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blankseplocked Ferox: 2 Shield Power Relay I's, or 2 Ballistic Control System II's?
 
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Azural Kane
Caldari
Cosmic Solutions
Posted - 2006.08.01 21:45:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Azural Kane on 01/08/2006 21:54:16
Edited by: Azural Kane on 01/08/2006 21:48:57
Hi all,

I'm finalizing my Ferox PvP buildout, and am looking for suggestions.

I've ran numbers on all my resists, and have a passive tanking buildout I really like, but, I'm looking for opinions from those who've done this before. =) Considering tanking and DPS tradeoffs, in "real" combat, which buildout might be more realistically effective?



Build #1) "Massive Tankage"

High Slots:
------------

5 XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay
2 E50 Prototype Energy Vampire

Medium Slots:
---------------

2 Invulnerability Field II
2 Large Shield Extender II
1 20km Warp Scrambler

Low Slots:
-----------

4 Shield Power Relay I



Build #2) "Lose Massive Tankage but Gain DPS"

High Slots:
------------

5 XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay
2 E50 Prototype Energy Vampire

Medium Slots:
---------------

2 Invulnerability Field II
2 Large Shield Extender II
1 20km Warp Scrambler

Low Slots:
-----------

2 Ballistic Control System II
2 Shield Power Relay I



Notes: The second build really hurts my tank, which is my primary focus for this ship. However, I don't have the experience to know whether the added 2 launcher's worth of DPS, (almost, after you do the math) is worth it over the reduced tank? Suggestions anyone? Any advice is most appreciated. Thanks much! =)

Edit: Another note. I seem to regenerate very little capacitor when not fighting or using active modules with the 4 Shield Power Relay setup. But, I didn't notice much of a usable increase, if any, when doing testing with the Ballistic Control System modules.

Edit #2: Just to note, those 2 Shield Power Relay's provide a *significant* increase in shield regen. It removes 3 minutes from my overall recharge time, reducing it from rougly 8 minutes, 17 seconds, to 5 minutes, 17 seconds, and also increasing my HP/s regenned by a lot. I'm leaning towards the Relay's, but, just thought I'd canvas for opinions.

Waenn Ironstaff
Caldari
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
Posted - 2006.08.01 21:55:00 - [2]
 

With the use of 4 Shield Relays, your cap regen is killed no matter what you try.

I would suggest you keep the relays...The DPS of the Ferox is negligible at best and its tanking ability is its strongest point.

As for me, I use a Passive tank combined with rails for PvP (untested as so far though).

Azural Kane
Caldari
Cosmic Solutions
Posted - 2006.08.01 23:26:00 - [3]
 

Thanks for the advice! This is what I was leaning toward, but, if anyone else has any advice or thoughts on this, any input is appreciated. =)

Kombikiller
The Edge Foundation
Zenith Affinity
Posted - 2006.08.02 01:28:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Kombikiller on 02/08/2006 01:29:02
Try this...

Low Slots:
-----------
2 Ballistic Control System II
2 Power Diagnostic Units II

I still have a great tank, and the BCS's make a world of diference to the damage you can do.. p.s. I have no cap issues at all and can run hardners indefinately. Keep the BCS's ... the only time i change this is putting in a Stab or 2 if im venturing into low sec. (a solo ferox will die against a gang of pirates.. you have to get out to your safe spot Wink)

LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
Posted - 2006.08.02 02:57:00 - [5]
 

I'm not entirely sure, but I think the NOS's are kind of a waste for Pvp purposes if you are running a passive tank. You don't need cap with a passive tank. The only thing that really uses any cap is that 20km scram. I wouldn't lose the NOS, but I would try fitting things that will take advantage of the extra cap given by the NOS (Shield boosters).

I currently fly a Passively tanked Ferox, with 2 shield power relays and 2 BCU II's and its great for Lvl III missions, but I once came across a pie in lowsec and had my a%* handed to me in no time. Course, he was in an absolution which didn't help and I made some key mistakes (like firing at him when I was 4k from the gate).

I've actually never run a shield booster on my ferox, but my guess is that with the extra cap you might as well.

N Solarz
Caldari
Chaos Reborn
Posted - 2006.08.02 03:14:00 - [6]
 

drop the 20 k scram and fit another shield extender. then in lows fit 3 pdus and 1 bcu. crazy tank

Matrim Acoma
Posted - 2006.08.02 03:24:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
I'm not entirely sure, but I think the NOS's are kind of a waste for Pvp purposes if you are running a passive tank. You don't need cap with a passive tank. The only thing that really uses any cap is that 20km scram. I wouldn't lose the NOS, but I would try fitting things that will take advantage of the extra cap given by the NOS (Shield boosters).



The NOS isn't about gaining CAP, it's to use on small little frigs. Drain their CAP quick and they are toast.

- Mat

Tyler Lowe
DROW Org
Brotherhood of the Spider
Posted - 2006.08.02 04:06:00 - [8]
 

5x Heavy Missile Launcher II
1x Medium Deminishing Power System Drain
1x Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator

2x Invulnerability Field II
2x Large Shield Extender II
1x 20km Scram

2x BCU II
2x Shield Power Relay

Since you won't be needing any cap yourself, switch one of the Nos with a Neutralizer.

Hayabusa Fury
Caldari
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.08.02 06:27:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Matrim Acoma
Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
I'm not entirely sure, but I think the NOS's are kind of a waste for Pvp purposes if you are running a passive tank. You don't need cap with a passive tank. The only thing that really uses any cap is that 20km scram. I wouldn't lose the NOS, but I would try fitting things that will take advantage of the extra cap given by the NOS (Shield boosters).



The NOS isn't about gaining CAP, it's to use on small little frigs. Drain their CAP quick and they are toast.

- Mat




If you just want to drain CAP off the target use Nuet's instead of NOS.

I use 3 Shield Extender II's(just over 10k Shield HP) and invul fields in the medium slots. I even drop the invul fields for scram, web, or sensor boosters for some PvP.
BCU's and PDU's in the lows, 2/2 usually.

Azural Kane
Caldari
Cosmic Solutions
Posted - 2006.08.02 16:45:00 - [10]
 

Why do I see everyone using PDU's or PDU II's?

The extra cap, cap regen, and power grid seem useless for this type of setup. You don't gain as many HP/s as far as shield regen is concerned overall, instead of a Shield Power Relay I. Is there some mystical secret to PDU's I'm missing? =)

Sir JJ
Posted - 2006.08.02 20:00:00 - [11]
 

heres my Ferox setup its not so good for pvp as of the lack a warp scrambler


x5 heavy missile launchers
X2 small nos(not enough cpu for meds)
X4 named or t2 large extenders
X4 shield power relays


works great for lv3 missions i have never used it in pvp though hope this helps.

Waenn Ironstaff
Caldari
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
Posted - 2006.08.02 20:33:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Azural Kane
Why do I see everyone using PDU's or PDU II's?

The extra cap, cap regen, and power grid seem useless for this type of setup. You don't gain as many HP/s as far as shield regen is concerned overall, instead of a Shield Power Relay I. Is there some mystical secret to PDU's I'm missing? =)


No reason to use PDS if you're passive tanking with a Ferox. THe Shield regen bonus is vastly inferior to those given by Shield Relays and the cap regen/amount bonus is completely irrevelant to that kind of bonus.

Considering that only 2 things use cap (active hardners and scrams), the Ferox has plenty of cap to use them.

SR>PDS

Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2006.08.02 20:38:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Waenn Ironstaff
Originally by: Azural Kane
Why do I see everyone using PDU's or PDU II's?

The extra cap, cap regen, and power grid seem useless for this type of setup. You don't gain as many HP/s as far as shield regen is concerned overall, instead of a Shield Power Relay I. Is there some mystical secret to PDU's I'm missing? =)


No reason to use PDS if you're passive tanking with a Ferox. THe Shield regen bonus is vastly inferior to those given by Shield Relays and the cap regen/amount bonus is completely irrevelant to that kind of bonus.

Considering that only 2 things use cap (active hardners and scrams), the Ferox has plenty of cap to use them.

SR>PDS


2 PDU IIs and 2 Shield Power relays are better than 2 BCU IIs and 2 Shield Power relays because PDU IIs give shield HP and shield rcharge at the same time both of which are important for a passive tank especially with shield extenders AND shield power relays.

Amelia Reign
Posted - 2006.08.02 21:27:00 - [14]
 

5x Heavy Missile Launcher t2
2x Named medium NOS

2x Multispectral ECM
1x Racial ECM
1x 90% Webber
1x Scramler

3x BCU
1x CPR

I actually tried a very similar build, shines brighter in a gang though.

Azural Kane
Caldari
Cosmic Solutions
Posted - 2006.08.02 21:40:00 - [15]
 

If you are going to use 2 SPR's, and 2 PDU II's - why not just use 4 SPR's?

It seems as if the much higher shield regen with 4 SPR's would outweigh the benefits of slightly higher total shields and regen rate.

I did some math on this the other day with PDU I's, but I don't have it saved. I'll try to post some calculations for review - (or feel free to post some of your own.)

--

With that being said, I'm still interested in hearing additional arguments on my original topic if anyone has any thoughts?

Thanks for all the feedback, this is just what I'm looking for. =)

kombimon
Posted - 2006.08.03 03:27:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: kombimon on 03/08/2006 03:43:38
  • Item
Originally by: Azural Kane
Why do I see everyone using PDU's or PDU II's?

The extra cap, cap regen, and power grid seem useless for this type of setup. You don't gain as many HP/s as far as shield regen is concerned overall, instead of a Shield Power Relay I. Is there some mystical secret to PDU's I'm missing? =)


Not sure why i use PDU II's myself over SPR II's...

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Azural Kane
Caldari
Cosmic Solutions
Posted - 2006.08.03 06:39:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: kombimon
Edited by: kombimon on 03/08/2006 03:43:38
  • Item
Originally by: Azural Kane
Why do I see everyone using PDU's or PDU II's?

The extra cap, cap regen, and power grid seem useless for this type of setup. You don't gain as many HP/s as far as shield regen is concerned overall, instead of a Shield Power Relay I. Is there some mystical secret to PDU's I'm missing? =)


Not sure why i use PDU II's myself over SPR II's...

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.




I'm not really either... ;)

To be honest, (and I'm just trying to figure this out for my reference...) do you really find yourself in need of the cap regen that bad to sacrifice some 12% shield regen per SPR? Your HP/s will be hurting with the PDU's, and you really shouldn't need the cap that bad anyway. Thoughts here?

Also, I'm sure you know, but for other's reference, SPR II's aren't available yet.

Roxanna Kell
Anormalii S.A.
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2006.08.03 06:49:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: N Solarz
drop the 20 k scram and fit another shield extender. then in lows fit 3 pdus and 1 bcu. crazy tank
and how would that be a pvp set up if he cant hold them down,

Azural Kane
Caldari
Cosmic Solutions
Posted - 2006.08.03 07:32:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Azural Kane on 03/08/2006 09:02:31
Edited by: Azural Kane on 03/08/2006 07:35:55
To clarify my questions on the PDU's:

Everything is a matter of choice, for sure.

I just genuinely don't understand how PDU II's over Shield Power Relay I's are supposed to make you a better passive shield tank, (if you're not trying to cram in something that needs the Powegrid?)

1) There's no need to worry about capacitor, so why would the PDU capacitor regen bonus needed?
2) While more total shields are nice, HP/s is more important, and will help you survive longer than just more total shields by themself. With that being said, you'll obviously get far greater HP/s from 4 Shield Power Relays than from 2 and 2, or any other combination that doesn't involve 4 Shield Power Relays.

Any thoughts?

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2006.08.03 10:18:00 - [20]
 

Well in PvP if you fit all PDS modules you can then run a full setup of Energy Neutralise's which are far more deadly then Nos if you have a friend doing damage and scrabblers it can be deadly for your enemy. You drain 2.5 more cap then Nos meaning 1 ship is out of cap fast. Or you ca drain cap off as 2 to 3 ships as well as a Nos setup drains off 1 ship.

PDS also extend the amount of time you spend at peak regen. With shield relays its possible for 1 volley to push you below peak regen. With PDS it can take 2 to 3 vollys and you spend longer in each regen area.

Donít forget you can also boost your shield hitpoints by 35% from skills another 5% from an implant then add mindlink on top of that. All that stacks with PDS when boosting shield extenders and the natural shields. Add a bit of resistance on and you get to a point where regen doesnít even matter you can relay on pure hitpoints during most battles.

This is comparing PDS 2 V shield relay T1.

Barbicane
TGUN Industries
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:07:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Azural Kane
I just genuinely don't understand how PDU II's over Shield Power Relay I's are supposed to make you a better passive shield tank, (if you're not trying to cram in something that needs the Powegrid?)...
You seem to be missing the fact that more shields also result in more shield regen. After all, that's what shield extenders do. They give you more shield, resulting in a higher regen rate.

Taking this into account, you'll see that a PDS II actually gives a +14.7% shield regen rate. It also gives a +14.7% capacitor regen rate, which is useful if you want to fit some invulnerability fields to improve your tank.

As a comparison, the SPR I gives +25% (yes, 1/0.8=1.25) shield regen, at the price of -35% capacitor regen.

As you said, there are uses for both but the PDS II may be better than you first realize.

Eximius Josari
New Atlantis Tek Corporation
Posted - 2006.08.03 13:01:00 - [22]
 

Could always try Magnetic Field Stabilizers.


 

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