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blankseplocked Jump clones make the bounty system a cruel joke.
 
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Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2006.03.06 04:40:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Rells on 06/03/2006 13:02:29
Prologue: I have no opinion one way or the other about piracy and bounties so dont go off on a carebear vs pvper rant. This thread is about GAME MECHANICS, not ego or emotions.

I just wonder about all of the newer players out there putting bounties on piates that kill them, not realizing that these pirates are collecting their hard earned cash. Heck, as a pirate its PROFFITABLE to get a high bounty on yourself. All you have to do is jump into an implant-free clone and get podded by a buddy or even an alt and you collect 10 or 15 million isk? Not a bad fee for dieing.

1) The bounty system should be disabled and deactivated til it can be seriously revisited.

2) The bounty system should be seriously revisited in Kali at the maximum. This will make the bounty hunter corps valid and so on.


EDIT:

I have ideas to repair the system and it is simple. No matter how much the bounty is on the char, the killer is only paid 80% of the estimated amount of isk destroyed; and they are paid this for a ship kill as well as pod kill. So if I kill a guy in a raven, the system counts up how much isk I blew up (insurance payout is subtracted from this) and awards me 80% of that value.

This would require that the game keep a running average price for items throughout the galaxy. However this would be good for other reasons as well. In addition it would require that the algorithm need a certian number of a particular module on the market to include it in the price that way the system cant be tinkered with by placing a module on the market for a trillion isk. Essentially items that are statistical anomalies would be not included in the average calculation. This calculation can be done once per day on a system that isnt loaded down and in the background.

Qayos
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.03.06 04:45:00 - [2]
 

/signed

Bounties were bad before jump clones. Now they're downright silly.

Natorei Ryu
Posted - 2006.03.06 05:12:00 - [3]
 

Agreed. It's worse for the people who think they're securing revenge on the pirate that wronged them. Perhaps if they fixed this bounty hunting PvP could actually become a viable profession.

However, just saying that you want it fixed isn't going to get it anywhere. Anybody have any ideas of how to fix the bounty problem? Because I don't...

Acheron Cyc
Caldari
Posted - 2006.03.06 05:18:00 - [4]
 

Tranfer the bounty and sec status to the clone, and viceversa.

Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
Gilead's Bullet
Posted - 2006.03.06 05:54:00 - [5]
 

The bounty system has ALWAYS been a joke.

I suggest you just don't put any of your money into bounties.

JamesTalon
Caldari
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2006.03.06 05:57:00 - [6]
 

Don't forget though, they still have to buy a new clone Surprised

MissileRus
Posted - 2006.03.06 06:15:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: MissileRus on 06/03/2006 06:24:48
so if someone with bounty uses clone jump the bounty stays with the old clone and the new one doesnt get the bounty? if thats the case that should be fixed. otherwice i dont see any wrong wiht clone jumps.

edit: nvm my other input..

they should make things harder for ppl with bounty on them, no docking ftw! stations shouldnt allow ppl with bounty to dock, so they would have to get themselves killed eventualy, and with no docking they cant collect the huge bountys and would probably be killed by someone else before they can collect it. making the system work as intended.

that would make it harder for pirates to collect huge bountys and killing themselves to collect it for themselves. that would also make it harder to be a pirate, as IMHO being a pirate shouldnt be as easy as it is right now. it would reduce the self collecting thing and make it harder and more risky Wink even more fun! i would consider making a pirate just to see how long i would survive with a bounty, right now having a high bounty and surviving is way to easy, no docking with bounty would fix it YARRRR!!

bounty would realy work with no docking

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2006.03.06 06:22:00 - [8]
 

My personal solution

Transferable Kill right

bounty hunting might be more valid if the bounty could be collected anywhere, at any time, even when you got implants

MissileRus
Posted - 2006.03.06 06:30:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: MissileRus on 06/03/2006 06:33:16
what sec status was needed before someone could put a bounty on you? im saying -2 as an example.

ex. -2 with no bounty can dock, a -2 sec status with bounty wouldnt be allowed to dock. anyone with higher sec status then -2 would be allowed to dock even if they had bounty on them.

that would make some more challange for pirates instead of camping, and it would make it more fun trying to survive with a bounty as said in my above post.

so your ok aslong as you dont collect bounty, if you get a bounty and have low sec things get more interesting Wink

Luther Kincaid
Caldari
Shades Corp
The OSS
Posted - 2006.03.06 06:53:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: MissileRus
Edited by: MissileRus on 06/03/2006 06:33:16
what sec status was needed before someone could put a bounty on you? im saying -2 as an example.

ex. -2 with no bounty can dock, a -2 sec status with bounty wouldnt be allowed to dock. anyone with higher sec status then -2 would be allowed to dock even if they had bounty on them.

that would make some more challange for pirates instead of camping, and it would make it more fun trying to survive with a bounty as said in my above post.

so your ok aslong as you dont collect bounty, if you get a bounty and have low sec things get more interesting Wink


what a way to greif someone.. hey I don't like you, so I'm gonna put a bounty on your head for no reason.. hahaha you can't dock now

No, I'm against this idea. Right now, I can't think of a good way around this problem

Adjodlo
Posted - 2006.03.06 06:54:00 - [11]
 

/signed

CCP please fix this!!!!! It is a rediculous embarassment to your awesome game designing skills. I really don't understand why this has been allowed to continue for so long. Please figure out a way to make this system work, its a great idea and im sure you can come up with something.

SengH
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.03.06 06:58:00 - [12]
 

lol are you guys insane? Cargo scan an indy and see if he has any good stuff. Use a covt ops and follow him till he wants to dock. Right when the hauler warps to the stn, on insta or not, add bty and suicide kessy/carceral him while hes stuck docking or undocking.

Your need for vengeance blinds you to the limitless possible exploits that could be done. Its like the can flagging, the carebears whined, they got it, then realized that it wasnt working in their favor and whined more.

Brutal Butcher
Posted - 2006.03.06 07:01:00 - [13]
 

there are much pirates that take pride in having a high bounty :)

Ulendar
M34t p0p s1ckle Manufacturing
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2006.03.06 07:09:00 - [14]
 

Make it so that the hunter has to CLAIM it like a mission to kill the target and receive the bounty. Kinda like claiming an escrow. Add to it that the hunter can not be part of the pirate's corporation/alliance. I know, still exploitable but maybe a step in the right direction.

But as long as people don't realize that the insane bounties they put on some ebil gankz0rz easily cover up the loss of a clone, this system will always be abused.

SengH
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.03.06 07:11:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ulendar
Make it so that the hunter has to CLAIM it like a mission to kill the target and receive the bounty. Kinda like claiming an escrow. Add to it that the hunter can not be part of the pirate's corporation/alliance. I know, still exploitable but maybe a step in the right direction.

But as long as people don't realize that the insane bounties they put on some ebil gankz0rz easily cover up the loss of a clone, this system will always be abused.


The'll prolly overhaul the whole system with the contracts system. Ie. Kill this person once in pod/ship and collect XX bounty. Heck you could probably even base it on shiptypes so as to prevent exploiting.

Mishima
Dark-Rising
Fallen Souls
Posted - 2006.03.06 07:20:00 - [16]
 

jump clones


so that pirates can't ransom pods and so implants become something for everyone, no riskVSreward factor


EXEPT FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT CAREBEARS AND DO NOT HAVE 8.0 STANDING TO SOME FACTION OR CORP

yes mission *****s are carebears

Brutor Shaun
Posted - 2006.03.06 07:26:00 - [17]
 

Bounties should only be placable on someone who you have kill rights on.

Make if so bounties are collectable in any sec. You have a bounty, you are a murdering criminal, everyone has killrights on you, everywhere.




Lienzo
Minmatar
Amanuensis
Posted - 2006.03.06 07:41:00 - [18]
 

1)All static, universalistic systems are exploitable.

2)We need a killmail system that reports to all persons who have placed a bounty on that individual. (Not shipkill records, althout that would be nice too.)

Then people could just reward others directly. The 5000 isk you put down would only be a placeholder.

Kryss Darkdust
Posted - 2006.03.06 07:45:00 - [19]
 

I have to disagree with everyone here. A true bounty system should be designed so that only the person that set the bounty can dictate who can collect it.

It should be setup like a mission in the mission computer.

XXXX Bounty for XXXX person. Whoever takes the mission is responsible for the bounty and has X time to get it done. He only collects the money once the deed is complete. The person that offers the mission has the right to turn down the bounty hunter if he suspects foul play. In addition there should be a system in place so that players can reckognize accounts. X character belongs to X account so that its easy to know if someone has a second character.

There are too many work arounds for the pirates, griefers and exploiters as things are right now. The bounty system is one of several thats a problem and needs to be addressed. Piracy should work as intend, if your a pirate your a pirate, no BS work arounds, you kill someone you permenantly flagged a criminal and can no longer enter any secured systems, it should be that simple. Griefing and exploits should be removed completetly via a strict policy by CCP,simply start canceling account (Although clearer definition for what is griefing and exploiting should be posted somewhere everyone can see it on a daily basis).

Im no carebear and I believe things like piracy make this an exciting and fun way to enjoy the game, but there are too many game mechanics in place right now that give players work around intended game design and all those things need to be addressed. The bounty system however is the glaring example of bad design and shows that there are far too many work around the basic game mechanics for players to abuse.

Sto'ka
StrikerCorp
Posted - 2006.03.06 12:13:00 - [20]
 

Alts or corpmembers and what not can kill you or your jumpclone to collect the bounty, nice little "exploit".

So what would happen if you could only place a bounty on someone you have killrights to ?
No random grieving bounties to place as with that hauler going to dock suggestion and related not able to dock etc.
Then make it so that the bounty you place is a sort of investment, you get your invested money back once the individual is killed.
No Corpmembers, alts etc that can cash it in.
Bounties to be placed are limited to killrights and amounth to a point when the individual has accumulated a certain size of bounty he/she can not enter certain security level systems.
i.e. 100k isk max per killright, access denied to 1.0 at 1.5mil bounty. 0.9 at 2 mill bounty etc.
Bountyhunter corporations or individuals can be transferred the rights for the portion of bounty you invested in that particular person.
I.e. Transferred bounty on person X to be collectable by person Y representing S amounth of cash.
Contacting multiple persons that have an outstanding bounty/investement on that X person could increase person Y's income from that endevour.
Add, apart from the usuall character tabs when you do info, another tab listing the people and their current invested bounty on that person to the character info when a bounty is on him/her.
They can then pursuit their carreer they chose to set out to do and leviate the bountyhunting from those that are not capable of tackling some seasoned combat pilots themselves. High bounty will somewhat narrow the search area.
Want to show of your enormous bounty then there should be some sort of penalty.

It is not an idea to get rid of "nasty" people from secure space, more a suggestion to solve this problem and make bounties a more viable feature in the game.

Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
Posted - 2006.03.06 12:18:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
The bounty system has ALWAYS been a joke.

I suggest you just don't put any of your money into bounties.

QFFT Very Happy

Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
Posted - 2006.03.06 12:23:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Natorei Ryu
Anybody have any ideas of how to fix the bounty problem? Because I don't...

Depends on how the new contracts system due with Kali shapes up.

But it would be nice if it were possible to upgrade the way killmails work so that they can be copied to other players as authentic.

Then you might be able to establish a contract killing that specifies, for example, the precise type of ship and/or minimum losses the target must take before the contract would be fulfilled. Cool

Tobiaz
Spacerats
Posted - 2006.03.06 12:24:00 - [23]
 

A mission-like bounty system simply won't work. It's just too hard to find and kill specific players in this game.

I don't see an easy solution to this problem, though the current situation with clone jumps make it actually very exploitable.

Perhaps there is an possibility to tie it up with another idea to kill the farming for sec problem.

CCP should stop giving security increases for killing NPC pirates, but instead give security raises for killing player pirates.

To prevent pirates to blow up low sec alts of theirs, just make it so that the game calculates the amount of increase of security is tied to the amount of ISK the pirate has lost.

A good ratio would be +1 security standing for every 100M isk of damage you've caused to -5 security pirates.

What then could be added is a job/mission/contract where players with good security standings can get additional rewards for causing damages to pirates. For instance 10 to 25M isk worth of additional loyalty points with the NPC corp/CONCORD.

This then could also be tied in somehow with additional bounties placed on their heads.

The result will be that pirates will be hunted more because they can give quite nice rewards, and they will also start killing each other more if groups want to return to empire again.

The roaming beltpirates won't notice this much I guess, but it will certainly make it more worthwile to break up the permacamps on the gates.

A possible solution to make it harder for pirates to exploit this, is to make the whole higher system with increased bonus and bounty claimed for piratehunters only accessible for players that hadn't had a penalty hit for a couple of months (a accidental shot can be ignored, but no actual kills).

As for the pirates they can take the path to 'redemption' pretty much immediately though.

Fortior
STK Scientific
Black-Out
Posted - 2006.03.06 12:51:00 - [24]
 

Bah, make it so you pay a fee every time you use a jump clone if you have a bounty. Perhaps the fee would be whatever the bounty is? Now that's a winner in my book.

Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2006.03.06 13:03:00 - [25]
 



If theres a 10mill bounty on my head then please bear in mind my clone costs a LOT more than that.

So why would I do what you suggest? Here's a newsflash. It's ALWAYS been exploitable.

However, many legitimate players wear their bounties as an "I'm hard to pod badge" and wouldnt do something so lame.

Could it be better? Yes.

Where would EVE be if we disabled all things that dont quite work perfectly?

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2006.03.06 13:03:00 - [26]
 

I have edited the original post to express my ideas how to ifx it.

Malakhan
Gallente
Phoenix Wing
Posted - 2006.03.06 13:03:00 - [27]
 

Agree on the last one. If a pirate has 100 million bounty on his head, it should cost him 100 millions to use JC. That will seriously limit the possibilities to exploit.

MrMojo
Gallente
Posted - 2006.03.06 13:13:00 - [28]
 

Alter the bounty system so it doesnt automatically put the cash on someones head - merely what you are willing to pay

ie

player noob says they are willing to pay 1mil for the head of player ebil

player carebear says they are willing to pay 2mil for the head of player ebil


Bounty now shows 3mil on player ebil

Player manco sees bounty and wants a piece of that and applies to take the bounty on (there is no limit to those that want to take the bounty on) and enters their details in a contract (very simple - char name only is really required.)

contract is eve-mailed to all those that placed the bounty with a simple check box yes/no

player noob clicks yes then if player manco kills player ebil he gets the isk from player noob

Player carebear clicks no then player manco does not receive the isk from player carebear if he kills player ebil (perhaps player carebear is in a rival corp from player manco or he thinks that there may be a bounty scam going on from player ebil)

there would be a time limit on the yes/no acceptance eve-mail which would default to yes after, say, 1 week.

player manco would see only the total of the bounty he would receive and decide whether or not to pursue the hunt.

if player manco is successful he gets paid 1mil from player noob and the balance of the bounty would remain on player ebil's head (2mil in this case)

the actual kill would be flagged only to the killer as per current system and he would awarded the bounty pro rata those who had clicked yes

this keeps the system relatively simple and lets those who placed the bounty have some sort of ownership as to who can be awarded the money and (i think) would require very little coding from server side to impliment.

Amerame
Kernel of War
Posted - 2006.03.06 13:17:00 - [29]
 

Bounty could be based on ship killing and not pod killing. When you kill the ship of someome with a bounty you'd get something like min(bounty, 1/3 platinium insurance cost of the ship). This way if you destroy the megathron of someone with 30M bounty on him, you'd get 10M isk, and his bounty would lower to 20M.

Drizit
Amarr
Posted - 2006.03.06 13:19:00 - [30]
 

Why not make it so Bounties are not payable on jump clones?

Pirate commits crime either as himself or a clone. Podding the clone won't pay a bounty but it still costs the pirate big time to renew the clone. Also the bounty still stands until the pirate himmself is podded.

That way, it doesn't pay the pirate to have himself shot by a corpmate. If the pirate has implants, they are not going to get them blown away by a corpmate just to make a few isk that won't even pay for the replacement implants.


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