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Blacklight
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.07.17 17:21:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
Anyway, I suspect that most of the eve-o community is rather surprised to see that we are actually quite literate and intelligent, thank you, now that we're allowed to post and aren't represented by idiotic alt-posters. Admittedly, we have a politically incorrect sense of humor and are HORRIBLE AWFUL NEWBIES who dare attack 'established alliances', but we're hardly the fools eve-o has been blithely making us out to be for the past year.


I think what amazes some of us is that as you are to a large degree quite literate, intelligent and not the fools you have blithely been made out to be you continue to allow Remedial to lead the corporation.

My guys would lynch me and rightly so if I had those kind of temper tantrums.

Floppy Disk
Minmatar
The First Foundation
SOLAR FLEET
Posted - 2006.07.17 17:24:00 - [242]
 

Eh, no one's perfect.

Vice Royy
Amarr
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2006.07.17 17:24:00 - [243]
 

Edited by: Vice Royy on 17/07/2006 17:27:44
Originally by: Darcuese
Edited by: Darcuese on 17/07/2006 08:56:15
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Darcuese
Edited by: Darcuese on 17/07/2006 08:13:57
Didnt read whole thread, didnt read whole log...but what i understude (i might be wrong) some ppl dont like Remm cause of the way he acted as dictator or something.

I dont get you guys. What kind of game you think you playing? Bridge with old grannies?

There is no democracy....only dictators with better or lesser skills with convincing their pilots that decision was made thanks to their opinionLaughing (others are only leaders untill first danger come close by)


This game need more ppl like Remm...plenty of polite and boring diplomats anyway all over space




He ovbiusly has some kind of WW2 tick, his ingame picture is Adolf ****** and tbh, he acts on his forums like him.
Same for some other goon alts out here, talking about euthanism and other stuff.

Its just disgusting.


Disgusting or not...this game is role play game. Plenty of space for all. And since it is a game it should be opened for all type of roles, IMO. When you consider that majority of pilots is above 18 and 21, then their mind should be strong enough for not taking some things granted (as some things that in RL are considered bad, this is a game where "evil" is and should be part of it). If you are disgust with somebody in game, go out, kill it and get down with it/him/her.

Internal behaviour (inside corp orm alliance) is different. Pilots have option to step out from corp alliance if the dont feel comfort with...or overthrow leadership.

But in the end this is a game...and "barbarian" sort of leadeship and acting is only "+" for game in global.

If you read something on local that you dont feel comfort with..close local or dont read. If you get evemail with crap writen all over...petition it.

But telling someone how they should act and play this game is not something positive for game its self. This is only my opinion however, and i dont have problems with RL issue brought in game where i have control to handle with such

And about tactics or insults...no point to argue about it. You have input and output. Everything in between is variaty of ppl and their aproach. Final results count however, rest is just for forum whoring


It is disgusting that man who is beloved by houndres of goons is teaking a portrait of Adolf ****** a man who ordered to kill milions ppl in Europe, who ordered to kill some ppl from my owm family, who ordered to kill few millions ppl from my country. HOW SHOULD I RESPECT SUCH PLAYER!? Its sick that someone is taking so much care about a COMPUTER GAME. Its sick when someone is posting a racist words on those forums (gues who). This game is for fun but i see that theres a such man as Remedial who is crosing the line. Lets have fun, lets fight each other, lets play the game but there are some limits.

Edit : I dont mind whole GS organisation and its idea/tactic etc but i would be happy if there was someone other in thir ceo place.

The Mittani
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.07.17 17:36:00 - [244]
 

Originally by: Blacklight

I think what amazes some of us is that as you are to a large degree quite literate, intelligent and not the fools you have blithely been made out to be you continue to allow Remedial to lead the corporation.

My guys would lynch me and rightly so if I had those kind of temper tantrums.



This is probably for two reasons:

1. We have more contact with Remedial than eve-o does, and thus know him better, flaws included, and most of us like him despite those flaws. Also, the issues which most of eve-o has with Remedial (his total, absolute lack of political correctness) isn't seen as a bad thing by goons; if anything, we exalt it.

2. GoonSwarm is larger than any one man. Some people in GS don't like Rem, but they love their fellow bees. It's not all about one individual, it's about goons working together with goons (and their friends) in EVE to accomplish concrete goals.

In any organization of 2500 people, you'll like some people, and you'll dislike others. You may love flying with a certain FC, though you may dislike the CEO; you may love your CEO and hate his directors.

Personally, I think it trivializes the efforts of the average bee to try to turn every discussion of the Swarm into a discussion of Remedial. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the leak of our internal discussions shows nothing new; directors and CEOs frequently fight and those fights get intense. Especially if half the directorate are attorneys, and attorneys aren't known for backing down, ever.

Gareth Brynne
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 17:44:00 - [245]
 

Edited by: Gareth Brynne on 17/07/2006 17:46:24
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Snowden Vel
Originally by: Joerd Toastius

tl;dr fighting outnumbered at your own POS is not likely to win you or any other alliance many brownie points


The reason we're bringing it up is the fact we're being accused of "blobbing" and lag exploits at battles where we've been outnumbered, rather than a desire for brownie points, though I do think our fleet commanders did an excellent job of maximizing the effects of the POS's support.


Oh, sure, your POS defence strategies have been pretty good. Even given complaints about grid issues etc which could just be put down to very smart positioning, you've acquitted yourselves very well there. I just don't feel that POS defense fights are really relevant to discussions about fighting outnumbered, because it seems slightly unfair to ignore the starbase. But eh, ymmv.


This makes no sense. It's like saying the Russians didn't really win the Battle for Moscow because they were better adapted to fighting in the cold weather than the Germans. That sucks for the Germans, but they weren't adequately fit to fight in those conditions and they lost because of it. Just because the Russians had the advantage doesn't take anything less away from their victory against what many perceived as a greater opponent.

EDIT: This is my GS main.

The Mittani
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.07.17 17:44:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: Vice Royy

big rant about Remedial, certain mustachioed dictators


Goon humor is not for everyone, and will often make the heads of non-goons explode with outrage and incomprehension.

I made an analogy earlier in this thread about meth-addicted 'special needs' children being shoved into a bus, handed firearms, and being brainwashed into launching themselves bodily at our foes. I suppose that I am a mean and sadistic person for finding the mental image hysterically amusing, but I do.

But hey, some people think 'The Family Circus' is funny. Takes all kinds, neh?

Ismern
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 17:44:00 - [247]
 

Edited by: Ismern on 17/07/2006 17:44:59
All I have to say about this whole thing (aside from that slight killboard comment, which wasn't bad in and of itself in the slightest, but apparently between posting it and being here at work caused lots of smack and caused forum moderators to delete all of the posts pertaining to it) is that I have been enjoying myself immensely during the engagement.

I have enjoyed how we have endured against all odds and against all criticisms, but I know the fight is far from over. I would almost be disappointed to see D2 just roll over and leave, but at least I know that's not going to happen.

Bring on the fight guys, I still have ships to lose.
----------------

Dianabolic
Gallente
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.07.17 17:45:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
Personally, I think it trivializes the efforts of the average bee to try to turn every discussion of the Swarm into a discussion of Remedial. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the leak of our internal discussions shows nothing new; directors and CEOs frequently fight and those fights get intense. Especially if half the directorate are attorneys, and attorneys aren't known for backing down, ever.


I agree, it does trivialise it - and until he changes his attitude and adjusts it, at least in eve and on these forums, so that WE can put up with it, you can rest assured that we will continue to do so.

It takes many men to be a success, it takes one man to Profanity Edited Out -Abdalion it up - and that one man, in your case, is the man in charge - and he does so regularly.

Calenth
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 17:50:00 - [249]
 

Edited by: Calenth on 17/07/2006 17:52:27
Originally by: Vice Royy

Edit : I dont mind whole GS organisation and its idea/tactic etc but i would be happy if there was someone other in thir ceo place.


Very, very few people other than Remedial would've ever had the megalomania and vision (really a fine line between the two) to even attempt to take over 0.0 space with swarms of newbies barely out of their trial accounts, much less to actually succeed in the attempt. You take the bad with the good. We respect Remedial for his vision, leadership, and tactical expertise, and then we call him a [censored] in private when he Profanity Edited Out -Abdalion up. Nobody's perfect, but there would never have been a Goonfleet in the first place without Remedial's leadership.

The Mittani
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.07.17 17:53:00 - [250]
 

Originally by: Dianabolic

I agree, it does trivialise it - and until he changes his attitude and adjusts it, at least in eve and on these forums, so that WE can put up with it, you can rest assured that we will continue to do so.


Then it is a good thing that we run our organization such that we goons enjoy it, rather than focusing on attempting to garner the acceptance of the eve-o public community. We don't recruit from the public, and never have; if we did, we wouldn't be able to behave like goons in an environment of our own choosing.

Also, you don't have to worry about dealing with Remedial on the forums behaving in a fashion that offends you; he got permabanned. ^_^

kia anna
Minmatar
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.07.17 17:54:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: Vice Royy

About a photo
Seems to me, Remedial is a despotic ruler demanding and receiving the adoration of countless followers, prone to irrational out-burst but possessing a disturbing charisma enabling him to send his minions to their certain deaths again and again to achive victory…

Surely you can see the similarities here, lets not get too uptight over what is essentially self depreciating humor on his part.

<Insert joke about him overruling his generals, overextending his forces and getting his ass kicked here> =)

Calenth
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 17:57:00 - [252]
 

Edited by: Calenth on 17/07/2006 17:59:38
Originally by: The Mittani
2. GoonSwarm is larger than any one man. Some people in GS don't like Rem, but they love their fellow bees. It's not all about one individual, it's about goons working together with goons (and their friends) in EVE to accomplish concrete goals.

In any organization of 2500 people, you'll like some people, and you'll dislike others. You may love flying with a certain FC, though you may dislike the CEO; you may love your CEO and hate his directors.

Personally, I think it trivializes the efforts of the average bee to try to turn every discussion of the Swarm into a discussion of Remedial.


I want to echo this for emphasis. Fundamentally, GoonSwarm is about carving a niche and home in Eve for our shared community. Remedial has been the driving force behind making that ideal a reality, but we respect him for his drive in pursuit of that ideal, rather than the reverse.


He does screw up sometimes, but so does everyone else. Fundamentally, though, he's working for the same goal that every other GoonSwarm member is in Eve -- carving out a home for Goons -- and that's why we respect and follow him.

Shachar
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 18:13:00 - [253]
 

Edited by: Shachar on 17/07/2006 18:16:43
Originally by: Blacklight
I think what amazes some of us is that as you are to a large degree quite literate, intelligent and not the fools you have blithely been made out to be you continue to allow Remedial to lead the corporation.

My guys would lynch me and rightly so if I had those kind of temper tantrums.



I think a good sterotype of goons would be:
Intelligent
Arrogant
Twisted sense of humor
Enjoy the irony of acting like idiots


Remedial is a good leader because following him blindly lets us act out stereotypes three and four. Remedial is also a good leader because his instability is matched by his brilliance.

Dreiden Kisada
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 18:15:00 - [254]
 

Edited by: Dreiden Kisada on 17/07/2006 18:21:40
Originally by: Vice Royy

It is disgusting that man who is beloved by houndres of goons is teaking a portrait of Adolf ****** a man who ordered to kill milions ppl in Europe, who ordered to kill some ppl from my owm family, who ordered to kill few millions ppl from my country. HOW SHOULD I RESPECT SUCH PLAYER!?



Followed by:

Quote:
Its sick that someone is taking so much care about a COMPUTER GAME.


Just pointing it out.


Edit: I realized as I went out for a smoke this could be taken personally. I don't even know this guy, and its not an attack. Just pointing out the contrary nature of the statements.

The Mittani
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.07.17 18:17:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: Dreiden Kisada

Just pointing it out.


I didn't have the heart to, it would have been too easy. Embarassed

Phrixus Zephyr
Gallente
MEK Enterprises
Posted - 2006.07.17 18:22:00 - [256]
 

Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 17/07/2006 18:21:59
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: The Mittani
Personally, I think it trivializes the efforts of the average bee to try to turn every discussion of the Swarm into a discussion of Remedial. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the leak of our internal discussions shows nothing new; directors and CEOs frequently fight and those fights get intense. Especially if half the directorate are attorneys, and attorneys aren't known for backing down, ever.


I agree, it does trivialise it - and until he changes his attitude and adjusts it, at least in eve and on these forums, so that WE can put up with it, you can rest assured that we will continue to do so.


You first.

Vice Royy
Amarr
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2006.07.17 18:34:00 - [257]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Dreiden Kisada

Just pointing it out.


I didn't have the heart to, it would have been too easy. Embarassed


I dont care about this game but i care about ppl about memory of those who died in war, who died in concentration camps. Im really sensitive about such things no matter in which game in which place. Thanks for humor its really needed here in that case. I wanted to point something here - behavior of your great leader who done so good thins to his corp - and ive done it. I wish you luck with such man.


Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.07.17 18:39:00 - [258]
 

Originally by: Darcuese
Edited by: Darcuese on 17/07/2006 08:56:15
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Darcuese
Edited by: Darcuese on 17/07/2006 08:13:57
Didnt read whole thread, didnt read whole log...but what i understude (i might be wrong) some ppl dont like Remm cause of the way he acted as dictator or something.

I dont get you guys. What kind of game you think you playing? Bridge with old grannies?

There is no democracy....only dictators with better or lesser skills with convincing their pilots that decision was made thanks to their opinionLaughing (others are only leaders untill first danger come close by)


This game need more ppl like Remm...plenty of polite and boring diplomats anyway all over space




He ovbiusly has some kind of WW2 tick, his ingame picture is Adolf ****** and tbh, he acts on his forums like him.
Same for some other goon alts out here, talking about euthanism and other stuff.

Its just disgusting.


Disgusting or not...this game is role play game. Plenty of space for all. And since it is a game it should be opened for all type of roles, IMO. When you consider that majority of pilots is above 18 and 21, then their mind should be strong enough for not taking some things granted (as some things that in RL are considered bad, this is a game where "evil" is and should be part of it). If you are disgust with somebody in game, go out, kill it and get down with it/him/her.

Internal behaviour (inside corp orm alliance) is different. Pilots have option to step out from corp alliance if the dont feel comfort with...or overthrow leadership.

But in the end this is a game...and "barbarian" sort of leadeship and acting is only "+" for game in global.

If you read something on local that you dont feel comfort with..close local or dont read. If you get evemail with crap writen all over...petition it.

But telling someone how they should act and play this game is not something positive for game its self. This is only my opinion however, and i dont have problems with RL issue brought in game where i have control to handle with such

And about tactics or insults...no point to argue about it. You have input and output. Everything in between is variaty of ppl and their aproach. Final results count however, rest is just for forum whoring



/Signed and couldnt agree more

The world of politices evolves and has many diff flavours , every one follows the trend that seems fit to his or her points of ideas and way to play , if eve was any diff then it would have been borign as hell and 0 wars sicne every one would be following one polciy no matter what is . Some policies can lead to victory and soem can lead to defeat so the result will be the only judge not what ppl think of it , if remdial's way gets Goon to be a power house and for exampel defeat another major power house then i think many ppl will be bittign their toungues but if he fails they will all howl around him liek starving wolves.

ISD Serathu


Caldari
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
Posted - 2006.07.17 18:42:00 - [259]
 

Folks, please keep polite and on-topic here.

Let's not turn this into a discussion about a certain WW2 leader please as such things are not welcome on these forums due to it being a topic of politics and one that many still feel particularly strongly about.

Thank you!ugh

Giganticus
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 18:52:00 - [260]
 

The best part of all this is that during the last month - ie. when Goonswarm was kicking D2 ass left, right and centre - Remedial wasn't in charge. It was Hoegaarden.

Hoegaarden has now been kicked out of Goonswarm in order to preserve Remedial. So what we are all asking is, what's more important to Goonswarm, success or Remedial? So far everyone's chosen Remedial. Good times for D2 on the horizon.

Wanmeili
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 18:56:00 - [261]
 

Originally by: Giganticus
So far everyone's chosen Remedial.


We've chosen GoonSwarm, unequivocally.

Giganticus
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 18:59:00 - [262]
 

Originally by: Wanmeili
Originally by: Giganticus
So far everyone's chosen Remedial.


We've chosen GoonSwarm, unequivocally.


That would come under the "success" option. So not Remedial.

Frederick Skinner
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 19:02:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: Giganticus
The best part of all this is that during the last month - ie. when Goonswarm was kicking D2 ass left, right and centre - Remedial wasn't in charge. It was Hoegaarden.

One thing you missed is that the battle that turn all this around and we killed dreads, Rem was FC.

I'm willing to ride this out. You are not going to "spook" me.

Arath Veduran
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 19:06:00 - [264]
 

Originally by: Giganticus
Originally by: Wanmeili
Originally by: Giganticus
So far everyone's chosen Remedial.


We've chosen GoonSwarm, unequivocally.


That would come under the "success" option. So not Remedial.

I will stand behind whatever leader GoonSwarm has. I will hop into any ship I can afford, join a gang of other goons, and fight our enemies wherever they go. Whatever goes on in the higher levels of command, there will always be countless goons who just want to fight and die and make GoonSwarm a great alliance. I am one of those goons, and I'm damn proud of it.

Wanmeili
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 19:06:00 - [265]
 

Originally by: Giganticus
Originally by: Wanmeili
Originally by: Giganticus
So far everyone's chosen Remedial.


We've chosen GoonSwarm, unequivocally.


That would come under the "success" option. So not Remedial.


If you follow the exact events of the war, our "success option" is attributed firmly to the many hardworking members of GS proper.

But it is funny how you're sitting at the tail end of your thread saying "hey, guys, guys, pay attention to me... Drama. Drama drama. Drahmahhhhh! Listen to me, c'mon guys! Drama?"

terminal mehmet
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 19:10:00 - [266]
 

Edited by: terminal mehmet on 17/07/2006 19:12:15
Originally by: Giganticus
Originally by: Wanmeili
Originally by: Giganticus
So far everyone's chosen Remedial.


We've chosen GoonSwarm, unequivocally.


That would come under the "success" option. So not Remedial.


You are attempting to draw an answer out of one of our members that would support your argument, which seems to be aimed at hatred towards our CEO. Arguing this with you would be pointless as it would only fuel your agenda. I will simply make a statement on my view of how the alliance views this issue, as contrary as that may be. GoonSwarm does not think that ditching our leader would lead to success. GoonSwarm does not think that keeping our leader would lead to failure. Individual pilots might think differently; but, we are the sum of our collective will and ambition and not just the political opinions of our pilots. Our success or failure will be determined on the battlefields ahead, not in the backrooms of alliance or corporate discussion.

These opinions are my own, formulated by my own observations and not necessarily the view of my corporation or alliance.

edit: fixed a typo

Giganticus
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 19:12:00 - [267]
 

Edited by: Giganticus on 17/07/2006 19:14:21
Drama... created by Goonswarm directors (mainly Remedial), leaked by Goonswarm directors (I don't actually know which one), and posted by yours truly. Yet I'm the drama *****?

I posted this purely for comic relief. And to be honest, it was pretty damn funny Laughing. It just had drama connotations.

*snip*

Please do not discuss bans or moderation on the forums - Serathu ([email protected])

Won Ton
Gallente
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.07.17 19:15:00 - [268]
 

Originally by: Giganticus
That would come under the "success" option. So not Remedial.


To be fair, Hoegaarden would never have been in a position to lead us into Cloud Ring without Remedial's vision and effort to build this corporation from the ground up. I don't think you'll find many bees who won't agree that Hoegaarden did a great job, but I also seriously doubt you'll find any that doesn't believe Rem is a tactical genius and more than capable of leading us to the promised land.

Wanmeili
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.07.17 19:16:00 - [269]
 

Originally by: Giganticus
Drama... created by Goonswarm directors (mainly Remedial), leaked by Goonswarm directors (I don't actually know which one), and posted by yours truly. Yet I'm the drama *****?

I posted this purely for comic relief. And to be honest, it was pretty damn funny Laughing. It just had drama connotations.


You sure are. We've been having interesting, rewarding discussions with other board members the whole thread.

Then suddenly you pop back in, saying "heyyyy, I have some total conjecture candy here, kids! Come join me in my drama van! Your mom said it was okay!"

Cmd Woodlouse
Minmatar
moon7empler
Ev0ke
Posted - 2006.07.17 19:16:00 - [270]
 

Edited by: Cmd Woodlouse on 17/07/2006 19:16:27
Originally by: Won Ton

You were never there. You were in the hospital with a collapsed lung, by your own account. How would you know either way what happened?


ZOMG I CAN COMPARE TWO DIFFERENT KILLBOARDS REGARDING KILLS OF BOTH SIDES!

How much more stupid can you be???

Oh and im back to hospital tomorrow for another 3 weeks, looking forward to your next lies when im back Evil or Very Mad


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