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CCP TomB

Posted - 2006.03.07 09:42:00 - [1]
 

This is just an official post on current EW game mechanics. I want to do a little research on the current mechanics and see how it can be improved and how we can get a better balance. Here below are a few ideas that I've gathered, these are just ideas at the moment so the only thing I'm looking for is constructive feedback and more ideas from you, our be♥ed players.

ECCM
At the moment there is little difference between "Sensor Backup Array" (low slot - passive) and "ECCM" (med slot - activation). The idea would be making the ECCM a passive module just like the "Sensor Backup Array" but adding a new activation funcionality to it.

The module would overwrite any type of modification to the sensors of your ship for a short duration, giving it pretty neat target range and scan resolution but only allowing you to attain a single target. The module would then have a long reactivation delay but the passive boost to your sensor strength would continue being active. This would allow this module to counter both RSD and ECM for a short duration.

ECCM Activation:
Max Locked Targets: 1
Max Target Range: 100km
Scan Resolution: 500
Duration: 15seconds
Reactivation Delay: 30minutes

EW Reactivation Delay
Idea posted by a player (Sarmaul, then stolen by Shibby DoWa) to add a cooldown to EW based modules, quite intressting idea that is worth looking at. It gives ships with multiple ECM systems an advantage over ships with only 1-2 ECM's (frigates).

ECM Target Jammer Duration: 30seconds
Reactivation Delay: 10secs

EW Upgrades
If EW was to be nerfed with the above mentioned reactivation delay or any other type, CCP should be obligated to get their research lab to create low slot upgrades that enhance the ECM and RSD modules.

CCP TomB

Posted - 2006.03.07 09:44:00 - [2]
 

PS: don't look at the stats and say it sucks or is overpowered, it's just to put some colour to these ideas

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2006.03.07 09:47:00 - [3]
 

TomB, are there any plans to allow some functionality of incorrect backups / ECCM on ships?

For example, it would sometimes be nice to load some gravimetric sensors onto a radar based ship.

jamesw
Omniscient Order
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2006.03.07 09:51:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: TomB
PS: don't look at the stats and say it sucks or is overpowered, it's just to put some colour to these ideas


OMG the stats suck AND they are OVERPOWERED!!!111one NERF JOO


but seriously.. I like them. The reactivation is a fantastic plan imo.

Gray Carmicheal
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2006.03.07 09:51:00 - [5]
 

TomB,

No offense to the idea poster, or you guys working your butts off for us, but will this new power give me glittery WoW effects?

I mean, I can't really say I have a better way to fix EW in general, although, from what I understand the old way made people happier, and it was what made sense to me since Ship Attributes still show a Sensor Strength, even if it doesn't technically apply anymore (since you always have a chance to jam, for example).

I just had to voice my concorn over turning something so independant and unique as EVE into another Timer-based-button-mashing-game like WoW, I understand items like the DoomsDay Device NEED this effect, but they aren't in common (currently, any) usage, either.

I wish my head was a bit clearer, and that I really had played with the EW more recently (it's been a while) so I could provide more constructive input, but I just had to take this time to ask that EVE not turn into the "OMG my 1337 Special Ability is rdy! Kekekeke!" that I've seen in other games that utilize a system that's similar.


That being said, I may also be reading your post from completely in left field.

Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.03.07 10:16:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Blazde on 07/03/2006 10:17:14
A reactivation delay doesn't make me feel good either, especially anything approaching 30 minutes. It's fine for 1-shot combat, but some of the most fun fights in EVE are the ones with opposing fleets dancing around a system for 30-60 minutes even longer at a time, sniping at each, a few kills here and there. If everyone's ECCM is shot after the first engagement it'll feel a bit odd.

People dislike the new version of EW because it's chance based, and (unlike say turret damage) you can win or lose big time just on a handful of random numbers. I'd say your best bet is to address that somehow.

What I would like to see is making the remote ECCM modules a bit more useable. This applies to remote repairs/boosters too, and is one of the factors in logistics cruisers being useless. One of the main problems in my opinion is that managing targetting of allied ships is too painful, you can't know easily who needs your help, and once you lock them you risk shooting them (or boosting enemies). So my rough suggestion here is that remote-ECCM would give a bonus to all allied (ganged) ships in a certain radius without needing to lock them. That would make for instance a scorpion a powerful anti-EW ship as well as being used for EW. Then give the logistics cruisers some remote-ECCM bonuses. (Or introduce an entire new class of ships :) ).

Incidentaly, if you applied that concept to remote repairers & boosters it would be a good way of making combat last longer when it involes lots of ships. Instead of battleships popping in 5 seconds, they'd get powerful remote tanks and you'd either have to spend longer killing them or take out the boosting ships first.

Emsigma
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2006.03.07 10:19:00 - [7]
 

I still don't see what the problem was with the old EW system.

As long as the activation time for multis was changed to 20s it was really good.

Then you offered mids or lows to boost to MAKE SURE you wouldn't get jammed and there would be no cycle jamming either.

Also, frigates with jammers could jam other frigates and cruisers but not BS (unless very specialized griffins or stilettos), cruisers could jam frigs and cruisers and sometimes BS while BS could jam other BS.

I don't want to nag, but seriously. What was wrong with that system?

darth solo
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2006.03.07 10:19:00 - [8]
 

iv got a crazy, totally mental out of this world idea...

make ECM a module that can only be fitted on ECM ships... like gang mods on BC/command ships, like advanced cloakers on coverts., and various others.

Im sick of every fight i get into being jammed from ships, that just shouldnt be fitting ecm... we have ECM ravens, ECM doms, Megas fitting 2 ecm mods... u would have to be a mad man to fight a domonix solo now, u just know its gonna be using ecm.

ECM is the win button in eve and is far too overpowered, so im glad u are looking into it....

Id like to see it go back to what it once was, where it took 3 modules to jam 1 ship, where u knew if u fitted backups 3 modules wouldnt jam u..

MAKE IT AN EXACT SCIENCE... if u activate ecm on me for -18 sensor strengh, and i have 18 total strengh, i am jammed.. if u activate -18 on me and i have 19 i can target you.

making it chance based was a lottery, it was a case of first to jam won, if u missed a few cycles u lost... thats totally unfair and should never have been put into the game.

I could go up against a guy with 30mill skillpoints less than me, hes in the same ship, yet he has 1 ecm module fitted that just by luck manages to jam me on all cycles...

you have to admit, its pretty poor. or maybe i have the exact same setup, yet my ecm cycles do not work, all of his do, again totally unfair allowing it to chance.

Anyways, its no secret that im a big hater of the way ecm has been worked.

d solo.

JC Weyland
Caldari
Endgame.
Posted - 2006.03.07 10:28:00 - [9]
 

I liked parts of old system and I do like some in the new and I would like to see a mix of it. Below is what I would like to see something out of. Just get rid of chance based stuff.

Bring back cycle times of 4sec, bring back stacking of the jammers. Keep falloff, optimal, skills, ship bonuses and new sensor strengths and new backup array stats.

This makes the dedicated EW pilots today being able to jam more by skill than luck, and it also gives people the chance to fit enough eccm to be pretty safe against it.

Back then a scorp with 7multis did 4*7 = 28. Today with tech2 multis and maxed out skills it does 7,5*7 = 52,5. This is if you would use 7 multis. So today ECM can be about 90% stronger than before, but today eccm gives a bit more to make up for that.

Play with the numbers of jammers, cycle times, cap usage and backup arrays to make it somewhat into only ECM bonused ships can be good at EW, but other ships could do something if they fitted like bunch of racials.

Ofcourse this might not be the solution, but the chanced based EW stuff is really annoying.

Khajit Smitty
Minmatar
MisFunk Inc.
Daisho Syndicate
Posted - 2006.03.07 10:31:00 - [10]
 

a cooldown period as such would essentially destroy the EW role that certain ships provide, ontop of that it may create a scenario where EW ships activate, engage, warp to SS , wait X minutes, warp back... (just my thoughts on the idea, ofcourse would depend on the final stats)

TomB could you post a summary list of present problems that you currently see with EW so that we can identify if this solution will actually solve the problem or in the process come up with a solution that will solve the problem (confusing)

Eyeshadow
Caldari
The xDEATHx Squadron
Posted - 2006.03.07 10:31:00 - [11]
 

i like the idea of having a module to allow us to lock 1 target regardless of being jammed/damped. I think it should last longer than 15 seconds though, maybe 30?

As for ECM cool down, awesome idea, i love it Smile

Kay Han
Caldari
Divine Retribution
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2006.03.07 10:32:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Kay Han on 07/03/2006 10:33:40
The only change i would make is EW on EW ships only.

Make 1 EW Ship per race and Clas.

i.e.

Caldari ew ships:

- griffin
- BB
- Scorp
- or simply intorduce new ships :)
also introduce EW-ships to the other races


The current system is just fine. ok... except the long duration for Multies.

edit:
i also agree with Eyeshadow

Porro
The Scope
Posted - 2006.03.07 10:40:00 - [13]
 

I love both ideas, just the times need some tweeking, 30 secs jammed is a bit much? :P

And 30 mins for the first module is also quite a while too, but as you said it'll get tweeked, so great ideas and nice to see a community inspired change there too :)

Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
Posted - 2006.03.07 10:45:00 - [14]
 

One half-way point on cooldown would be to make it so that it cycles indefinitely on one target, but when it's deactivated it takes 10s or whatever before you can reactivate it again. This probably conflicts with the auto-repeat code, but you could change it so the cooldown applies to new targets rather than to reactivations.

That said, I do kinda like the proposed model, in that it makes ECM slightly less powerful compared to other EW types. The RSD means you can shoot people but only at close range and after a delay, the TD means you can again only shoot people close up and if they're moving slowly, but the ECM means you can effectively do nothing, instantaneously and with no way around it short of fitting specifically for ECCM. Other EW significantly limits your abilities - ECM removes them entirely.


Also, on the subject of EW, is the idea of a "missile webifier" being looked at? IE, a TD equivalent for missiles, which you activate on a target ship and it reduces the speed of their missiles - reduces both range and their ability to catch fast ships, which makes it a nice TD equivalent. You could just make the TD do both, as it's currently the only EW type which is totally useless against the majority of Caldari ships, but I'm not holding my breath for that, cool as it would be...

Res Tance
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2006.03.07 10:54:00 - [15]
 

This new mod proposal looks good on paper, I'd like to test it to see what impact it'd have in combat though.

As far as the long re-activation time goes for it, I think this is fair if it's a direct counter to jamming. I'd not be best pleased if I chased someone around a system and they used this several times in a row, although once I wouldn't mind.
It gives the user a chance to escape/fight back, which I feel is fair.
If I'm good enough I should be able to lock him down and nail him a second time.

I think the new EW system gives a much more balanced approach to EW, and I like it (although I know that's not a popular view). The chance based system allows new guys to strike it lucky and lock down a much higher skilled player....I happen to like this, despite the fact I have a large number of skill points invested in EW.

The re-activation delay on jamming mods doesn't sit well wih me, but probably only because I sometimes use only 1 or 2 jammers. It's not such a bad idea though, so I can't argue against it especially if the jamming time is increased to 30 secs.

Ignatius Chapelle
Gallente
Scala Caeli
Posted - 2006.03.07 10:57:00 - [16]
 

Reactivation delay sounds like a good idea, but I dont fancy being jammed for 30 secs (!)

I'll be honest when I say that I think ECM does require some ner***e as it has got to the point that people are giving out instructions like "everyone fit at least 1 ECM mod on your ship". Since ECM is chance based, modified by skills I have to say that randomness (even skill-modified randomness) = bad.

CCP modifying npc bosses and capital ships to be unaffected by EW is a tacit admission that EW is horrendously overpowered imo.



Zenst
Hall Of Flame
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2006.03.07 11:00:00 - [17]
 

Errr hasn;t there been another stealth nerf to ECM already last patch. I've noticed jam timers of micro seconds instead of the 10/20second timers of jamming people, still have module delay/cycle so adding another delay - no thanks.

As it stands ECM is pretty tarded, You can booost backup arrays no end but beyond skills and the initial module you have no way to boost your jamming strength.

ECM dmg mods are needed and with the way your looking at ECM then I'd say you realy have to bring them in or scrap ECM altogether.


ECM is like the T2 lottery, there are alot of unlucky people out there.


Now put down ECM and go fix, blasters and the information warfare modules which are so busted up its a joke.

Auman
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.03.07 11:02:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: darth solo
iv got a crazy, totally mental out of this world idea...

make ECM a module that can only be fitted on ECM ships... like gang mods on BC/command ships, like advanced cloakers on coverts., and various others.

Im sick of every fight i get into being jammed from ships, that just shouldnt be fitting ecm... we have ECM ravens, ECM doms, Megas fitting 2 ecm mods... u would have to be a mad man to fight a domonix solo now, u just know its gonna be using ecm.

ECM is the win button in eve and is far too overpowered, so im glad u are looking into it....

Id like to see it go back to what it once was, where it took 3 modules to jam 1 ship, where u knew if u fitted backups 3 modules wouldnt jam u..

MAKE IT AN EXACT SCIENCE... if u activate ecm on me for -18 sensor strengh, and i have 18 total strengh, i am jammed.. if u activate -18 on me and i have 19 i can target you.

making it chance based was a lottery, it was a case of first to jam won, if u missed a few cycles u lost... thats totally unfair and should never have been put into the game.

I could go up against a guy with 30mill skillpoints less than me, hes in the same ship, yet he has 1 ecm module fitted that just by luck manages to jam me on all cycles...

you have to admit, its pretty poor. or maybe i have the exact same setup, yet my ecm cycles do not work, all of his do, again totally unfair allowing it to chance.

Anyways, its no secret that im a big hater of the way ecm has been worked.

d solo.


Totally agree. Perhaps keep the optimal and fall off values though.

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2006.03.07 11:06:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 07/03/2006 11:08:06
What I would like to see would be two things. First, instead of the modules simply giving a fixed ECM jam value which is compared to the corresponding sensor strength, each ship could have a jamming strength just like they have sensor strengths, and the ECM jammers boost that value by a percentage instead of just adding a flat number.
And the base ship values would depend on the ship size, type and race, favoring the races own sensor strength with only dedicated EW ships being good at jamming all types. This should fix everyone and their dog mounting multispecs to dominate small scale pvp.

The second thing I would like is going one step back in the diretion of the old way to resolve ECM, essentially a hybrid between the new way and the old way. Meaning that jamming becomes a hybrid of being chance based and a 100%/0% jam thing. Where up to a certain percentage of the targets sensor strength jamming chance is 0%, from that percentage the chance goes up to another percentage at which it becomes 100% success.

So say for example a ship with a modified sensor strength of 30 LADAR comes up against something with a LADAR jamming strength of 7. But up to 25% of the target sensor strength, jamming is not effective, meaning that jammer would have no chance to succeed. Now if the roles were reversed and a strength 30 Jammer came up against a strength 7 sensor ship, it would get a 100% jamming chance. (Numbers are just examples not checked for realism)

Basically I would like jamming to become more of a niche business for special ships important to lock down enemies in large scale engagements and not the be all end all I-win button for small scale combat it is currently. Mainly because it is more fun to fight a gank pulse Armageddon in a webbed T1 frigate than a jamming Dominix in another Battleship. In the former engagement you at least get to actually fight...

Another good idea I read here somewhere was to make the jammed ship not totally lose its lock but rather make the lock disappear frequently during the jamming cycle, and when it is disappeared the target cannot be shot at.

Or what about making Jammers high slot items? Shocked

Imho anything that weakens the combat-impairing effect of ECM jamming will be good. Because this roll-of-dice thing is simply not nearly as much fun as guns, shields & armor. Even shooting orbiting inties with 1400s is better than not shooting at all!

Helen Tranter
Posted - 2006.03.07 11:07:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Blazde
Edited by: Blazde on 07/03/2006 10:17:14




What I would like to see is making the remote ECCM modules a bit more useable. This applies to remote repairs/boosters too, and is one of the factors in logistics cruisers being useless. One of the main problems in my opinion is that managing targetting of allied ships is too painful, you can't know easily who needs your help, and once you lock them you risk shooting them (or boosting enemies). So my rough suggestion here is that remote-ECCM would give a bonus to all allied (ganged) ships in a certain radius without needing to lock them. That would make for instance a scorpion a powerful anti-EW ship as well as being used for EW. Then give the logistics cruisers some remote-ECCM bonuses. (Or introduce an entire new class of ships :) ).

Incidentaly, if you applied that concept to remote repairers & boosters it would be a good way of making combat last longer when it involes lots of ships. Instead of battleships popping in 5 seconds, they'd get powerful remote tanks and you'd either have to spend longer killing them or take out the boosting ships first.



I like this idea if its used like a ECM Burst module, with the cycle times and range governed by skills.

TomB as for the EW Reactivation Delay this sound nice if its also comes with tough skill requirements to reduce the delay.
So that EW specialized pilots can be just that, Specialized.

Regards

Helen

Emsigma
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2006.03.07 11:17:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Auman
Originally by: darth solo
iv got a crazy, totally mental out of this world idea...

make ECM a module that can only be fitted on ECM ships... like gang mods on BC/command ships, like advanced cloakers on coverts., and various others.

Im sick of every fight i get into being jammed from ships, that just shouldnt be fitting ecm... we have ECM ravens, ECM doms, Megas fitting 2 ecm mods... u would have to be a mad man to fight a domonix solo now, u just know its gonna be using ecm.

ECM is the win button in eve and is far too overpowered, so im glad u are looking into it....

Id like to see it go back to what it once was, where it took 3 modules to jam 1 ship, where u knew if u fitted backups 3 modules wouldnt jam u..

MAKE IT AN EXACT SCIENCE... if u activate ecm on me for -18 sensor strengh, and i have 18 total strengh, i am jammed.. if u activate -18 on me and i have 19 i can target you.

making it chance based was a lottery, it was a case of first to jam won, if u missed a few cycles u lost... thats totally unfair and should never have been put into the game.

I could go up against a guy with 30mill skillpoints less than me, hes in the same ship, yet he has 1 ecm module fitted that just by luck manages to jam me on all cycles...

you have to admit, its pretty poor. or maybe i have the exact same setup, yet my ecm cycles do not work, all of his do, again totally unfair allowing it to chance.

Anyways, its no secret that im a big hater of the way ecm has been worked.

d solo.


Totally agree. Perhaps keep the optimal and fall off values though.


Yep, I agree as well. The only thing I don't want is the 4 second cycle on the multis as cycle jamming was to powerful before.

Kin'Tarr
Minmatar
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2006.03.07 11:21:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: darth solo
iv got a crazy, totally mental out of this world idea...

make ECM a module that can only be fitted on ECM ships... like gang mods on BC/command ships, like advanced cloakers on coverts., and various others.

Im sick of every fight i get into being jammed from ships, that just shouldnt be fitting ecm... we have ECM ravens, ECM doms, Megas fitting 2 ecm mods... u would have to be a mad man to fight a domonix solo now, u just know its gonna be using ecm.



My thoughts exactly

Antic
Posted - 2006.03.07 11:27:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Blazde
Edited by: Blazde on 07/03/2006 10:17:14
A reactivation delay doesn't make me feel good either, especially anything approaching 30 minutes. It's fine for 1-shot combat, but some of the most fun fights in EVE are the ones with opposing fleets dancing around a system for 30-60 minutes even longer at a time, sniping at each, a few kills here and there. If everyone's ECCM is shot after the first engagement it'll feel a bit odd.

People dislike the new version of EW because it's chance based, and (unlike say turret damage) you can win or lose big time just on a handful of random numbers. I'd say your best bet is to address that somehow.

What I would like to see is making the remote ECCM modules a bit more useable. This applies to remote repairs/boosters too, and is one of the factors in logistics cruisers being useless. One of the main problems in my opinion is that managing targetting of allied ships is too painful, you can't know easily who needs your help, and once you lock them you risk shooting them (or boosting enemies). So my rough suggestion here is that remote-ECCM would give a bonus to all allied (ganged) ships in a certain radius without needing to lock them. That would make for instance a scorpion a powerful anti-EW ship as well as being used for EW. Then give the logistics cruisers some remote-ECCM bonuses. (Or introduce an entire new class of ships :) ).

Incidentaly, if you applied that concept to remote repairers & boosters it would be a good way of making combat last longer when it involes lots of ships. Instead of battleships popping in 5 seconds, they'd get powerful remote tanks and you'd either have to spend longer killing them or take out the boosting ships first.


I find this idea most interesting. Making anti EW modules on certain support ships aura effects for friendly ships within X range without needing locks and doing the same for remote repairers shield transfers would indeed be an interesting experiment.

Also maybe the effect of EW should be discussed. Does it have to be all or nothing?

Wheya
Amarr
Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen
Posted - 2006.03.07 11:31:00 - [24]
 

One thing I really would like to see is that target jammers only affect the high slots of the opponent.

If two ECM ships fight against each other it's most of the time only a question of who has the faster locking time. The other one is screwed regardless how good his ECM skills are and regardless how many slots he dedicates for ECM. Generally there is too much focus on fast locking time in PVP. Everything must be fast or it becomes worthless.

In longer 1:1 fights only one successfull target jamm means the the ECM user can run if he wants to. That's some kind of overpowered WCS. I can accept that my turrets are disabled for a while but please let my warpscrambler continue with scrambling.


When thinking about combat game mechanics and its balance please keep 1:1 combat in mind. I need sensor booster, tons of scramblers, ECCM and webifier only to catch and hold one single opponent. That's a lot of must have med slot modules for an attacker. The only solution is ganking (with superior numbers) and that's one of the most annoying things in EVE from my point of view. Ganking exists not only because of griefers but because there is almost no other way to get a fight.

Kamikaaazi
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.03.07 11:33:00 - [25]
 

yea right.
I warp in my scorp try to jamm some targets AND if i somehow manage to warp out before enemy fleet notices me and calls me primary, i can now log safely for 30min cos my ship has no usage for the fleet besides jamming (maybe taking fire away from other ships by being primary).
If you really want to fix jamming you should increase cpu usage of jammers and allso increase cpu on ships that are supposed to use those.

Kaylon Syi
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.03.07 11:33:00 - [26]
 

I tend to agree with d.solo. The biggest problem of the old system was that only several ships were effective at eWar ( bb, scorp, dominix, and tempest ) and that was in a time where the dominix and tempest were better suited for other roles over ECM.

There simply wasn't the ideology of EVE combat that we have today. We begged for roles to ships and you have graciously obliged us in nearly ever way but a few things were tweaked before they needed such as eWar.

I would rather you bring back the old system with new additions such as the extra skills. Bringing back the flat point system of old imo is the best tweak you could do.

I really can't comment on your ideas listed because imo the current system is so horrible I'd try anything. I rather you not waste coding time, so you can fix blasters and artillery, and just re-use the ewar we all knew and loved.

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2006.03.07 11:34:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/03/2006 11:36:19
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/03/2006 11:35:26
Originally by: darth solo
iv got a crazy, totally mental out of this world idea...

make ECM a module that can only be fitted on ECM ships... like gang mods on BC/command ships, like advanced cloakers on coverts., and various others.

Im sick of every fight i get into being jammed from ships, that just shouldnt be fitting ecm... we have ECM ravens, ECM doms, Megas fitting 2 ecm mods... u would have to be a mad man to fight a domonix solo now, u just know its gonna be using ecm.

ECM is the win button in eve and is far too overpowered, so im glad u are looking into it....

Id like to see it go back to what it once was, where it took 3 modules to jam 1 ship, where u knew if u fitted backups 3 modules wouldnt jam u..

MAKE IT AN EXACT SCIENCE... if u activate ecm on me for -18 sensor strengh, and i have 18 total strengh, i am jammed.. if u activate -18 on me and i have 19 i can target you.

making it chance based was a lottery, it was a case of first to jam won, if u missed a few cycles u lost... thats totally unfair and should never have been put into the game.

I could go up against a guy with 30mill skillpoints less than me, hes in the same ship, yet he has 1 ecm module fitted that just by luck manages to jam me on all cycles...

you have to admit, its pretty poor. or maybe i have the exact same setup, yet my ecm cycles do not work, all of his do, again totally unfair allowing it to chance.

Anyways, its no secret that im a big hater of the way ecm has been worked.

d solo.


If ecm could only be fitted on special ecm ships, i think few people would dare to fly expensive battleships that can be shut down easily. Its better to change how ecm works.

I dont like the idea of chance-based ecm either. I think it was better before with jamming strength 19 always being able to jam a ship with strength 18.

I also think ecm should work more in a manner of disrupting service than preventing it, much in the same manner as denial-of-service attacks. Instead of totally shutting down the ship, it should prolong the activation time on modules. So shield boosters boost slower, weapons fire slower etc (depending on what type of ecm module you have selected to fit) because the ship CPU is overloaded by the jamming. This would remove ecm as the ultimate win button and make it a possible addition to a ship setup if you prefer to drop some offensive power in order to make the other ship hurt you less.


Forsch
Auctoritan Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.03.07 11:40:00 - [28]
 

ECM (jamming) is just too strong. People are using ECM on ships that have a bonus to other EW (Arbi/Celestis/Bellicose). It's really boring if the fight is decided by who has most jammers and who locks fastest. ECCM helps a little but because of the percent increase is only really making a difference on battleships.

Originally by: TomB
ECM
At the moment there is little difference between "Sensor Backup Array" (low slot - passive) and "ECM" (med slot - activation).

You do mean ECCM here, right?

Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.03.07 11:41:00 - [29]
 

Here's a suggestion. Might be a bit radical for what you're looking but the basic idea is that jammers should impair your ship's (offensive) abilities a bit, rather than removing them completely or not at all, much like dampers and tracking disruptors do. It's pretty simple too.

While jammed each remote module you activate has a % chance of 'missing' (ie. it can't find it's locked target). So if you're 50% jammed your guns are going to be doing half-volleys, your scramblers are going to fail 50% of the time, your own jammers are going to still hit some of the time (meaning that an EW vs EW fight isn't just about who gets first lock). But otherwised you keep your locks.

With enough jammers on you you could still be 100% jammed (no stacking penalty or resistance style % gains), so for example.... a multispectral might jam for 2 sensor strength, against a 20 sensor strength ship it would cause 10% of your module activations to fail, with 10 multis on you you'd be at 100% failure. ECCM would return to the old style of giving a constant increase, say 5. So the same ship with 10 jammers trained on it and 1 backup array would now have 25 sensor strenght and be suceeding on it's activations 20% of the time. Fit 4 backups and you're going to be doing pretty good (50% jammed).

So it's like the old style except it should be quite a bit harder to fully jam a ship and in return it's not quite such a brutal shock when you find out they have a little more sensor strength than you expected. The chance of the new system is still there, but smoothed over a lot so it's not going to turn whole battles on the result of a single jam cycle.

Gwennec
Filthy Scum
Posted - 2006.03.07 11:43:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Gwennec on 07/03/2006 11:57:38
Quote:
I also think ecm should work more in a manner of disrupting service than preventing it, much in the same manner as denial-of-service attacks. Instead of totally shutting down the ship, it should prolong the activation time on modules. So shield boosters boost slower, weapons fire slower etc (depending on what type of ecm module you have selected to fit) because the ship CPU is overloaded by the jamming. This would remove ecm as the ultimate win button and make it a possible addition to a ship setup if you prefer to drop some offensive power in order to make the other ship hurt you less.

Agreed on that one.


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