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blankseplocked Problems with Market pricing.
 
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Nyabinghi
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2006.03.11 02:01:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Nyabinghi on 11/03/2006 02:04:46
Well first I find it odd that most consumer goods is being sold at 10 to 100 X the price anyone is willing to buy it for in the region. What's up with that? If you can only afford to pay 5.00 ISK for water and everyone is selling it for 100.00 ISK wouldn't people die of dehydration?

But what's really got me vexed was buying some Synth Oil for 130. a barrel and going to Fran VI Moon 18 to sell it for what the market there said they'd pay: 272.00 and then when I'm docked all I can get for it is 5.00! I even double checked the market and location, I had it right. so why was I being offered 5.00 ISK when they advertise to buy at 272.00?

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.03.11 02:19:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Nyabinghi

Well first I find it odd that most consumer goods is being sold at 10 to 100 X the price anyone is willing to buy it for in the region. What's up with that? If you can only afford to pay 5.00 ISK for water and everyone is selling it for 100.00 ISK wouldn't people die of dehydration?


The sell and buy orders are set by players. Many regions don't have NPC buy orders for various trade goods, so there will generally be no well-priced orders for NPC trade goods in the region.
Originally by: Nyabinghi

But what's really got me vexed was buying some Synth Oil for 130. a barrel and going to Fran VI Moon 18 to sell it for what the market there said they'd pay: 272.00 and then when I'm docked all I can get for it is 5.00! I even double checked the market and location, I had it right. so why was I being offered 5.00 ISK when they advertise to buy at 272.00?

Did you check "minimum volume"?

Nyabinghi
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2006.03.11 03:23:00 - [3]
 

Min volume? So I have to sell a certain volume to get that price. This is new to me so I don't understand it.

F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2006.03.11 03:51:00 - [4]
 

Since it's synth oil, one of two things probably happened: you went to the wrong station; someone else filled the NPC buy orders and all that were left were the player-made ones.

Ispottraderoutes
Posted - 2006.03.11 04:09:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Nyabinghi
Edited by: Nyabinghi on 11/03/2006 02:04:46
Well first I find it odd that most consumer goods is being sold at 10 to 100 X the price anyone is willing to buy it for in the region. What's up with that? If you can only afford to pay 5.00 ISK for water and everyone is selling it for 100.00 ISK wouldn't people die of dehydration?

But what's really got me vexed was buying some Synth Oil for 130. a barrel and going to Fran VI Moon 18 to sell it for what the market there said they'd pay: 272.00 and then when I'm docked all I can get for it is 5.00! I even double checked the market and location, I had it right. so why was I being offered 5.00 ISK when they advertise to buy at 272.00?


Real world examples don't hold up in Eve. But just to entertain that thought, yes that does happen. See Enron and the manufactured California power outtages where they jacked up the price 20x+ and people couldn't pay it, people died because of power outages at stop lights, etc. That very much so happens in a free market where an essential commodity is priced so high no one can afford it.

Second, the reason that happened is because you got freightered. If there is an NPC buy order (And most trade goods in consumer and in industrial are npc buy orders, incidentally contrary to the above post. I've made hundreds of trade runs and sold to players maybe two or three times. The majority of the rest of the market are player powered, but not trade goods for the most part; an exception being things like NPC medallions and the like.) The market spikes when it receives goods. IE NPC has X amount of buy order out, if someone comes and fills that buy order, it doesn't go away like a player buy order, instead, it remains there at the same volume, but the price they are paying goes down by a good chunk. (Very rarely it'll go up for one spike, and then plummet.) Sometimes a player freighter (Which has a base capacity of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of m3) will "Strip mine" a market and fill up at one station, then dump it all at another, causing the price to plummet at that station. This is supposed to simulate supply and demand, but with the addition of freighters it basically simulates "suck and wtf!" simply because you can spend an hour on a trade route and have it get freightered right before you dock and then you just lost an hour with you having no control or reaction to it whatsoever to stop it aside from getting your goods there faster. Incidentally the prices restore themselves over time (Like a long time, it can take a day) but usually they just get reset when the servers get reset every night.

FYI the market can spike the other way too, IE if you are buying a lot from a single NPC, the price can go up instead of going down when you sell to them.

Ispottraderoutes
Posted - 2006.03.11 04:14:00 - [6]
 

Btw, if you get freightered on a route you regularly visit, and you know the standard price to be much higher you can leave the goods there and the next time you are in station you can just resell them. You can also move them elsewhere at a loss, but usually that sucks since you are then losing time AND money. There are skills that let you remotely place sells at stations too, so if you get that up you can just drop it there and never have to visit again, just the constellation or region, depending on your skill.

Nyabinghi
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2006.03.11 04:41:00 - [7]
 

Well it seems in my case I didn't have the min quantity.

I assume that the reason there is a Trade Goods section is so people can work buying/transporting/selling goods. But 80% of the time the market is upside down. So really what's the point? The only times I made good was runnin booze and manure in low security sectors. But other than that I find very little that's actually being bought anywhere for higher prices than it's being sold in other sectors.

As for selling stuff to fellow players it's still a mystery to me. I tried putting stuff on the market but it just sits there, even when I discount it at 20% off. I guess I gotta find the main stations/sectors people do searches in the market to buy items.

Alexis DeTocqueville
Na Geanna Fiaine
Posted - 2006.03.11 06:35:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ispottraderoutes


Real world examples don't hold up in Eve. But just to entertain that thought, yes that does happen. See Enron and the manufactured California power outtages where they jacked up the price 20x+ and people couldn't pay it, people died because of power outages at stop lights, etc. That very much so happens in a free market where an essential commodity is priced so high no one can afford it.



Adam Smith says water should cost more than most luxury items due to its essentialness to human life. He never quite explained why that doesn't happen in the real world though.

F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2006.03.11 07:53:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Nyabinghi
Well it seems in my case I didn't have the min quantity.

I assume that the reason there is a Trade Goods section is so people can work buying/transporting/selling goods. But 80% of the time the market is upside down. So really what's the point? The only times I made good was runnin booze and manure in low security sectors. But other than that I find very little that's actually being bought anywhere for higher prices than it's being sold in other sectors.

As for selling stuff to fellow players it's still a mystery to me. I tried putting stuff on the market but it just sits there, even when I discount it at 20% off. I guess I gotta find the main stations/sectors people do searches in the market to buy items.


The items have to be in demand for people to buy them. You may have simply put something up for sale that isn't wanted in that area. In another thread you mentioned Civ Shield Boosters. If you tried to sell those, chances are no one will buy them, because they are pretty useless after your first day.

You should check market history to see which items are in demand in your area. If something hasn't been bought recently, there's little chance you'll sell it if there are others already on the market.

Ispottraderoutes
Posted - 2006.03.11 10:56:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Alexis DeTocqueville
Originally by: Ispottraderoutes


Real world examples don't hold up in Eve. But just to entertain that thought, yes that does happen. See Enron and the manufactured California power outtages where they jacked up the price 20x+ and people couldn't pay it, people died because of power outages at stop lights, etc. That very much so happens in a free market where an essential commodity is priced so high no one can afford it.



Adam Smith says water should cost more than most luxury items due to its essentialness to human life. He never quite explained why that doesn't happen in the real world though.


Uh, it happens constantly wherever demand exceeds supply, maybe not in industrialized nations where water IS NOT a free market (but if it was privatized what makes you think a company like enron wouldn't **** the industry like they did power?), but in third world countries there's plenty of merchants that make a killing selling clean water or blocks of salt. It's been that way for a hell of a long time. In the days of Columbus up until the late 18th century sailors in ports like Port Royale would pay a week's worth of pay for a piece of fruit or vegetables that would stop them from getting scurvy. The same fruits and vegetables they could walk down a country road in England or Spain and pick off a tree for free.

ISD Libertina


ISD STAR
Posted - 2006.03.11 11:07:00 - [11]
 

if you dock at a station and look at the buy orders, ONLY the ones displayed in green actually affect your current location. So if you see only grey ones, check their location, their set effective range and minimum volume.

Out of the green ones displayed, only the best one for your location and your ammount of items you want to sell will match, none else.

Gadfly Hawke
Posted - 2006.03.11 15:28:00 - [12]
 

Most likely, you just arrived at your destination right after a freighter. That has happened to me on occasion, but it's rare. It's an aggravation. You just look over your market and pick another buyer somewhere else. Odds are, you'll still make a profit, even if it's not as much as you'd like. If you can't find a profitable trade somewhere else, just hanger the stuff until the price comes back.


Bolderine
Caldari
Posted - 2006.03.11 15:49:00 - [13]
 

It also happens by scams. When people get items from NPC drops etc that are practically worthless to sell, for example: the item is being sold at 100 isk buy nobody is buying higher than 20 isk.

They set up a sell order for a reasonable amount, say 90 isk to undercut sellers and attract buyers, and then set up a buy order for an enormous amount, 210 isk for example at another location. When the player buys the goods from them, they cancel the buy order and the player is left with goods that they can't get rid of without taking a massive loss.

Caveat emptor (Let the buyer beware).

Nyabinghi
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2006.03.11 23:23:00 - [14]
 

I wish there was a way of clicking on a system and seeing exactly what's in demand there. That way I can see if I can get it cheaper at the locale I am at. It help when I got 9 jumps to drop off Oxygen and I want to buy/sell along the way.

Good news is I put up some weapon related stuff for sale in Caldari space and it got snatched right up. Those people do like their weapon modules!

BTW, I had a laugh when I noticed Exotic Dancers were on the trade goods list. Is that transport or actual slave trading? Funnier still nobody wanted to pay what the Exotic Dancers were going for.

Drizit
Amarr
Posted - 2006.03.12 08:47:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Nyabinghi
Funnier still nobody wanted to pay what the Exotic Dancers were going for.



Who does? Cheaper lap dancers, that's what I say! Laughing


 

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