame the reputation

Neue Regel
Minmatar
Deadly Metal Incorporation
Namtz'aar k'in
Posted - 2006.09.22 19:29:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Cheechako
It's just business


So is kidnapping children for ransom. Neither of which are admirable Evil or Very Mad

Ulric Denrai
Amarr
Ceptacemia
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2006.09.23 00:55:00 - [107]
 



Think we don`t need big lines ,,mercs are scum.

EElak
Amarr
The Corporation
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2006.09.25 08:50:00 - [108]
 

There are no way to verify if a contract is authentic, you will never know if they are there just for fun or have an authentic contract if the client choose to be anonymous.

In my experience internal or fake-contract is a reality and a good way to keep tens or hundreds of PVP hungry pilots at bay when there are no interesting offers.

I don't think Tyrrax guess of 95% including the MC have done a "fake"-contract are that far off the truth.

If there were anything like good and evil in EVE and not this big grey area we have now, I would put mercenaries at evil together with pirates. But just slightly above them because they can be a valuable asset.

/EElak

Mi Lai
Amarr
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.25 11:47:00 - [109]
 

I really wonder how any 'true merc' (ie. one that doesnt pirate on the sideline) deals with the boredom. Ever since I started pirating, I really like the hunt, and nearly warped my hauler alt to a belt once when I saw a potential customer.

On another note: what's the deal about people mentioning the kill-death ratio's so much? Should I ever be a client, I wouldnt give a toss about K/D ratios, as long as they get the job done. As soon as my ISKies go from my wallet, it's the Merc's business to deal with the overhead Very Happy.

On another note, could a merc give a sample rate for a contract? Seeing what equipment some mercs fly around, I really wonder wether the typical contract fee covers the costs of achieving your contract goals. In other words: can you make a living out of your contracts only, or due you have to moonlight as a NPC'er / Miner / T2 BPO holder or whatever?


KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.25 12:00:00 - [110]
 

Edited by: KIAEddZ on 25/09/2006 12:01:26
Merc corps CANNOT make a living by contract payments alone. (maybe small mickey mouse ones can, but nayone with a decent membership is included in this statement)

The contracts are merely a role for the corp to fulfill together.

Many of the goals recently achived by the largest entities in the game, would not have been possible without Mercenaries and what we (the true mercs) bring to the table.

Just as an example, I virtually always have mor ein my personal wallet than the corp has in its. As do most of KIA directorship, and NO money is skimmed off the top from corp earnt isk, we all have our own ways of supporting our life style, the corp re invests its isk in our cap ship program.

ScoRpS
Minmatar
0utbreak
Outbreak.
Posted - 2006.09.25 12:03:00 - [111]
 

I quite like "true mercs" they add an interesting facet to eve and a good merc group are worth their weight in gold. They most definatley are a valuable asset to eve as a tool to even the odds for ppl with more isk then milliatry might or expertise at their disposal.

It is very hard to be a good merc group as it takes alot of planning and patience and not all merc groups are up to this level of organisation but for the ones that are, you have my respect.

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2006.09.25 12:22:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Altai Saker
What's better than being a contract killer? Not much.

Also I'd like to point at that eve is the only mmo that this profession exists and is prosperous... So awesome.


well getting paid for PvP isnt such a bad thing.
When you like to pvp this is enjoying..

Larsson7
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.09.25 12:27:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Mi Lai
I really wonder how any 'true merc' (ie. one that doesnt pirate on the sideline) deals with the boredom. Ever since I started pirating, I really like the hunt, and nearly warped my hauler alt to a belt once when I saw a potential customer.

On another note: what's the deal about people mentioning the kill-death ratio's so much? Should I ever be a client, I wouldnt give a toss about K/D ratios, as long as they get the job done. As soon as my ISKies go from my wallet, it's the Merc's business to deal with the overhead Very Happy.

On another note, could a merc give a sample rate for a contract? Seeing what equipment some mercs fly around, I really wonder wether the typical contract fee covers the costs of achieving your contract goals. In other words: can you make a living out of your contracts only, or due you have to moonlight as a NPC'er / Miner / T2 BPO holder or whatever?




I will try and answer some of those from an MC perspective. Please bear in mind that these are my opinions and do not reflect on the entire Alliance :)

As a "True Merc" Alliance we obviously have periods of downtime between contracts. Since establishing our own 0.0 home we use this time for our own Constellation development and isk making for members. Others remain in Empire and run Agents and a few decide to go Anti Pirate in well known pirate systems. Absolutely nobody in MC decides to be a pirate during off contract times.

Mercs tend to live a lot by their killboard results. Obviously our job is to satisfy the Client to the best of our ability. Sometimes that means locking down systems in order for our Client to operate. At other times its POS takedown. Both of these types of contract do not necessarily mean we will have a lot of kills, however, as long as we meet our Clients requirements, then it is a job well done.

As for cost? The MC are not cheap. There is no reason why we should be cheap :)
Our results on contract speak for themselves time and time again. MC Contract prices will depend on what the Client desires. Example a 0.0 contract will be X while a 0.0 contract with POS takedown will be x + y (where y = fuel costs)

Interested parties can get a quote by visiting http://www.mercenarycoalition.com/main/contracts.asp and we will be happy to discuss rates further ;)

Mi Lai
Amarr
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.25 12:54:00 - [114]
 

Thanks for the answers Kia and Lars.

A bit disappointed those MC Vindicators visiting our system on their pirate hunts arent fully funded by Contracts though, otherwise I would have found another excellent career in EVE Laughing.

Thanks for your offer on getting a quote, but as I'm pretty sure it's out of my league atm, I wouldnt want to bother you with calculations unnecesarily. I was just hoping you might divulge some details on past contracts to get an indication on what the money is. It's seems a winner to me to get paid ISK to PVP, instead of needing to earn ISK to PVP.

On a slightly unrelated note: I'm seriously impressed by the logistics some Mercs have in place. Obviously not having sec related travel restrictions helps, but still, getting a whole fleet assembled and ready in what seems to be about a few days notice impresses me.


Larsson7
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.09.25 13:02:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Mi Lai
Thanks for the answers Kia and Lars.

A bit disappointed those MC Vindicators visiting our system on their pirate hunts arent fully funded by Contracts though, otherwise I would have found another excellent career in EVE Laughing.

Thanks for your offer on getting a quote, but as I'm pretty sure it's out of my league atm, I wouldnt want to bother you with calculations unnecesarily. I was just hoping you might divulge some details on past contracts to get an indication on what the money is. It's seems a winner to me to get paid ISK to PVP, instead of needing to earn ISK to PVP.

On a slightly unrelated note: I'm seriously impressed by the logistics some Mercs have in place. Obviously not having sec related travel restrictions helps, but still, getting a whole fleet assembled and ready in what seems to be about a few days notice impresses me.




Like anything in life - If the contract is juicy and really piques our interest - you find the price is not necessarily the most improtant factor.

Also note that all the member corps of the MC can take individual contracts so you could hire just CONIN, for example.

As for logistics - well that is one of the greatest strengths of the MC. I have seen the entire Alliance deploy in 24 hours with full Corp hangars moved 30+ jumps. The commitment of the MC membership to please our Clients is unmatched Very Happy

KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2006.09.25 13:49:00 - [116]
 

KIA are a Merc Corp whereas MC are a Merc Coalition.

But KIA mirror MC (or MC mirror KIA depending on who ya believe ;) xx Sel) in a lot of ways.

KIA has a CAP ship fleet most Corporatios are put to shame by. We have currently 8 Carriers and 6 Dreads, very soon (next week) to be 9 and 8 respectively. This Capital Ship fleet is used to great effect in our contracts. We also have PvP hungry pilots, and we can move our entire operation to any system anywhere in 24 hours, that includes all our ships and logistics for the op (ammo etc).

Our downtimes are spent earning Isk, and we are fourtunate to be virtually always in a position to roll onto another contract if we dont need to a Isk making downtime.

My corp lives and breathes PvP, and our empoyer gets exactly what he pays for 100% of our time. As such generally it keeps the masses ahppy, and if they dont like the Merc life, then the door is always open, no grudges held :P

Dracolich
Caldari
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
Posted - 2006.09.27 00:03:00 - [117]
 

Jest version:

Merc life for me is pretty much like doing missions. Some tosser tells me to go somewhere, do something; either kill, rescue some damsel in distress or some courier mission. I portray all wartargets as NPCs, until time of contract is over. Then they cease to exist as they get deleted from buddylist.

Real version:

Merc life for me is of cause about PVP, but instead of just choosing random targets, I(we) help someone in distress. Most importantly I feel that merc life forges a very strong bond to your corp, be cause you depend upon one another to succeed. In time of contract - there isn't some tosser sitting 25 jumps away doing his own thing(either because he is an idiot or to make iskies to afford a ship) - while his merc buddies are fighting their hearts out. I bet most pvp corps are like that tho, but at least its not about politics, territory, being cruel or even isk. At least thats how I view it. Furthermore swedes are very friendly and bake great kladdkaka - some even drink alot. Last note working with NSN and MC as such has taught me what unity is all about - when on contract the whole alliance turns into one corp - this amazes me still(since I haven't seen that from being in any other alliance or one I have fought).

merc999
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.10.04 20:55:00 - [118]
 

Some interesting points made, As the Op my thoughts on the profession are..

Although a relative Noob, I joined a newly formed Merc corp a few months ago, made up of pilots from my old local alliance this corps had many of the PvP pilots i had flown with as a noob , they taught me a lot, but their is one major difference than being in a PvP corp/Alliance and a merc corps, the guys now will drop everything to rush to your side if a target appears or you are in trouble, becuase of the large amount of sitting, station camping, system lockdowns etc TS conversations are far more in depth, and fun, and corp mates become real life friends, TBSV recently had an Ad hoc , what the hell lets meet up and have a drink session, which for some members turned into a week visit to the UK from Scandinavia, and for the rest a long weekend.

Like many Merc corps TBSV rarely pays its members for their time on contracts (although on particularly boring jobs a payment might be made), instead members get a bonus on skills learned. certain skills the corps maybe short of , if a member trains that skill then a lump sum is paid, this particularly helps the younger players.

When I was pirating I loved the game, but I get far more enjoyment flying on contracts with a bunch of freinds than I ever did solo pirating.

So, in some of your minds I may be scum of the earth, but I'm having fun, and after all thats what we are all here for Laughing


Rod Blaine
Gallente
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.10.04 21:22:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: Rod Blaine on 04/10/2006 21:29:21
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 04/10/2006 21:27:10

I think mercs are fluffy and sweet tbh, except KIA, they are not fluffy, but a tad sweaty. Still sweet tho.

I wonder, now that mercing is like hot and all that, would there be a market for forum-mercenaries ? I tried selling advertising space in my sig but that didn't really work Crying or Very sad


Anyway, isn't scum loveable anyway. Just look at how popular we are.


edit: yes I have absolutely nothign to add to this topic actually. I do approve of the merc profession tho, in general. It seems to me however that there's quite alot of wannabees in that line of work these days.

edit2: why not do a recognition thread for merc corps Seleene ? See what kind of image the individual merc corps have built by their actions ..

Mehran Salenahi
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2006.10.04 21:46:00 - [120]
 

Mercenary, at least in our case, is really just a fancy term for "terrorist for hire." Also happens to be one of the oldest professions(right up there with prostitutes, go figure. Murder and sex, the foundation of human history). Are we scum? Sure if you want to look at it that way. Some consider us to be un-desireable types simply because of what we do. Which is harm people for money. We're simply soldiers who's loyalty resides with who is paying us at the time.

And while some people think of us as scum, we(merc corps) can be a tremendous asset.


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