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blankseplocked Bloggers #13, TomB's System Scanning
 
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CCP TomB

Posted - 2006.06.27 20:08:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: F'nog
If we use more than one probe at a time, does that increase our chances of success and accuracy?


Now there's something I forgot to mention;

  1. Probes can not be deployed within scan radius of another probe owned by the same person

  2. Probe strength stacks with other probes if an object is located in both probe radiuses

  3. Inaccuracy is stacked as well with even freakier results, "stacking" a probe with high inaccruacy and another one with low inaccuracy won't give the same results as if the low inaccuracy would have given you

Rel Zi
Posted - 2006.06.27 20:09:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Avernus
Originally by: Noriath
Originally by: Avernus
I know a guy who can bust safespots using the directional scanner in the space of around 10 minutes... basically a master of the art using the most basic of tools available to him. It's not just a matter of training skills, it's an actual skill that he's developed over the course of time (nod to Cyther)

Now ability like that is rare; yet you expect to be able to do something like that in any ship, where everyone else who doesn't have the abilities Cyther has, have instead invested considerable time training in-game skills.



Let's see him bust an off grid safespot, or catch someone who is at a safespot and MWDing towards something at 3000m while prealignet to warp as soon as anyone shows up, or someone who has a dozen safespots and simply moves between them every 5 minuites... In fact, once you have created 3-4 safespots that are far enough apart you can create hundreds more just using your original safespots as warp locations...

Your initial criticism was centered on the ability to make a quick easy ss, and not being able to counter that... the guy I described can counter that, everybody else trains for it. Making a deep safe isn't quick. Guys with their speed up can get busted; guys using several ss can get busted. The guys that are popping up new ss as they go and being highly active in their evasion techniques, probably don't even deserve to get caught, because they are putting in the effort to evade you properly.

It's not always about finding them at their ss, so much as occasionally creating the right conditions for them to come to you. If all this angst is for the benefit of two interceptors who harrass your haulers, or a small strike group, try getting creative and finding ways to make them engage rather than fruitlessly wasting the time of your corpmates and allies hunting them. If it's an entire fleet you can't get to come out and play..... who the hell are you fighting?


And to nitpick! Very Happy

"...is at a safespot and MWDing towards something at 3000m while prealignet to warp..."

You don't measure speed in m. That's for volume.

And yes, I think it's dead funny. And yes, it made me feel better about myself to point this out to you and others. Very Happy

CCP TomB

Posted - 2006.06.27 20:10:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Noriath
So basicly safespotting remains the Uber and anyone who has managed to create an off grid safespot 10 warps out from any point of the system is sill impossible to find and kill?

There will be a probe with almost unlimited range, it's not the best but it will be able to find ships that have gone to far into space. And it will be able to work alone, like all probes will.

Avernus
Gallente
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2006.06.27 20:19:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: TomB
Originally by: F'nog
If we use more than one probe at a time, does that increase our chances of success and accuracy?


Now there's something I forgot to mention;

  1. Probes can not be deployed within scan radius of another probe owned by the same person

  2. Probe strength stacks with other probes if an object is located in both probe radiuses

  3. Inaccuracy is stacked as well with even freakier results, "stacking" a probe with high inaccruacy and another one with low inaccuracy won't give the same results as if the low inaccuracy would have given you


Very cool Very Happy

I know in your blog you specifically mention Recons... but are the original covert ops frigs going to be compatible with these new recon probe launchers and any other various upgrades?

Kitty O'Shay
Tharsis Security
Posted - 2006.06.27 20:27:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: TomB
Now there's something I forgot to mention;

  1. Probes can not be deployed within scan radius of another probe owned by the same person

  2. Probe strength stacks with other probes if an object is located in both probe radiuses

  3. Inaccuracy is stacked as well with even freakier results, "stacking" a probe with high inaccruacy and another one with low inaccuracy won't give the same results as if the low inaccuracy would have given you



So you're saying that you only get the good stacking when an object is within the radius of 2 (or more) probes that have been launched by different people?

i.e. team scanning? Shocked

The Enslaver
Viziam
Posted - 2006.06.27 20:30:00 - [36]
 

Absolutely incredible! That image is amazing!

I love this.

G Dabak
Magellanic Itg
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.06.27 20:35:00 - [37]
 

Make the scan results show up on the seamless map in some way that lets you identify which is which, and you'll have a winner.

Avernus
Gallente
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2006.06.27 20:42:00 - [38]
 

Slightly off topic, but when zoomed out like that, please show gang members in system, enemies in visual range of gang members, etc... 'warp to member at 15km' option as well perhaps; being able to use the zoom out as a tactical layout would rock Very Happy

Sarmaul
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.06.27 20:42:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Sarmaul on 27/06/2006 20:43:43
Originally by: TomB

[list=1]
  • Probes can not be deployed within scan radius of another probe owned by the same person

  • Probe strength stacks with other probes if an object is located in both probe radiuses



  • How can probes stack together when finding a single target if they can't overlap?

    Edit: Also, any chance of a space sonar so we know roughly what direction to start probing in, or will the virtually unlimited range probe act as that?

    Sovy Kurosei
    Amarr
    Thundercats
    RAZOR Alliance
    Posted - 2006.06.27 20:46:00 - [40]
     

    Originally by: Sarmaul
    How can probes stack together when finding a single target if they can't overlap?


    The probes scan radius can overlap, but the probes itself cannot be in the scan radius of the other probe.

    Miss Overlord
    Gallente
    Doomheim
    Posted - 2006.06.27 20:48:00 - [41]
     

    Im liking this actually - most focus has been on combat - these new exploration (finding hidden loot etc) im assuming it will get its own little scan field to scan for.

    Good all round as for finding cloaked ships mmm not sure on that they are invisible for a reason. But then again.

    Scorpyn
    Caldari
    Infinitus Odium
    Posted - 2006.06.27 20:49:00 - [42]
     

    Edited by: Scorpyn on 27/06/2006 20:50:08
    Seems like the universe will start to feel a lot bigger with Kali. It will be interesting.

    Any plans for utilizing the space between solar systems some time in the (very) distant future?

    Noriath
    Posted - 2006.06.27 20:50:00 - [43]
     

    Well, I hope that this new system will make busting safespots *a lot* easier and faster. Currently it is really not a lot of fun to hunt someone because if they know what they are doing it is next to impossible to catch them.

    I am glad this is getting reworked, but at the same time I am somewhat sceptical of the entire system in its very basics. I still think it's not fair that making safespots is something anyone in any ship can do, but finding them on the other hand is a very specialized job.

    The entire safespot system allows single ships to occupy whole gangs for hours at a time without firing a single shot and just makes being on the defense extremly frustrating. Enemies can come in, safespot and lock down operations for hours purely by being there. Once they see probes on the scanner then simply log off most of the time.

    It just heavily favours the hunted over the hunter, and there has to be a point where when you get a whole gang trying to finding a single intruder eluding a vastly superior force in their own system should not be so easy. There is just no good way to stop people from going into your core systems in small fasts ships and leading you on a wild goose chase for several hours only to log off when you almost have them.


    Well anyways, if I still have your attention TomB, I would like to throw a sugestion out there, being that in systems where you have sovreignty you can install some kind of deep space listing post at a POS that acts as an extremly powerful long range probe for everyone who has access to the station.
    Throw the defense a bone here, I mean it's one thing if you can play hide and seek in an unoccupied system, but if the system is yours it really shouldn't be so easy for an enemy to operate in it without having sufficient forces to slug it out with the defenders.

    Tiuwaz
    Minmatar
    No Paradise
    Posted - 2006.06.27 20:50:00 - [44]
     

    i am looking forward to this, actually for me this is kali's #1 <3 feature

    Sarmaul
    Brutor Tribe
    Posted - 2006.06.27 20:50:00 - [45]
     

    Originally by: Sovy Kurosei
    Originally by: Sarmaul
    How can probes stack together when finding a single target if they can't overlap?


    The probes scan radius can overlap, but the probes itself cannot be in the scan radius of the other probe.


    thanks Embarassed

    Jim McGregor
    Posted - 2006.06.27 20:58:00 - [46]
     


    I cant express enough how happy this feature makes me. Very Happy

    Im looking forward to this more than anything else in Kali 1. Finding people have always been a real hassle in Eve, and making it easier is just fantastic for everyone who likes pvp. Best addition ever to this amazing game. God damn it... just...fantastic. YARRRR!!

    With seemless map and improved scanning, this game will be dangerously addictive to play.

    R3dSh1ft
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Posted - 2006.06.27 21:09:00 - [47]
     

    I would also like to know about the possibility of scanning for a cloaked ship

    CCP TomB

    Posted - 2006.06.27 21:15:00 - [48]
     

    Originally by: R3dSh1ft
    I would also like to know about the possibility of scanning for a cloaked ship

    Cloaked ships will be scanable, but they won't get uncloaked if they are found on the scanner.

    Avernus
    Gallente
    Paragon Fury
    Cascade Imminent
    Posted - 2006.06.27 21:17:00 - [49]
     

    Edited by: Avernus on 27/06/2006 21:24:58
    Edited by: Avernus on 27/06/2006 21:22:11
    Originally by: Noriath
    Throw the defense a bone here, I mean it's one thing if you can play hide and seek in an unoccupied system, but if the system is yours it really shouldn't be so easy for an enemy to operate in it without having sufficient forces to slug it out with the defenders.

    That would actually be very cool. It would give a rather tangible bonus to defending fleets within a heavily POS'd system (which would likely signify a vital system for the defenders).

    Edit: meant to state that the above would refer to a POS module that would extend the benefits of probes for ships... could have different sizes of the 'scanner' that would be nearly equivilant to various ranges and strengths for the coming probes. Ex: Small scanner on a pos could have the similar range and ability of a 3AU Snoop.

    Edit again: Just occured to me that the above could result in the various overlapping bonuses that TomB was mentioning by having different corps in possesion of the POS's within the alliance... sovereignty bonus sort of stuff.

    R3dSh1ft
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Posted - 2006.06.27 21:22:00 - [50]
     

    Originally by: TomB
    Originally by: R3dSh1ft
    I would also like to know about the possibility of scanning for a cloaked ship

    Cloaked ships will be scanable, but they won't get uncloaked if they are found on the scanner.


    yay \o/ sounds good :)

    i got a reply from a dev, w00

    Elve Sorrow
    Amarr
    Celestial Apocalypse
    Posted - 2006.06.27 21:25:00 - [51]
     

    Will these new Probes be able to find off-plane safes? The ones made with the current Deepspace that just send you 100 AU straight up and such?

    R3dSh1ft
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Posted - 2006.06.27 21:27:00 - [52]
     

    Originally by: Elve Sorrow
    Will these new Probes be able to find off-plane safes? The ones made with the current Deepspace that just send you 100 AU straight up and such?


    Linkage

    Elve Sorrow
    Amarr
    Celestial Apocalypse
    Posted - 2006.06.27 21:29:00 - [53]
     

    Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 27/06/2006 21:31:30
    Originally by: R3dSh1ft
    Originally by: Elve Sorrow
    Will these new Probes be able to find off-plane safes? The ones made with the current Deepspace that just send you 100 AU straight up and such?


    Linkage


    [...]That have gone too far into space[...] says exactly nothing about my question. The current Deepspace Observer Probes can find them too - as long as you're on the same plane.

    I want to know if these can find off-plane safespots too. Essentially, if this works in true 3D or not.

    R3dSh1ft
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Posted - 2006.06.27 21:33:00 - [54]
     

    Edited by: R3dSh1ft on 27/06/2006 21:33:39
    The scan probes will have spherical range not pizza style like now

    Redd Sectoray
    Minmatar
    Brutor Tribe
    Posted - 2006.06.27 21:35:00 - [55]
     

    One word: awesome! Very Happy

    Avernus
    Gallente
    Paragon Fury
    Cascade Imminent
    Posted - 2006.06.27 21:42:00 - [56]
     

    Elve, looking at the screenshot provided, I'm thinking that even the deepest ss on a vertical plane isn't going to be untouchable with these upgrades to scanning that are in the pipeline. Just from the description given, sounds like there will be a probe available that has near unlimited range... while that would get you into the general area I doubt it would come close to putting you on top of someone 680AU straight up from the sun, but close enough to drop a Snoop and zero yourself in quite quickly.

    Monica Foulkes
    Veto Corp
    Posted - 2006.06.27 21:51:00 - [57]
     

    Does that screenshot mean that all backdrops from Kali and onwards will be the exisiting stars in the EvE galaxy plus a transparent cloud and not just some "suitable" texture image?

    Sarmaul
    Brutor Tribe
    Posted - 2006.06.27 21:53:00 - [58]
     

    Originally by: Elve Sorrow
    Will these new Probes be able to find off-plane safes? The ones made with the current Deepspace that just send you 100 AU straight up and such?


    Looking at the screenshot, the probes are full 3D spheres and not thin cylinders so hopefully they will be able to.

    Crobain Stalker
    Amarr
    Imperial Shipment
    Posted - 2006.06.27 21:57:00 - [59]
     

    Can you PLEASE improve the UI for scanniing asteroids for their ore <3

    At the moment its impossible to tell which asteroid has which amout of ore, except by untergetting ecerything and then retargeting via the scanner interface, which really blows.

    Steppa
    Gallente
    Posted - 2006.06.27 22:12:00 - [60]
     

    For the love of all that's holy...


    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

    give us the ability to "tune out" our gang-members' ships and ADD PILOT NAMES TO THE RESULTS. What possible use is the ship name in this case?


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