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Maldon Perriera
Posted - 2006.08.28 03:15:00 - [1]
 

Ok newish player here (been around a month or so) and it seems that missles are the best weapons around. Been using rails but even when someone when less skill points attacks me with missles I end up not standing a chance. Am I just unskilled or are missles the strongest weapons in the game? Should I continue studying up on rails or should I move to missles?

Mik Nostrebor
Minmatar
Ex Coelis
Posted - 2006.08.28 03:27:00 - [2]
 

Missiles are easier to skill in initially than other weapons and their main advantage is that they always hit. On the other hand, a problem with them is that at longer ranges (which become the norm as your ships are bigger) they take longer to start doing bue to the flight time. All the guns start doing damage right away.

Another thing is that missiles always do the same damage. There is no such thing as a 'wrecking hit' with a missile. With good gunnery skills, the chances of doing wrecking hits increases which means that the damage per second (DPS) ends up being higher with guns.

As in anything in this game there are trade offs and advantages with every weapon style. With missiles you get the same damage and range with 100% chance to hit all the time. You can load any type of damage (therm, em, kinetic, explosive) without any penalties. With guns they are better with certain damage types and start taking a hit in range when higher damage or difference damage type loadings are used. For example phased plasma (therm) autocannnon ammo has a significant range penalty applied.

If you want your character to quickly get up to speed damage wise then missiles are the way to go. If you want to be the biggest damage dealer after skills, weapn and ammo choice and excellent ship fitting choice then guns are the way to go.

Mik

Ricky Starwalker
Posted - 2006.08.28 03:57:00 - [3]
 

Also a new player. So how does one defend oneself against missiles? Point-defense missiles? Or just better shields and armor?

Also, I'm not sure *my* missiles "always" hit! I had a level 1 mission against some drones, and I couldn't hit those things with anything -- missiles, guns, lasers. Maybe I was missing something.

Lurtz
Caldari
Gunrunners and Gamblers
Posted - 2006.08.28 04:06:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Mik Nostrebor
Missiles are easier to skill in initially than other weapons and their main advantage is that they always hit. On the other hand, a problem with them is that at longer ranges (which become the norm as your ships are bigger) they take longer to start doing bue to the flight time. All the guns start doing damage right away.



Correct

Originally by: Mik Nostrebor
Another thing is that missiles always do the same damage. There is no such thing as a 'wrecking hit' with a missile. With good gunnery skills, the chances of doing wrecking hits increases which means that the damage per second (DPS) ends up being higher with guns.



While damage will go up with skills and max gun damage becomes higher than max missles damage, I would really like to know what skill increases the chance of getting wrecking hits?

Originally by: Mik Nostrebor
As in anything in this game there are trade offs and advantages with every weapon style. With missiles you get the same damage and range with 100% chance to hit all the time. You can load any type of damage (therm, em, kinetic, explosive) without any penalties. With guns they are better with certain damage types and start taking a hit in range when higher damage or difference damage type loadings are used. For example phased plasma (therm) autocannnon ammo has a significant range penalty applied.



true

Originally by: Mik Nostrebor
If you want your character to quickly get up to speed damage wise then missiles are the way to go. If you want to be the biggest damage dealer after skills, weapn and ammo choice and excellent ship fitting choice then guns are the way to go.



Amen

Arrim
Posted - 2006.08.28 04:15:00 - [5]
 

Ricky, are you sure the target was within range of your missiles? The normal range for rockes its 4.5KM and for missiles its 18.75KM. Your ship will still shoot missiles at the target even though its out of range so just make sure its close enought before you fire. And yes, if you want to defend against missiles use defender missiles.

Mik Nostrebor
Minmatar
Ex Coelis
Posted - 2006.08.28 04:19:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Mik Nostrebor on 28/08/2006 04:20:03
Originally by: Ricky Starwalker
Also a new player. So how does one defend oneself against missiles? Point-defense missiles? Or just better shields and armor?

Also, I'm not sure *my* missiles "always" hit! I had a level 1 mission against some drones, and I couldn't hit those things with anything -- missiles, guns, lasers. Maybe I was missing something.


Defence? Well there is the Defender missile but I don't find them very effective so don't use them. Better shields/armour and higher resistences are the way to go. Remember one of the single best defences in Eve is to blow up the other ship to stop it hitting you.

Missiles always hit. Always...except if you are out of range of something or it is flying faster than your missile. I haven't found anything that has outrun my missiles yet.

And Lurtz, I believe that if your tracking is really good vs the target's transversal velocity then your percentage chance of a wrecking hit increases.

M

Sandeep
Posted - 2006.08.28 05:29:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Mik Nostrebor
Remember one of the single best defences in Eve is to blow up the other ship to stop it hitting you.


/signed

To defend against NPC fired missiles, just harden your shield or armor. Their damage isn't great enough to break a ship that is designed to handle such NPC.


Ydyp Ieva
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2006.08.28 06:20:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Mik Nostrebor
Edited by: Mik Nostrebor on 28/08/2006 04:20:03
Originally by: Ricky Starwalker
Also a new player. So how does one defend oneself against missiles? Point-defense missiles? Or just better shields and armor?


Defence? Well there is the Defender missile but I don't find them very effective so don't use them. Better shields/armour and higher resistences are the way to go. Remember one of the single best defences in Eve is to blow up the other ship to stop it hitting you.

Missiles always hit. Always...except if you are out of range of something or it is flying faster than your missile. I haven't found anything that has outrun my missiles yet.

Outrunning a missile isn't possible any more, at least not after the dual mwd fittings and the increase in missile speed. But what still is possible to outrun the expolosion. But for that I would like to point to the Player Guides. And more specific to the missile one. You will find that moving fast and keeping your signature radius small will decrease damage of missiles pretty much.

Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2006.08.28 14:37:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Ydyp Ieva
Originally by: Mik Nostrebor
Edited by: Mik Nostrebor on 28/08/2006 04:20:03
Originally by: Ricky Starwalker
Also a new player. So how does one defend oneself against missiles? Point-defense missiles? Or just better shields and armor?


Defence? Well there is the Defender missile but I don't find them very effective so don't use them. Better shields/armour and higher resistences are the way to go. Remember one of the single best defences in Eve is to blow up the other ship to stop it hitting you.

Missiles always hit. Always...except if you are out of range of something or it is flying faster than your missile. I haven't found anything that has outrun my missiles yet.

Outrunning a missile isn't possible any more, at least not after the dual mwd fittings and the increase in missile speed. But what still is possible to outrun the expolosion. But for that I would like to point to the Player Guides. And more specific to the missile one. You will find that moving fast and keeping your signature radius small will decrease damage of missiles pretty much.


Mark my words, you can outrun a missile - thing is you need an interceptor to get up to those speed, but even with noobish skills you can generally outrun light missiles (bit on the close side however); heavies and larger have no chance of hitting you unless you fly right into them or are in a bad orbit. Even still, high speed and low sig radius are your best friends Cool.

Kelron Queldine
Beyond Divinity Inc
Excuses.
Posted - 2006.08.28 14:46:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Lurtz

Originally by: Mik Nostrebor
Another thing is that missiles always do the same damage. There is no such thing as a 'wrecking hit' with a missile. With good gunnery skills, the chances of doing wrecking hits increases which means that the damage per second (DPS) ends up being higher with guns.



While damage will go up with skills and max gun damage becomes higher than max missles damage, I would really like to know what skill increases the chance of getting wrecking hits?



There's skills that increase your chance to hit, such as motion prediction and sharpshooter. As you'll then be hitting more, it follows that you'll get more wrecking hits.

Gadfly Hawke
Posted - 2006.08.28 14:52:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Mik Nostrebor

Another thing is that missiles always do the same damage.

Not true. Missile damage can vary considerably, depending on relative ship velocities (speed and direction). Damage can be increased with skills that increase the base damage, increase the probability of a damaging hit, and increase the explosion speed.


Kelron Queldine
Beyond Divinity Inc
Excuses.
Posted - 2006.08.28 15:21:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Gadfly Hawke
Originally by: Mik Nostrebor

Another thing is that missiles always do the same damage.

Not true. Missile damage can vary considerably, depending on relative ship velocities (speed and direction). Damage can be increased with skills that increase the base damage, increase the probability of a damaging hit, and increase the explosion speed.




I think what he meant was that if you park a missile ship and a turret ship up next to each other and fire, the missiles willalways do the same damage while the turret's damage would vary. Obviously missile damage varies depending on the resistances and size of the target, player skills, etc.

BREECE SUNDARES
Posted - 2006.08.28 18:23:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: BREECE SUNDARES on 28/08/2006 18:26:50
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Originally by: Ydyp Ieva
Originally by: Mik Nostrebor
Edited by: Mik Nostrebor on 28/08/2006 04:20:03
Originally by: Ricky Starwalker
Also a new player. So how does one defend oneself against missiles? Point-defense missiles? Or just better shields and armor?


Defence? Well there is the Defender missile but I don't find them very effective so don't use them. Better shields/armour and higher resistences are the way to go. Remember one of the single best defences in Eve is to blow up the other ship to stop it hitting you.

Missiles always hit. Always...except if you are out of range of something or it is flying faster than your missile. I haven't found anything that has outrun my missiles yet.

Outrunning a missile isn't possible any more, at least not after the dual mwd fittings and the increase in missile speed. But what still is possible to outrun the expolosion. But for that I would like to point to the Player Guides. And more specific to the missile one. You will find that moving fast and keeping your signature radius small will decrease damage of missiles pretty much.


Mark my words, you can outrun a missile - thing is you need an interceptor to get up to those speed, but even with noobish skills you can generally outrun light missiles (bit on the close side however); heavies and larger have no chance of hitting you unless you fly right into them or are in a bad orbit. Even still, high speed and low sig radius are your best friends Cool.


yeah but arent those speeds only until your capacitor drains? im assuming in my noobishness that you mean using a microwarp drive but they suck up a ton of capacitior. even a crow without microwarp is what? 5-700 m/s? is that fast enough to run and not get hit without using a MWD and with enough skill and fittings does capacitor ever completely drain on a crow?

if i train up damage,velocity, missle speed, and signature radius with my heavies would i be capable of hanging back at 50-60km and picking you off eventually by cutting your orbit and just lucky shots if i use a MWD as well and can keep safe range? my caracal can hit 1200m/s is that fast enough or is it just way to unlikelly to win this fight even with high skill set?

Spyder John
Minmatar
3rd Millennium Group
Intergalactic Brotherhood
Posted - 2006.08.28 18:59:00 - [14]
 

what speeds can interceptors reach ?

Vasiliyan
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.08.29 00:47:00 - [15]
 

Interceptors with MWD typically travel over 3km/sec, and 5km/sec is reachable with some investment.

Missile damage isn't affected by relative speed, nor direction, only the absolute speed of the target and its signature radius.

I've seen an AWAR video of a Typhoon orbiting at 3km/sec being hit for 0 damage by torpedoes. It had no tank mods fitted and relied on its insane speed.

The critical disadvantage of missiles is flight time. Only with a gunboat can you instantly pop people from hundreds of km away. Also, most of the close range guns do more damage than missiles at comparable skill levels.

Lurtz
Caldari
Gunrunners and Gamblers
Posted - 2006.08.29 02:25:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Kelron Queldine
Originally by: Lurtz

Originally by: Mik Nostrebor
Another thing is that missiles always do the same damage. There is no such thing as a 'wrecking hit' with a missile. With good gunnery skills, the chances of doing wrecking hits increases which means that the damage per second (DPS) ends up being higher with guns.



While damage will go up with skills and max gun damage becomes higher than max missles damage, I would really like to know what skill increases the chance of getting wrecking hits?



There's skills that increase your chance to hit, such as motion prediction and sharpshooter. As you'll then be hitting more, it follows that you'll get more wrecking hits.


Very well, but there is no skill that makes a hit more likely to be a wrecking shot was my point.

Ydyp Ieva
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2006.08.29 06:38:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Mark my words, you can outrun a missile - thing is you need an interceptor to get up to those speed, but even with noobish skills you can generally outrun light missiles (bit on the close side however); heavies and larger have no chance of hitting you unless you fly right into them or are in a bad orbit. Even still, high speed and low sig radius are your best friends Cool.

You got a factional MWD that I can fit on my crow Twisted Evil
Only one skill to get the maximum speed out of my ships, and yes I've got almost a full rogue implant set, those +3% base speed +3% speed on AB/MWD are nice.


 

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