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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2006.05.05 07:44:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Originally by: Gronsak
signed. a racial t2 doing 9 points has a 41% chance of jamming a raven [22points]
within 21seconds you get to activeate it twice, giving you a 75% chance of jamming that raven within 20sec of lock! that one jam + the time to reloack means he id dead no matter what he does!

if you double the strength it means that within 21sec of lock [2cycles] a racial has 37% chance of jamming, which is much better!
if you combine this with ECM not breaking lock but stoping high slot mods from working [ie no need to relock which can be 8+ sec on a BS] then it might be ok!

also half the strength of tracking desrupters and damps


75% ? how did you come to that number ? the second cycle is independent, so you have again 41% chance to jam. within 21 seconds you HAVE to ativate it twice as it has a 20second cycle time.




if you throw a coin in the air there is 50% chance it gets a heads.
what is the chance that you get at lest 1 head in two throws? its 75%.

basicly the same math applies to jamming. 41% chance of jamming in first cycle. second cycle is 65% [ie that you jam them once during those two ccyles]
third is 81.34% of jamming them once within 3 cycles or 41seconds!!!!!

the numbers on this post are correct, the others where a "little off" since i did those without a calculator

basicly one mid slot with racial jammer gives you 81.3% chance of jamming the target once within 41seconds and that basicly gives the fight to you!

and those numbers are on a raven with ECM on a non ECM ship, the numbers are much higher useing ideal conditions ie jamming a gedden in a scorp!


yeah and the one cycle you MISS makes you dead (or very near that). 20 seconds in this game is still too much to have no defense for.

btw your example is flawed because you are trying to get ONE head in any number of throws. but with ECM you need ALL heads or you risk your ship and/or pod.

oh and please disregard the dominix from your examples ... it should get a jammer cycle time penalty (like -10% duration per level).

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2006.05.05 07:49:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Kalaan Oratay
Give all ECMs a 100 second cooldown accross the board.

ECM ships gain the additional attribute:
Electronic Warfare Skill Bonus: 15% bonus reduction to ECM cooldown per level.


My shortsightedness doesnt see any problems with this, does anyone else?




I could go with that if you make the cooldown 0 on ecm ships.

Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.05.05 08:31:00 - [123]
 

Put some HARM ammo in the game? T1, for all weapons, perhaps -50% range, mediocre damage, can fire at the ship(s) jamming you while you're jammed, gets major damage bonus if the target ship is unsuccessfully attempting to jam you.

I don't really like this, too much like FOF missiles, but when brainstorming one is supposed to mention also the ideas that are probably not too good...

Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Clan Korval
Posted - 2006.05.05 08:49:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Rockadeus
Originally by: Gronsak

if you throw a coin in the air there is 50% chance it gets a heads.
what is the chance that you get at lest 1 head in two throws? its 75%.


Erm, no, it's 50%.



Sorry no, it is 75%. I dont feel like teaching you basic math skills so go read a book and then come back and bother people.




Nafri
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.05.05 09:04:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Nafri
Stacking penalty on jammers, stop the zerging


I think that's counter-productive. It means that dedicated EW ships have to suffer a penalty, and it's far more tempting to NOT use the dedicated EW ship, but to stick one jammer on each of your ships instead.

Also, the relocking heavily penalised BS over smaller ships, and I think smaller ship's sensor strenght would have to be raised a little to compensate if that change went through.


Oh yea, and - make ECCM systems have a secondary function. Make them ALL omni, and instead the different types have active functions like passive locking, autolocking, ship scanning and so on.



Ähmm, EW stacks on the enemy ship, not your own Razz

So you can use about 3 ECM modules on a enemy ship without penalty, but a Raven with just 6 multies and low EW strength gets a big penalty for 1vs1 fights.

Its all about how many ECM you can use per enemy, not about how many ECM you have fitted on your ship.

With this changes no fleetcommander will want to have Ravens with its 5-6 strenght multies to waste jamming chances of their scorps/rooks with their 11.25-13.5 strength

Mahavy Seth
Viper-Squad
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2006.05.05 09:26:00 - [126]
 

Well.. personally I think that EW is not too overpowered... a slight increase of sensor stregth, may be a 30%, is ok. Remember that there is ECCM that boost you 60%..

problem is that ppls always fit super gank or super tank setup then say:"OMG he jammed me! go to the nerfmobile!!!"...

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2006.05.05 09:34:00 - [127]
 

reverse stacking penalty ?

the more jammers you have the more strength they have each ? and decrease jammer strength as well ... so dedicated ships with lots of mids (blackbird/scorpion) get a boost from going pure jammers ?

make it also reverse so 2-3 jammers have only slight boost, while 4 and more ramp up ?

Lucian Corvinus
Gallente
Expert Systems
Posted - 2006.05.05 09:40:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Mara Black

Let me give a simpler example. In Monopoloy a 'get out of jail card' (a reactive option) is worthless if nobody puts you in jail, a 'put someone in jail card' (if it existed) would be worth a lot more in such a game, even though each counters the other perfectly.


A 'put someone in jail card' would be worthless if the person you put in jail had a 'get out of jail card'. To convert this to eve lingo, a ecm module would be alot less useful if the person you used it on had fitted a eccm module.

Originally by: Mara Black

You are making my point for me. Of course natural countermeasures do not always work, they have countermeasures themselves, etc. etc. That is part of the beauty of EVE tactical combat, you have to think and adapt while you are playing, countering countermeasure with countermeasure. With ECM you don't have that options. You strike out or you don't, it has precious little to do with tactics. And I think many people here do play it because of the wealth of tactical options and the fact that their in-combat choices actually affect the outcome.



Every module you fit is about tactics, on ships dedicated to using ecm like the BB, scorp and rook, this is the ONLY defence they have. so when you suddenly loose lock, you are pretty much dead before the next succesful jamming cycle.

Originally by: Mara Black

That is certainly true, I agree, but I think it is only part of the fun. To use my magic analogy, not knowing what deck your opponent has built is part of the fun, but actually tactically playing against him is another big part. ECM makes it 'hard to play' sometimes.


There are many tactics that makes it "hard for you to play", what if you are webbed and scrambled and your opponent is orbiting you. How are you gonna counter that, if you're using turrets and have no drones??

Since people are arguing that everyone is using ecm, they should not strike out fitting a eccm module now should they?

Gronsak
Amarr
Posted - 2006.05.05 09:46:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Gronsak on 05/05/2006 09:47:03
why does everyone think you need to jam your target constantly to win?

i only need 1 jam in the whole fight to win, 2jams and i laugh. and with over 85% of getting 1 jam within the time duration of my fights means that it is indeed an i win button!


And like it has already been pointed out, shuts down nos/guns/offensive mid slots
while tracking desrupters do only guns. and damps are not garanted ie target gets in range and locks before u can damp him!

why do u think ppl are fitting ecm on recons with damp/tracking desrupter bonouses?

Nafri
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.05.05 10:10:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Gronsak
Edited by: Gronsak on 05/05/2006 09:47:03
why does everyone think you need to jam your target constantly to win?

i only need 1 jam in the whole fight to win, 2jams and i laugh. and with over 85% of getting 1 jam within the time duration of my fights means that it is indeed an i win button!


And like it has already been pointed out, shuts down nos/guns/offensive mid slots
while tracking desrupters do only guns. and damps are not garanted ie target gets in range and locks before u can damp him!

why do u think ppl are fitting ecm on recons with damp/tracking desrupter bonouses?


Your suggestions will make ECM pointless, for small scale battles and for fleetbattles...

smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Irrepressible Mirth
Posted - 2006.05.05 10:25:00 - [131]
 

Still not seen anything in this thread to convince me ecm is not overpowered, at least on non-ecm ships. I'm liking the idea of a stacking penalty, that would indeed make sure that ecm ships with high chances to jam are favoured over normal ships with a multi on.

sgb

GREATONE
Posted - 2006.05.05 10:27:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Gronsak
its overpowered no matter how u put it nafari

put one racial on a ship and your target had almost zero chance and you dont even need high skills!





this is not correct there is mods to fitt to prevent being jammed if you dont use them dont complain its that simple..its like all other fittings out there you just cant have everything on your ship you have to decide what fitting you want and live with it

smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Irrepressible Mirth
Posted - 2006.05.05 10:30:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: smallgreenblur on 05/05/2006 10:30:05
Originally by: GREATONE
Originally by: Gronsak
its overpowered no matter how u put it nafari

put one racial on a ship and your target had almost zero chance and you dont even need high skills!


this is not correct there is mods to fitt to prevent being jammed if you dont use them dont complain its that simple..its like all other fittings out there you just cant have everything on your ship you have to decide what fitting you want and live with it


This is not an argument. The module to counter ECM is the ECCM, which conveys no further benefit on your ship, and is not particularly useful. If you read the initial post, you will see that the devs are considering boosting ECCM.

Let me ask you this: If you have the choice of fitting eccm or another ecm module on your ship, which would you choose?

Please read this thread, these replies have already been posted.

sgb

Gronsak
Amarr
Posted - 2006.05.05 10:33:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: GREATONE
Originally by: Gronsak
its overpowered no matter how u put it nafari

put one racial on a ship and your target had almost zero chance and you dont even need high skills!





this is not correct there is mods to fitt to prevent being jammed if you dont use them dont complain its that simple..its like all other fittings out there you just cant have everything on your ship you have to decide what fitting you want and live with it


stupid argument

when lasers where i win, they didnt intriduce a mod to fit in your mid slot that would decrease the damage taken only from lasers becase that would be stupid and thats what ur asking for!

if something is overpowered u hit it with the nerf bat u dont introduce a mod that helps defend against it

Gronsak
Amarr
Posted - 2006.05.05 10:40:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Gronsak
Edited by: Gronsak on 05/05/2006 09:47:03
why does everyone think you need to jam your target constantly to win?

i only need 1 jam in the whole fight to win, 2jams and i laugh. and with over 85% of getting 1 jam within the time duration of my fights means that it is indeed an i win button!


And like it has already been pointed out, shuts down nos/guns/offensive mid slots
while tracking desrupters do only guns. and damps are not garanted ie target gets in range and locks before u can damp him!

why do u think ppl are fitting ecm on recons with damp/tracking desrupter bonouses?


Your suggestions will make ECM pointless, for small scale battles and for fleetbattles...


oh rly, so insted of jamming 8 geddens with 66% chance useing one BS, thats shutting down 56guns and 8 heavy nos and 8 warp desrupters and 8 weebers with a single ship isnt overpwoered?


better yet my 250k SP alt in the griffen with his 4 naed caldari racials and barly anyskills at all. he gives me 80% chance of shutting down a raven! or my 63% chance of jamming a raven with 2 named racials and skills on lvl 4. or my 95% chance of jamming a raven once within a 60sec fight useing 2 racials which gives me the win everytime!

smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Irrepressible Mirth
Posted - 2006.05.05 10:42:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Gronsak
Edited by: Gronsak on 05/05/2006 09:47:03
why does everyone think you need to jam your target constantly to win?

i only need 1 jam in the whole fight to win, 2jams and i laugh. and with over 85% of getting 1 jam within the time duration of my fights means that it is indeed an i win button!


And like it has already been pointed out, shuts down nos/guns/offensive mid slots
while tracking desrupters do only guns. and damps are not garanted ie target gets in range and locks before u can damp him!

why do u think ppl are fitting ecm on recons with damp/tracking desrupter bonouses?


Your suggestions will make ECM pointless, for small scale battles and for fleetbattles...


oh rly, so insted of jamming 8 geddens with 66% chance useing one BS, thats shutting down 56guns and 8 heavy nos and 8 warp desrupters and 8 weebers with a single ship isnt overpwoered?


better yet my 250k SP alt in the griffen with his 4 naed caldari racials and barly anyskills at all. he gives me 80% chance of shutting down a raven! or my 63% chance of jamming a raven with 2 named racials and skills on lvl 4. or my 95% chance of jamming a raven once within a 60sec fight useing 2 racials which gives me the win everytime!


His posts make my eyes water, but he does have a point...

sgb

GREATONE
Posted - 2006.05.05 10:59:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: GREATONE
Originally by: Gronsak
its overpowered no matter how u put it nafari

put one racial on a ship and your target had almost zero chance and you dont even need high skills!





this is not correct there is mods to fitt to prevent being jammed if you dont use them dont complain its that simple..its like all other fittings out there you just cant have everything on your ship you have to decide what fitting you want and live with it


stupid argument

when lasers where i win, they didnt intriduce a mod to fit in your mid slot that would decrease the damage taken only from lasers becase that would be stupid and thats what ur asking for!

if something is overpowered u hit it with the nerf bat u dont introduce a mod that helps defend against it



its very mutch valid if you want to jam a ship with 3 warp core stabs you must fitt more then 1 warp jammer if you want to stay relativly safe against ecm you must fitt a eccm and eccm does indead work saying it aint is ******** this will indeed nerf your tank or whatever but this is something you must decide if you want to do or not you people just cant have a ship that is uber at everything then we dont need diffrent ship types etc ..its same when you fitt for speed then you nerf your ship in tank and gunnery this is so easy to understand..what you want you just cant have a ship that can do it all play homeworld or something if you dont like it..if something is good in pvp adept and fitt after this then if not dont blame me

Gronsak
Amarr
Posted - 2006.05.05 11:07:00 - [138]
 

Edited by: Gronsak on 05/05/2006 11:10:06
Edited by: Gronsak on 05/05/2006 11:07:49
Originally by: GREATONE


its very mutch valid if you want to jam a ship with 3 warp core stabs you must fitt more then 1 warp jammer if you want to stay relativly safe against ecm you must fitt a eccm and eccm does indead work saying it aint is ******** this will indeed nerf your tank or whatever but this is something you must decide if you want to do or not you people just cant have a ship that is uber at everything then we dont need diffrent ship types etc ..its same when you fitt for speed then you nerf your ship in tank and gunnery this is so easy to understand..what you want you just cant have a ship that can do it all play homeworld or something if you dont like it..if something is good in pvp adept and fitt after this then if not dont blame me



you still dont understand do you???????

if something is overpwoered YOU DO NOT introduce a module to fix the problem becase there are a limited number of slots on ships, if there was a unlimited number of slots and cpu and pg then you module idea would be ok

basicly you cant counter overpowered systems with modules.

think of the nos neft, tux was thinking of a module, but almost no cepter or frig or even hac can offord to fit the module becase they already badly need those slots. becase of that its not a nerf to nos at all [it would be a nerf to nos if it was a high slot that is usually left empty ie like on a deimos or zealot and the mod was very low cpu/pg and did -80% to nos or more]

understand now?


also edit: do you ever pvp? becase if u did you know that being jamed by a apoc FFS isnt right! or better getting jamed by a freking kestrel. wow fights are now which ever side gets the most sucessfull jams first!

Nafri
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.05.05 12:19:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Gronsak
Edited by: Gronsak on 05/05/2006 09:47:03
why does everyone think you need to jam your target constantly to win?

i only need 1 jam in the whole fight to win, 2jams and i laugh. and with over 85% of getting 1 jam within the time duration of my fights means that it is indeed an i win button!


And like it has already been pointed out, shuts down nos/guns/offensive mid slots
while tracking desrupters do only guns. and damps are not garanted ie target gets in range and locks before u can damp him!

why do u think ppl are fitting ecm on recons with damp/tracking desrupter bonouses?


Your suggestions will make ECM pointless, for small scale battles and for fleetbattles...


oh rly, so insted of jamming 8 geddens with 66% chance useing one BS, thats shutting down 56guns and 8 heavy nos and 8 warp desrupters and 8 weebers with a single ship isnt overpwoered?


better yet my 250k SP alt in the griffen with his 4 naed caldari racials and barly anyskills at all. he gives me 80% chance of shutting down a raven! or my 63% chance of jamming a raven with 2 named racials and skills on lvl 4. or my 95% chance of jamming a raven once within a 60sec fight useing 2 racials which gives me the win everytime!


how do you want to jamm 8 geddons with 6 midslots?

your 250k SP alt cant run 4 racials for longer than 1 cycle anyway Razz

Lema
JL Industries
Posted - 2006.05.05 12:40:00 - [140]
 

Here’s my idea for an EW fix although it might have been suggested already, give the jammer a cap penalty based on the sensor strength on the ship you are trying to jam.

For example I’m in a frig with a T1 multispec with a strength of 4 activation cost is 120.
I try to jam a Rifter with a strength of 8 which is double of my multispec. With an activation penalty of say 50% this would rise to 180 cap use, but if I tried to jam a battleship of say 20 sensor strength this is 5 times the jammer and would increase the cap usage to 420 and I might not have the capacitor to do it. It would need some balancing and maybe should only effect non EW shipsSmile

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2006.05.05 12:43:00 - [141]
 

Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 05/05/2006 12:44:30
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Gronsak
Edited by: Gronsak on 05/05/2006 09:47:03
why does everyone think you need to jam your target constantly to win?

i only need 1 jam in the whole fight to win, 2jams and i laugh. and with over 85% of getting 1 jam within the time duration of my fights means that it is indeed an i win button!


And like it has already been pointed out, shuts down nos/guns/offensive mid slots
while tracking desrupters do only guns. and damps are not garanted ie target gets in range and locks before u can damp him!

why do u think ppl are fitting ecm on recons with damp/tracking desrupter bonouses?


Your suggestions will make ECM pointless, for small scale battles and for fleetbattles...


oh rly, so insted of jamming 8 geddens with 66% chance useing one BS, thats shutting down 56guns and 8 heavy nos and 8 warp desrupters and 8 weebers with a single ship isnt overpwoered?


better yet my 250k SP alt in the griffen with his 4 naed caldari racials and barly anyskills at all. he gives me 80% chance of shutting down a raven! or my 63% chance of jamming a raven with 2 named racials and skills on lvl 4. or my 95% chance of jamming a raven once within a 60sec fight useing 2 racials which gives me the win everytime!


how do you want to jamm 8 geddons with 6 midslots?

your 250k SP alt cant run 4 racials for longer than 1 cycle anyway Razz


Nafri, Gronsak is playing the game of numbers, where the highest number wins for him. It's the same as saying mega has more dps than raven so mega should win every time. we know it's not true.

btw notice that he does not comment any other suggestions than his own ...

Troubadour
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.05.05 13:01:00 - [142]
 

OK first of all when I speak of EW, I mean ECM, Not other forms of EW like disruptors, dampers etc etc.

Here is a very simple idea that would make ECM less overpowering on non-ECM ships.

Make ECM 20-40% LESS effective. That is, change the power of the modules by 20-40% less.
Make the Bonuses on ECM ships to ECM strength 20-40% MORE.

This would basically make ECM 20-40% less effective on NON-ECM ships, but keep is exactly the same on ECM ships.

Problem solved.

Shin Ra
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.05.05 13:08:00 - [143]
 

The cooldown idea is ok in theory if it affects only ECM. Tracking disruptors and dampners would be absolutly dire if this affected them - and quite frankly they would be stupid to make this happen.

The problem is still that in a 1v1 or similar situation, the player with 1 multispec should get at least one jam, which will enable him to get out. Dunno how to fix this really.

1 tracking disruptor will have a significant impact on a target, 1 sensor dampner will not. In order to get the desired effect (IE target can't lock you), you NEED to stack more than 1 on 99% of targets. Having a cooldown period for dampners effectively ruins this making them next to useless.

With ECM this is DIFFERENT. Since you do not need multiple modules to get the desired outcome.

Personally, I think having 4+ ecm mods stack would be a good solution. However, ECM strength should be made weaker. At the same time, ecm ships (rook, bb, scorp) should have a significant bonus to ecm. This will prevent the 1ecm mod saving people so often.

For dampners and TDs, I don't think they need any change. The stacking penalty on ECM, would encourage scorps and rooks to fit 1-2 dampners to reduce lock time. This would means the lock time effect would actually be used, cause lets face it - the only thing dampners are really used from atm is reducing targeting range.

Heikki
Gallente
Erasers inc.
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2006.05.05 13:17:00 - [144]
 

Nice to keep summary of all ideas on the first post sgb; hope the habit catches on :)

Seems folks are feeling that ECM is far too good compared to pre-random state. Or in other words; it's seems fine if fully ECM focused ships has 100% chance to jam, but sucks if single module gives huge advantage in combat.

That single module will a) in short fights (<40 secs) randomly decide the winner b) let user escape 1 vs 1 fights: jam the scrambler, will eventually succeed c) give huge reduction on received damage on long fights (With ECM multi 5 vs 25 strength BS -> on average 25-30% reduced damage/nos/etc on long fights)

I still would like to see ECM as major part of fleet battles, and keep the random based system.

So my suggestions would be to try return on concept of having decicated ECM ships (for fleets/small gangs), and make single ECM modules rare.

Think this could be achieved either by:

a) Have ECM modules give non-cumulative combat disadvantages.

I.e. whether you have 1 or 7 ECM, you get like 50% reduction in all damage you do (might be hard to implement in current system).

Or,

b) Reduce the strength of lone/few ECM modules. Like, if your ship has less than 4-5 modules, they would be considerable weaker than now (easy to implement).

-Lasse

Lucian Corvinus
Gallente
Expert Systems
Posted - 2006.05.05 13:34:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Troubadour
OK first of all when I speak of EW, I mean ECM, Not other forms of EW like disruptors, dampers etc etc.

Here is a very simple idea that would make ECM less overpowering on non-ECM ships.

Make ECM 20-40% LESS effective. That is, change the power of the modules by 20-40% less.
Make the Bonuses on ECM ships to ECM strength 20-40% MORE.

This would basically make ECM 20-40% less effective on NON-ECM ships, but keep is exactly the same on ECM ships.

Problem solved.


Best idea in this entire thread!

This is something I would really like to see implemented, but they might want to boost the eccm modules a little, so we keep all the whiners happyVery Happy

smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Irrepressible Mirth
Posted - 2006.05.05 13:45:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Shin Ra
The cooldown idea is ok in theory if it affects only ECM. Tracking disruptors and dampners would be absolutly dire if this affected them - and quite frankly they would be stupid to make this happen.

The problem is still that in a 1v1 or similar situation, the player with 1 multispec should get at least one jam, which will enable him to get out. Dunno how to fix this really.

1 tracking disruptor will have a significant impact on a target, 1 sensor dampner will not. In order to get the desired effect (IE target can't lock you), you NEED to stack more than 1 on 99% of targets. Having a cooldown period for dampners effectively ruins this making them next to useless.

With ECM this is DIFFERENT. Since you do not need multiple modules to get the desired outcome.

Personally, I think having 4+ ecm mods stack would be a good solution. However, ECM strength should be made weaker. At the same time, ecm ships (rook, bb, scorp) should have a significant bonus to ecm. This will prevent the 1ecm mod saving people so often.

For dampners and TDs, I don't think they need any change. The stacking penalty on ECM, would encourage scorps and rooks to fit 1-2 dampners to reduce lock time. This would means the lock time effect would actually be used, cause lets face it - the only thing dampners are really used from atm is reducing targeting range.


Yeah mate, when I talk about EW I mean ECM - obviousy a side-effect of ECM being vastly overpowered and therefore overused compared to the others.

Stacking penalty is looking good right now, but IMO only when combined with an across the board reduction in ECM effectiveness, whilst retaining the usefulness of specialist ships.

This would mean considerably less use of random bits of ecm on normal ships, as they would adversely affect the chances of their more skilled mates to jam.

And whoever it is just above me, stop ****ing calling this thread a whine, it's really starting to get irritating. Go complain somewhere else, only post here if you have something constructive to say.

sgb

smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Irrepressible Mirth
Posted - 2006.05.05 13:46:00 - [147]
 

Oh, and read the very first post before you post, that way y'all can see if the idea has been suggested already. Neat eh?

sgb

Christopher Dalran
Gallente
Deadly Alliance
Posted - 2006.05.05 14:48:00 - [148]
 

I just alwayse wondered, why not fit ECCM, tracking compuers, and sensor boosters?

From my vantage point i have noticed that when you activate an ECCM it suprises people, seems nobody ever expects anyone to have them. Pop one up and start shooting back and guess what happens? When you start hitting they run away and find someone else less able to defend themselves. Works fine for me and i LOVE the tracking computer.

smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Irrepressible Mirth
Posted - 2006.05.05 14:51:00 - [149]
 

Edited by: smallgreenblur on 05/05/2006 14:52:24
Because eccm doesn't work as well as you think. If fitting one eccm meant that somebody with one multispec couldn't jam you, fine. It doesn't tho, so you have taken a valuable mid slot for something that doesn't really help you that much.

I use eccm on bs, and I get jammed less than I used to. Not much tho, still ain't good enough. Also, eccm is useless on ships with below about 20 sensor strength.

Edit - if you can fit eccm, a sensor booster, a tracking computer (pointless in most close range setups), and still have enough room to tackle your opponent, you're flying a different ship to me.

sgb

Christopher Dalran
Gallente
Deadly Alliance
Posted - 2006.05.05 15:00:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 05/05/2006 15:04:29
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 05/05/2006 15:02:12

Fly with someone in a EW ship with Projected ECCM or something. If they lock them so what, your the one doing all the dammage and if they jam you just use your ECCM while the other projects his onto you and you should be fine. Same applies to tracking and dampers.


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