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blankseplocked [IPO #2] BMBE's 2nd IPO is now open. 118 (of 1000 shares) left
 
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TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2006.05.04 17:51:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: TornSoul on 28/05/2006 19:55:33
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
www.BIG-EVE.com/BMBE



Due to client demands, the BMBE coffins are nearing empty.
(read the (#3 - 2006.04) BMBE Shareholder Report for details on how the BMBE is doing)

<edit snip to allow for more text elsewhere>

For this reason a 2nd BMBE IPO is beeing launched, to raise a further 50B ISK.


This post will be updated to reflect the availability of shares


Currently available number of shares at 52M ISK each : 118(of 1000)

Updated : 28/05/2006 19:55:15


IPO #2 details for BIG Merchant Bank of EVE (BMBE)

  • The BMBE IPO #2 is offering shares for a total of 50B ISK.

  • Each share is valued at 50M/52M ISK. (see edit below)

  • Payment to be made to TornSoul

  • The shares are non-voting shares (You will have no say in BMBE business).

  • The shares will have dividend paid out on a monthly basis.

  • The dividend will consist of 50% of the profit the BMBE makes. The BMBE keeps the remaining 50%(staff payment)

  • Shares will be sold on a first come first serve basis - Counting from when the ISK is deposited (see below though).

  • Existing shareholders are given priority up until sunday may 14th 23:59



EDIT
Pricechange:
Current shareholders can purchase shares at 50M ISK until sunday may 14th 23:59.

Everyone else will have to pay 52M ISK per share from midnight today (sunday may 7th 23:59)


Further info about the BMBE can be found here:

(#1 - 2006.02) BMBE Shareholder Report
(#2 - 2006.03) BMBE Shareholder Report
[Press Release] The BMBE now accepts t2 BPO's as security.
(#3 - 2006.04) BMBE Shareholder Report (The BMBE starts making ISK)

---------------

For those not having the stomach to read the above BMBE links, it's worth noticing that the BMBE has a guranteed income for at least the next 7 weeks, possible upwards of 15-20 weeks (ie. guranteed dividend)

This not even counting any new loans made possible by the capital of this the 2nd BMBE IPO.

---------------

I have a list of the pilots who bought shares at the first IPO.
If you are among those pilots, you can start buying shares right away (by wiring the ISK to TornSoul

If you have acquired your shares later (buying them of another shareholder), you will have to prove to me that you are a current shareholder.
This is done by convoing me, and then transfering the shares (I'll transfer them back)
Best times for this are usually between 16:00 and 21:00 EVE-time (no gurantees though...)
This is unfortunatly the only way.
Read the *HOW TO* cash in your BMBE shares bit in (#3 - 2006.04) BMBE Shareholder Report for more info regarding this.

If you are *NOT* on my list, you are free to make your purchase right away as well, you do however run the risk of me sending back the ISK (and not getting any shares) should the current shareholders have bought all the shares before the end of the above mentioned deadline. Your choise. (it's however a way of making sure to be at the front of the queue, when the remaining shares are distributed)

Current shareholders will get their shares right away (as much as human possible), while non-current-shareholders will not recive shares until after the a

Meenaa
Posted - 2006.05.04 18:04:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Meenaa on 04/05/2006 18:05:19
So basically you are paying future dividends with another 50billion isk worth of shares?

Morbor must be grinding his teeth in anger

qrac
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.05.04 18:29:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: qrac on 04/05/2006 18:29:25
Originally by: Meenaa
Edited by: Meenaa on 04/05/2006 18:05:19
So basically you are paying future dividends with another 50billion isk worth of shares?

Morbor must be grinding his teeth in anger

Hi alt!
The thing is that BMBE doesn't have enough isk to cover the loans requested and thus BMBE has to raise more isk. Go back to the hole you came from.

Tsun
Caldari
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.05.04 18:53:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Tsun on 04/05/2006 18:55:00
hey TS,

first off, congrats that the eve bank finally is making profits :) i think the changes you made lately to the system (as using t2 bpos as security) gave the whole project a big boost. As a shareholder i am happy :)

about the new shares, first off, i will gladly buy some more to raise my current stock, but the only thing that worries me abit, is that finally now where the bank is making profit, the expected dividend for my existing shares for this month will be halved due to the new shares beeing sold now. Did you take this "problem" into consideration ?

Right now i'm, to be honest, rather inclined to vote against the increase of shares at the current shareholder vote, as an increase in shares will simply not increase the possible profit of the shares i currently hold (even if you do loan out the new 50B immediatly aswell).

Can you somehow sweep my obligations away ?

cheers,
Tsun

PS: i hope this whole post made sense to you :O

Naphtalia
Caldari
Veto Corp
Posted - 2006.05.04 19:12:00 - [5]
 

I agree with the previous poster, People that may have paid more then 50M for a share (for example 51M) may not like a new set of shares arriving for 50M (who won't have to wait 3months on dividend)

I think you could take away peoples obligations by issuing the new shares at for example 53M / share and thereby raising the capital / share and giving existing shareholders a chance to sell their stock for profit.

Elange4
Posted - 2006.05.04 20:12:00 - [6]
 

OK! I am pleased with the dividend, especially since it was only for 1/4 of the month. Does this mean, if the second IPO is fully subscribed and fully employed, that you are projecting 4% R-O-I per month (per share)?

IS there such thing as a non-voting share? I know you are not obligated to initiate a vote, but if there was one, every share would get to vote, yes?

Main Point: your stock price has finally risen on the EGSE index, so by re-issuing at the old price, you are efectively penalizing old shareholders of value; in addition to the two objections noted above. Perhaps the best solution IS to offer the second IPO at a higher price, as it seems like you will be able to employ more than the next 50 billion also, now that word has gotten out about what the BMBE offers...

Ofc a higher offer price means you cannot keep the buyback offer intact as it is. I do see your reasoning on it, but if we have all stuck with you so far, you are pretty secure with us anyway. Afterall, TornSoul, I bought stock because it was BIG, and so I knew it to be secure in the face of other (now many other) public offerings.

I know how hard it is to change a business plan or a public statement, but you just completed a successful and total overhaul of the BMBE methodology; this is nothing of the same magnitude, and it could shore up the BMBE position very much - in the wallet, in the (new) stock market, and with the customers' needs.

Cheers. --Elange4

Elange4
Posted - 2006.05.04 20:29:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Elange4 on 04/05/2006 20:29:29
Originally by: Meenaa
Edited by: Meenaa on 04/05/2006 18:05:19
So basically you are paying future dividends with another 50billion isk worth of shares?

Morbor must be grinding his teeth in anger


The issue is that the complete BMBE wallet is now employed like it was originally intended: there is now a need for financial logistics precisely because of BMBE's new successes...

If you didn't already know that. Rolling Eyes

Cheers. --Elange4

Exelsior
Xenobytes
Posted - 2006.05.04 21:19:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Exelsior on 04/05/2006 21:59:03
Dear TS,

According to my vote info on the current shares I hold, the vote whether to create or not to create more shares has not yet been cast (vote ends on 8th May in 4 days). Therefore, you do not know if this vote will go through or not.

Although you may have predictions as to whether it will or will not go through, that doesn't stop the fact that you have initiated selling of shares that have not yet been issued!

So explain to me how, if I send money to you for shares now, you will send me those shares?

Regards.

Mr Ratty
Ratty Corp PLC
Confederation of Independent Corporations
Posted - 2006.05.04 21:42:00 - [9]
 

well i've never had anything but good fortune dealing with Torn & BIG, the BIG deal got me on the road to riches!!

So the ratsters in.

Iskies sent for 10 shares (well, my industrial alt sent it).


Jannis Detari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.05.04 22:22:00 - [10]
 

I asked him this question myself today.

The vote to add additional BMBE shares will expire late on the 8th and I can then issue new shares to whomever buys shares if the vote is positive.

If the vote fails, we'll address any concerns of shareholders and work to resolve the issue. (Torn already said he'll return isk if needed to people.)

I however will be surprised if the shareholders do not wish to expand the capital in the BMBE as with all the capital tied up in the current loans, we are currently unable to loan out any additional isk, and any isk repayed may not be enough to satisfy loans for future customers.

BMBE needs some cash in a liquid form to keep customers comming back to us. Without this we risk loosing potential customers and the profits they bring.

Oh and since Eve has only one type of share, all shares have an equal vote. The only way a non voting share could be created would be to issue it out of game or with a 2nd corp.

ArtemisEntreri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.05.04 22:25:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Tsun
Edited by: Tsun on 04/05/2006 18:55:00
hey TS,

first off, congrats that the eve bank finally is making profits :) i think the changes you made lately to the system (as using t2 bpos as security) gave the whole project a big boost. As a shareholder i am happy :)

about the new shares, first off, i will gladly buy some more to raise my current stock, but the only thing that worries me abit, is that finally now where the bank is making profit, the expected dividend for my existing shares for this month will be halved due to the new shares beeing sold now. Did you take this "problem" into consideration ?

Right now i'm, to be honest, rather inclined to vote against the increase of shares at the current shareholder vote, as an increase in shares will simply not increase the possible profit of the shares i currently hold (even if you do loan out the new 50B immediatly aswell).

Can you somehow sweep my obligations away ?

cheers,
Tsun

PS: i hope this whole post made sense to you :O

I know you're asking Tornsoul but I'll give you an what-if:
If they give out more shares
more isk is going for the loaning purposes
more isk earned by BMBE
More isk possibly lended later on
therefore more dividends,
but for the next month this would sadly be true what you're thinking, that your shares will decrease in value, but possibly later on increase.
I am a shareholder and great that people are using this service (finally)

Btw hope this made sense

herot
Fortunis - Redux
Posted - 2006.05.04 22:38:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Naphtalia
I agree with the previous poster, People that may have paid more then 50M for a share (for example 51M) may not like a new set of shares arriving for 50M (who won't have to wait 3months on dividend)

I think you could take away peoples obligations by issuing the new shares at for example 53M / share and thereby raising the capital / share and giving existing shareholders a chance to sell their stock for profit.


I harbor some of the same concerns, and the suggestion of the second PO at a higher price per share seems resonable. This since with a now proven market concept (my opinion), forcast of future earnings should be weighed in when assessing a value on the already issued shares.


Exelsior
Xenobytes
Posted - 2006.05.04 22:47:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Exelsior on 04/05/2006 23:00:10
Originally by: Jannis Detari
I asked him this question myself today.

The vote to add additional BMBE shares will expire late on the 8th and I can then issue new shares to whomever buys shares if the vote is positive.

If the vote fails, we'll address any concerns of shareholders and work to resolve the issue. (Torn already said he'll return isk if needed to people.)

I however will be surprised if the shareholders do not wish to expand the capital in the BMBE as with all the capital tied up in the current loans, we are currently unable to loan out any additional isk, and any isk repayed may not be enough to satisfy loans for future customers.

BMBE needs some cash in a liquid form to keep customers comming back to us. Without this we risk loosing potential customers and the profits they bring.

Oh and since Eve has only one type of share, all shares have an equal vote. The only way a non voting share could be created would be to issue it out of game or with a 2nd corp.


Thanks for the answer.

The problem is, that you need cash floating around so that you don't have to turn down loan requests, which is perfectly understandable and good for customer relations.

But ultimately, cash that is laying around doing nothing isn't generating a profit, which hurts my interests.

Regards.

Exelsior
Xenobytes
Posted - 2006.05.04 22:55:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: ArtemisEntreri
Originally by: Tsun
Edited by: Tsun on 04/05/2006 18:55:00
hey TS,

first off, congrats that the eve bank finally is making profits :) i think the changes you made lately to the system (as using t2 bpos as security) gave the whole project a big boost. As a shareholder i am happy :)

about the new shares, first off, i will gladly buy some more to raise my current stock, but the only thing that worries me abit, is that finally now where the bank is making profit, the expected dividend for my existing shares for this month will be halved due to the new shares beeing sold now. Did you take this "problem" into consideration ?

Right now i'm, to be honest, rather inclined to vote against the increase of shares at the current shareholder vote, as an increase in shares will simply not increase the possible profit of the shares i currently hold (even if you do loan out the new 50B immediatly aswell).

Can you somehow sweep my obligations away ?

cheers,
Tsun

PS: i hope this whole post made sense to you :O

I know you're asking Tornsoul but I'll give you an what-if:
If they give out more shares
more isk is going for the loaning purposes
more isk earned by BMBE
More isk possibly lended later on
therefore more dividends,
but for the next month this would sadly be true what you're thinking, that your shares will decrease in value, but possibly later on increase.
I am a shareholder and great that people are using this service (finally)

Btw hope this made sense


Here's a what if situation. You own 10 shares, which constitues 10 out of 1000 which is 1%. Currently, the BMBE has 50b ISK in total (loaned out and not).

If another 1000 shares are released, unless you buy up another 10 shares, you're going to own 10 out of 2000 shares, which is 0.5% of the BMBE. So even though the BMBE working capital has increased twice, your share ownage as a percentage has halved. As a result, your personal dividends stay the same, but you lose influence on the BMBE through share ownage. This is also one of my problems, as i don't have the money to cash in on doubling my shares to keep my current ownage as a percentage.

If I understand correctly, 50% of profit is given out as dividends, and 50% paid as salaries. So the working capital would stay at 100 billion. Hence there is no way dividends could increase unless another factor changes.

I do wish to congratulate TornSoul and his team however on finally getting the BMBE to work and pay out dividends Very Happy

herot
Fortunis - Redux
Posted - 2006.05.04 23:14:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: herot on 04/05/2006 23:18:41
Another issue could perhaps be raised prior to casting vote on the issuing of new shares.
- Will the current split of earnings, between dividends to shareholders and managment cost e.i. "Salries to BMBE staff" be kept the same (50%/50%)?

Since one could argue that the effort of running the bussiness isn't linear to the working capital of the company.Smile


If changes are planned one alternative, could be to let a fraction of each months earnings instead increase the capital of of the BMBE (e.g. 1/3 to dividends, 1/3 to "salaries" and the final 1/3 increases the working capital of the corporation). Overtime this could perhaps make away with the need for further POs (/me instead forsees stock splits due to stock value getting ridiculously
highRazz).

Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.05.05 00:16:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Tsun
Edited by: Tsun on 04/05/2006 18:55:00
hey TS,

first off, congrats that the eve bank finally is making profits :) i think the changes you made lately to the system (as using t2 bpos as security) gave the whole project a big boost. As a shareholder i am happy :)

about the new shares, first off, i will gladly buy some more to raise my current stock, but the only thing that worries me abit, is that finally now where the bank is making profit, the expected dividend for my existing shares for this month will be halved due to the new shares beeing sold now. Did you take this "problem" into consideration ?

Right now i'm, to be honest, rather inclined to vote against the increase of shares at the current shareholder vote, as an increase in shares will simply not increase the possible profit of the shares i currently hold (even if you do loan out the new 50B immediatly aswell).

Can you somehow sweep my obligations away ?

cheers,
Tsun

PS: i hope this whole post made sense to you :O


Bully, he paid out all accumulated profit before the new IPO starts.

In any case I'll just double my holdings.

Auron Strife
Posted - 2006.05.05 04:58:00 - [17]
 

I do see this as a very interesting dilemma. The thing is, for the current investors, doubling the shares nets them no additional income, but dilutes their ownership of the company. But for the BMBE, since they get 50% of the take, they can potentially double their monthly income.

The ideal way to fix this would be to pay 100% of the money to the shareholders, and make BMBE own X shares in itself. This way, if they issue more shares, they dilute their own position in the company as well as everyone else's. Otherwise, if BMBE insists upon always getting half, and offering more shares, the value of the investment will drop significantly to anyone who isn't BMBE.

Elange4
Posted - 2006.05.05 09:16:00 - [18]
 

That is a good thought Auron.
atm BMBE is burdend with the history of its original business plan.

(I am not making any real arguments here: hopefully this will organize the discussion.)

3 points are relevant to to BMBE's position:
.
1. BIG itself owns a large part of BMBE due to the original IPO closing before it wsa fully subscribed;.

2. the original plan on loans offered a higher projected return on investment, so the offer looked much more atrractive for cash flow then.

3. the original loan method's returns were more variable (and also risky) with a much higher need for micro management - that meant that the mangement's payoff needed to be more-percentage wise.

********

So TornSoul's original idea for a stand alone company independent of BIG did not happen. And BIG probably did not *need* the money to continue or start profitable operations in EVE.

If BIG's profit from BMBE was only the profit from dividends, well they can just run more profitable private enterprises, as they have done for years. BMBE must stand on it's own AND pay BIG a good return for it to be appealing to leadership as well as shareholders...

But it does appear that the management fee is holding down returns for investors while unduly rewarding mangament.. Ofc BMBE management has also executed the first public company turn-around, and should be rewarded for it in some manner, just not by a long-term tax on cash flow.

--Elange4

Elange4
Posted - 2006.05.05 10:28:00 - [19]
 

:too late to edit;

btw the BMBE shares that BIG owns were Paid For by BIG;
dont get the idea that they were free, or that there was less than 50 billion raised by the original IPO.

Shimpu
Sensory Overload
Posted - 2006.05.05 13:10:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Shimpu on 05/05/2006 13:22:07
Originally by: herot
...Will the current split of earnings, between dividends to shareholders and managment cost e.i. "Salries to BMBE staff" be kept the same (50%/50%)?

Since one could argue that the effort of running the bussiness isn't linear to the working capital of the company.Smile



Very valid question Exclamation
Since the business model changed from micromanagement and small loans to huge loans I don't think 50% for the BMBE staff is acceptable anymore. You don't have to haul extreme numbers of stuff and manage hundreds of customers. As I see it, it's just some few customers with huge loans... which is why you need money so fast. 25% looks like a reasonable number tbh.


Shar Tegral
Posted - 2006.05.05 14:13:00 - [21]
 

2 shares purchased, no questions or complaints.

trong
Posted - 2006.05.05 18:24:00 - [22]
 

Any chance we're going to get answers from BMBE management or TS to the above posted questions?

Mahrin Skel
Imperium Technologies
Posted - 2006.05.05 19:38:00 - [23]
 

You have to look at short-term vs. long-term profitability. In the short term, an additional share issue reduces your dividend, and therefore your profitability. But in the long term, the establishment of BMBE as a reliable source of capital increases the profitability of the shares already issued, as well as reducing their risk (larger loan pool means less impact from defaults).

A new round of funding only dilutes your dividend until that capital has been loaned. Given how fast the first round went out once BMBE started accepting T2 BPO's as collateral, I doubt it will take longer than a month to loan out the remaining 50B. In fact, I can see "leveraged" BPO purchases becoming quite common, even standard. If you look beyond the first month, the dynamics of the investment are extremely favorable.

Me, I'm buying.

--Dave

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2006.05.05 19:50:00 - [24]
 

For you people out there saying "you'll not vote"
I do have one question
what makes you think that >50% of the shares were sold ;)
I would expect that 50%+ was held and 50%- was sold, and of the new ones created that they'll keep 50%.

Keep in mind that the "bug" in place doesnt allow anyone to see the total number of shares that are issued by a corp so if tornsoul hasnt kept up with it well then he may not know himself :).

Naphtalia
Caldari
Veto Corp
Posted - 2006.05.05 20:28:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: DeODokktor
For you people out there saying "you'll not vote"
I do have one question
what makes you think that >50% of the shares were sold ;)
I would expect that 50%+ was held and 50%- was sold, and of the new ones created that they'll keep 50%.

Keep in mind that the "bug" in place doesnt allow anyone to see the total number of shares that are issued by a corp so if tornsoul hasnt kept up with it well then he may not know himself :).


You can see all the historical votes for new shares if you look at the votes section of your share.

Anyways.. I don't like the same price for the 2nd IPO lets increase working capital, reward existing shareholders (that didn't get a return for 3months) and do the 2nd BPO at minimal 51M

Detaitiv
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.05.05 23:16:00 - [26]
 

How it should be done:

1 - Private offering to Original shareholders only open for one week at original price. This rewards those who took the leap of faith on BMBE and excludes those trying to gobble up 1 second hand share to get in on the private offering. There was considerable risk in tying up isk which may have realized 0 profit.

2 - auction shares remaining from private offering with starting bids of original price.

If IPO remains as above, I vote no. Several above objections are valid.

Exelsior
Xenobytes
Posted - 2006.05.06 06:40:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Naphtalia
Originally by: DeODokktor
For you people out there saying "you'll not vote"
I do have one question
what makes you think that >50% of the shares were sold ;)
I would expect that 50%+ was held and 50%- was sold, and of the new ones created that they'll keep 50%.

Keep in mind that the "bug" in place doesnt allow anyone to see the total number of shares that are issued by a corp so if tornsoul hasnt kept up with it well then he may not know himself :).


You can see all the historical votes for new shares if you look at the votes section of your share.

Anyways.. I don't like the same price for the 2nd IPO lets increase working capital, reward existing shareholders (that didn't get a return for 3months) and do the 2nd BPO at minimal 51M


Were no previous votes i'm afraid.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2006.05.06 13:20:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
2 shares purchased, no questions or complaints.

Let me correct my statement on this:

"Isk for 2 shares forwarded, no {etc., etc.}"

I haven't recieved any shares as of yet which is in accordance with Torn's press release. My reason for purchasing now is becuase I missed out on the first issuance entirely and I tend to like supporting BIG/Torn becuase ... well... I trust them.

Now I would also be upset by stock decisions without some before hand knowledge or ability to influence them. However BMBE is quite clear... they promise not to rip you off {A promise that you can count on} but these shares are "non voting" shares. Notice no vote?

However, as a defense for those who stood by BMBE from the beginning AND through its halting start, it would not be unfair, in the least, to have the current share price adjusted upward. The barest mininmum adjustment would be original issuance price plus the sum of any dividends issued. That would be the minimum.

The IDEAL situation would be as someone stated... BMBE creates a new issuance of shares and allows current investors to bid on them, at the minimum adjusted share price, and then any that are unsold are put up for auction. Highest bidder sets the share price in total. (Isn't that a Dutch auction or something? Not the savyest here)

BMBE is on that course for the most part... and to date Torn has always been shrewd AND fair. And considering the fact that shares, in Eve, really have no downward value pressure...

So my purchase is based upon the same reasons many of you purchased. Not just becuase of opportunity but trust. Torn/Big has mine and that's why I sent some isk ... no questions asked. (I have obviously changed the no comment part eh?)

TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2006.05.06 21:41:00 - [29]
 

I had planned to make a comprehensive post today, addressing the points raised. But time has run out on me...

I'll do it as the first thing tomorrow...

herot
Fortunis - Redux
Posted - 2006.05.06 21:47:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: TornSoul
I had planned to make a comprehensive post today, addressing the points raised. But time has run out on me...

I'll do it as the first thing tomorrow...


Thanks, no rush.Cool

(On faith I have already voted yes anywayRolling Eyes)


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