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Ai Zhao
Posted - 2006.04.05 05:03:00 - [1]
 

Does anyone have a forumla or calculator for the effects a target painter or multipule target painters have on a ship?
Their description in the item database is woefully vague on what it does.

Hoshi
Hedron Industries
Red Dwarf Racketeering Division
Posted - 2006.04.05 11:30:00 - [2]
 

What is vague about it? They increase target signature radius by the % listed reduced by stacking penalty if several are used.

You can use evegeeks Stacking penalty Calculator if you want. Just put initial signature radius in the first field. Damage/Range as type and fill in the target painter values below.

Soka Royta
Posted - 2006.04.05 13:39:00 - [3]
 

It is perhaps the effect of signature radius variation that would help explain.

My understanding is that increased signature radius, increases targetting time of affected ship? It also increases the damage that larger ammo/missile types may do to smaller ships i.e. heavy missile will do greater damage to a frig?

This I hope is correct from my understanding

Hoshi
Hedron Industries
Red Dwarf Racketeering Division
Posted - 2006.04.05 20:41:00 - [4]
 

Increasing signature radius does 3 things.

1. It takes less time to lock a target with larger signature radius (the effect here is minimal, 30% signature increase equal 5% faster locktime).

2. It's easier for turrets to hit a target with larger signature radius (dubble the size has the same effect as cutting it's transversal speed in half).

3. Oversized missile has less damage reduction against larger targets (if target signature radius is smaller than missile exlosion radius both before and after target painting the effective damage increase will be the same as the signature % increase).

Cummilla
Posted - 2006.04.05 21:11:00 - [5]
 

I find great results with up to three target painters. The fourth is, as expected, greatly reduced in terms of what it adds. But few modules do for missiles what target painters do...esp. t2 antiship missiles.

PCX339
STK Scientific
Posted - 2006.04.05 22:41:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Hoshi
Increasing signature radius does 3 things.

1. It takes less time to lock a target with larger signature radius (the effect here is minimal, 30% signature increase equal 5% faster locktime).

2. It's easier for turrets to hit a target with larger signature radius (dubble the size has the same effect as cutting it's transversal speed in half).

3. Oversized missile has less damage reduction against larger targets (if target signature radius is smaller than missile exlosion radius both before and after target painting the effective damage increase will be the same as the signature % increase).


Where do you get the 30% sig radius = 5% locktime number? I'm not disagreeing, I just hadn't seen the formula around. I'd like to be able to calculate lock time ab initio instead of having to undock and convince someone I'm not REALLY going to shoot them Razz


Ai Zhao
Posted - 2006.04.05 23:22:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Hoshi
What is vague about it? They increase target signature radius by the % listed...


The exact % was exactly what they're vague about, take a look: http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/shipequipment/electronicwarfare/targetpainters/12709.asp

I will assume from what you've said that you get a lot more detail in game than you do from the Item Database, and I'll check it in game next time I'm on. I guess the problem I have is that I look things up when I'm not playing and the Item Database is a bit incomplete.

Active1313
Caldari
Cruoris Seraphim
Exuro Mortis
Posted - 2006.04.05 23:48:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ai Zhao
Originally by: Hoshi
What is vague about it? They increase target signature radius by the % listed...


The exact % was exactly what they're vague about, take a look: http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/shipequipment/electronicwarfare/targetpainters/12709.asp

I will assume from what you've said that you get a lot more detail in game than you do from the Item Database, and I'll check it in game next time I'm on. I guess the problem I have is that I look things up when I'm not playing and the Item Database is a bit incomplete.



Wow, yeah...the Item DB is not so good for the info on mods usually best to look them up in game for true properties..

Lebowske
Nosferatu Security Foundation
Posted - 2006.04.06 01:40:00 - [9]
 

You can learn a lot from just checking the Guides(in the left menu).
Take a look at the missile guide - page 4 - contains DPS with & without painter - play with the numbers.

Hoshi
Hedron Industries
Red Dwarf Racketeering Division
Posted - 2006.04.06 13:03:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: PCX339

Where do you get the 30% sig radius = 5% locktime number? I'm not disagreeing, I just hadn't seen the formula around. I'd like to be able to calculate lock time ab initio instead of having to undock and convince someone I'm not REALLY going to shoot them Razz


The formula is (10000/scan resolution)/arsinh(signature radius).

Arsinh is sometimes written as sinh^-1 and is equal to ln(x+(x^2+1)^0.5)

PCX339
STK Scientific
Posted - 2006.04.06 16:24:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: PCX339

Where do you get the 30% sig radius = 5% locktime number? I'm not disagreeing, I just hadn't seen the formula around. I'd like to be able to calculate lock time ab initio instead of having to undock and convince someone I'm not REALLY going to shoot them Razz


The formula is (10000/scan resolution)/arsinh(signature radius).

Arsinh is sometimes written as sinh^-1 and is equal to ln(x+(x^2+1)^0.5)


Hoshi, thanks for the formula. Comparing to some of my data it looks spot on for the midranges (Assault frig through Battlecruiser) but I get slower locks on interceptors and quicker locks on Battleships than the formula would suggest (skill effects are taken into account). Still very useful and I will use this a good baseline. Can I ask where this formula came from? I had also thought range was a factor although I don't seem to have taken straightforward data to document that.

-PCX

Hoshi
Hedron Industries
Red Dwarf Racketeering Division
Posted - 2006.04.06 17:32:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: PCX339

Hoshi, thanks for the formula. Comparing to some of my data it looks spot on for the midranges (Assault frig through Battlecruiser) but I get slower locks on interceptors and quicker locks on Battleships than the formula would suggest (skill effects are taken into account). Still very useful and I will use this a good baseline. Can I ask where this formula came from? I had also thought range was a factor although I don't seem to have taken straightforward data to document that.

-PCX

From the official dev post made then the current system was introduced back in dec 2003.

Jarem Alistor
Minmatar
Empire of Destiny
Posted - 2006.04.06 19:10:00 - [13]
 

Alright I asked in another thread and no one answered so I'll ask here since it seems to be in the same vein.

I'm building a long range set-up Tempest and fly a long range setup Cyclone.

When things get closer to me my arties have trouble hitting them, obviously (I wish a Dev would reply that their working on Artie improvements.)

Anyway, currently I have a webber to slow them down to hopeully get somewhat better DPS with my arties when they get within 10 klicks.

My question is this, would I be served better with a target painter instead of the webber? Unfortunately that's the only slot I have to play with so I'm trying to figure out if it would be better to keep the webber there or fit a target painter so that my missiles do more damage at that range.

-Jarem

Vexoth
Two Guys Mining
Posted - 2006.04.06 19:15:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Jarem Alistor

When things get closer to me my arties have trouble hitting them, obviously (I wish a Dev would reply that their working on Artie improvements.)

Anyway, currently I have a webber to slow them down to hopeully get somewhat better DPS with my arties when they get within 10 klicks.

My question is this, would I be served better with a target painter instead of the webber? Unfortunately that's the only slot I have to play with so I'm trying to figure out if it would be better to keep the webber there or fit a target painter so that my missiles do more damage at that range.

-Jarem

Your problem is tracking and the painter will not help with this. 2x webbers would help but I'm sure you don't have the midslots for that. =(

Jarem Alistor
Minmatar
Empire of Destiny
Posted - 2006.04.06 19:29:00 - [15]
 

*Chuckles.*

I wish I did.

I only have one mid-slot to play with. My set up is pretty decent (I'm not posting it here it'd get ripped to shreds but it's served me pretty well. I still can't do level 3 missions yet but I'm skilling up to be able to fit a large ext and large booster which should help)

Anyway - I have 3 missile slots on the cyclone and 4 on the tempest. I've got 2 heavies and one light on the cyclone, I was figuring that the painter would increase the sig of things closer, which are typically frigs because cruisers pop rather nicely, which would let my heavies damage them more.

And if I click on my AB and set "keep at range" then I'll lower my transversal velocity and the target painter - someone said above, would in effect half their transversal as well.

I was just figuring since my arties are rather worthless too close in that it might be a viable alternative to rely on my missiles when things get that close, neh?

And I also have three medium drones which, apparenlty, have trouble hitting webbed things so that should help as well.

Neh?

-Jarem


 

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