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Crandall Six
Caldari
Black Knight Buccaneers
Sparta Alliance
Posted - 2006.07.18 01:58:00 - [1]
 

Several days ago ISTC was the victim of corp theft. Normally this issue would not merit a post here, however the betrayal was so complete that we feel all must be warned.

Yatar is someone we have been flying with for years, here and in other galaxies. He was recently our CEO, and resigned the position citing lack of time to participate in corporate activities.

He then posted here slamming our alliance and his desire to find a new corp. Before he could be removed for this action he took all of the corporations isk and a small pos. The amount taken, while it hurts the corporation, isn't extremely high and we can recover from it. It is the fact that he took it in the first place.

The other issue we have run into, is while he was ceo he gave his alt a majority of the shares, and has not returned them. This effectively limits our corporations ability to function properly, and while we have some options, just the fact that he can override any vote we make will be difficult.

The list of people you want to watch out for:
Yatar Kindoki
Diana Faye (alt)
coasterx (alt)
subsector (alt)

He also has an army of Yatar's and others, but those are his main used accounts.

I am posting this because our CEO is having difficulty logging in, and will be replying to this thread as soon as he can.

Thank you for your time, and consider yourself warned. He did this to us after almost 2 years here, and time elsewhere, he will do it to you with no problem.

Crandall Six
Director- ISTC






Bothius
Gallente
RemoteSpace Indasty
Posted - 2006.07.18 02:13:00 - [2]
 

If only there was some explanation...

SigmaPi
Gallente
Valkyr Industries
Posted - 2006.07.18 02:24:00 - [3]
 

Although my corp does not wish to be involved in any flames, I must make a statement in this thread.

We (Pandoras Mining Covenant) were approached by Yatar with inquiries about joining our corp, and our alliance. After some talks and deliberation, Yatar was decided to be let into PMCO. Luckily, Crandall and Rogue confronted a fellow Director in PMCO and shared much info on this situation. Yatar was kicked less than 10 minutes after he was let into PMCO. Although we donít know the full truth on any of this, Yatar was untruthful when confronted with evidence against him. Crandall and Rogue sent us a log of a convo with Yatar and, soon there after, it was decided to kick Yatar from the corp.

I advise all to look out for this char. I donít know one way or another about this issue, but he was untruthful about many situations and I would like no one else to fall victim to any possible problems.

SigmaPi
Director, Human Relations
Pandoras Mining Covenant
RISE Diplomat

MrFu
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.07.18 02:44:00 - [4]
 

I can understand why he is mad,but theft and robbery is not the answer...

bad Yatar,bad...Sad

Viper ShizzIe
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.07.18 02:52:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Viper ShizzIe on 18/07/2006 02:55:04
Wrong thread ><

OMGWTF PWN
Caldari
FREGE HOLDINGS
FREGE Alliance
Posted - 2006.07.18 03:26:00 - [6]
 

why are we not supprised this putz would do something like this...

doesnt ban tier need him back in norad?

Nalrath Tolahnia
Gallente
GREY COUNCIL
Hydra Alliance
Posted - 2006.07.18 04:33:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: OMGWTF PWN
why are we not supprised this putz would do something like this...

doesnt ban tier need him back in norad?


Alts...Rolling Eyes

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2006.07.18 07:58:00 - [8]
 

No, I do not really like spies and corp-thiefs, but on the other hand:

Traitors betrayed, it is classic. Come to the North, it has everything for a great drama. The only thing we still lack is an epical love-story. Any takers? Laughing

Emsigma
Caldari
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2006.07.18 08:43:00 - [9]
 

I guess the "I hate Yatar Kindoki" alliancr has gained a few members now :D

From personal experience I know that Yatar is not the right guy to upset and that he has a whole deck of cards up his sleeve.

What is the backstory to this? I assume that he did not just do this out of thin air?

Ggrimreaper
Caldari
Dreamscape
Daisho Syndicate
Posted - 2006.07.18 08:56:00 - [10]
 

AFAIK it was caused by the whole deklein mess

e.g turning on D2

bohda
Gallente
Black Knight Buccaneers
Daisho Syndicate
Posted - 2006.07.18 11:24:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
No, I do not really like spies and corp-thiefs, but on the other hand:

Traitors betrayed, it is classic.


For the record, ISTC voted AGAINST the Sparta decision to go to war with D2, we acknowledged the fact that D2 have been a source of great strength and provided us with many benefits. Our corp has several former members in D2 and numerous friends, however we are not a corp to run from our responsibilities and respected the decision of our Alliance council and followed the decision, despite our grave misgivings about it. Also for the record, we were the only corp at that meeting to vote against the action against D2.

The story of Yatar goes back a little further than the D2 situation and most of it relates to clashes within Sparta and ISTC between himself and several others resulting in bad blood and several, as yet unfounded, allegations about his activity and fianlly ended with his last insult of stealing from a corp he had been linked with for several years and pilots that he had been with for even longer. I believe that the final acts of Sparta contributed to Yatar's action but that it was not the only problem he had at the time. His actions with Coasterx has seriously damaged our Corp and hurt several players however ISTC comes from the blood lines of BKB and we are made of sturdy stuff, we will overcome this and we will rebuild our Corp, either as ISTC or in another guise.

Personnaly I will not be taking further action against Yatar unless provoked to do so, it's only Isk at the end of the day and I know this action will have far reaching consequences for him. I just hope the Isk makes him feel happy as he remembers the friends he has lost.

elorran
Minmatar
Department of Defence
Deadline.
Posted - 2006.07.18 11:33:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Emsigma

What is the backstory to this? I assume that he did not just do this out of thin air?


A long time ago it was said that Yatar secretly stole the batteries of the Energizer bunny, and now with this incredible source of power, he as near limitless energies to wreck is plans and schemes upon the world.

But this of course is just a rumour and shouldn't be taken at face value.

Crandall Six
Caldari
Black Knight Buccaneers
Sparta Alliance
Posted - 2006.07.18 11:34:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Crandall Six on 18/07/2006 11:36:37
Originally by: Ggrimreaper
AFAIK it was caused by the whole deklein mess

e.g turning on D2


Actually, what bohda said pretty much covers it. According to Yatar, the D2 situation and what he did to ISTC were two different situations.

And honestly it isn't even the isk that hurts the most, it is his actions with the corp shares.


Darko1107
Caldari
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2006.07.18 11:40:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
No, I do not really like spies and corp-thiefs, but on the other hand:

Traitors betrayed, it is classic. Come to the North, it has everything for a great drama. The only thing we still lack is an epical love-story. Any takers? Laughing


Erm i think u'll find theres always been a love story in the north! Me and woody..... Wink

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2006.07.18 11:50:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Darko1107
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
No, I do not really like spies and corp-thiefs, but on the other hand:

Traitors betrayed, it is classic. Come to the North, it has everything for a great drama. The only thing we still lack is an epical love-story. Any takers? Laughing


Erm i think u'll find theres always been a love story in the north! Me and woody..... Wink
I thought it was a threesome with you, woody and lorthugh

jeepfreek
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2006.07.18 12:08:00 - [16]
 

I am a long time member of BKB and newly to ISTC. What Yatar/Coasterx did to us was not so much the isk involved, it was the friendship/brotherhood he betrayed. He has also been banned from any other of the BKB groups in other games we play. We lost a brother this past week. One that his true colors came to light.

Nahual
Gallente
NibbleTek
Posted - 2006.07.18 12:13:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Darko1107
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
No, I do not really like spies and corp-thiefs, but on the other hand:

Traitors betrayed, it is classic. Come to the North, it has everything for a great drama. The only thing we still lack is an epical love-story. Any takers? Laughing


Erm i think u'll find theres always been a love story in the north! Me and woody..... Wink
I thought it was a threesome with you, woody and lorthugh


tbh woody is a bit of....well "the village bicycle" in the sense that he has relations with everyone Shocked but no-one minds...for he is woody...and we all love him Very Happy

Yatar Kindoki
Caldari
H.Y.D.R.A.
Posted - 2006.07.18 15:06:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Yatar Kindoki on 18/07/2006 20:32:44
Woohoo I'm famous!

The bad decision to stab our long-term friends, D2 & Friends, did not sit well with me. Destroying all the hard work I put into the corporation and alliance was unnacceptable. It was never meant to be a pirate corporation. As CEO, I decided to disband the entity.

A few members wished to continue the corporation, thus:

In turn, I handed CEO position to a reputable member, however I took retribution in the form of some isk and a pos(I was CEO at the time). Many assets remained, the corporation was not 'cleaned out'. While this does not sit well with some members, their decision to destroy our way of gameplay is unnacceptable. I gave up pirating over a year ago.

They can call me traitor etc etc etc. But they were the ones that decided to 'traitor' against D2 & long term friends.

Friends change in this GAME, but what ISTC & Sparta did - and HOW they did it, was not cool. And they forget... IT'S A GAME!!

Happy hunting.

Laughing

Yatar Kindoki
Caldari
H.Y.D.R.A.
Posted - 2006.07.18 15:09:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: SigmaPi
Although my corp does not wish to be involved in any flames, I must make a statement in this thread.

We (Pandoras Mining Covenant) were approached by Yatar with inquiries about joining our corp, and our alliance. After some talks and deliberation, Yatar was decided to be let into PMCO. Luckily, Crandall and Rogue confronted a fellow Director in PMCO and shared much info on this situation. Yatar was kicked less than 10 minutes after he was let into PMCO. Although we donít know the full truth on any of this, Yatar was untruthful when confronted with evidence against him. Crandall and Rogue sent us a log of a convo with Yatar and, soon there after, it was decided to kick Yatar from the corp.

I advise all to look out for this char. I donít know one way or another about this issue, but he was untruthful about many situations and I would like no one else to fall victim to any possible problems.

SigmaPi
Director, Human Relations
Pandoras Mining Covenant
RISE Diplomat


I respect the 'sensitive' nature of your newly found alliance. To hire an x-enemy from 'traitor' sparta alliance probably wouldn't sit well with your membership. Nevertheless, you're misinformed about the situation. I look forward to working with you in the future.


Rutoo
Gallente
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2006.07.18 15:18:00 - [20]
 

Look What i started :SYARRRR!!YARRRR!!

Crandall Six
Caldari
Black Knight Buccaneers
Sparta Alliance
Posted - 2006.07.18 20:28:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Yatar Kindoki
Woohoo I'm famous!

The bad decision to stab our long-term friends, D2 & Friends, did not sit well with me. Destroying all the hard work I put into the corporation and alliance was unnacceptable. It was never meant to be a pirate corporation.

In turn, I handed CEO position to a reputable member, however I took retribution in the form of some isk and a pos(I was CEO at the time). Many assets remained, the corporation was not 'cleaned out'. While this does not sit well with some members, their decision to destroy our way of gameplay is unnacceptable. I gave up pirating over a year ago.

They can call me traitor etc etc etc. But they were the ones that decided to 'traitor' against D2 & long term friends.

Friends change in this GAME, but what ISTC & Sparta did - and HOW they did it, was not cool. And they forget... IT'S A GAME!!

Happy hunting.

Laughing


It is funny how now you lump ISTC with Sparta, when right after you took the isk you said that while you had no intention of staying with Sparta/ISTC, you also had no intention of screwing ISTC over. Amazing how that changes all of a sudden.

As for all your hard work for the corporation and alliance...umm what? It has been months since you have done anything with anyone in ISTC, much less Sparta.

No one in ISTC liked the decision Sparta made, and you seem to have a serious lapse in memory regarding this issue. We voted no to turning on D2, and as it turns out apparently the only ones to do so.

Oh wait, you would actually have to be involved to know this.

BTW: Yes we all know it is a game, this is simply part of it as you will notice that the entire post is in character.

Mandrake Knight
Gallente
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2006.07.18 21:13:00 - [22]
 

I dont understand how a CEO can be considered a corp thief. After all, they are the CEO. As a corp member you have a personal responsibility to protect your own property, and as CEO the corp's property is essentially the CEO's property.


Crandall Six
Caldari
Black Knight Buccaneers
Sparta Alliance
Posted - 2006.07.18 23:05:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Mandrake Knight
I dont understand how a CEO can be considered a corp thief. After all, they are the CEO. As a corp member you have a personal responsibility to protect your own property, and as CEO the corp's property is essentially the CEO's property.




While I don't entirely agree with that, he had already resigned that post and took the money afterwards.

So he was no longer CEO when he took the isk.

ATOM ANT
Minmatar
ACME INK
Posted - 2006.07.18 23:25:00 - [24]
 

Heh.. I love good intense Eve Politics.

As for Yatar Kindoki, As usual, I'm left scratching my head.

It appears that corp thief does not apply to Yatar. As CEO,
He was entitled to the whole lot.

Since he didn't clean house, and the corp is not in dire straights,
It appears that the real issue is the smack in the face received by
those left holding what was left of the corp assets.

Since yatar has control of the shares, has he really left the corp?

Ah well. Stay tuned for the next wrenching twist in the great
universe of EVE.
Very Happy

Sergeant Spot
Caldari
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
Posted - 2006.07.19 11:21:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Yatar Kindoki
Edited by: Yatar Kindoki on 18/07/2006 20:32:44
Woohoo I'm famous!

The bad decision to stab our long-term friends, D2 & Friends, did not sit well with me. Destroying all the hard work I put into the corporation and alliance was unnacceptable. It was never meant to be a pirate corporation. As CEO, I decided to disband the entity.

A few members wished to continue the corporation, thus:

In turn, I handed CEO position to a reputable member, however I took retribution in the form of some isk and a pos(I was CEO at the time). Many assets remained, the corporation was not 'cleaned out'. While this does not sit well with some members, their decision to destroy our way of gameplay is unnacceptable. I gave up pirating over a year ago.

They can call me traitor etc etc etc. But they were the ones that decided to 'traitor' against D2 & long term friends.

Friends change in this GAME, but what ISTC & Sparta did - and HOW they did it, was not cool. And they forget... IT'S A GAME!!

Happy hunting.

Laughing


You don't take assets as "retribution" (as you said above) from your own Corp EVER.

Unless you decide you want to live the life of an untrustable individual that steals from his own mates.

Better to leave assets that you have a valid but only partial claim to, than to flush your own reputation down the toilet.

Long ago I had an UGLY fight within BNC over some real life crap that was stupidly brought into the game. So ugly that I left the corp for a solid year. Yet even at my most rightous rage, even so much as taking the Bookmarks I had worked on for the Corp never even occured to me. (The issue argued about is now happily dead and buried, as it should be.....)

You don't EVER take assets from your own corp as "retribution". Not EVER. (unless you like a lonely game, or only playing with folks you can't trust).

Even in games, Character counts. Whines of "its a game" don't count.

Sergeant Spot
Caldari
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
Posted - 2006.07.19 11:22:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Mandrake Knight
I dont understand how a CEO can be considered a corp thief. After all, they are the CEO. As a corp member you have a personal responsibility to protect your own property, and as CEO the corp's property is essentially the CEO's property.




That has to be one of the stupidest statements ever made on the Eve forums.

Kozak
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.07.19 12:10:00 - [27]
 

Wow, you guys have no idea what a corporation is! Eve corps are modeled after real corporations. A CEO gets a paycheck, he doesn't own the factories, the blueprints or any corp assets. He gets to sit in the big chair, that's all. Taking corp isk is stealing from the corporation as an entity. If the corporation exists after you leave, then you are a theif. If you don't want to be branded a thief, kick everyone from the corp first, then take all the assets, then quit.

Otherwise, you are a Thief.

Lufio II
Amarr
Marangrio Space Services Inc.
Posted - 2006.07.19 12:45:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Kozak
Wow, you guys have no idea what a corporation is! Eve corps are modeled after real corporations. A CEO gets a paycheck, he doesn't own the factories, the blueprints or any corp assets. He gets to sit in the big chair, that's all. Taking corp isk is stealing from the corporation as an entity. If the corporation exists after you leave, then you are a theif. If you don't want to be branded a thief, kick everyone from the corp first, then take all the assets, then quit.

Otherwise, you are a Thief.


Interesting oppinion. However, it mostly happens to be the case within EVE (in my awareness) that the CEO (or whatever board of leadership has been established) also holds the majority of the shares (tho that depends heavily on internal organisation), so in most cases CEO = Owner of the whole lot fits quite well. As I doubt that many of you not in that corp know the inner workings of ISTC, I would be careful with claiming the CEO a thief, especially since it seems that ISTC still seems to be alive (altho having less assets now). It was well within his power as CEO to just kick everyone out, cleared the Standings with whomever and rebuild that corp from scratch (certainly a more drastic measure).

So unless there have been agreements in effect within ISTC that would regulate ownership clearly, Yatar wouldn't be a thief. Giving him hangar access if he would apply to a corporation of mine is a complete different matter, on the other hand I wouldn't be making any differences there, people would get the access they need to get their task done, not more, not less.

Just my 2 cents...

Del369
Caldari
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2006.07.19 13:10:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: jeepfreek
I am a long time member of BKB and newly to ISTC. What Yatar/Coasterx did to us was not so much the isk involved, it was the friendship/brotherhood he betrayed. He has also been banned from any other of the BKB groups in other games we play. We lost a brother this past week. One that his true colors came to light.

roflmfao, i was wondering if it was one and the same, then i saw your post Jeep, class stuff.
S! BKB Razz

Sergeant Spot
Caldari
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
Posted - 2006.07.19 18:14:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Lufio II
Originally by: Kozak
Wow, you guys have no idea what a corporation is! Eve corps are modeled after real corporations. A CEO gets a paycheck, he doesn't own the factories, the blueprints or any corp assets. He gets to sit in the big chair, that's all. Taking corp isk is stealing from the corporation as an entity. If the corporation exists after you leave, then you are a theif. If you don't want to be branded a thief, kick everyone from the corp first, then take all the assets, then quit.

Otherwise, you are a Thief.


Interesting oppinion. However, it mostly happens to be the case within EVE (in my awareness) that the CEO (or whatever board of leadership has been established) also holds the majority of the shares (tho that depends heavily on internal organisation), so in most cases CEO = Owner of the whole lot fits quite well. As I doubt that many of you not in that corp know the inner workings of ISTC, I would be careful with claiming the CEO a thief, especially since it seems that ISTC still seems to be alive (altho having less assets now). It was well within his power as CEO to just kick everyone out, cleared the Standings with whomever and rebuild that corp from scratch (certainly a more drastic measure).

So unless there have been agreements in effect within ISTC that would regulate ownership clearly, Yatar wouldn't be a thief. Giving him hangar access if he would apply to a corporation of mine is a complete different matter, on the other hand I wouldn't be making any differences there, people would get the access they need to get their task done, not more, not less.

Just my 2 cents...


Share ownership means a CEO has "ABILITY" to take whatever he wants from Corp hangars. It does NOT mean "ownership".

Unless dumped into a public access hangar and not put in a labled can, Corp members retain "ownership". I'm not talking about "legality", I'm talking about what is True.

My single biggest collection of "stuff" is in a PW protected Station Warehouse in a Corp Hangar (It not my most valuable stuff, but theres a good amount of it). It is not corp property, and it is not CEO property. It is mine.

"Ownership" predates law.
Law was created in large part to support "ownership" (the other large part of law was to protect life and limb....)
"Ownership" was not created by Law, Ownership Law was created by Ownership.

The ability "to" do something is not the "right" to do it.


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