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Bruticus Prime
Posted - 2006.06.25 19:03:00 - [1]
 

So I just put 5x dual 425's on my Tempest - I know the larger the gun the worse the tracking, but they should still hit stuff right? Laughing

I just do missions - yes I'm a carebear so hug me - and basically from what I can tell if you want to do missions skip large guns altogether.

They don't seem able to track frigates at all - heading straight on @ a webbed frigate with it's transverse speed showing as less than 10 and I go thru about 60 or 70 rounds before I even dent the shield or show a damage message.

Don't know if it's the ammo (EMP) the guns or what - but I've never seen so many messages "glances off causing no real damage" during a combat. These were very chump change low level frigates nothing special and when I did hit I was doing 50-70pts or more each time, so don't think they had any hardeners, but it seems that the big guns just lack penetrating power - if that term applies.

I have motion prediction 5 and use a T2 tracking enhancer. Was definitely within fall off range or else I wouldn't have been able to web them.

Basically these same frigates webbed from 10k going head on would be dead with mediums in a few seconds - with large AC's it was a well over a minute for each kill. My medium and large ac skills are the same, no specialization yet.

So to the people with more experience than I - is this as good as it gets with large AC's???

PS - this isn't meant as a whiney item X sucks thread - I just want to know is this the limitations of the large ac's or am I missing something?

Thanks.

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.06.25 19:04:00 - [2]
 

Battleship guns don't hit frigates.

Get yourself one of these amd go pidgeon-shooting. You'll work it out

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.25 19:06:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: HippoKing
Battleship guns don't hit frigates.

Get yourself one of these amd go pidgeon-shooting. You'll work it out
Laughing

Matsuo Masato
Minmatar
Blood Corsairs
Posted - 2006.06.25 19:07:00 - [4]
 

web and keep at range 9km if that doesent work targetpaint them or use webbing drones and shoot them at 20-15km

Tiuwaz
Minmatar
No Paradise
Posted - 2006.06.25 19:11:00 - [5]
 

use small/medium drones for frigs and dont use tempest in lvl 1-2 missions ;D

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.06.25 19:17:00 - [6]
 

I have to ask:

how did you get a character who has motion predict 5 and never have used large guns before? Shocked

Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
Gilead's Bullet
Posted - 2006.06.25 19:29:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: HippoKing
I have to ask:

how did you get a character who has motion predict 5 and never have used large guns before? Shocked
If you want to be really generous, then I guess you COULD assume he trained it for cruisers...

Even if deep down inside you'll still know the answer is EBay.

Tyler Lowe
DROW Org
Brotherhood of the Spider
Posted - 2006.06.25 19:29:00 - [8]
 

If you want to hit frigs with large AC's, you need to both web and target paint them. It's easier to either let small drones rip them up, or use assault launchers.

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.06.25 19:32:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Originally by: HippoKing
I have to ask:

how did you get a character who has motion predict 5 and never have used large guns before? Shocked
If you want to be really generous, then I guess you COULD assume he trained it for cruisers...


or ever fought a BS and tried to stay alive Razz

Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Even if deep down inside you'll still know the answer is EBay.


I need to express my feelings about this, and I'm not the most sensitive of people, so I took inspiration from one of my emo idols for this response. I hope it does my feelings justice:

my tears go unwiped cuz i cry tears of sand and milk

Bruticus Prime
Posted - 2006.06.25 20:02:00 - [10]
 

Sorry no ebay here, I'm way too cheap.

I played for about a month, decided I really liked doing the missions so just kept doing lvl 1's while cranking up my learning skills. With perception 25 (thanks to a +3 implant as an agent offer) and Willpower 20, Motion Prediction 5 is only about 8 days. Of course my character isn't that well rounded - 7mil SP, 2mil is Learning and 2mil is Gunnery, the rest is all over the place.

Ya I kinda figured I was SOL with big guns. time to train up some drone skills (see what I mean about not well balanced)

Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
Posted - 2006.06.25 21:51:00 - [11]
 

It's perfectly balanced, guns the size of a house don't hit cars doing 400miles an hour very well.

Get a better webber. And use 2. if you really want to use large guns to take down frigates/destroyers. Alternatively use your other high slots/drone bay to do that for you while those large guns shoot down the larger stuff.

And motion prediction 5 isn't strange for someone that doesn't use large guns... got a char that hasn't used anything above small guns and has it at lvl 5.

Aeaus
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
Posted - 2006.06.25 23:13:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: HippoKing
Battleship guns don't hit frigates.

Get yourself one of these amd go pidgeon-shooting. You'll work it out


I beg to differ, but no BS weapon will hit frigates up close.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.25 23:15:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: HippoKing
Battleship guns don't hit frigates.

Get yourself one of these amd go pidgeon-shooting. You'll work it out


I beg to differ, but no BS weapon will hit frigates up close.


Put 1-2 web and they will pop though...

Akiman
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2006.06.25 23:22:00 - [14]
 

uhum

gfldex
Posted - 2006.06.25 23:33:00 - [15]
 

The sig radius of a frig is something about 35m. The sig resolution of a large gun is 400m while it's tracking is 0.0432rad/sec.

Your tracking at a frig will be:
0.0029925rad/sec=0.0432rad/sec * (35m/400m)

Let's say this frig is orbiting you at 8000m. You need to slow it down under 23.93 transversal to hit it.

You may mix painters and tracking comp or use two nice named webbers to increase your hitchance. With 2 painters and 2 tracking comps you will have better results because both items effect different values and thus fully stack on eachother then with 4 of only one kind.

chaos98
Posted - 2006.06.25 23:35:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: HippoKing
Battleship guns don't hit frigates.

Get yourself one of these amd go pidgeon-shooting. You'll work it out


heh, nice, if i want to go pigeon shooting though i will use a WWII 88mm flack cannon, just point in the general direction of the flock and grab an umbrella, cause it's gonna rain hard.

Triscuit
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.06.25 23:38:00 - [17]
 

1. Why are you using 5x and not 6x guns on a Tempest?

2. Your best bet to hit frigs is to either be approaching or keep at range around 15-25km and hope they're not moving much.

3. If you're not hitting them with your guns, launch drones. Have your guns hitting on the larger targets.

Malthros Zenobia
Posted - 2006.06.26 00:08:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: HippoKing
Battleship guns don't hit frigates.

Get yourself one of these amd go pidgeon-shooting. You'll work it out

But all the pigeons docked to pickup skillbooks.

Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.06.26 00:24:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: HippoKing
Battleship guns don't hit frigates.

Get yourself one of these amd go pidgeon-shooting. You'll work it out


I beg to differ, but no BS weapon will hit frigates up close.


Precision cruise? Razz

lollerskates
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
Posted - 2006.06.26 00:43:00 - [20]
 

Slap on two fleeting propulsion inhibitors (90%). It's pretty amazing how quickly stuff dies after being 99% webbed. You can't go wrong putting some nossies on as well to kill their survivability. I call it the "Bully Setup".

Akkarin Pagan
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.06.26 00:45:00 - [21]
 

I fly a Tempest on missions, and I have found that with fewer sp in gunnery, I can hit any frigate at 9k with 800mm acs as long as it is dual webbed (X5 p-types). Shortly after that I discovered that tracking comps are active modules, so I switched the one I had fitted on and hit the little frigate bastards even harder now :)

Hope this helps

Akkarin

Vathar
The Wings of Maak
Posted - 2006.06.26 01:08:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Akkarin Pagan
Shortly after that I discovered that tracking comps are active modules


That's when you start feeling stupid and look around to make sure nobody noticed you! Wink

Audri Fisher
Caldari
Burning Bush Enterprises
Posted - 2006.06.26 06:04:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: HippoKing
I have to ask:

how did you get a character who has motion predict 5 and never have used large guns before? Shocked


I supoose the fact that I also have rapid fire 5 and gunnery 5 is bad to? I don't even have medium hybrid to 4 yet. ( working on surgical strike and weapon upgrades 5 first)

Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Tague Corp
Posted - 2006.06.26 07:10:00 - [24]
 

Odd....I was popping Arch Angels with 800mm A/C's last night, using just a Target Painter and a webber.

At about 9000m and moving either directly away or toward them, large red chunks seemed to be appearing in their armour.

Uh....then I remembered I had drones [oops] and launched those instead, stopped firing and went to pick up the loot while the drones went about their business.

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.06.26 07:18:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: HippoKing
Battleship guns don't hit frigates.

Get yourself one of these amd go pidgeon-shooting. You'll work it out


I beg to differ, but no BS weapon will hit frigates up close.


yeah, I know its not entirely true, I just wanted to make the joke Razz
On the other hand, without LOTS of webs and you staying stationary, you won't ever kill a frig with ACs

Bruticus Prime
Posted - 2006.06.26 07:28:00 - [26]
 

Thanks for all the info so far, lots of good data here.

I've gone back to med guns for now, I'm only doing lvl 3 missions anyhow whiole I work up more skills, so mediums are good enough. But once I can put together a better fitting on my tempest I'll try the large guns again.

MOS DEF
0utbreak
Posted - 2006.06.26 08:40:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: HippoKing
Battleship guns don't hit frigates.

Get yourself one of these amd go pidgeon-shooting. You'll work it out

/me takes that gun and shoots venice with it.
BAM 1 million pidgeons dead.
Laughing

FFGR
Maza Nostra
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2006.06.26 08:48:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: HippoKing
Battleship guns don't hit frigates.

Get yourself one of these amd go pidgeon-shooting. You'll work it out


I beg to differ, but no BS weapon will hit frigates up close.


Precision cruise? Razz


Blasters on a Megat ? Razz

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2006.06.26 09:31:00 - [29]
 

I had no trouble hitting single webbed frigs with dual 650s in my tempest. The clues are using a fleeting webber (90%, any less leaves them too fast), T2 tracking comps or 30% target painters (tracking enhancer do next to nothing for ACs), and using the 'keep range at 9000' to move AWAY from them rather than approach them. This works against most inties. Not sure on those pesky gallente ones that orbit at 1000ish though, I use smartbombs for those.

wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
Posted - 2006.06.26 09:39:00 - [30]
 

tbh use drones


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