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Magnum III
Journey On Squad
Posted - 2006.08.21 21:04:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Magnum III on 22/08/2006 08:11:28
This NEW missions stuff is great news IMO, thank you so much for the fun and more interesting missions in the future. :)

It might even be more fun to do missions in groups just for the fun of it, I know more interesting would be good for groups.

I wonder if we can get some missions that reward an entire "gang" when completed?

Lurtz
Caldari
Gunrunners and Gamblers
Posted - 2006.08.21 21:39:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Lurtz on 21/08/2006 21:42:31
Originally by: Diss Ore
When one says that almost all courier missions are gone, which of the following does this mean:
A) The agents that gave mostly courier will give the few that are left over and over
B) The agents that gave mostly courier will now give almost all combat
C) The agents that gave mostly courier have gone on vacation

They are all bad, but B and C are particularly bad, as they are basically telling a group of players to stop playing until Kali comes out, or they can reskill to the point they can solo level 4 combat missions. Why not leave courier stuff around until you've got something to replace it with? This is on par with removing Warp Scramblers from the game while you rebalance some ship design.



anecdotal evidence playing on Sisi with a mining agent has shown so far 6 combat missions offered in a row. I'll be back on to refuse and get another when the timer elapses again... (I know it's test server, but I like my 10.0 standing)


that'd be answer B by the way....

the new client also looks slower to me, activating guns and the icon takes a couple seconds to appear next to locked target, and moving items from cans to cargo or cargo to hanger causes pauses.... so far I am not impressed.

Diss Ore
Posted - 2006.08.21 21:43:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Diss Ore on 21/08/2006 21:43:51
Originally by: Magnum III

How about the agents that gave courior are now giving better more interesting missions I would hope all together?


This appears to be the Kali plan, but they made it pretty clear that there are NO new missions replacing the courier missions they have taken out yet, leaving a big gaping hole that so far as I can see looks like A B or C. From the other thread where someone posted their testing on Sisi, it appears that it is B, and that the courier agent track has been essentially removed.

Edit: and it looks like some testing posted here while I was typing the above- thanks for checking this out.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2006.08.21 21:45:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Escalator
Originally by: Diss Ore
When one says that almost all courier missions are gone, which of the following does this mean:
A) The agents that gave mostly courier will give the few that are left over and over
B) The agents that gave mostly courier will now give almost all combat
C) The agents that gave mostly courier have gone on vacation

They are all bad, but B and C are particularly bad, as they are basically telling a group of players to stop playing until Kali comes out, or they can reskill to the point they can solo level 4 combat missions. Why not leave courier stuff around until you've got something to replace it with? This is on par with removing Warp Scramblers from the game while you rebalance some ship design.


On Sisi at least, my Manufacturing agent that gave soley courier missions is now giving solely kill missions (out of the 5 of so missions I asked for anyway).
That is not good. Not good at all.

Please Oveur this needs to be addressed. Saying 'some future content patch' is not good enough. Surely your own statistics can tell you that some people only fly courier missions. What do you expect those people to do until courier missions come back? Did anyone at CCP give any thought to it at all?

You know what this makes me think? Not enough people run those missions and of course there's no combat so you just dropped them. That's a really nice attitude you seem to displaying to some of the player base. I hope that there is some other reason why Sisi is throwing up combat missions for courier agents but if not:Shame on CCP this time.

Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2006.08.21 21:49:00 - [65]
 

Thank you for the clarification on courier missions Oveur.

But how exactly does one make courier missions more "interesting"? like add combat encounters between gates, or ambushes at gates? I sure hope not, although ramming a load of frig rats to death with a providence would be pretty fun.

Or do you mean "interesting" as in more multi-part missions with more engrossing story? Some nice multi-parters with plotlines as good as angel strike would be wonderful.

Maldon Perriera
Posted - 2006.08.21 21:52:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Andrue

Please Oveur this needs to be addressed. Saying 'some future content patch' is not good enough. Surely your own statistics can tell you that some people only fly courier missions. What do you expect those people to do until courier missions come back? Did anyone at CCP give any thought to it at all?



Probably because they thought most of the people running them were running them AFK which is most likly true. As such I for one applaud this move. I've always thought adding some NPC pirates that would spawn when a courier mission is taken would be a simple way to make them more interesting. You can choose to kill the pirates or just run away since the goal is to make the cargo run. I don't see this as making them combat missions just more interesting would only be a combat mission if you had to kill the pirates.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2006.08.21 22:22:00 - [67]
 

I agree with the above poster. Having some pirates spawn along the courier route would make courier missions worth taking. Plus it would stop people from AFK'ing it. I mean, seriously, it seems silly for an agent to give someone 100k to move 10 m/3 worth of stuff from one station to another station a bunch of jumps away. A trained monkey could do that mission for them for a lot less ISK than that! Any time a trained monkey could do the mission I think the player should get paid "trained monkey" wages. Either that, or missions like that should no longer be in the game (which seems to be what you are doing). So, I applaud that change. And as far as the Win 98/SE/ME thing goes?
GREAT! I'd like to be playing a game that uses new technology, not a game that can still be played on some archaic lump of a computer.

Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2006.08.21 22:32:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Maldon Perriera
Originally by: Andrue

Please Oveur this needs to be addressed. Saying 'some future content patch' is not good enough. Surely your own statistics can tell you that some people only fly courier missions. What do you expect those people to do until courier missions come back? Did anyone at CCP give any thought to it at all?



Probably because they thought most of the people running them were running them AFK which is most likly true. As such I for one applaud this move. I've always thought adding some NPC pirates that would spawn when a courier mission is taken would be a simple way to make them more interesting. You can choose to kill the pirates or just run away since the goal is to make the cargo run. I don't see this as making them combat missions just more interesting would only be a combat mission if you had to kill the pirates.

What? no! bad!
If the rat spawn got proportionally bigger in relation to the level of mission, you could bet that there would be scrambler frigs in the lvl 4 variants. and if these encounters took place in the middle of warp corridors then there would be no escape at all for the freighter/indy pilot. and "group up" is NOT an acceptable answer to this.
Besides, if they do this I can guarantee you that people will accept the mission on one character, and move the actual cargo on the other.

Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2006.08.21 22:50:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 21/08/2006 22:50:37
Just a quick post to say nice job...

1m lines is not a little project, it's a OMGWTFBBQ big one... As a noob and relative slow programmer in mainframes, I can only type something like 1k a day :p

Great work, I can see even without Kali 1 that CCP take care of us. You'll hold my credit card number for long ;)

Apertotes
Posted - 2006.08.21 22:55:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: kieron
Originally by: FactorzGT
or if you don't want to integrate with the website ... allow us to queue 1 skill when the current skill completes ... skill 1 completes training - the queued skill enters training ... then i can just change or adjust when i get home ... i think many people would like that - quote and stamp this if you agree

No need to stamp 'Agreed' on anything, a form of a skill queue is on The Drawing Board. We've got some things to work out first, but it is on the list.



may i ask why after so many months of quoting a famous dev answer saying there will never ever be any sort of skill queue or web skill changing, noW, finally, there is a kind of skill queue on the Drawing Board?

ps: i am really glad this feature is getting implemented, i am just curius as to what made CCP change its strong position. i mean, it was kind of proverbial, every 2 or 3 days there was a new thread on the forums asking for a skill queue and everybody was like "come on, another one, this horse's been beaten to death" " no is no" "devs have made it clear, NO"

Rumbaar
Solitary Forsaken
Posted - 2006.08.21 22:59:00 - [71]
 

Well I know that when I first started EVE courier missions were my only source of income. I couldn't do Level 2 Agent mission without losing 2-3 ships and World Collide as a new player is fairly hard to say the least.

You take out this until when, will hurt a lot of new to newer/old players. I'm sure getting them blown up at every second mission will encourage them to continue on past their 14 day trial .... best of luck with that.

Only deadspace mission, does that mean all non deadspace missions will go? What constitutes a deadspace mission, any mission with a jump gate? Can I assume that any missions like Rogue Slavers will go?

I hope not just throwing more NPC enemies (DPS increase) into a mission is your idea of increased mission variety and 'fun'.


Though I hope Dragon will improve server uptime and reliability. Time to get those 3D= skills ready for extended downtimes Smile


The Dokter
0utbreak
Posted - 2006.08.21 23:42:00 - [72]
 

Nice blog, and thank you for writing it down so I can get it Very Happy

About the courier missions.
If you are doing level 4 missions and have a +10 standing the you are an old player. If you are an old player you had enough time to train some skills to do other missions then only courier or maybe you can produce something in eve. Don't see the problem.

If you are a noob, you can easily do kill missions, when I started my char I was in a bc after 1,5 months (took me that long to get the money+standings, not to train decent skills) And could do level 2 kill missions.

If you are afking the missions and that's the only thing you are doing. Why? Then only thing you are doing is making lag(you are loged in and don't have fun) and in my opinion doing the same as macro miners. It is good that they change it.

The only thing I hope they do is that the make missions where players can do something different then kill missions, because when you are on the indy part of eve and don't have any skills in killing, it is nice that you can do missions. So maybe you have to mine some special astroid, then transport it past some nasty pirats (that engage the ship that's transporting the mins you just mined, not the charSmile or you have to pass some random stations and every time you get there you get a new destination) and after that you have the produce a civilian shield booster with a specific bpc you got of your agent (what uses 1 zilion of some new mineral what it specific for your mission:P) Sounds like fun to me, and it means that people play a mission and not just afk them Twisted Evil

O and when we are on the subject of making money out of doing stuff afk, can we get a special 0.0 smartbomb that you can fit and kill's all the npc's in a belt, because I just hate sitting behind my pc at work and having to focus on the something to make some isk Cool

Trek
Minmatar
Karebear Afflatus Relief Emphasis
Posted - 2006.08.22 00:08:00 - [73]
 

I recognize the need to beef up the security of the client, but is that really a reason to drop support for older platforms? My guess would be that this because you have chosen to use some internal windows encryption functionality (at least that is the impression one gets from the blogs).
If so, why not implement that functionality in the client instead of relying on some windows funcion calls? I realize it means more work, but there are loads of open implementations which should be possible to either use more or less directly, or as a reference.

Microsoft dropping support doesn't mean you have to, right? Even if CCP are pretty deep in bed with MS...
Look at IBM, now that is how support for old hard/software should be! Very Happy


(And no, I do not run any of the no longer supported versions of windows.)

Aurora Spacefarer
Posted - 2006.08.22 00:12:00 - [74]
 

Oh, and to reply to the eternal question I'm quite sure will be asked:

Why do you have people creating new stuff instead of fixing stuff?

The people creating missions and encounters are content developers. They can't write code, they can't fix bugs in code, in fact, one could say that they were able to create bugs and if anything, they have less chance to create them now in the new agent mission system. :)
I have to admit Laughing

this is one of the main reasons I love the CCP team (especially Oveur I admit) you guys got a sense of humor

I have played (with an other charector) since nov of the first year of eve (I want to say that was 2004 but I am not 100% certain) and I remember all the times someone has given Oveur (especially) and other staff crap for not fixing things that they have nothing to do with even with all the crap Oveur has heard over the years he can still take it as a joke (not something I am sure I would have been able to)

Aurora

Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2006.08.22 00:51:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Oveurís Dev Blog
We were going to replace a lot of them with the usual "go there and get stuff" but we felt we weren't doing anyone any favors.


I think youíve got a typo there. It seems that you were trying to say, Ď but we felt we didnít want to do anyone any favors.í


Originally by: d00bld0ze
Those courier cargo mission level 4, who you can earn huge quantity of money, juste with afk jump, is like afk macro mining. Good to ear that there are removed!


You obviously have no idea what youíre talking about. 2M-4M for hours of travel time doesnít make a rich man. Most level 4 courier missions paid well under 1M total, it was just the huge load Need a Hand, Multiple Orders, Various Deliveries and to a lesser extent Station Maintenance missions that paid over a million, but with a minimal haul of 40k-50k m3, usually into the 100k m3 + range.

Those who have claimed they got rich off it also usually say theyíre using a freighter and do a whole bunch simultaneously while also hauling NPC trade goods as a secondary cargo. Thatís still a lot of work planning out the logistics of all that, and that was precisely what made it interesting.

AFK means youíre not there. Thereís a difference between actually being AFK and not staring at your screen during endless warps and gate travel.

But thatís right, I almost forgot that so many players would rather that Eve be nothing more than a complicated X-Wing Vs TIE Fighter and complain about any player who finds a different facet of the game enjoyable or rewarding.

Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Do not tell me what is boring, I am quite capable of deciding that myself.


That pretty much sums it all up.

[sarcasm=lightly salted] One last request though, please make every single thing a player can do in this game require at least 2 hours of devoted butt-in-chair screen-staring eye-bleeding boredom (and ownership of a Raven). [/sarcasm] (( In addition to the Wink I also require that a nod, shrug and single raised eyebrow be added. Thank You. ))

Gretchen Dawntreader
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.08.22 01:06:00 - [76]
 

Somewhere back around RMR deployment, the level 4 advisory agent for PTS in Orduin (Metro) went from almost all courier to about 80% kill. I can't do level 4 kill missions in my Iteron. I'm working on battleship skills but have about 6 months left to even consider the simplest level 4 combat.

So now all courier missions are going to go that way?

I'd say if you are making a big change and you know it will involve leaving a big hole in the game but you decided to leave filling that hole until somewhere in the future, then you aren't ready to deploy said change.

If level 4 courier/haul/fetch aren't readily available then about a third to a half of my game activity goes away. My best agents in my highest standing corps will be serving up missions I have to refuse....then refuse the next one 4 hours later....won't that be fun.

Elassar
Posted - 2006.08.22 01:40:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Elassar on 22/08/2006 01:41:15
1. Not happy about the courier mission changes.

2. Not happy about the courier mission explanation from CCP which is cryptic at best.

3. Maybe 1000 players with old OS but many, many more players like the courier missions.

4. Not happy that courier mission runners are being called cheaters, exploiters and fools.

5. Guess I need a new career. How about griefing 1 day old players as they mine? I don't need many combat skills for that.

Weirda
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2006.08.22 02:23:00 - [78]
 

its not cool to force people out of their play habits - though weirda is still very much looking forward to this patch (doesn't do courier missions... ever)...

on the bright side - some of the courier pilots may find that they enjoy a different aspect of eve that they may never have discover... again though - not cool if they being forced to.

Genericforumalt
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2006.08.22 03:00:00 - [79]
 

All I kno is these forums are goin to look like WW3 tomorro.

Tolarus
Clown Punchers.
Clown Punchers Syndicate
Posted - 2006.08.22 04:24:00 - [80]
 

Will EVEMon still function after these changes are made?

Stephar
The High Priest
Posted - 2006.08.22 04:27:00 - [81]
 

Removing the courier missions before replacements have been added is not good. I run kill missions primarily, but do a few courier runs to mix things up. Two thumbs down.

Madcat Adams
Amarr
Romulan Technologies Limited
Posted - 2006.08.22 05:01:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Madcat Adams on 22/08/2006 05:02:24
I'm most displeased at the moving of all missions into dead space zones. First off as a new lvl 4 mission runner, open space engagements are good. Unlike many my mission running ship is a Apoc, and that means range is my friend. Dead space can't be warped into at 80 km, and deadspace has deadly drone agro bugs that kill ships. Not to mention large amounts of collidable objects that make my computer LAAAAAAG, usually right after the drones just agroed the entire zone, till the pod pops out. Razz

Secondaly, plz say that you are putting in new courier missions that won't be combat mission in disguise. No I don't run courier missions, the bore me to tears. Thing is one of the greatest aspects of Eve is that it has so many roles. You can quite literally do almost anything in the game. Changing it into a gun bunny game will tarnish Eve, and mark my words if you keep removing playstyle options in favor of a pure pvp game, Eve will stagnate and pass away. Just look at SW galaxies. It was a game with infinate promise, but Sony listened to the pvp maniacs (not all pvps are manics, but a sad majority seem to be) and the game transformed into a joke.

*shrugs into my flak vest and puts my helmet on* ready for patch day. =)

Dawx
Posted - 2006.08.22 05:07:00 - [83]
 

i was checkin the patch note >
Agent and Mission Improvements & Fixes

Many missions have been retired as they use code that is now obsolete. This includes almost all the courier missions.
Improved the reply given by agents you have too low standing to use
Fixed a rare error "deactivating" deadspace acceleration gates in certain circumstances
------------------


so the new patch will delete all the agent misson under > manufacturing? OMG no no

Tyler Lowe
DROW Org
Brotherhood of the Spider
Posted - 2006.08.22 05:09:00 - [84]
 

I appreciate the heads up on the "whats", and the "whys" are perhaps beside the point but interesting to read, so thanks for taking the time to write out that blog.

However:

It seems unfair that people who have chosen a non combat path are not being given an option to replace courier missions they may have come to depend on, both for some added income, and as a way to find enjoyment from the game.

I don't personally run them, but I know folks that do, and it strikes me as wrong to take an aspect of game play away from them that they have found ways to make entertaining. An aspect, I might add, that they have dedicated skill training towards (i.e. subcription time, meaning real world money).

I most respectfully request that the development team please reconsider the decision not to replace these missions within the near future. Even if the selection were to be quite limited in the short term, it would be better than nothing at all for those that enjoy/rely courier type missions.

Montego
Posted - 2006.08.22 06:37:00 - [85]
 

So after months of maxing social / nav skills and acquiring a freighter, CCP goes and kills courier missions!!

That just makes me sick to my stomach!

What next?! Nerf drones so I can't use them in combat missions??!!!

Minikrimi Extreme
Zephyr Manufacturing Group
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2006.08.22 06:43:00 - [86]
 

Wow, you know I only kept this account active for this school year because I knew that if nothing else, I can run courier missions. I guess that if you have no more than 1 hour available at a time for active playing (meaning not afking) then there really is no point to continuing with Eve at this time. That is majorly disappointing, because I prized the flexibility of the system, allowing and encouraging a wide range of game play. However, it appears that all I will be able to do is to log on and switch skills--something I didn't deem worthwhile to pay for with my main account, much less a mission alt.


Kitty O'Shay
Tharsis Security
Posted - 2006.08.22 06:45:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Montego
So after months of maxing social / nav skills and acquiring a freighter, CCP goes and kills courier missions!!

That just makes me sick to my stomach!

What next?! Nerf drones so I can't use them in combat missions??!!!

Courier missions should be back in Kali, which is now less than 2 months away.

And, honestly, isn't it better to wait a bit, and have new content using the new authoring system, than have some crap hacked together just to hold you over?

Besides, start hauling for player, I think 300-500k per empire jump is better than what NPCs pay.

Durethia
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.08.22 07:12:00 - [88]
 


Speaking of Linux...

Are you guys gonna finally allow a native Linux port, or formally address Transgaming for full emulated support?

Sprobe Grga
Posted - 2006.08.22 07:30:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Oveur
With courier missions, they will come back, but we're trying to make them a tad more interesting than flying between stations.


I am still not sure how to get it. Do you remove ALL courier missions or will I be able to get courier missions even after this patch?

Magnum III
Journey On Squad
Posted - 2006.08.22 08:11:00 - [90]
 

This NEW missions stuff is great news IMO, thank you so much for the fun and more interesting missions in the future. :)

It might even be more fun to do missions in groups just for the fun of it, I know more interesting would be good for groups.

I wonder if we can get some missions that reward an entire "gang" when completed?


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