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blankseplocked "The Preacher" enters the No Spin Zone while Jane continues to duck it...The Factor is on tonight.
 
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Bill O'Reilly
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2003.09.07 05:28:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Bill O'Reilly on 07/09/2003 05:29:51
Welcome back to The Factor…I’m your host, Bill O’Reilly.
The extreme rabid hatred for persons that objectively look at the NVA situation and come down against the NVA is the subject of tonight’s Talking Points memo. The recent threats to put me, your humble correspondent on Kill-On-Sight lists because I demand accountability from the spinners in Jericho Fraction should come as no surprise. What should come as a surprise is that more people in the universe don’t stand up against this kind of pure hatred. Talking Points understands that both sides feel they are right – and both sides may have valid points against one another. But what you don’t see coming from one side is this kind of rabid, all consuming hatred of the other, and it’s starting to get out of control. Some people are calling for TTI to be griefed out of the game, simply to satisfy there own petty hatreds – and that is out of line. Talking Points hopes that those who are making those calls will be quickly sidelined, and forgotten.

And that’s the memo.

In the Top Story this evening, we’ve been trying to get Jade Constantine to enter the No Spin Zone for some time, and so far she has avoided us. But today, a high-ranking member of the NVA, The Preacher, enters the No Spin Zone.

Welcome to the program, Preacher.
Preacher: Hey Hey.
Bill O’Reilly: Now, there's been allot of back of forth on this issue for quite awhile, and most of us know the major points. What I want to question you on tonight is some of the specifics that seem to get spun allot - and this is by both sides I might add. So, after the war got rolling, what exactly happened from a tactical viewpoint?
Preacher: Alliance war or civil war? So many wars, I can’t keep up.
Bill O’Reilly: The alliance war first..
Preacher: At first it seemed like no issue. We had fleets of 30 ships or more forming to confront evo/xan. We'd chase them around a little camp them a little, then go back to our business. After a while, perhaps from sheer boredom, the 30 ships turned into 20, 15, 10 etc. Also because of a loss of ships too.
Bill O’Reilly: And they started scoring on you?
Preacher: Yeah. They’d get 1 here and there, maybe 1 or 2 in a big fight.
Bill O’Reilly: So it started out well, and then it started going south.
Preacher: Yep. Constant pressure did our fleet in.
Bill O’Reilly: All right, so then this peace proposal comes up.
Bill O’Reilly: Now two points I want to make to you. Point one is that the major Jericho Fraction mouthpiece, Jade Constantine, was never anti-pirate before, and point two, attacked TTI before joining VA. The question I have for you, is did you and your corp. support ejecting TTI, or did not support it? And why, regardless.
Preacher: My decision and my request was that any vote be withheld for at least 1 week
That’s because we had forces forming up for a counter attack in fountain, myself and 3 other battleships we in new Caldari about to launch into fountain, and join numerous other small attack groups to see if we could draw the enemy out of venal to buy some time to regroup.
Bill O’Reilly: Ok, but don't duck the issue - aside from that request, did you support or not support ejectment and more importantly, why did you support either side?
Preacher: I passed this info on to my CEO who suggested it but was told that "evo/xan want a decision now". In the initial vote OCC supported it by vote of my CEO Gafton, yes. We supported it because were told TTI could not "up" their war contribution. It was either get TTI and the enemy out or die in Venal.
Bill O’Reilly: All right, for the record, what was TTI's war contribution?
Preacher: The best we ever got from them was ships at BYOM. But that’s a touchy issue. That was their offer but some TTI say we never asked for anything else.
Bill O’Reilly: Could you clarify for us what BYOM level? There's been some talk it was BYOM straight, and some have said BYOM PE5.
Preacher: It was BYOM PE5. Roark told me that directly. Now they are saying VA never asked for anything more.
Bill O’Reilly: Ok. Now, what specifically did you want more? Just you personally…
Preacher
Preacher: I wanted to see ships being replaced very cheap if not free. That’s all we needed. We had pilots, just no ships. Free, now that I think of it.
Bill O’Reilly: All right; did anyone ever make a request specifically to TTI for that, outside of the progressive tax that was suggested?
Preacher: I don’t think it was said specifically in council "can you give us free ships" it was more of "can you do ANYTHING else'.
*****CONT*****

Bill O'Reilly
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2003.09.07 05:31:00 - [2]
 

Bill O’Reilly: Did anyone ever consider alternative tactics; IE using large groups of cruisers and EW ships, etc?
Preacher: Well we did that but never were able to engage the enemy. They wouldn’t fight us if we had a lot of ships. The war got down to small skirmishes really. That’s why 90% of the fighters headed towards fountain. The day I got the news of "we’re at war with TTI" I was 10 jumps from fountain.
Bill O’Reilly: The point I'm making is that there had to be other solutions besides demanding free battleships from TTI. I understand your point of running out of ships, but there is the flip side of the coin that says a company has to make a profit and stay in business. Alright...now the thing's turned into a major civil war, and the NVA spokespeople are going so far as to say they're going to completely eradicate TTI from the game. What's your stance on that?
Preacher: We’ve talked a lot about fully eradicating TTI. Its been made clear that once the current objective is complete, that will be up to the decision of the specific corporation but I doubt that will fly or pass council. We just want TTI out of Venal. We equals a lot of us. Of course some would to seem them wiped off the eve map.
Bill O’Reilly: Do you believe that Jade Constantine is pushing a personal agenda, using the NVA to get what she wants?
Preacher: No bull****, I can’t tell at this point. If she goes so far to say "eradicate TTI from eve" after they leave venal then yes she has issues.
Bill O’Reilly: As someone on the inside, do you feel she engineered or promoted getting rid of TTI, before the vote?
Preacher: Absolutely not. She simply said what many of us were afraid to.

Bill O’Reilly: Final question for you; if this turns into a long war of attrition, will the NVA rethink the issue?
Preacher: I’m tired of the war, a lot of people are tired of, a lot of us are friends from both sides, we don’t even want to fight each other, there’s been a lot of times TTI sit in space next to us, chatting about how much this sucks. I don’t want to fight gunny, tigge, driven, and Nya. I’ve ordered OCC military to not fire on them until I say so. Its up to Ragnar now to send in his fleet. Then we fight. Until then, **BLEEP** it.
Bill O’Reilly: Is Jade taking a leading role?
Preacher: In PR terms yes, I’d hope I still get to keep directing the council though. But her presence attracts people to her. A lot of people look at her as the leader type. And as the leader I suppose. She’s hard to ignore. But in the end there will be no one leader. After this is all done and NA claims Venal, it will be purely the council. We’ve decided on that.
Bill O’Reilly: Well, if Jade is watching this show, I'd like to again ask her to enter the No Spin Zone. So far she hasn't responded to our requests, but hey. It’s a free universe. Alright Preacher, your a stand up guy for entering the Zone and taking some tough questions. I hope we'll see you back at some point in the future, even if we disagree on some issues.
Preacher: Thank you for having me.
Bill O’Reilly: You're welcome.


And that's all the time we have tonight folks - keep the mail pithy and I'll see you tomorrow.

And remember...The Spin - Stops here.

Bill O'Reilly
EVE-Foxnews



Luther Pendragon
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.09.07 07:28:00 - [3]
 

So thats what it was all about? I had barely a clue beore. Free ships? Thats really bizarre, who can give free ships around like that in this game? Plus with very little controll built in. All the minerals would go insanely out of sync, there can never be a garantee of supply and even TTI people cash buy from outside the corp!

And TTI cannot supply warriors because they are mostly carebear miners and traders. I think BYOM as a way to contribute sounded perfectly reasonable.

Nobodies fighting anymore...Point me to the war already! Very Happy

Dukath
Gallente
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.09.07 09:13:00 - [4]
 

The problem with BYOM is the fact that the peope that needed the ships could not mine at all because they were gettng shot at. Besides the fact that its hard to mine in frigates :/

And also the fact that TTI only has carebrea miners as you so eloquently state it is no excuse for not participating in the war. TTI could have provided ships in return for protection in venal. I mean that is what this whole thing was about isn't it? the VA protected Venal so people could mine and kill NPC. The miners could have contributed in the defense, not by fighting but by helping those that do fight and give them minerals/ships/cash.

For every minute the fighters were busy defending venal they gave the miners time to mine in peace (relative peace at least :) )
For every minute the miners mined they gave the fighters NOTHING. Hmm do i see something wrong here?

Luther Pendragon
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.09.07 09:42:00 - [5]
 

But TTI miners were also getting shot at, there was no secure supply of ore. The only way ship replacement could work is if people provided the ore themselves. That said, it might not have been a bad idea to pay for the ore.

The Surgeon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.09.07 09:43:00 - [6]
 

Quote:
who can give free ships around like that in this game?


Read the BSC's press release for one corporation willing to give free ships to the war effort. It's more a question of how much a corporation wishes to help. TTi could have easily resupplied the VA fleet if they wanted to...the have far greater resources available to them the we do.

Luther Pendragon
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.09.07 09:50:00 - [7]
 

How do you know that? TTI has no resources, its all owned by individuals.

I havn't read any press release, where? Link?

Doctor Angry
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2003.09.07 10:25:00 - [8]
 

British Space Corps Press Release

Also, with regard to TTi's resources, check this thread and specifically the items quoted by Ragnar in the post by Reapz, where Ragnar states how much money TTi have "under management".

Riddari
Gallente
VIT
Posted - 2003.09.07 11:49:00 - [9]
 

Hahaha

No Spin Zone... to the point questions... if this is what Bill O'Reilly is like I wouldn't touch him with a poke stick.

Talk about leading questions Rolling Eyes

Renox
Gallente
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2003.09.07 12:31:00 - [10]
 

/me tips hat to Bill and Preach


nice interview

Luther Pendragon
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.09.07 12:32:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Luther Pendragon on 07/09/2003 12:41:16
'Under management', I suspect is a term used that includes the personal resources owned by the top execs of TTI and not corporately owned. Just sounds like a wee silly too much. TTIs a rich corp, but theres a lot of managers. In fact, TTI isnt much more than, say the VA, big, few top players, many small insignificant ones. Its merely an alliance of independent players. So yea..the moneys being managed, but not from the corporate wallet.

For BSC free ship deal, well, thats well and good, although I havnt seen too much of anyone taking loses at all or much of any fleet anywhere.

The kind of support that should be given during war? I dont know, but I think personally that some things ought to have been considered. Its funny everyone complaining that TTI should give them free ships. TTI doesnt give anything to their own employees. If anyone should be complaining, its them. But they dont. Least not much Razz

Handing out free ships seem a bit rich, I think people have far too much expectations of what TTI should subsidize with. 50% cheaper? Maybe, but it needs to be negotiated anyways, and not demanded or threatened.

Luther Pendragon
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.09.07 12:43:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Luther Pendragon on 07/09/2003 12:43:57
Quote:

Talk about leading questions Rolling Eyes


Thats true...seriously could try harder to at least seem impartial Rolling Eyes Although admitedly, I guess thats your 'angle' among the news medias.

Taliranowe Sarum
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2003.09.07 12:52:00 - [13]
 

Seems to me he asked the questions we all wanted to know :)


Darion MacVale
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2003.09.07 12:59:00 - [14]
 

hmm....

Needs formatting.

vf142rex
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.09.07 13:47:00 - [15]
 

"Read the BSC's press release for one corporation willing to give free ships to the war effort. It's more a question of how much a corporation wishes to help. TTi could have easily resupplied the VA fleet if they wanted to...the have far greater resources available to them the we do."

TTI's assets are privately owned. There was NO policy in the old VA that said that TTI would have to pay money/ship to help fight wars. Should there have been? Probably,,,If the old va expected to be showered in gifts from individual members out of the goodness of their/our hearts, that was stupid planning on whoever formed VA. Even if individuals were going to give up money or ships, was there a plan in place that dictated WHO got the ships back? Then there would have been complaining about TTI members playing favorites. It seems to me that the old VA suffered from very poor planning.

I find it offensive to hear that TTI members didn't participate at all. I spent many hours on the first night, then the first day of the war. I participated in killing at least 2-3 battleships. The only reason why I didn't continue was that I left for college, and orientation week is very time consuming.

Morkt Drakt
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2003.09.07 14:13:00 - [16]
 

Shouldnt you put these posts into IS forum now Yoseph? Its getting a bit too "spammy" in this one and its not the personal PR forum for TTi.

ALL the above totally OoC and serious btw, one was amusing, but if you want to keep up the RP propaganda put it in the rp forum.

Tehel Necrona
Minmatar
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2003.09.07 14:29:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Tehel Necrona on 07/09/2003 14:44:35
Just like all your propoganda is in there? Erm.. Yea Rolling Eyes. I agree though all this IC discussion needs to placed i nthe same area, be it the IG or this forum. It's messing up most forums :/

Btw sorry, quite rude of me not to comment on the interview, which was highly entertaining once again :). Preacher performed admirably on the spot, its hard to not promote your side when being questioned on it, especially regarding a lot of the pride surrounding this conflict. Well done.

-Necro

Morkt Drakt
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2003.09.07 14:46:00 - [18]
 

yup I agree Tehel.

Personally i like this Reilly stuff, Ive no idea who he is in RL, but the theme of having blatant spin in a no-spin zone is good enough.

Just needs to be stuck, as you say, with all the other propaganda... i think "IS" is best, lots of the other hundreds of corps in this game use this forum for their own announcements that are getting eaten up by this on-going saga.

"IS" is less used for such and probably suits this and the other stuff more.

/me shrugs

Just a thought.

Taliranowe Sarum
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2003.09.07 14:54:00 - [19]
 

Except alot of us dont use the summit. Atleast not for corp issues.

Morkt Drakt
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2003.09.07 15:02:00 - [20]
 

Quote:
Except alot of us dont use the summit. Atleast not for corp issues.


yes - thats the point.

It leaves this one less cluttered and put this RP stuff in the RP forum.

Doctor Angry
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2003.09.07 16:50:00 - [21]
 

Quote:
There was NO policy in the old VA that said that TTI would have to pay money/ship to help fight wars. Should there have been? Probably


Fair enough there, but I never said that there was any stipulation in the contract/agreement/alliance with the VA. All I said was that TTi could have supplied replacements etc to the VA. As you say, there probably should have been something along those lines in the charter of the VA, but if there was, would TTi have joined? If they hadn't would we even be involved in a TTi vs VA war at all? Smile

vf142rex
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.09.07 17:26:00 - [22]
 

Consider this,,,

TTI has been operating in venal since very early in eve. When I first joined TTI in late june, I really didn't see any other corps out there. Maybe a member or two, or an occasional mining team,,,but TTI was the only real occupant. THEN, venal alliance forms and claims venal as territory. TTI gets an NAP from that, because we/they just wanted to continue operating as normal.

Then, Evolution rolled in and bloackaded the main system or two in venal claiming that they didn't recognize the VA's territorial claim. VA was loosely knit at that time. I went on vacation shortly after that happened, but either they left or were pushed out. When I came back from vacation, VA had tightened up. NAP's were no longer allowed in the main systems (y-4cfk and 6nj8-v). TTI was then forced to participate in the venal alliance, or leave the territory that we have been operating and profiting from for months.

Those are the circumstances that TTI joined VA under. If there was a charter formed, I think TTI would still have stayed in the venal alliance, simply because we had no other choice.

Yoseph Cohen
Gallente
Israeli Space Corporation
Posted - 2003.09.07 18:09:00 - [23]
 

If you think the O'Reilly posts are "spammy", I suggest you 1) Look at Jade Constantine's posts sometime. 2) Look up "Spam" in Websters.

At least O'Reilly actually SAYS something in his show, rather than just talking for 2 screens and leaving your head swimming with disused english...like Jade Constantine.

Yoseph Cohen
Aluf
Israeli Defense Forces

Luther Pendragon
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.09.07 18:17:00 - [24]
 

The VA was merely a non agression pact, 'alliance' part of it was whatever the members felt like doing collectively. Many felt that Venal geographic integrity was important, so they implemented that policy, out of their own interests and not because they get free ships. I really dont see why any corporation should be bribing any other corps friendship with unrestricted giveaways. There doesnt seem to have had been much discussion going on at all at the kind of support that could be offered, just a 'give us free ships or else' attitude, which is entirely wrong and not how friends are treated.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2003.09.07 19:08:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 07/09/2003 19:10:30

Yoseph m'dear, you certainly are a piece of work,

Quote:
At least O'Reilly actually SAYS something in his show, rather than just talking for 2 screens and leaving your head swimming with disused english...like Jade Constantine.


Let me just get this straight in my head. You are using one identity "Yoseph" to fulsomely praise the achievements of another identity, "O'Reilly", and yet you have the bare-faced cheek to accuse me of spammy-spin?

Good lord m'dear, you just broke my vocabulary of commentary, because I can't think of a word far enough beyond hypocrite to accurately condemn you with!

Amazing! As somebody else noted with unintentional humour, you really should start doing Taggart Transpiratical PR work. They deserve men of your calibre.

Love and peace

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2003.09.07 19:14:00 - [26]
 

Oh and luther, you are an idiot. Try reading the background material and unedited chat logs before making a fool of yourself in the pro-celebrity open sycophant of the year competition.

Love and peace

Cookie
Minmatar
Snakeoil Industries Ltd.
Posted - 2003.09.07 19:36:00 - [27]
 

well, Mr. Cohen, i don't know why this thread isn't labelled as 'How to make an idiot of yourself in 2 easy steps'.

And, i can't help myself, but didn't i hear someone called Ragnar bragging about having 5 accounts somewhere ?.

Oh, and before i forget, weren't there also rumours about a 20 mill. isk fee for tti members for posting stuff that doesn't hit someone's opinion ?

So .. someone do the math please, got no calculator here :/

Luther Pendragon
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.09.07 19:48:00 - [28]
 

Quote:
Oh and luther, you are an idiot. Try reading the background material and unedited chat logs before making a fool of yourself in the pro-celebrity open sycophant of the year competition.

Love and peace



I prefer to be called Pendragon actually.
While I am not idiot, I admit I have never shown any interest in game politics and have only voiced myself on what I have read and engaged in here. I have no intention of submerging myself in pages of crap swapping politics, I'm really not that interested.

Yoseph Cohen
Gallente
Israeli Space Corporation
Posted - 2003.09.07 20:00:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Yoseph Cohen on 07/09/2003 20:02:19
Quote:
Oh and luther, you are an idiot. Try reading the background material and unedited chat logs before making a fool of yourself in the pro-celebrity open sycophant of the year competition.

Love and peace



You need to find a new line, Jade. Calling everyone that disagrees with you an idiot because you have no arguements outside of lots of disused english gets old after awhile. I suppose Preacher is an idiot too; since he didn't march lock step with you.

And FYI, you KNOW I'm O'Reilly, so quit the crap. At least The Preacher had the balls to take some tough questions, and he hits me a decent person - that's more than can be said for you.

Yoseph Cohen
(AKA Bill O'Reilly)
Aluf
Israeli Defense Forces

Bill O'Reilly
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2003.09.07 20:05:00 - [30]
 

Oh yeah, one more thing. You're responding to many people Jade and posting, so I know your not away from the game or what have you. Why don't you take some tough questions and enter the No Spin Zone? You constantly demand that Ragnar take hostile questions from you, are you too good to take them yourself?

Bill O'Reilly
EVE-Foxnews


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