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Madcat Adams
Romulan Technologies Limited
Posted - 2006.07.28 02:23:00 - [1]

Edited by: Madcat Adams on 31/07/2006 00:27:27
Edited by: Madcat Adams on 29/07/2006 14:14:40
This isn't a gripe thread. Many have expressed the desire for the Abaddon to be a carrier vs the current incarnaion, to fill out the Amarr abilites rather than just combing the abilites of the two battleships we already have.

The Arbitrator line shows that Amarr do use drones as a racial weapon as well as lasers, and that line has shown to be a solid ship, as well as our best pvp line. Now is the best chance as the desighns are still being finialzed to change the Abaddon, so please discuse and sighn if you would like to see this happen.

The ship could potentialy have a layout thus:
6 turret hard points
+5% armour resists per level or 5% tracking disruptor bonus
+5% drone speed and 5% drone tracking bonus or + 10% drone hps/dmg/mining
Drone Bay 300 m3

This way it won't negate the Dominix, and stay true to the Amarr philosophy of heavy armoured ships. Just desighned this off the top of my head, feel free to suggest improvements. Smile

This dominx could receive a second drone bonus as many have asked for over it's turret bonus, and has a larger drone by so the Abaddon wouldn't threaten it's place as top drone boat. The Abaddon would serve as a heavily armoured drone platform supporting the fleet with solid EW capabilites, something sorely missed in the Amarr fleet.

Updated desighn to incorporate some of the great ideas from this thread.

Posted - 2006.07.28 02:34:00 - [2]


Having an amarr drone bs would be awesome, its probably not going to happen tho because the modal Abaddon modal is designed to fit 8 turrets Crying or Very sad

Celestial Apocalypse
death from above..
Posted - 2006.07.28 03:00:00 - [3]

Edited by: Cohkka on 28/07/2006 03:01:00
A Carrier you say? Make the new Gallente tier 3 BS a Titan, please...Wink

PIE Inc.
Posted - 2006.07.28 03:13:00 - [4]

What is it with you drone whiners?!!!Rolling Eyes
The Abaddon is meant to be a Tachyon sniper, its kinda obvious with the bonuses. The Abaddon is like the bastard son of the Geddon and an apoc, with the best of both. You've got a rof bonus which is good cause Beam rof is kinda poor, and a resist bonus which with 2 Nano adaptive II's will be "wtf where did my damage go?!" seriously the Abaddon is fine as it is. Amarr arent gallente drone users. The arbitor is one freak incident to give the amarr the OPTION of using drones. i dont mind the drone bay on my Apoc, and i can use heavies. But over 30% of my skills are in Gunnery. As it should be. If you want a drone ship, train to a dominix, as NOTHING beats it as a drone carrier, except a carrier

Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
Posted - 2006.07.28 03:16:00 - [5]

I've always wanted a drone boat for amarr but what if we just had it as a Tracking Disruptor BS? I don't think any Amarr ship should have more than 6 midslots though...we aren't THAT good you know.

It would be an awesome ship given the fact that all the tier 3 BS's are turret based =P

So what about that...and if you reallllyy want it to be cool instead of "cool-ish" you could always give it a bonus similar to the augoror. +10% bonus to armor HP per level or something.

All I know is that the Amarr are only missing one kind of battleship. That battleship is a "support" battleship. Scorpion, Dominix (kind of), uhh...minmatar uhhh...flying garbage can I guess is support? I don't know bout them.

As it stands a ganking ship/tanking ship are already in the Amarr need for a masquerading ganking/tanking ship. The Amarr would be mopping the floor with their faces if they fought any other racial fleet as it stands. I'm surprised the caldari would even want to ally with technologically inferior people.

Amarr need a ship that will balance their lineup...another ganking/tanking ship doesn't do that. Wouldn't be surprised if it had the sensor strength of a frigate in all honesty (not talking about lockon speed or anything).

Posted - 2006.07.28 04:17:00 - [6]

wow, you want a ship wit 7 mids, 7 lows, 20 total slots, 300 drone bay, and 3 bonuses?

even though i would like it, since i would love a real drone ship, i think it is too much.

better something like 6/5/8


10% heavy drone damage
5% drone tracking

Vera Nosfyu
Duragon Pioneer Group
Posted - 2006.07.28 04:35:00 - [7]

The Arbitrator does not show that the Amarr use drones as a racial weapon. In fact, it says in the description that it's the exception, not the rule. By the same logic as this I could point at the Inquisitor and ask CCP to give you a missile boat and it would still seem grossly inappropriate.

Madcat Adams
Romulan Technologies Limited
Posted - 2006.07.28 04:48:00 - [8]

Originally by: Apertotes
wow, you want a ship wit 7 mids, 7 lows, 20 total slots, 300 drone bay, and 3 bonuses?

even though i would like it, since i would love a real drone ship, i think it is too much.

better something like 6/5/8


10% heavy drone damage
5% drone tracking

The Abaddon will already have 20 slots at 8/4/8, and the Dominix has three bonus with a 375 m3 drone bay. Rolling Eyes Also went with armour resists/drone speed/drone sig radius as the Dominix has turret dmg/Drone dmg/Drone hps so as not to just be making a bigger Dominix.

Posted - 2006.07.28 04:53:00 - [9]

Abaddon will be usefull if it gets enough grid/cpu to be fitted properly. However there wont be much use for the apoc once tier 3 bs are out. The cap bonus is completly wasted considering you need a cap injector anyway to run a good tank, and its damage aint very good either. So I'd much rather have the apoc remade to a drone ship.

7 medium slots is too much on an armortanking ship. That would be way to powerfull, atleast with the current state of ecm.

And hopefully if the apoc is remade it will be usefull for solo pvp. Right now amarr doenst have any battleships that are decent for solo.

Thana Tos
Posted - 2006.07.28 04:57:00 - [10]

I know, it will be an excellent laser boat, rof bonus, resists, blah blah blah..

but still.. please make it a drone carrier. Even Khanid. Kthx.

Posted - 2006.07.28 05:24:00 - [11]

i agree, amarr allready have 2 turret/tank bships, we certainly dont want ANOTHER.

Zanon Xiu
The Scope
Posted - 2006.07.28 05:38:00 - [12]

id be all over it we need more drone ships

Mos Eisley Social Club
Posted - 2006.07.28 05:41:00 - [13]

NO droneship plz (rain for carrier), 8 gungoodness ftbbq!!!

Victavious Asmandi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.07.29 02:51:00 - [14]

Hey, while we are at it, can we get a 375 drone bay for the Rohk as well? Caldari need some more drone loveing as well.

"Hi, I am Caldari, and i like drones".

Drones are my friends.....poor little buggers.

Mr Peanut
STK Scientific
Rule of Three
Posted - 2006.07.29 03:08:00 - [15]

Want a bigger arby? Try the Curse. While I would love to fly a BS arby, I wouldn't think it fair for the Gallente.

LordSlay Them
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.07.29 03:34:00 - [16]

Edited by: LordSlay Them on 29/07/2006 03:37:03
I would rather have a tachyon sniper, and hop in my domi when i felt like using drones.

- Lord

Caesar Galactus
Posted - 2006.07.29 05:44:00 - [17]

Signed, damnit. While I would love a drone BS, I would settle for anything different. We have a competent 8 Tach sniper, a monster tank, the second best mining BS, and L4 mission runner in one ship, and this role is being usurped entirely by the Abaddon. Make no mistake, the Apoc will be completely pointless. The Geddon will still be a great low-cost option, and 7 T2 Tachs (or Pulses/Beams, if you want) lay down the **** while being much gentler on cap than the Abaddon's insulting 8 turret, no cap bonus setup.

Amarr are huge drone users. Any dedicated Amarrian's DPS shoots up whenever he devotes some time to training drones. They are our only recourse for weapons variety barring comedy Projectile tanks.

Of course, the Abaddon could also be turned into something entirely focused towards EW. Perhaps bonuses to Tracking Disruptors (keeping with the Arbitrator/Crucifier theme) and one other EW device.

Or how about something new? A smartbomb boat? A mini-Dread with token mini-Siege Mode? At this point, I would even prefer an armed industrial ship to the watered-down hunk of unoriginality that the Abaddon is about to become.

Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.07.29 06:06:00 - [18]

Drone boats lose a slot. Ishkur has one slot fewer than all other assault frigates, Ishtar has the fewest turret slots of all HACs, Vexor is low on slots, and the Dominix has the same slot count as a Scorpion - 18, instead of 19 which all other battleships have. If the Abaddon is to be a drone boat, it would have 18 or 19 slots, certainly not 20.

Posted - 2006.07.29 08:31:00 - [19]

I had a silly thought: They could make the Abaddon the bastard child of the Arbitrator, and the Inquisitor. Give it 4 missile hard points, a bonus to drones, and a bonus to missile EM damage, and 6-6-6 slot layout. :)

Posted - 2006.07.29 10:28:00 - [20]

Since, more or less:

Omen -> Geddon (DMG)
Maller -> Apoc (TANK)

I was also expecting the Abaddon to be like a bigger Arbitrator.. what Amarr really miss is a good skirmish ship like a raven or domi.

Madcat Adams
Romulan Technologies Limited
Posted - 2006.07.29 11:11:00 - [21]

Edited by: Madcat Adams on 29/07/2006 11:12:04
Originally by: Apertotes

better something like 6/5/8


10% heavy drone damage
5% drone tracking

Actually, this idea is growing on me.

Say 6/6/7
5% armour resists
5% drone speed/5% drone tracking

I use the double drone bonus as the Dominix has one, and the Curse as well, take it comes in pairs? If not then just the drone tracking. Functions as a well armoured mobile drone ship that supports the fleet with solid EW capability.

Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.07.29 11:13:00 - [22]

dont touch my abaddon!, 8 turrets with RoF ftw Cool

Miner Protection Guild
Posted - 2006.07.29 11:32:00 - [23]

Personally, I'll be very very afraid of the abbadon.. it's the perfect gankship, stop whining.

A Amarr drone BS would be massively out of whack. You've got ONE ship, ONE, geared towards drones, and it's description even says it somewhat of a oddball amarr ship.

I want the abbadon to be a 8/4/8 with 8 missile slots, 'cuz the Inquisitor clearly shows that Missiles are a Amarrian weapon! Rolling Eyes

Daz Sampson
Posted - 2006.07.29 11:42:00 - [24]

"You've got ONE ship, ONE, geared towards drones, "
err no

Deja Thoris
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2006.07.29 11:50:00 - [25]

Originally by: LordSlay Them
Edited by: LordSlay Them on 29/07/2006 03:37:03
I would rather have a tachyon sniper, and hop in my domi when i felt like using drones.

- Lord

You have a tachyon sniper. It's called a geddon.

Variety is what the OP is asking for. Not a geddon and apoc rolled into one.

I happen to agree with him.

Miner Protection Guild
Posted - 2006.07.29 12:35:00 - [26]

Originally by: Daz Sampson
"You've got ONE ship, ONE, geared towards drones, "
err no

Err yes? Unless of course you coun't the tech II versions, in which case you've got three. 3 out of 29.

Flash Landsraad
coracao ardente
Posted - 2006.07.29 12:47:00 - [27]

Give the Abaddon:

5% Tracking Disruptor effectiveness per level
5% NOS effectiveness per level

With a large drone bay and it's like a BS sized curse Very Happy

Afterall we Amarr people are tracking disruptors and NOS in the ewar department...

Might be a tad overpowered though Confused

How about:

5% Tracking Disruptor effectiveness per level
5% Armour resistances per level

With 8/4/8 layout

8x pulse, scram, web, cap injector, tracking disruptor, 2x Large T2 Rep, 2x EANM2, 1600mm plate, 3x T2 Heat Sinks Very Happy

*Kisses Amarr BS 5 (A man can dream can't he?)

Udyr Vulpayne
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2006.07.29 13:03:00 - [28]

personally i think that a droneboat needs the default drone bonus +10% damage/hitpoints/mining and so the abaddon should get that one too. to seperate it from the domi you can still have a different sized dronebay and maybe give the domi a second dronebonus to make sure gallente can keep the main drone-bs.
without those up to 50% more damage and hitpoints the abaddon's drones would be far too weak comapred to other droneboats.

also in regards to the "tier3 drone bs > tier 1 drone bs argument" :
a drone-abaddon could always have lower base stats/slots than the other tier 3 bs or one could simply stick to laser gank for the abaddon and change the geddon/apoc to a drone-bs instead.

regarding the "drones are not a typical amarr weapons" stuff:
that may be true for the fiction but most certainly not for the situation we have on the server right now. the arbi isnt just one single ignoreable cruiser we have its our very best cruiser for most pvp related activity. vera should actually be very aware of this as she and her corpmates were on the recieving end of an arbi more than a few times.

you cant really go with fiction alone for balancing issues as that would require amarr fleets to always outnumber their opponents and lasers to be much more powerful than they currently are. our storywise strengths just dont translate well/at all into something resembling balance.

restricting amarr (battleships) to lasers only produces a massive weakness as such a fleet can be countered quiet easily. sure we can still crush our enemies if we always bring superior numbers and size as we should do as per storyline but i dont think thats what we should aim for.

a good way to give amarrian battleships the much needed versatility will be to allow them the possibilty to deal damage that doesnt involve lasers or otherwise resticts them to mainly EM damage. theres not too many ways to do that: drones, missiles or other races turrets. added to that an amarrian pilot who whishes to use our most powerful t1 cruiser or one of its t2 variants will train up drones anyway. and even if you decide to go straigth to bs and ignore cruisers you will need to train up droneskills as they will be a vital part of a good geddon setup.
as i said earlier drones are already one of our main weapons in regards to game reality.
so a drone bs seems to be preferable over a missile-bs or even a projectile/hybrid bs which would make even less sense storywise. granted you could also give us an ewar bs but that would feel just as out of place as a projectile boat.

regarding the "omg stop whining .. the abaddon will be teh awesome" crying:
i can see perfectly clear that the proposed ship with 5% resistance and 5% rof will be very strong and very deadly. it will also be very boring. as per devblog it can either tank better than the apoc -> aka replace the apoc or gank better than the geddon -> aka replace the geddon. so if it gets released this way theres really not much reason to fly an apoc or a geddon then. and even if people would still chose to fly the other 2 bs for some sentimental reason we would end up with 3 ships doing virtually the same while being incredibly easy to counter with a setup that works against all 3 of them at the same time.

my personal preference regaring an amarr drone-bs:

tier 1:
abaddon: 10%drone damage/hitpoints/mining + maybe some tanking bonus or other non drone bonus

tier 2:
apoc: 5% resistance + 5% armor hp (could be sth else but preferably not cap use here as using lasers and creating a dedicated tanker dont really mix very well anyway)

tier 3:
geddon: 5% rof 10% reduce in capuse

the reason i would switch geddon and abaddon is purely based on the ship design.
imho abaddon looks more like a drone carrier than the geddon.

tier 2 and 3 could be the other way around as well.

and if you must have the domi as a superior drone-bs just give it a 2nd drone related bonus.

Udyr Vulpayne
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2006.07.29 13:12:00 - [29]

Originally by: LordSlay Them

I would rather have a tachyon sniper, and hop in my domi when i felt like using drones.

you may notice that the domi is in fact a gallentean ship not an amarrian one like the abaddon. also: leaving its internal values aside the domi can quiet easily be describes as hideous.

Leumas Ebmocnud
Nebula Rasa Vanguard
Nebula Rasa
Posted - 2006.07.29 14:06:00 - [30]

6 / 7 / 7 slot layout

good lord !ShockedShockedShocked

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