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Aloysius Knight
Minmatar
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.03.31 06:38:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Aloysius Knight on 31/03/2006 12:10:13
yes boys and girls its pertiotion time, once again minmatar have been gimped (yeah i know no surprise reallyRolling Eyes)

so here i was looking though the stats on sis when they first came out....

The Archon was commissioned by the Amarr Navy to act
as a personnel and fighter carrier. The order to create the
ship came as part of a bah bah bah we are noob ammarrs bah bah bah bah

Amarr Carrier Skill Bonuses:
50% bonus to Energy and Shield transfer range per level
5% bonus to all Armor resistances per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules
Can deploy 1 additional Fighter per level
200% bonus to Fighter control range


mmm tankalisis



The Chimera’s design is based upon the Kairiola,
bah bah bah some random noob crap bah bah bahaahhaba bah

Caldari Carrier Skill Bonuses:
50% bonus to Energy and Shield transfer range per level
5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules
Can deploy 1 additional Fighter per level
200% bonus to Fighter control range

mmm again tankalisis


Sensing the need for a more moderately-priced version of
the Nyx, bah bah bah we are sexy man hoes bah bah bah

Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses:
50% bonus to Shield and Armor transfer range per level
10% bonus to deployed Fighters’ damage per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules
Can deploy 1 additional Fighter per level
200% bonus to Fighter control range

mmm gankalisis


Essentially a pared-down version of its big brother the
Hel, the Nidhoggur nonetheless displays the same austerity
of vision evident in its sibling. Quite purposefully created
for nothing less than all-out warfare, and quite comfortable
with that fact
, the Nidhoggur will no doubt find itself a
mainstay on many a battlefield.

Minmatar Carrier Skill Bonuses:
50% bonus to Shield and Armor transfer range per level
5% reduction in Shield and Armor transfer duration per
level

99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules
Can deploy 1 additional Fighter per level
200% bonus to Fighter control range


....oh dear lord *stab myself in the face 50 times*

"5% reduction in Shield and Armor transfer duration per
level"

yes this is what drove me to such despare, such a gimped bonus, i dear say since the typhoon
wtf were the deves thinking
Oveur "OH MY GOD GUYS WERE IS THE PATCH THE WHINING ON THE FORUMS IS STOPING ME FROM DRINKING!!!"
Dev team : we're almost there just need to finsih the minmatar carrier "
Oveur: "just put a random bonus in no one will notice" goes back to drunk forum horing

and so on...

we end up with this CRAPTASTIS bonus

the activation time on a Capital transver array is 10 seconds
so at carrier lvl 5 we're looking at a reduction of......about 1-2 sec


wow dear god someone touch me im so overweled by its coolness....oh wait no im not
for the love of god change it to SOMETHING WORTH HAVING!!!

like a 5% REDUCTION TO CAP USE OF ARRAYS PER LVL!!!
or how about staying close to the description?

"Quite purposefully created
for nothing less than all-out warfare"

...yeah so you give the galentie one the damg bonus Crying or Very sad

*deep breath*
ok im calm now



Sun Ra
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2006.03.31 06:49:00 - [2]
 

Once again we get the short end of the stick, im sure gallente will find somethign to whine about tho

Omatje
Minmatar
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.03.31 06:51:00 - [3]
 

lol, they did it again...

it's almost as usefull as a targetpainter bonusLaughing

Eximius Josari
New Atlantis Tek Corporation
Posted - 2006.03.31 06:54:00 - [4]
 

10% added jump range per lvl? Personally I think that fits the whole Minmatar theme.

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2006.03.31 06:59:00 - [5]
 

;),
id say the bonus has to b changed - clearly.

Golan Trevize
Amarr
Body Count Inc.
Posted - 2006.03.31 07:08:00 - [6]
 

I agree minnies need a diff bonus , Thanatos needs to have its bonus changed to +5% fighters and then we have some sort of balance.


TheDevilsJury
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.03.31 07:11:00 - [7]
 

what about a fighter speed bonus? That fits minmatar ships just fine. Not sure what % would be ideal though.

Aloysius Knight
Minmatar
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.03.31 07:14:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: TheDevilsJury
what about a fighter speed bonus? That fits minmatar ships just fine. Not sure what % would be ideal though.

oh god no

would gimp us even more as our fighters would orbit to fast and then won;t hit crap Evil or Very Mad

Acwron
Posted - 2006.03.31 07:20:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Acwron on 31/03/2006 07:19:02
Quote:
Gallente Battleship / Rank 8 / SP: 1509099 of 2048000
·Currently training to: level 5
·Time left: 4 days, 21 hours, 21 minutes, 45 seconds

Minmatar Battleship / Rank 8 / SP: 2048000 of 2048000


Even if they fix the Carrier (unlikly): Moros > Naglfar.

Hamatitio
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2006.03.31 07:23:00 - [10]
 

not the pertition!

Aeaus
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
Posted - 2006.03.31 07:27:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Sun Ra
im sure gallente will find somethign to whine about tho


Yea... we get the ugly carrier =[

My grandfather
Amarr
Clan Shadow Wolf
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.03.31 07:30:00 - [12]
 

Hmm what is so wrong with this one? It basically means your mates who will be flying with you will be repairing 5% faster on both armor and shield. That's not bad. All it does is make the minnie carrier more in need of a fleet, but making it a stronger fleet as a whole. I wouldn't call it gimped, it's just a matter of teamplay vs a more 'solo-suitable' bonus.

As a pilot in a fleet, I'd prefer having the minnie carrier near over the rest. Simply because for a fully skilled carrier-pilot, that means I can take 25% more damage :p

Aloysius Knight
Minmatar
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.03.31 07:33:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: My grandfather
Hmm what is so wrong with this one? It basically means your mates who will be flying with you will be repairing 5% faster on both armor and shield. That's not bad. All it does is make the minnie carrier more in need of a fleet, but making it a stronger fleet as a whole. I wouldn't call it gimped, it's just a matter of teamplay vs a more 'solo-suitable' bonus.

As a pilot in a fleet, I'd prefer having the minnie carrier near over the rest. Simply because for a fully skilled carrier-pilot, that means I can take 25% more damage :p


i'll use a qutoe from another tread i posted on
"minmatar is the worst of them all, only train for this if your hardcore minmatar
as its the SUCKYEST....yes SCUKYEST Carrier of them all, anyone who tells you other wise is ether

a.on drugs
b.has never flown one
c.a moron
d. a troll
or my favote
e. all of the above"

to you Evil or Very Mad

Hohenheim OfLight
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.03.31 08:21:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Aloysius Knight


i'll use a qutoe from another tread i posted on
"minmatar is the worst of them all, only train for this if your hardcore minmatar"
as its the SUCKYEST....yes SCUKYEST Carrier of them all, anyone who tells you other wise is ether

a.on drugs
b.has never flown one
c.a moron
d. a troll
or my favote
e. all of the above"

to you Evil or Very Mad


Good god i better stop this at once then, Razz

Minmatar Battleship / Rank 8 / SP: 696480 of 2048000
·Currently training to: level 5
·Time left: 30 days, 37 minutes, 54 seconds
·SP done: 20650 of 1351520

Would not want to waste 30 days, nah i guess i am just hardcore minmatar. Twisted Evil

Duct Tape 4TW!

Ps

Yes tha bouns is crap but arnt all mini bounus's would be nice if it was change to some sort of dmg, thermal or what ever it is mini's are ment to be.

Khaldorn Murino
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.03.31 08:27:00 - [15]
 

Minmatar are the Ultimate Undeniable Underdogs of EVE, were meant to be crap. The Dev team arent stupid, this is the way it was designed. Im just used to it now :)

Revel in it.

My grandfather
Amarr
Clan Shadow Wolf
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.03.31 08:37:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Originally by: My grandfather
Hmm what is so wrong with this one? It basically means your mates who will be flying with you will be repairing 5% faster on both armor and shield. That's not bad. All it does is make the minnie carrier more in need of a fleet, but making it a stronger fleet as a whole. I wouldn't call it gimped, it's just a matter of teamplay vs a more 'solo-suitable' bonus.

As a pilot in a fleet, I'd prefer having the minnie carrier near over the rest. Simply because for a fully skilled carrier-pilot, that means I can take 25% more damage :p


i'll use a qutoe from another tread i posted on
"minmatar is the worst of them all, only train for this if your hardcore minmatar
as its the SUCKYEST....yes SCUKYEST Carrier of them all, anyone who tells you other wise is ether

a.on drugs
b.has never flown one
c.a moron
d. a troll
or my favote
e. all of the above"

to you Evil or Very Mad


I would be 'b.' then. Problem is not a lot of people fly them, just because they think they suck Razz

All I'm saying is: if you had the choice, what fleet would you prefer to be in? One with a minnie carrier or the exact same with a different one? (and I'm not talking about flying it yourself, just being in a fleet with it)

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2006.03.31 08:45:00 - [17]
 

5% increase in repairer speed is equal to a 5.26% increase in the tank of whatever it's remote repairing. At level 4, it's getting a 20% increase, which is a 25% increase in the tank of whatever it's repairing. at level 5, it's a 25% increase, which translates to a 33.33% increase in repair rate of remote repairers.

So are you telling me that a 1/3 increase in the maximum repair rate of your remote repairers and boosters is worthless in a fleet combat situation? Put two and two together here, guys. The Amarr and Caldari carriers are good at tanking themselves, the gallente one is a good damage dealer and the minmatar one is the best at high-end logistics. If that's what it's good for, that's what you should be using it for.

My grandfather
Amarr
Clan Shadow Wolf
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.03.31 08:47:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Nyphur
5% increase in repairer speed is equal to a 5.26% increase in the tank of whatever it's remote repairing. At level 4, it's getting a 20% increase, which is a 25% increase in the tank of whatever it's repairing. at level 5, it's a 25% increase, which translates to a 33.33% increase in repair rate of remote repairers.

So are you telling me that a 1/3 increase in the maximum repair rate of your remote repairers and boosters is worthless in a fleet combat situation? Put two and two together here, guys. The Amarr and Caldari carriers are good at tanking themselves, the gallente one is a good damage dealer and the minmatar one is the best at high-end logistics. If that's what it's good for, that's what you should be using it for.


exactly my point. My numbers were just a bit off Razz

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2006.03.31 09:13:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: My grandfather
exactly my point. My numbers were just a bit off Razz

Mine would have been, too, if I hadn't realised something yesterday. The bonus in DPS tanked from an increase in repair rate or resistance isn't a flat increase (25% increase for 25% more DPS tanked), it's calculated as ((1/((100-"percentage bonus")/100))-1)*100. At 50% increase, you'd get double effectiveness.

Compound this bonus with the 15% reduced cycle time and cap usage from the armoured warfare links and you end up with a reduction of 36.25%, which increases the DPS repaired from your remote repairers by ((1/((100-36.25)/100))-1)*100 = 56.86%.
If that compounds with the 5% repair systems duration implant (i'm not sure if it works on remote repairers), you get 39.4375%, which is ((1/((100-39.4375)/100))-1)*100 = 65.1%
In contrast, other carriers in this fleet would get just the 15% and the 5%, giving a total 19.25% increase, which translates to an increase in repair rate of ((1/((100-19.25)/100))-1)*100 = 23.8%. Not too impressive next to 65%.

65% better repair rate from your remote repairers and a fast enough cycle time to switch targets as rapidly as your enemy can shout the new target out over teamspeak. That's useless? I don't think so.

Sun Ra
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2006.03.31 09:15:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight

Yes tha bouns is crap but arnt all mini bounus's would be nice if it was change to some sort of dmg, thermal or what ever it is mini's are ment to be.


Nop the tempests is fine, wouldnt fly one without bs 5 Cool

Aloysius Knight
Minmatar
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.03.31 09:19:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Nyphur
5% increase in repairer speed is equal to a 5.26% increase in the tank of whatever it's remote repairing. At level 4, it's getting a 20% increase, which is a 25% increase in the tank of whatever it's repairing. at level 5, it's a 25% increase, which translates to a 33.33% increase in repair rate of remote repairers.

So are you telling me that a 1/3 increase in the maximum repair rate of your remote repairers and boosters is worthless in a fleet combat situation? Put two and two together here, guys. The Amarr and Caldari carriers are good at tanking themselves, the gallente one is a good damage dealer and the minmatar one is the best at high-end logistics. If that's what it's good for, that's what you should be using it for.



yeah right and factoring in locking time and the cap drain of said arrays means you'll have **** all cap left for your own tank Rolling Eyes

going by quickfits cap simulation your cap with 5 LARGE arrays will last only 2mins
thats about 3120 armour every 6-8 sec just think about 5 capitale size Shocked
wow thats so handy to have Rolling Eyes sure you'll be able to keep one person alive MAYBE
but also leases you with no cap for your own tanking
and who the **** tanks in a fleet battle?

id rather have a reduction to cap use so i can run my reps LONGER then some crap of being able to rep 1-2 sec faster

5% reduction to cap use now thats waaaayyy more betta

"the best at high-end logistics" Rolling Eyes

Aloysius Knight
Minmatar
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.03.31 09:29:00 - [22]
 

Capital armour rep

activation use 2400 cap
armour reped 2000
cycle time 10 sec

5 on a minmatar carrer=
amour reped =10000
cap use=12000

so your caps gone in about 4 cylces of your reps not counting in your own tanking mods

enther in 20 tempests with each doing 1200 damg evey salvo (random amount of damg, with carbon lead 200 damg a shot x 6 guns) tahts 24000 damg every 10 sec
=you lose
OR

a couple of ew bloats come alont and jam you =you lose

and btw id rather be in a fleet with a gallentie ammarr or caldari carrier then minmatar( even though i love the ships and are traning for them regadless)

My grandfather
Amarr
Clan Shadow Wolf
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.03.31 09:50:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Capital armour rep

activation use 2400 cap
armour reped 2000
cycle time 10 sec

5 on a minmatar carrer=
amour reped =10000
cap use=12000

so your caps gone in about 4 cylces of your reps not counting in your own tanking mods

enther in 20 tempests with each doing 1200 damg evey salvo (random amount of damg, with carbon lead 200 damg a shot x 6 guns) tahts 24000 damg every 10 sec
=you lose
OR

a couple of ew bloats come alont and jam you =you lose

and btw id rather be in a fleet with a gallentie ammarr or caldari carrier then minmatar( even though i love the ships and are traning for them regadless)



EW is _always_ a problem, regardless of whatever ship you're flying. So basically what you're saying is if 20 tempests gather around your target and all start shooting, the target still has time enough to warp out. How in gods name is that bad?

oh and btw, you say you still prefer a different carrier. May I ask why?

My grandfather
Amarr
Clan Shadow Wolf
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.03.31 09:52:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: My grandfather
exactly my point. My numbers were just a bit off Razz

Mine would have been, too, if I hadn't realised something yesterday. The bonus in DPS tanked from an increase in repair rate or resistance isn't a flat increase (25% increase for 25% more DPS tanked), it's calculated as ((1/((100-"percentage bonus")/100))-1)*100. At 50% increase, you'd get double effectiveness.

Compound this bonus with the 15% reduced cycle time and cap usage from the armoured warfare links and you end up with a reduction of 36.25%, which increases the DPS repaired from your remote repairers by ((1/((100-36.25)/100))-1)*100 = 56.86%.
If that compounds with the 5% repair systems duration implant (i'm not sure if it works on remote repairers), you get 39.4375%, which is ((1/((100-39.4375)/100))-1)*100 = 65.1%
In contrast, other carriers in this fleet would get just the 15% and the 5%, giving a total 19.25% increase, which translates to an increase in repair rate of ((1/((100-19.25)/100))-1)*100 = 23.8%. Not too impressive next to 65%.

65% better repair rate from your remote repairers and a fast enough cycle time to switch targets as rapidly as your enemy can shout the new target out over teamspeak. That's useless? I don't think so.


hmm that makes it even better... Minnie carriers for all!

Dtech
Minmatar
The Suicide Kings
True Reign
Posted - 2006.03.31 10:04:00 - [25]
 

Well I do not mind the minmatar carrier having bonuses geared to fleet support, but I do agree with the OP that the current bonuses are not as good as they could be. Assuming you have minmatar carrier lvl 4, the current bonus will knock off 2 seconds from your cycle time on your capital remote armor repairers. Now my idea of a using a carrier properly in a battle is having it in a safespot repairing ships that warp to it(I believe if you are piloting a carrier and being shot at, you F*CKED UP Very Happy ). So I really don't think 2 seconds is going to make much difference in that situation.

For an improvement increasing the bonus to 10% (gal has 10% bonus, don't see why we shouldn't) would be good and then changing it to like the OP suggested a reduction in cap for remote repairers (both armor and shield) or maybe an increase in the amount of what is repaired.

Another idea would be to abandon the whole fleet support concept and give it a unique fighter bonus like a bonus to fighter HP, fighter resistances, or fighter tracking.

Orvy
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.03.31 10:24:00 - [26]
 

I think I know how it works after playing Eve for 2 years. We matari have to stay gimped so that some amarr and caldari pilots can satisfy their complex of superiority, they are paying customers after all Very Happy

On the topic: matari need developers attention on many areas:
1. Target Painter bonus
2. Projectiles (people say that lower dps is compensated with ability to choose damage type, but it takes 10secs to change ammo in battle and even before that you need to find the enemy's weak resist, which is insane)
3. Our lovely carrier is mentioned above

At least Typhoon will become better in the next patch and I do hope that Tux will 'look into projectiles' with a positive for us, matari pilots, outcome.

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2006.03.31 10:26:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Nyphur on 31/03/2006 10:30:12
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
yeah right and factoring in locking time and the cap drain of said arrays means you'll have **** all cap left for your own tank Rolling Eyes

going by quickfits cap simulation your cap with 5 LARGE arrays will last only 2mins

Don't roll your eyes at me. You're the one trying to run more armour repairers than you can constantly.
It's the best carrier for high end logistics. Just because you don't think it has the cap for running a huge number of remote repairers doesn't mean it's useless at it.

5% reduced cap? You'd rather have 25% increased tank than 33%? Actually, that might be better because currently you're using 33% more cap to repair that 33% more. But the increased speed increases the potential maximum repair rate of the carrier. If it's for a short-term pvp engagement, high repairing for a short time is exactly what's needed.

Originally by: Aloysius Knight
Capital armour rep

activation use 2400 cap
armour reped 2000
cycle time 10 sec

5 on a minmatar carrer=
amour reped =10000
cap use=12000

so your caps gone in about 4 cylces of your reps not counting in your own tanking mods



What the hell are you doing fitting 5 capital repairers on a carrier and trying to run them all at once? Fit some weapons, damnit, and maybe one capital repairer and one large. Your speed increase means you can cycle targets with the repairer a lot faster so you don't need to have 5 of the things. Only capital ships need repped with capital remote reppers because only capital ships have enough HP that doing so wouldn't repair them over 100% and waste capacitor. For repairing BS, you use larges and you only do it to augment their tank when they're low. There's only so much a carrier can do, you're not going to tank 20 tempests or keep 20 alive constantly.

Professor McFly
Posted - 2006.03.31 10:29:00 - [28]
 

Won't this make 2 Minmatar carriers tanking each other much better than any other 2 carriers?

Orvy
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.03.31 10:33:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Orvy on 31/03/2006 10:34:18
Originally by: Professor McFly
Won't this make 2 Minmatar carriers tanking each other much better than any other 2 carriers?


No thank you, I'd rather engage in the act of 'self-satisfaction' Very Happy

Aloysius Knight
Minmatar
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.03.31 10:41:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
yeah right and factoring in locking time and the cap drain of said arrays means you'll have **** all cap left for your own tank Rolling Eyes

going by quickfits cap simulation your cap with 5 LARGE arrays will last only 2mins

Don't roll your eyes at me. You're the one trying to run more armour repairers than you can constantly.
It's the best carrier for high end logistics. Just because you don't think it has the cap for running a huge number of remote repairers doesn't mean it's useless at it.

5% reduced cap? You'd rather have 25% increased tank than 33%? Actually, that might be better because currently you're using 33% more cap to repair that 33% more. But the increased speed increases the potential maximum repair rate of the carrier. If it's for a short-term pvp engagement, high repairing for a short time is exactly what's needed.


Rolling Eyes you have no idea
and btw
a.on drugs
b.has never flown one
c.a moron
d. a troll
e. all of the above
your a E

"If it's for a short-term pvp engagement, high repairing for a short time is exactly what's needed"

short-term pvp engagement? wtf is a carrier doing there, thise puppys are for FLEET FIGHTS
and why i prefer other carriers atm?

galentie 1 can sit at ss doign the EXAT SAME THING of reping ships while having a 10% to fithger damg per lvl on ex for no 1-2 reduction in cycle of arrays hmmmmm

amarr and caldarie can sit in a fleet and do the same thing while being able take alot more damg then a minmatar one

pure and simple the bonus sucks

"But the increased speed increases the potential maximum repair rate of the carrier."
what go is it to be able to reapi really fast if you have no cap?

"Just because you don't think it has the cap for running a huge number of remote repairers doesn't mean it's useless at it."

ohhhhh so logicistic crusers don't get bonus to reduction in cap use of arrays?

"It's the best carrier for high end logistics" roflmao you really think that?
with a 2 sec recuction in arrays makes it out perform all the other carrers at logistics? Rolling Eyes


Logistics Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in Energy Transfer Array capacitor use and
10% reduction in Remote Armor Repair System capacitor use per level

or this one

Logistics Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Link efficiency
and 10% reduction in Shield Transfer Array capacitor use
per level


i have no objections to being a healer class ship, i rather like the idea of it, but i want to be GOOD AT IT not some lameass bonus that "trys" to pass off as a good bonus


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