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Rengret Erekeck
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2006.04.04 01:29:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Rengret Erekeck on 04/04/2006 01:30:00
My friend said they sucked. i tried one (this is waaay back on my old character)

i did crap damage.
my friend says its because omens suck
however i do crap damage from a moa too
and that omen was before i knew anything about lasers, armor tanking, or that WCS should be on combat setups..

im thinking since i like combat too much to have this manufacturing character, i would make a minmatar guy have slave child ansestry, and train gunnery skills and amarr ships

what I have to ask is, do omens really suck, or was it just my 20k SP in gunnery and the WCS

im pretty sure its the crap skills.

anyways, given how it seems all the cruiser guns eat too much grid to actually go on a cruiser, can i get a little fitting help?


Eximius Josari
New Atlantis Tek Corporation
Posted - 2006.04.04 01:30:00 - [2]
 

having only 20k sp in anything would have you believe something sucks...

Omen = minigeddon.

Rengret Erekeck
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2006.04.04 01:34:00 - [3]
 

ok good.

only fitting problem i have is that the lasers take too much grid to fit a full rack, unless i use the really weak ones. but then its not a mini geddon. Sad

Eximius Josari
New Atlantis Tek Corporation
Posted - 2006.04.04 01:46:00 - [4]
 

4 Heavy Pulse fit just fine, but you will need RCUs to fit any kind of tank.

Rengret Erekeck
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2006.04.04 02:09:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Rengret Erekeck on 04/04/2006 02:14:29
but then the RCU's use up low slots that i could use on tank..

well i guess it makes sense if i wanna kill things fast i dont need much tank

so... 4x heavy pulse with something like gamma or MF

1x 10mn AB - since the pulse will limit my range..
1x Cap recharger - probably good..
1x statis webifier - killing pesky frigs

lows..

1x med armor rep
2x RCU - is that enough
1x energised explosive plating
1x energized adaptave plating
if i dont need one of the RCU, then ill put either more energised plating or something like 400 or 800mm plate

hows that seem?

Eximius Josari
New Atlantis Tek Corporation
Posted - 2006.04.04 02:15:00 - [6]
 

The Omen is definately not a good tank esp compared to the Maller, but two small reps with 2 energized adaptive nanos and one damage control should work decently well.

In mids, go for cap rechargers. As for the 5th hi slot, not sure what your skills will leave you to fit there.

Alzion
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.04.04 02:15:00 - [7]
 

Omen is pretty pointless imo. Alot of people see the ROF bonus and assume its a high damage minigeddon but, if you do some math 4 guns * 1.25 = 5 guns. So you might as well use a maller which can do the same ammount of damage while fitting a tank.

Eximius Josari
New Atlantis Tek Corporation
Posted - 2006.04.04 02:17:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Alzion
Omen is pretty pointless imo. Alot of people see the ROF bonus and assume its a high damage minigeddon but, if you do some math 4 guns * 1.25 = 5 guns. So you might as well use a maller which can do the same ammount of damage while fitting a tank.


Omen does more dmg...4 guns + launcher and drones does a little more than 5 guns worth of dmg.

Rengret Erekeck
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2006.04.04 02:21:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Rengret Erekeck on 04/04/2006 02:26:00
yeah addin the launcher. omen does more damage, maller tanks like hell.

in fact, teamed together the omen can drop some tank for some damage mods, and that would work out well IMO

so now all i need is a good name for this character who im going to make...
hmmm

edit: i have it:

Efbiai Ehgent

Hes brutor. he wears sunglasses. try saying the name out loud slowly.

see if you get it

Woopie
Posted - 2006.04.04 02:49:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Woopie on 04/04/2006 02:53:17
The difference is were a geddon does 16.7% more damage than apoc, where as a omen only does lousy 6.7% more damage than maller (and only with cruiser lvl 5).

Over all a omen is all most always a poor choose. Tanks/fits poorly for slightly more damage only at lvl 5.

Well that's not counting launcher/drones. For any sane PvP you would want nos or empty slot (to safe fittings) and 3 light drones don't come anywhere close to make up for maller resist bonus

Rengret Erekeck
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2006.04.04 02:54:00 - [11]
 

dont forget the omen is faster (not that it makes much difference but it could)

and i like how the omen looks

so there.

ha.

Eximius Josari
New Atlantis Tek Corporation
Posted - 2006.04.04 02:55:00 - [12]
 

Maller with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M (nothing else fitted) and max skills

107 DPS

Omen with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M (nothing else) and max skills

114 DPS

Omen with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M and max skills with 3 light drones and one heavy launcher

154 DPS

So I would say the Omen is just fine with its dmg to tank ability ratio.

Meridius
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.04.04 03:14:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Woopie
Edited by: Woopie on 04/04/2006 02:53:17
The difference is were a geddon does 16.7% more damage than apoc, where as a omen only does lousy 6.7% more damage than maller (and only with cruiser lvl 5).

Over all a omen is all most always a poor choose. Tanks/fits poorly for slightly more damage only at lvl 5.

Well that's not counting launcher/drones. For any sane PvP you would want nos or empty slot (to safe fittings) and 3 light drones don't come anywhere close to make up for maller resist bonus



Exactly, the Omen is pretty pointless unless your **** poor.

Jebus would use a Maller.

Rengret Erekeck
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2006.04.04 04:03:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Eximius Josari
Maller with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M (nothing else fitted) and max skills

107 DPS

Omen with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M (nothing else) and max skills

114 DPS

Omen with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M and max skills with 3 light drones and one heavy launcher

154 DPS

So I would say the Omen is just fine with its dmg to tank ability ratio.


that seems closer to 50% more damage to me

and if i calculated correctly, its 69.4% more

Eximius Josari
New Atlantis Tek Corporation
Posted - 2006.04.04 04:08:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Rengret Erekeck
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Maller with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M (nothing else fitted) and max skills

107 DPS

Omen with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M (nothing else) and max skills

114 DPS

Omen with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M and max skills with 3 light drones and one heavy launcher

154 DPS

So I would say the Omen is just fine with its dmg to tank ability ratio.


that seems closer to 50% more damage to me

and if i calculated correctly, its 69.4% more


44%, but either way its far more dmging then the Maller.

Kidd Billups
Viziam
Posted - 2006.04.04 04:27:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Kidd Billups on 04/04/2006 04:30:19
don't fly an omen with 20k gunner SP's. All omens are good for is damage cause they can't tank at all

Alzion
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.04.04 04:42:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Eximius Josari
Maller with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M (nothing else fitted) and max skills

107 DPS

Omen with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M (nothing else) and max skills

114 DPS

Omen with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M and max skills with 3 light drones and one heavy launcher

154 DPS

So I would say the Omen is just fine with its dmg to tank ability ratio.


Yes, but can the Omen fit that plus 3 damage mods? The maller can and can fit a decent tank as well.

Ras Blumin
A Cross The Universe
Posted - 2006.04.04 05:02:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Alzion
if you do some math 4 guns * 1.25 = 5 guns.
It's actually 4 / 0.75 = 5 1/3 which is around 6.7 % more damage if my calculations are right.

Eximius Josari
New Atlantis Tek Corporation
Posted - 2006.04.04 05:44:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Alzion
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Maller with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M (nothing else fitted) and max skills

107 DPS

Omen with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M (nothing else) and max skills

114 DPS

Omen with Heavy Pulse I and Multi M and max skills with 3 light drones and one heavy launcher

154 DPS

So I would say the Omen is just fine with its dmg to tank ability ratio.


Yes, but can the Omen fit that plus 3 damage mods? The maller can and can fit a decent tank as well.


The following (assume max skills) will fit on an Omen and give it 381 DPS:

4x Heavy Pulse II with Conflag M
1x Heavy Launcher II with Havoc Fury
1x Stasis Webber
1x 10MN AB II
1x Scrambler
1x RCU I
1x Co-Processor I
3x Heat Sink II

The Maller with 3x HS II and 5 Heavy Pulse II (Conflag) gets only 298.9 DPS

That's 28% less. And the only thing the Maller can fit after that that the Omen cant is a Medium Rep II.

The only reason to get a Maller is tank, if you are looking for dmg, then the Omen is where its at.

awwsd
Posted - 2006.04.04 06:09:00 - [20]
 

If you put WCS on a Omen youre an idiot...

Ruah Piskonit
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2006.04.04 06:24:00 - [21]
 

The point here is: If you have good skills, you trained your armor, Cap and PG, gunnery and finally your drone skills - then you are ready for an omen. . . even with all this however, I would still fly an arbiter or a Maller over an Omen. The loss of tank, or EW/Drones in the Arbis case is too much for my taste.

You stated yourself that you have very low gunnery skills. I would assume you have next to no drone skills, and your cruiser skills are low too. . . this is before all the nessisary tanking and energy skills. Take a Maller for safty (it does good dps. . . really it does) or get into a Punisher and skill up properly.


Benglada
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.04.04 08:16:00 - [22]
 

ITs ****ing hard to fit 5 heavy pulses on a maller

MOS DEF
0utbreak
Posted - 2006.04.04 08:38:00 - [23]
 

IMO the problem with omen is that peoplke try to tank it. If you do that get the maller.
If you fly the omen you better have a rack of heatsinks in the lows or you fly nothing else but a maller with crappy tank.

Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
House of El
Posted - 2006.04.04 08:43:00 - [24]
 

This is really the beuty of this game.

As DEF said, Omen is damage and zero tank, you'll either out damage your enemy or die.
The Maller is tank, you'll either outlast your enemy or die.

Arbitrator is a bit hard to place, but i'll put it in the tank-by-range category. If you can stay out of you enemy's gun range, your drones will do the killing for you Smile

All ships are basically good within their role. Persoanlly i'm a tanker, so I fly Maller/Saci more than Omen/Zealot. But I serioulsy prefer the Omen's look, so sexy Cool

Kard Fater
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2006.04.04 08:45:00 - [25]
 

"...that WCS should be on combat setups.."
WTF? Who said that? Lilly the Lollipop?
WCS even makes Funshine Bear cry, check it: http://www.care-bears.com/CareBears/html/about/funshine.html
Maybe they said WCS should NOT be on combat setups, mmmkay?

F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2006.04.04 08:53:00 - [26]
 

There's a lot of exclamation points in the char pics for a thread about HACs. Does that blow anyone eleses' mind? Or is it just me?

LWMaverick
Posted - 2006.04.04 09:02:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Rengret Erekeck
or that WCS should be on combat setups..

what I have to ask is, do omens really suck, or was it just my 20k SP in gunnery and the WCS




Laughing

Wcs are NOT a "must"!

Its a t1 cruiser, fully insure it, and put whatever you can afford on it.

You should probably fit a damage mod or two, and go with an active tank ( because of the low skills ).

With a decent fit and semi-okay skills you can get a pretty decent damage output.

/Mav

Mila Prestoc
Posted - 2006.04.04 09:24:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 04/04/2006 09:25:37
WCS should be used on ships you can't afford to lose, but then it probably isn't wise to fly ships you can't afford to lose anyway. Only if they are hard to find (ie. HAC's such as Vegabond which are really overpriced and a pain to get) are WCS really worth it. Those slots used by WCS's ruin a setup, they could complete a tank or add damage.

In small group situations the Omen is great where you want combined firepower, have some frigate tacklers and a few Omens and even BC's won't last long. Have the frigates use webbers + scrambler and you can fit cap modules in mids.

It is cheap and with insurance you only really lose < 1m + whatever modules fitted. Since its just a damage ship and bringing it home is a bonus fit it with standard tech 1 or common named items from NPC drops. Your costs will be low so dont need to worry about losing it while you learn the game.

For it to really work as a damage dealing ship you want gunnery level 5 and the supporting gunnery skills at 4 at least with the turret at 4 or if you plan to stay with cruiser sized ships then level 5.

Trefnis
Minmatar
LOST IDEA
C0VEN
Posted - 2006.04.04 09:54:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: F'nog
There's a lot of exclamation points in the char pics for a thread about HACs. Does that blow anyone eleses' mind? Or is it just me?


It is just you, omen is not a hac. :P

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.04.04 09:58:00 - [30]
 

the omen does a small amount more damage with lasers (1/15 more, or 6.67%) if and ONLY if you have cruiser 5.

with less, the maller is better for DPS and tank. even with cruiser 5, you're probably better off in a maller


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