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blankseplocked The Bounty System is an Embarassment to CCP and a cruel joke!
 
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Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2006.03.14 09:43:00 - [1]
 

The most embarassing thing I can think of in this game is the bounty system. I see post after post on this forum of well intentioned newer players to the game that put bounties on their pirate killers not knowing that they are further paying the pirate. The pirate loves to get bounties on them because once the bounty surpasses the cost of the clone by a good bit, its an extra 5 or 10 million isk in the pirate's pocket. He merely needs to get a friend or even alt to kill him in only his pod and payday is there.

The use of jump clones makes this even worse. Previously the bounty would at least have to get higher than the value of the implants to be worht it but now all they pirate needs to do is to be able to pay for his clone.

Im personally ambivolent to piracy. I see pirates as part of the game and that is fine. They kill targets but generally the poeple in lowsec know the dangers they are facing. CCP is far more cruel than the pirates because they dangle the carrot of bounties right in front of the nose of the newly killed player, griefing them with the messed up system.

Hey CCP, for decency and honor sake, turn it off; disable the ability to add bounties to players until you can fix it. And fix the system by Kali. Its far more important as a fundamental to the game than to add another ship to the game.

My suggestion (not original but one im in favor of) is that the bounty paid out would be equal to 80% of the ISK destroyed and that these bounties can be collected for ship kills as well as pod kills. This would mean that there would never be proffit in collecting your own bounty and this would allow a whole new industry to grow up in eve to balance the piracy industry and give more balance to the game.

Ank Myrandor
Amarr
Lions Of Judah
Freedom of Elbas
Posted - 2006.03.14 09:47:00 - [2]
 

ssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!


it's great , pirates war each other also , and their losses they can gain with other bounties :P some pirates like to get involved with other good players , and your bounty is you'r biggest pride ingame ^^

CCP bounties ftW !

U got that ? if you don't :P put a bounty on my head Razz

Hinik
Grumpy Old Farts
Gruntfuttocks
Posted - 2006.03.14 09:56:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Ank Myrandor
ssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!


it's great , pirates war each other also , and their losses they can gain with other bounties :P some pirates like to get involved with other good players , and your bounty is you'r biggest pride ingame ^^

CCP bounties ftW !

U got that ? if you don't :P put a bounty on my head Razz


Exactly

even though I think my bounty just about outdoes my clone... maybe, I'd never consider podding myself. appart from the implants I have in there it's a stupid thing to do.

I take pride in my bounty... though nobody has added to it in months Sad

Kahor
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.03.14 09:57:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Kahor on 14/03/2006 10:05:13
Most pirates I know (and respect) wouldn't claim their own bounty, it's a pride among pirates to be 'hated' enough so to have a bounty on your head, most respectfull pirates won't ever claim their own bounty...and the others...ignore them, dully, it's the best grief you can cause to them.

Edit : I admit there could be some sort of change to the system to improve it, but your idea doesn't sound any good to me (what bout people pirating in cruisers sized ships and having 40 mil bountys on them ? It would also mean any anti pirate that have a neg sec status would be hunted for his bounty while not being a pirate...etc, you need something to put 'player hate' into numbers.)

Rainis
Posted - 2006.03.14 10:01:00 - [5]
 

Ssshhh you, i agree with the original poster, i see lots of people getting rich doing this loophole, quite frustrating Evil or Very Mad

Kaleeb
0ne Percent.
Posted - 2006.03.14 10:03:00 - [6]
 

While alot of pirates do colect their own bounties some of us (ex) pirates are quite proud of them and keep them. I do agree that a new system needs to be implemented.

For kill rights players should be able to go to the concord bureau and buy the kill rights on a pirate and thus entering in a say a week contract to kill him. Would give the bounty hunter class a new outlook.

Rainis
Posted - 2006.03.14 10:06:00 - [7]
 

i recon that any money that is put on someone should be imprinted with there I.P or anything like that, that can identify the player, not just the single character but the actual player, and then u could make it that the money can never be returned to that player. Shocked

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2006.03.14 10:09:00 - [8]
 

Cant be done like that. IPS shift and players often use different credit cards for different accounts or have friends do the podding for them. The mechanism needs to be more robust.

Velsharoon
Gallente
Arcane Velshologies
Posted - 2006.03.14 14:14:00 - [9]
 

I collected mine once when i turned merc to avoid getting called primary, put it back on when i turned pirate - clone cost

Its an ego thing, even if it was 100s of millions i wouldnt claim it, let the guys who kill me have it. Some of us recognise that its a game :)

Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.03.14 14:29:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Garreck on 14/03/2006 14:29:39
It certainly would be nice to see some love given to the bounty hunting system. I've seen a lot of ideas discussed in this forum that would probably be pretty cool if tweaked properly. It seems, though, that ccp has other priorities, as I don't see the bounty system discussed at all in dev blogs and such.

What's in place now is "good enough," I suppose. Any pirate worthy of the title is proud of his bounty...heck, I'm not a pirate and I'm kind've fond of mine (small though it may be.) Most folks don't collect on their bounties, and it's entirely possible to commission folks through this very forum for a kill if you don't want to risk a pirate claiming the bounty you just put on him.

Doc Extropy
Gallente
Cruentus Invicta
The Covenant Alliance
Posted - 2006.03.14 14:30:00 - [11]
 

Best solution I can come up with:

Killed bad guys should pay their bounties themselves as well (to CONCORD) - if they don't have enough, from all money they collect 50% will be taken until their debt is zero.

Kaleeb
0ne Percent.
Posted - 2006.03.14 14:36:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Doc Extropy
Best solution I can come up with:

Killed bad guys should pay their bounties themselves as well (to CONCORD) - if they don't have enough, from all money they collect 50% will be taken until their debt is zero.


no and totally unfair

Kery Nysell
Caldari
Nysell Incorporated
Posted - 2006.03.14 14:37:00 - [13]
 

I never added to the bounties of the scumbags that destroyed my ships and podded me after accepting a ransom.

They cost me money, I won't spend more money just to inflate their egos.

Elegant
Posted - 2006.03.14 14:44:00 - [14]
 

A better system for the bounty would be to have a certain percentage of the bounty amount payed out whenever you destroy the person's ship. Have the percentage be based on insurance payout (regardless of if the ship was insured) to prevent farming yourself in cheap ships. That amount is then split by everyone on the killmail.

Pod's get a percentage payoff based on clone cost.

Thus it would rarely be profitable to pod yourself, but there's definite incentive to stalk and kill the person with the bounty repeatedly.

Example: Yarr The Pirate gets a 10 million isk bounty on his head. You destroy his t1 frig you get maybe 1% of the bounty, 100,000 isk. Little risk, little reward. His bounty is now 9,900,00. Next he undocks in a shiny BS. You and a friend destroy that and split say 30% of the bounty, say 1.8 mill a piece. The bounty is now around 6,600,000.
You also catch Yarr's pod this time. His clone is expensive so you get another 30% of the bounty, 2,200,000 split between you and a friend. The bounty ends up at around 4,400,000. You, the bounty hunter made a quick 6.6 mill plus whatever loot you got, plus whatever Yarr's violated corpse gets on open market.

Since this system of bounty is actually an effective incentive to attack and pod the target while still having it be generally unprofitable to farm your own bounty, you get larger bounties and thus bounty hunting becomes a more valid profession..

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2006.03.14 14:56:00 - [15]
 

The goal of a proper bounty system is to set up a PLAYER RUN balancing mechanism to piracy, not to punnish that horrible pirate for killing your precious ship.

Its a game friend. Treat is as such.

Valdir Mustafar
Endgame.
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2006.03.14 15:05:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Rells
The goal of a proper bounty system is to set up a PLAYER RUN balancing mechanism to piracy, not to punnish that horrible pirate for killing your precious ship.

Its a game friend. Treat is as such.



Sorry... but isnt that two sides of the same thing?... no one is going to add bointy to a pirate who hasnt ganked anyone yet and no one will add a bounty without the hope of the pirate getting what he "deserves" for ganking..?


Elegant
Posted - 2006.03.14 15:09:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Elegant on 14/03/2006 15:09:33
Rells, was that addressed to me or the guy talking about forcing people to pay their own bounties? Cuz just to be clear, mine was player-based, that original 10 mill bounty in the example was assigned just like you do right now. Only the division of the bounty is handled by "the Man".

And any antipirate vibe you might have gotten from me was just to be humorous, especially considering my chosen profession. YARRRR!!

Commander Nikolas
Gallente
Endstati0n
Ev0ke
Posted - 2006.03.14 16:01:00 - [18]
 

To Hinik: I have only ever recieved 4 bounties above 10mil. 2 of those were from ATUF members. We all know that ATUF are some of the most respectable pirates in eve... however the reality is that the other 99% that have choosen your profession aren't of the same caliber.


I don't know what I would be classed as in game. I hunt pirates because I enjoy fighting other players. There isn't much money in killing pirates... however they are almost always in a combat ship and usually shoot back if you can get enough scrams on them. A good bounty system would be nice. Getting paid always is but I see CCP working on each races second titian before they deal with it.

Zafriel
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2006.03.14 16:04:00 - [19]
 

NAME THE PIRATES THAT COLLECTED THEIR OWN BOUNTIES!

IF MOST PIRATES DO IT, YOU MUST HAVE A LONG LIST AND YOU CAN USE SEVERAL POSTS FOR THIS.

Zafriel
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2006.03.14 16:05:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Commander Nikolas
To Hinik: I have only ever recieved 4 bounties above 10mil. 2 of those were from ATUF members. We all know that ATUF are some of the most respectable pirates in eve... however the reality is that the other 99% that have choosen your profession aren't of the same caliber.





name your dishonerable pirates then, are they the ones that use logon exploit and log off in combat and such?Rolling Eyes

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2006.03.14 16:42:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Zafriel
NAME THE PIRATES THAT COLLECTED THEIR OWN BOUNTIES!

IF MOST PIRATES DO IT, YOU MUST HAVE A LONG LIST AND YOU CAN USE SEVERAL POSTS FOR THIS.


Rediculous post. Only CCP would have this information unless theay didnt care to store it. The pirates doing this arent posting it on the forums or anything. Do try to be rational.

Lux Simian
Posted - 2006.03.14 18:59:00 - [22]
 

The problem as I see it (as an objective outsider) is that there is no real threat of punishment for piracy other than being at risk from other players, which is kind of pretty much par of the territory.

Where as in a real life analogue a pirates face death (or prision) for their activitys when caught, all that happens is that you are back ready to go out again in a fresh new skin that is your clone.

Maybe the issue is with the avaliability of clones, ships, equipment and goods in such areas (most pirates in the analogue don't have Battleships and destroyers) and certainly don't experience anything in the way of health care. Certainly people will do business with them, but they can generally expect to be paying more (who'd ship expensive clones and materials into a frankly dangerous area where they'd likely be robbed).

Not that I am implying that Players shouldn't get clones, ships etc.. just that it should probably be expensive and rare to do so. In fact in most cases of Piracy the ship is what they are after.

Obviously I am not a pirate, but the system is clearly not working where placing bounties has little effect other than paying pirates further funds. How many pirates are simply out there for the fun of the killing other players?

Also it might encourage an situation where the paying of ransom or cargo tithes makes more sense to the pirate than wholesale massacre.

Some of the stories here make the piracy seem much more like terrorism and insurrection, rather than piracy. Think about it like this, if the US Navy or a major corporation lost even a small vessel to pirates operating openly from an area, would it really tolerate the existance of the supporting network behind it.

Not that I am suggesting this be the case, only that the situation currently existing doesn't make much sense.

Zafriel
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2006.03.14 19:07:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Zafriel
NAME THE PIRATES THAT COLLECTED THEIR OWN BOUNTIES!

IF MOST PIRATES DO IT, YOU MUST HAVE A LONG LIST AND YOU CAN USE SEVERAL POSTS FOR THIS.


Rediculous post. Only CCP would have this information unless theay didnt care to store it. The pirates doing this arent posting it on the forums or anything. Do try to be rational.


Your the one who says they do it, back it up


what if i say all curse coalition log off in combat and smack talk all the time, the macro mine and ebay the isk, im sure you would want to know who.

YOURS IS THE RIDICULOUS POST IF YOU CANT BACK IT UP...EMO!!!!

Kin Hanyerec
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.03.14 19:12:00 - [24]
 

a system could be to have a maximum bounty equal to 80% of the clone cost and the exceeding money going to the bounty of the next clone. As some people could get a lifetime bounty it should also have a time limit Rolling Eyes



Azlana
Posted - 2006.03.14 19:58:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Azlana on 14/03/2006 19:58:36
I agree with the OP, the bounty system is a big let down. When I first started playing I noticed the concord billboards and the most wanted list and was really impressed. As it turns out this initially very appealing game concept is rather hollow.

CPP must be able to come up with something better, it gets a bit painful after a while always having to explain to people that yes the bounty system is borked, and no it hasn't been replaced yet.

Bertram Vetold
Posted - 2006.03.14 20:30:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Kaleeb
While alot of pirates do colect their own bounties some of us (ex) pirates are quite proud of them and keep them. I do agree that a new system needs to be implemented.

For kill rights players should be able to go to the concord bureau and buy the kill rights on a pirate and thus entering in a say a week contract to kill him. Would give the bounty hunter class a new outlook.
]

This is the best idea concerning bounties I have read. Rather than being free-for-all let hunters purchase a kill right for a percentage of the bounty...say 10%...

A pierat has a bounty of 100 million then it costs you 10 million to buy a kill right for him/her and you have 10 days or so to kill them or loose the kill right and the cost to purchase it.

Ninjja
Minmatar
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
Posted - 2006.03.14 22:58:00 - [27]
 

From what i have read CCP is enhancing the bounty sytem in Kali. To what extent, only they really know.

When you are blown up and/or podded when you dont want to be, whether you are a miner or a pirate, has the same consequences. You lose your stuff and your implants. Some can afford to lose it all, pirates and non pirates alike.

The real difference is FINDING these people. Miners are pretty easy to find. Pirates are very difficult to find. Kali will balance that out a little biut more by enabling other forms of mining (such as comets and gas pockets) that arent so easily located.

But til then, we can work together as a community to find the pirates you wanna kill, and kill them. Takes work, but hey, thats more rewarding.

Bounties usually work best when the punishment for the WANTED comes after they have been "brought to justice". A loss of freedom upon collection of the bounty might make it a lil more dangerous to become a pirate.
some examples:
Cannot use station services
Can only use frigates for a certain amoutn of time
Cannot receive money from other players or use escrow
Other things that CONCORD controls

These of course are just rash ideas, but freedom, not money, is the most drastic loss to anyone.

I also think being able to put a bounty on anyone, regardless of thier security status should be alowed. A scout for barges should be held just as responsible as the gunboat. But once again, that may be fixed in Kali.

We CAN work together as a community to make this better. I have started a Most Wanted Thread and a Most Wanted Photobucket account (see link above my sig).

This at least helps knowing who is available to hunt down. And hopefully the thread will eventually have information on the pirates you are after (when people start asking i assume).

But overall, it is a game, lets not get too Huffy.


Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2006.03.14 23:08:00 - [28]
 

If you really want to make bounties hurt, make it cost the pirate. Sure, someone should have to put up their own money to place a bounty, but what if the players money was matched by an equal amount from the pirate's account, if the bounty were to be claimed?

This way, say I put 10m isk on a guys head. Now if he gets podded, I lose my 10m, but he loses another 10m as well, and the player who pods the pirate gets 20m isk.

While this doesn't completely eleminate the problem of pirates collecting their own bounties, it sure does put a lot of pressure on them not to get podded: they'd lose their clone + implants + 100% of the bounty ISK out of their own pocket. I fight on both sides of the argument, so I'm not really partial either way. But IMO this idea would put some sting into the concept of bounties. And make it even more profitable to specifically hunt someone.

What about the problem of not having the ISK? Well sir, you're broke now arn't ya? Better be careful and not get your sec low enough to actually get a bounty placed on you in the first place if you think you can't afford it.

UndergrounD
Caldari
The Water Margin Tech
Posted - 2006.03.14 23:44:00 - [29]
 

bounty payments should be based within the capitalist system that CCP currently promote.

you want someone to die, pay for it.

Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2006.03.15 00:29:00 - [30]
 

I had 2 corpmates on the billboards for the longest time with large bounties.

They never self claimed.

Silly generalizations ftl.


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