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Piertaien Enanama
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.27 18:24:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Piertaien Enanama on 29/06/2006 16:24:50
Edited by: Piertaien Enanama on 29/06/2006 16:02:22
Edited by: Piertaien Enanama on 27/06/2006 18:34:32
Edited by: Piertaien Enanama on 27/06/2006 18:33:37

There are some ideas how to add fun to the game and make kill rights an important part of the universe.
Most detailed ideas are in posts 6, 7 and 12 so far.

Originally by: Piertaien Enanama
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
Most of the people that die to unlawful combat are victims of piracy, and they don't tend to fight alot.

We definetely need kill rights transfers. Some ppl will even pay for them, i bet, rather then get paid for executing. More fun for both parties :)




Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Piertaien Enanama

We definetely need kill rights transfers....


Yeah this would open up a whole new dimension to the game, specially in empire where you actually can travel to find someone pretty easy. Sounds like a very cool feature to me.




Originally by: Nyabinghi
For newer players killrights are completely useless. Basically you got a month to bring up your skills and buy a ship to match that of your aggressor which 95% of the time is impossible. You also have to find your aggressor logged in long enough and isolated enough that you can actually sucessfully execute your killright, good luck with that.

Seriously, if you hang around the Concord office long enough you can hear them snickering at you after they hand you the killright document.





Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
it would be interesting if you could transfer kill rights by selling it to the BOunty Hunter mission list Twisted Evil

Now all we need are seeker droids and Arakyds so the fun can commence YARRRR!!




Originally by: Ratzap
I personally think things would be a hell of a lot more fun if you could sell or give kill rights to another person (pass on only once for obvious reasons) - like designating a champion.

That would open up a whole new merc occupation: haulers and newbs who get suicided could hand over the kill rights to a selected person and they get an evemail when the right is cashed in so they have proof to pay.

Ratzap




Originally by: DoctorDanny
Killrights should be tradable.




Originally by: Sergeant Spot
Kill Rights gained by most miners at belts are useless.

In truth, Kill Rights need to be transferable. It would give bounty hunting real meaning.





Originally by: Gabby05
Kill rights should be just that, the ship and the capsule i dont see why a pirate can pod you but you can only return the favour by only destroying his ship.



Please, sign here if you feel it will work

Blind Man
Caldari
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2006.06.27 18:38:00 - [2]
 

WTS killrights for me, contact my alt for prices. Laughing

Piertaien Enanama
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.27 18:52:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Blind Man
WTS killrights for me, contact my alt for prices. Laughing


Sure, there have to be scammers too, half of the fun would be off otherwise Laughing

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2006.06.27 21:36:00 - [4]
 


I really think its about time we get transferable kill rights, yeah. Would make mercs pretty popular. Wink

Faeden Pain
Posted - 2006.06.27 22:04:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Faeden Pain on 27/06/2006 22:04:25
Brilliant Idea.

If people are worried about exploitation, just make it so that rights can only be transfered between accounts...not between alts. Then its no more exploitable than someone with a bounty getting a buddy to pod them, for the bounty.

Lojik
Enlightened Industries
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
Posted - 2006.06.27 23:28:00 - [6]
 

how would this work for mercs ?

i mean in paying is someone said i want yo to kill this person and i have killrights for transfer would the merc pay the employer for teh killrights and get paid when the killmail reaches the employee or would the emplyee give the killright to the merc and pay less for the kill or more ?

we need a system where people can place a bounty hunt on a person.

Here is my idea for a system:

e.g you go into a station next the bounty section of the missions tab in the station there is button "hire a hunter"

next a box pops or slides up and you enter this data.

Name of person to be hunted (search feature, person must have negative sec)

payout amount for Ship kill, (a sub section comes up where the person can select payouts for different ship types)

'button' - "pod kill needed to fullfill contract"
Payout for pod kill (pod kill must be a final blow from hunter to comply and a minimum of 5mil isk is required to be entered)

Time for Completion (time in days from agreement of contract, if contract is not completed the contract is palced back in the market till the remaining time availabele runs out)

Time available (Time the contract is displayed on the market)

button - "add killrights' (costs a fee to add it but hunters would choose your contract more over others if it showed a kill right was included)

Multiplier count. (this is the amount of time you want the contract to be filled, e.g if you made a contract for lets say someone to kill me "Lojik" but only for battleships owned by me and set the amount for payout as 10Mil you could multipliy it by 10 times meaning 10 people can try to complete the contract and a total comes to 100Mil + station fee's.

when the data is entered and you agree to the fee's the information can be displayed like the corier missions and bounty hunters can pick and choose there missions. a good desplay could be:

Name of prey, Contract Payout, ship kill payouts , Pod kll Needed, Time to Complete, time till ends, Multiplier
E.G
Lojik , 10,000,000ISK , BS - 10,000,000ISK , NO , 5 days , 90 Days , 3
Total price for thois contract would be:
10Mil for contract completion + 10Mil bonus for a BS kill x 3 = 60Mil
a fee from the station of 1% (cheaper in low secrity stations, the fee is dependant on the time till ends, e.g every 30 days its 0.25% ontop of total cost) = 600k
Total cost of contract is: 60,300,000ISK
300k get taken at end of contract

If the contract is taken 3 times during the 90 days and twice it was completed WITH a BS kill and once without the 10Mil will get refunded and 300k for fee's.

The ship bonus feature is to stop people taking a contract to kill a friend as you can set the general contract cost as low as you want.

Also you can add a pod required to kill.

E.g
Name of prey, Contract Payout, ship kill payouts , Pod kll Needed, Time to Complete, time till ends, Multiplier
E.G
Lojik , 100,000,000ISK , BS - 10,000,000ISK , YES , 14 days , 30 Days , 1
HAC - 15,000,000ISK,
Total price for thois contract would be:
100Mil for contract completion + 15Mil bonus for a HAC kill x 1 = 115Mil
a fee from the station of 0.3% (cheaper in low secrity stations, the fee is dependant on the time till ends, e.g every 30 days its 0.25% ontop of total cost) = 345k
Total cost of contract is: 115,172,500ISK
172,500 gets taken at end of contract

if at end of contract; the kill did not include a BS or HAC kill 15Mil is refunded if it included a BS kill 5Mil is refunded, If the pod is not killed the 100Mil is refunded.

Just my idea

Piertaien Enanama
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.28 09:52:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Piertaien Enanama on 28/06/2006 11:40:17
Edited by: Piertaien Enanama on 28/06/2006 10:07:28

Thank you for ideas, Lojik. Seems a bit complicated to me, but who knows what devs would end up with?

From my point of view, at first it might be as simple as TRANSFER.

1. Open kill rights tab
2. Right click --> Transfer
3. Selected Kill right marked as "Transferred" in the list and you cant transfer it again
4. An inspectable item appear in your personal hangar, similar to certificate with some distingushing feature, like skull or something. Some fee might be deducted from your account, marked as "Mission cost"
5. Offer it to a player directly, place it on escrow or just throw it in corp hangar.

Now what the bounty hunter does:

6. Inspect item. Shows who killed whom, when and where, and, ATTENTION!, ship destroyed and full list of equipment and cargo. Should prevent a fair share of scam attempts.
7. Accept trade and throw certificate in your cargo hold
8. Do what you want, trade it to someone else or just carry it with you.
9. Right click --> Activate
10. Your kill rights list now shows a newly aquired license to kill, marked as "Contracted" or something.
11. Original owner of killright received an email, informing him that killright was accepted
12. Seek and destroy Very Happy
13. Pod if you wish YARRRR!!
14. The copy of killmail goes straight to original owner of killright
15. Extort reward from original owner of killright Laughing

A lot of freedom, still plenty of room to scam and such, but relatively easy to code and understand how it works. Wont hurt to have it ingame.

Dimitrius Zabelle
Posted - 2006.06.28 10:36:00 - [8]
 

Ok, so you log on a newly created trial account. Warp to a belt in low sec and wait to be ganked.

Do this a few times with a few alts.

Move the kill rights to your main and your corps mains. Then go kill the people free of charge.

Yeah.... thats not gonna work.

Piertaien Enanama
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.28 11:15:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Dimitrius Zabelle
Ok, so you log on a newly created trial account. Warp to a belt in low sec and wait to be ganked.

Do this a few times with a few alts.

Move the kill rights to your main and your corps mains. Then go kill the people free of charge.

Yeah.... thats not gonna work.


I got your point. Yes, no sec hit and such. But, honestly, i see little difference. You could gank those ppl right in belts, without the hassle of getting your alts killed and than chasing them around the galaxy. The only real difference is: you can gank these ppl in highsec, something they "deserved" by killing your alts or whomever they killed.

Think twice when killing or watch your back in highsec, thats simple.

Main purpose of kill right transfer is to get your buddies "avenge your death", i cant see why it wont work. Bounty contracts and such comes just along, although could become a part of fun.

Lord Drachenfels
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.28 11:32:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Dimitrius Zabelle
Ok, so you log on a newly created trial account. Warp to a belt in low sec and wait to be ganked.

Do this a few times with a few alts.

Move the kill rights to your main and your corps mains. Then go kill the people free of charge.

Yeah.... thats not gonna work.

If you only allowed kill rights to be moved (not copied) Then the game system would protect noobs (and alts) And IMO that is a fair trade off for killing people for pleasure and not for money! All other aspects in eve are centered around earning money why not endorse it in PvP piracy as well?

Piertaien Enanama
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.28 11:45:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Lord Drachenfels
If you only allowed kill rights to be moved (not copied) Then the game system would protect noobs (and alts) And IMO that is a fair trade off for killing people for pleasure and not for money! All other aspects in eve are centered around earning money why not endorse it in PvP piracy as well?


Thank you for pointing this out. I'm not sure could it be exploitable otherwise, but i think even what you offer is better than we have, so i've updated my post with your suggestions.

Lord Drachenfels
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.28 12:52:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Lord Drachenfels on 28/06/2006 13:14:14
Concord should be (according to the story line) neutral to all factions
(Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar)

So why not create a system like this:
If your ship has been destroyed or you have been podded by a person with a sec. standing of -1 (like todays bounty rules) or less then you can negotiate with Concord to have them create a 'mission'. You would have to pay Concord to create this mission for you maybe starting with 5 mill (Or whatever the person is willing to pay for the killing). If such mission allready exists in the Concord archives (Some other has created a similar mission before you) Then the mission payments should be added together (eg. 5mill for the first and maybe 12 mill for the next results in a total mission payout of 17 mill etc.)

Pirate hunters (or maybe Bounty hunter corporations) with a positive standing (or sec rate) to Concord could then sign up for a particular mission at a concord office. The pirate in question and all 'mission creators' gets a mail informing that the mission has been picked up by the Bounty hunter (or Bounty hunter corporation)

The Bounty hunter (or Bounty hunter corporation) only are allowed to kill the pirate without sanction from Concord. Several people or corporations can sign up for the mission but only one can complete the mission!

They succeed by delivering the (dead frozenWink) body of the sanctioned pirate to a Concord office and recieves payment for the mission.

If the pirate in question redeems it self by getting a positive standing with Concord (or sec rate) And pays a fine (Maybe equal to the current mission value) Concord automatically cancels the contract and people are payed back their mission creation fee.

Why this is a good idea:
1) You can freely kill a known pirate without Concord interference.
2) Random killing the Pirate does not give you any money.
3) All parties (Victim, Pirate, Bounty hunter) are all aware of the contract status.
4) Only victims (shipkill/podkill) can create or add to a Concord mission.
5) There is a way out for the pirate by redeeming them selves.
6) This system are very dificult to exploit.


Just some suggestions comments are welcome Smile

EDIT:
This suggestion should be an addition to the existing Kill rights system. As some sort of player created 'Agent missions' system. Maybe with a skill under Social called Bounty hunting where you can ask for as many bounty hunting missions as you have levels +1
Anayway it is just suggestionsRazz

/Lord Drachenfels

Gabby05
Amarr
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.06.28 12:53:00 - [13]
 

Kill rights should let you pod pirates the same they do to you.

Piertaien Enanama
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.28 14:27:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Gabby05
Kill rights should let you pod pirates the same they do to you.


hehe, double post, Gabby, you're already quoted in original post from the start Wink

Kala Veijo
Veto Corp
Posted - 2006.06.28 18:54:00 - [15]
 

Sure, i could use some more killrights. Too bad that you can shoot me anyway with rights or not ugh

Murukan
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.06.28 19:19:00 - [16]
 

problem with this is people could go out with an alt and rack up a bunch of killrights and then transfer them to their main to go enjoy a little rapage on pirates who killed their alts.

Ryoko Hunter
Posted - 2006.06.28 19:24:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Lord Drachenfels
Edited by: Lord Drachenfels on 28/06/2006 13:14:14
Concord should be (according to the story line) neutral to all factions
(Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar)

So why not create a system like this:
If your ship has been destroyed or you have been podded by a person with a sec. standing of -1 (like todays bounty rules) or less then you can negotiate with Concord to have them create a 'mission'. You would have to pay Concord to create this mission for you maybe starting with 5 mill (Or whatever the person is willing to pay for the killing). If such mission allready exists in the Concord archives (Some other has created a similar mission before you) Then the mission payments should be added together (eg. 5mill for the first and maybe 12 mill for the next results in a total mission payout of 17 mill etc.)

Pirate hunters (or maybe Bounty hunter corporations) with a positive standing (or sec rate) to Concord could then sign up for a particular mission at a concord office. The pirate in question and all 'mission creators' gets a mail informing that the mission has been picked up by the Bounty hunter (or Bounty hunter corporation)

The Bounty hunter (or Bounty hunter corporation) only are allowed to kill the pirate without sanction from Concord. Several people or corporations can sign up for the mission but only one can complete the mission!

They succeed by delivering the (dead frozenWink) body of the sanctioned pirate to a Concord office and recieves payment for the mission.

If the pirate in question redeems it self by getting a positive standing with Concord (or sec rate) And pays a fine (Maybe equal to the current mission value) Concord automatically cancels the contract and people are payed back their mission creation fee.

Why this is a good idea:
1) You can freely kill a known pirate without Concord interference.
2) Random killing the Pirate does not give you any money.
3) All parties (Victim, Pirate, Bounty hunter) are all aware of the contract status.
4) Only victims (shipkill/podkill) can create or add to a Concord mission.
5) There is a way out for the pirate by redeeming them selves.
6) This system are very dificult to exploit.


Just some suggestions comments are welcome Smile

EDIT:
This suggestion should be an addition to the existing Kill rights system. As some sort of player created 'Agent missions' system. Maybe with a skill under Social called Bounty hunting where you can ask for as many bounty hunting missions as you have levels +1
Anayway it is just suggestionsRazz

/Lord Drachenfels


Why should bounty hunting be limited to those people who have a positive security status? That is one of many direct contradictions of the CONCORD's current policy. Remember that bounty-hunting (NPC) is the only way for a player to raise their security status. In CONCORD's eyes, there is no difference between bounty hunting an NPC and bounty hunting a player pirate - sec status should be raised in both cases, and the bounty should be open to anyone.

As for the part I've bolded, if you can freely kill someone, they ought to be able to freely kill you. Besides, CONCORD has never tollerated the murder of a citizen, and anyone with a sec-status higher than -5.0 is still considered a citizen. What you are asking is for CONCORD to completely turn it's back on this policy and instead adopt one of "Commit one murder and it's suddenly okay for vigilantees to kill you. Too bad..."

But, even disreguarding CONCORD, in order for there to be a balance in this, a bounty hunter should be free game to any pirate the hunter is able to kill (for some reason a blue flashy, or some kind of new overview icon [like the skull for persons with a bounty on their heads] sounds very nice).

Lojik
Enlightened Industries
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
Posted - 2006.06.28 20:55:00 - [18]
 

yer i ghess my method was a bit over the top but i'd like to see more than just transferable kill rights, i wanna see a system like the player courior missions but for bounty hunting and i think anyone can take them on no matter of sec, but you have to negative sec to be a target of a bounty hunt mission.

Lojik

Alimida
Posted - 2006.06.29 04:13:00 - [19]
 

Just putting my two cents in but I really like this idea and would like to see the dev's opinion on it.

Lord Drachenfels
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.29 07:20:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Ryoko Hunter

Why should bounty hunting be limited to those people who have a positive security status?

Becourse you cannot your self be an outlaw and serve the law at the same time Razz I am talking about requesting a permission from Concord to kill one specific pirate!

Originally by: Ryoko Hunter
That is one of many direct contradictions of the CONCORD's current policy. Remember that bounty-hunting (NPC) is the only way for a player to raise their security status. In CONCORD's eyes, there is no difference between bounty hunting an NPC and bounty hunting a player pirate - sec status should be raised in both cases, and the bounty should be open to anyone.

Yea that is the way that it is today! Easy exploidable and it makes no sense that Concord will pay you money after they have ganked you becourse you have killed a known pirate in empire space Shocked
Originally by: Ryoko Hunter

As for the part I've bolded, if you can freely kill someone, they ought to be able to freely kill you.

Why is that?!? They have allready killed 'inocent' peoble and it is not all in eve that can freely kill the pirate only those that have signed up for a bounty hunter contract with Concord can freely kill the pirate
Originally by: Ryoko Hunter
Besides, CONCORD has never tollerated the murder of a citizen, and anyone with a sec-status higher than -5.0 is still considered a citizen. What you are asking is for CONCORD to completely turn it's back on this policy and instead adopt one of "Commit one murder and it's suddenly okay for vigilantees to kill you. Too bad..."

Nope they have not.. That is the change i am suggesting Wink Besides if the pirate thinks that there are to many dangerous people hunting them they can just get a positive standing and pay the fine to Concord as i described in my post. Then they are free to go Smile
Anyway the current system tolerates that if you have been killed then you are allowed (Without Concord repercussions) to kill the person.. I am just suggesting a way to transfer kill rights Wink Which is what this thread is all about Razz

Originally by: Ryoko Hunter

But, even disreguarding CONCORD, in order for there to be a balance in this, a bounty hunter should be free game to any pirate the hunter is able to kill (for some reason a blue flashy, or some kind of new overview icon [like the skull for persons with a bounty on their heads] sounds very nice).

I dont understand your logic.. You kill sombody and according to Concord you have violated the law. Why should Concord allow you to kill the persons that are 'upholding the law' (Bounty hunters with a contract on the pirate in question) Anyway IMO should the pirates be allowed to defense themselves just as it is today. But the Bounty hunters should have the advantage of making the first move YARRRR!!


Sorry for my bad english.. Wink

/Lord Drachenfels

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.06.29 14:17:00 - [21]
 

Insurance payout should go to the killer with the killrights (as an additional bounty). Ship's owner gets no insurance if killed by someone with killrights.

Solves a lot of problems.


Grewal
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.06.29 14:58:00 - [22]
 

I think the kill right system works fine... I have about 10 kill rights atm down from 13 about a week ago, and most of them were from people who ganked me in groups a couple of times.

A couple of them are from pirates that I will have to catch in a smaller ship before I can do anything about it. For the most part though the griefers/gankers were all in cruisers and battlecruisers so I am slowy getting rid of them. :-) Ive earned a bit from bounties and loot already as well.

I am slowly picking them off when I can single one of them out and get my revenge. Kill rights work fine for me.

Piertaien Enanama
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.29 15:44:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Grewal
I think the kill right system works fine...
I am slowly picking them off when I can single one of them out and get my revenge. Kill rights work fine for me.


I have no doubt they work fine FOR YOU. Sadly, not many victims of unlawful combat can make use of them. But the improvement in question is not meant to help the victims only. Indeed, it is more suitable for your type of man. For bounty hunters AND pirates.

All three types should benefit from it. Victims get "revenge", hunters and pirates get fun. The whole idea is all about fun.

Nihn Lemai
Posted - 2006.06.29 15:54:00 - [24]
 

Why not the ideas forum?

Piertaien Enanama
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.29 15:56:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Lojik
....i think anyone can take them on no matter of sec, but you have to negative sec to be a target of a bounty hunt mission.



I think that would be fair game if you could be targeted regardless of your sec status. The law is the same for everyone, isnt it? Wink

It is unfair to allow positive sec "villains" to commit crimes while punishing others.
As a sidenote: it is also bad to force people to lower their sec status just for the right to participate in the game Wink Some people like the idea of being hunted by someone (not by everyone, of course).

Piertaien Enanama
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.29 16:24:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Nihn Lemai
Why not the ideas forum?


Ups.... Good idea..... Very Happy

Maybe forum moderator could move this thread to ideas forum?


 

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