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Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2006.02.28 17:39:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Sunedyal Na'Shalorian
I wanted to compare the relative societies activity and distemper levels and from what i've seen so far, the caldari are the most stable, prosperous society in EVE.



Good summation of the facts.


Sunedyal Na'Shalorian
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.02.28 19:37:00 - [62]
 

The truth can hurt.

*prepares for the whining and responses to begin. Sits back in his Ferox and continues his pirate hunt.*

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2006.02.28 22:01:00 - [63]
 

Old saying goes, the whole galaxy revolves around Caldari Prime. Who cares what goes on anywhere else. We Caldari only care on making more ISKs everyday. As long as the ISKs flow, to hell with everything else.

The ISKs must flow!

Gavin Paradise
Alien Ruffneck Force
Ignes Immortalis
Posted - 2006.02.28 23:36:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Killer Gandry
Originally by: Gavin Paradise

New world order? You're off by more than a few centuries pal. If you ask me, imperial loyalists are cowards who wrap themselves up in a warm blanket of high security and low risk.

Keep killing Sevar. The 0.0 empires need targets like you since it seems there are quite a limited number of pilots these days with the cohones to live in 0.0, build something of their own from scratch and fight like Hell to maintain it... pirate or not.

/looks at the other comms on his screen with total disgust.


I think you forgot to add the YARRRRR.




/smiles.

It has now become fully apparent to me that I'm dealing with people who do not fully understand the dynamics of 0.0. I think that you Killer Gandry, as well as people like you, are under the false impression that the frontiers are war-torn, pirate-infested wastelands with little or no redeeming social or cultural value.

What's my problem with that?

Well, as you can plainly see, I work for the ISS. We build and maintain publically-owned trade outposts with a host of resources. We do not shoot neutral people in our space. We do not discourage market development or competition. We don't seek enemies, but we're happy to engage those who chose to make us their enemies.

We make something out of nothing.

Why does it irritate me when imperialists start talking down to those of us in the 0.0 alliances as though we had no honor and no respect for others simply becuase the environment in which we chose to live contains more direct threats to our safety? Because you don't have to worry about it... that's why. No one will ever be able to kill you simply because they want to in the place where both of you have chosen to live. The Empires are all about carefully planned war declarations and subsequent campaigns, but CONCORD is right there to make sure that everyone plays by the rules.

You'll never lose space, becuase the empires don't take one another's space. You'll never lose your stations, becuase you don't own any. The State takes care of you and effectively breastfeeds you your livelyhood.

So please, never mistake a genuine frontiersman for a pirate. As I have stated publically before, the similarity between us ends with the tactics we use against one another and the limited respect we develop for one another simply because we're both in a place where the glorious Caldari State and it's police can't protect us.

Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2006.03.01 02:16:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Gavin Paradise

It has now become fully apparent to me that I'm dealing with people who do not fully understand the dynamics of 0.0. I think that you Killer Gandry, as well as people like you, are under the false impression that the frontiers are war-torn, pirate-infested wastelands with little or no redeeming social or cultural value.


Laughs
My dear deluded friend, I know the mechanics of 0.0 space all too well.
Do you think that someone with a high security rating never went to 0.0?

I have been a member of alliances and I have battled in several wars, even in wars of which we knew we could never win.
So please go lecture someone about living in 0.0 who has no idea of such.

Originally by: Gavin Paradise

What's my problem with that?

Well, as you can plainly see, I work for the ISS. We build and maintain publically-owned trade outposts with a host of resources. We do not shoot neutral people in our space. We do not discourage market development or competition. We don't seek enemies, but we're happy to engage those who chose to make us their enemies.

We make something out of nothing.

Why does it irritate me when imperialists start talking down to those of us in the 0.0 alliances as though we had no honor and no respect for others simply becuase the environment in which we chose to live contains more direct threats to our safety? Because you don't have to worry about it... that's why. No one will ever be able to kill you simply because they want to in the place where both of you have chosen to live. The Empires are all about carefully planned war declarations and subsequent campaigns, but CONCORD is right there to make sure that everyone plays by the rules.


If you think that only the 0.0 corporations make something out of nothing your in greater need of a medical examination then I thought.
Allso please point out as where I looked down on the 0.0 corporations and alliances.
Yes you are part of ISS. Does that make you more valuable then a scientist in Empire or a miner that works all day to bring in the minerals to sell so he can support his family.
Not all feel a need like you to wander off into low or no security space. By looking down on those that stay in Empire space you just demote yourself to the same thing you accuse those people off, just a tad worse.

Originally by: Gavin Paradise

You'll never lose space, becuase the empires don't take one another's space. You'll never lose your stations, becuase you don't own any. The State takes care of you and effectively breastfeeds you your livelyhood.


Once again wrong as ever, the fact they don't have to fight off people the miners in empire space still have their issues, Angels, Guristas, you name it they have them too. As for pirates I only have to point out that the low secure spaces are more infested with them then 0.0.
And mine all day for your family and then call it breastfeed, I bet you don't even know the trouble they have to go through compared to 0.0 workers to get a descent living.

Originally by: Gavin Paradise

So please, never mistake a genuine frontiersman for a pirate. As I have stated publically before, the similarity between us ends with the tactics we use against one another and the limited respect we develop for one another simply because we're both in a place where the glorious Caldari State and it's police can't protect us.


Then why tell a pirate to keep on killing, a real frontiersman wouldnt do that unless he's too chicken to admit he has pirate urges himself but not the cohones to act on them

Originally by: Gavin Paradise

Keep killing Sevar. The 0.0 empires need targets like you since it seems there are quite a limited number of pilots these days with the cohones to live in 0.0, build something of their own from scratch and fight like Hell to maintain it... pirate or not.


Gavin Paradise
Alien Ruffneck Force
Ignes Immortalis
Posted - 2006.03.01 03:00:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Gavin Paradise on 01/03/2006 03:01:25
Originally by: Killer Gandry
If you think that only the 0.0 corporations make something out of nothing your in greater need of a medical examination then I thought. Allso please point out as where I looked down on the 0.0 corporations and alliances. Yes you are part of ISS. Does that make you more valuable then a scientist in Empire or a miner that works all day to bring in the minerals to sell so he can support his family. Not all feel a need like you to wander off into low or no security space. By looking down on those that stay in Empire space you just demote yourself to the same thing you accuse those people off, just a tad worse.


Whether or not imperialists and 0.0 residents are equally productive isn't up for debate here. Of course someone who lives in the Empires is as valuable as their respective frontier counterpart... but that isn't the issue. I'm talking about building things that you can potentially lose, and in the process of doing so, I'm pointing out that it's not an obstacle that you have to contend with then you let the powers-that-be control your destiny.

Originally by: Killer Gandry
Once again wrong as ever, the fact they don't have to fight off people the miners in empire space still have their issues, Angels, Guristas, you name it they have them too. As for pirates I only have to point out that the low secure spaces are more infested with them then 0.0. And mine all day for your family and then call it breastfeed, I bet you don't even know the trouble they have to go through compared to 0.0 workers to get a descent living.


Honestly, how can you compare Angels and Guristas attacking errant miners working in patrolled systems under easily managable conditions to fighting waves of active pod pilots bent on destroying what you have toiled to construct? The pirate cartels dedicate their most powerful instruments of war to the pursuit of harrassing the frontiers... not CONCORD-patrolled core systems. Mining Veldspar behind the protective shield of military superiority provided by the State and harvesting Dark Ochre with no security failsafes whatsoever are two completely different things.

Originally by: Killer Gandry
Then why tell a pirate to keep on killing, a real frontiersman wouldnt do that unless he's too chicken to admit he has pirate urges himself but not the cohones to act on them.


This remark of yours makes no sense. I told him to keep killing because I enjoy fighting (not pirating) and he's a viable opponent for me. God knows I'll never get a decent fight out of an imperialist unless my forces are at war with his... becuase, quite simply, our paths will likely never cross.

My appologies for reacting as aggressively as I have to your comms, but the State is definately no friend of mine. Everything of value that I possess, I recieved from operating on the edge of known space... not by adhering to the status quo.

Arron S
Gallente
Soviet Directorate of Eve
Posted - 2006.03.01 05:50:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Sunedyal Na'Shalorian
Edited by: Sunedyal Na''Shalorian on 27/02/2006 14:23:52
While yes, that may be true that the State and Federation share some common faults, no proper health care system, lack of funding for public education, the one thing we donít have in common is the fact that we threw off our yoke of oppression long ago.




It seems to me that Caldari who speak out against their corperate masters for being corrupt or try to stand up for the poor end up being kick out into 0.0 space for their Ideals just like in the Federation. Isnt that oppression?. Oppression of the people. No differnt from the Ammar Slavers if you ask me.

Halunoto Vankaalen
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2006.03.01 07:11:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Gavin Paradise
Everything of value that I possess, I recieved from operating on the edge of known space... not by adhering to the status quo.


Without adhering to the status quo in the first place, you would most likely be dead on some forsaken street corner rather than be raking in ISK in a far-off star system.



A fact too easily forgotten in this age of plenty.




Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
Posted - 2006.03.01 12:35:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 01/03/2006 12:38:11


Originally by: Arron S
The reality is... Both the Caldari State and Galentee Federation have alot in Common, Both the federation and State have massive poverty issues. and the rich elite(the ones who pull he string) just pass em off as scum of the earth, or call em lazy drunks. Both the State and Federation have little or no social programs for the poor. And expolit them every chance they get.

Your point being?

Poverty is a natural bi-product of success. The challenge lies only in making productive use of the poor.

Caldari pragmatism makes no room for such sentiments as those you use to measure the State, unlike the outdated Gallente ideology, which thrives upon such bleeding-heart notions.

Your comments are therefore merely indictments of the Federation.

Elrianmk2
Gallente
Posted - 2006.03.01 13:13:00 - [70]
 

I am curious, why do you believe that all Gallante are soft left wing, bleeding heart Liberals?

Caldari prime was attacked by Gallante forces after your attacks on the federation. Furthermore, the resurgence of right wing activists in federation space may start making the Caldari sit up and pay attention to what is going on on thier doorstep.

I am however more interested in how the Caldari are going to act with non-aligned Gallante pilots in thier systems, the corperation i currently work for is made up of Caldari and Gallante personell. The work ethics of both people is fairly evenly matched as i am sure is thier commitment to the corp. There are more similarities than differences between us. The major difference however remains as to how we percieve authority and the requirements to people who are different to us, after all most of the rabid comments i have seen thus far are Caldari. Perhaps they should learn to draw a viel over the past and focus on the needs of the future. After the Rieshard, hmm i can never say that name properly, incident our empires should be work together to attempt to prevent the massive amounts of civillian casualties that a war would cause. And as i understand from my Caldari Colleauges, you are not in a position to suffer large scale casualties.

Regarding the debate on Core systems and the surrounding space, lets be honest, niether can succed without the other. The core systems need the abundent minerals that the lower security systemshave, whilst the fringe systems need the pilots and investment from the core systems.

As to the Drama, i can only recall a curse from my youth, i do not recall where i heard it. It was one of the most potent curses around as i understand it.

May you live in interesting times.

Be careful what you wish for as it may come about.

Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2006.03.01 14:46:00 - [71]
 

Let me point out that even though the 0.0 systems have better trained and better armed pirates it's the low secure systems that have larger numbers of pirates.
And don't begin about Concord because I never saw a Concord maintain the law in those lower secure systems.

If you want to battle an outlaw then do so, but by cheering him up to keep on killing you are cheering for the wrong side and as such you have my contempt.

Now to the Gallente.
Read history as it was and not as it suits you best.
Gallente wanted to rule the Caldari and the Caldari had no wish to be governed by the Gallente. As soon as the Gallente saw that several Caldari corporations were conducting their business outside of gallente space the gallente went mad and demanded that the Caldari corporations would relinqish their assets to them and then work for the gallente.
The Caldaro corporations had no wish to do so and in return the Gallente started a war.
Then an accident happened and a Caldari killed some Gallente in it and in retaliation the Gallente started to bombard the Caldari homeworld.
If it hadn't been for a few brave Caldari the Gallente would have masacred an entire planet in their bloodthirst and would probably even have tried to enslave the Caldari race.

Unfortunatly for the Gallente the Caldari's bite was even harder then their bark and the Gallente had to look with weary eyes how the great Caldari State was formed with a fleet that could hold it's own and then some.

So please don't try to make the Gallente look like innocent bystanders. The reaped what they sowed.

As for Gallente in Caldari space.
If they don't proceed in hostile actions towards the State they have nothing to fear.
Other then the Gallente Federation the Caldari State sees no need in the killing of innocent civilians or podpilots, only to crush those that try to hurt the State.

Elrianmk2
Gallente
Posted - 2006.03.01 16:16:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Killer Gandry

Now to the Gallente.

If it hadn't been for a few brave Caldari the Gallente would have masacred an entire planet in their bloodthirst and would probably even have tried to enslave the Caldari race.

So please don't try to make the Gallente look like innocent bystanders. The reaped what they sowed.

Other then the Gallente Federation the Caldari State sees no need in the killing of innocent civilians or podpilots, only to crush those that try to hurt the State.



I do not intentd to misquote you, so i am responding to specific parts of your comments Mr Gandry.

Firstly, a deliberate terrorist attack on the domed underwater city was an accident? Interesting i wonder if that is my translator malfunctioning *looks puzzeled and taps a small device on his desk*

Why was the request that the Caldari abide by the same rules as every other member of the federation so hard to accept? If you were members of the federation and wanted to cede your membership of the Federation why did you not work through political methods rather than the terrorist movement that started? Furthermore why did you only start the attempts at a political arguement long after you had created the very senario that would force a military response from the Federation? I am aware that many wished to side with the Caldari, and were expelled from Federation space, however that does not justify the actions of the Caldari. Niether does the blame rest entirely with the Caldari, however i am tired of the constent comments that the Gallante were responsible for the war. The Caldari actions to attempt to undermine the Federation authority by building there gate systems and population centers was seen at the time to be a direct threat to the soverenty of the Federation. The manner in which the events were handled on both sides was appaling. But for all that enough is enough. Accept the fact that the Gallante responded to covert operations and then terrorist actions by the Caldari. These actions were percieved to be a significant military and socialogical threat to the Federation and were dealt with.

I do not condone the actions of the fascist goverment during the war, personally i hate the fact that so many inocents have been wounded and killed in the operational climate that has existed between us during and since the war. However the fact that the Caldari still harbour such hatred to the Gallante forces as to assist the Ammar in thier slave raiding in Gallante space both sickens and angers me.

Granted, many died during the war.
Dont dishonour thier memories by becoming the very thing you were trying to break away from.

Sunedyal Na'Shalorian
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.03.01 16:37:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Elrianmk2
Originally by: Killer Gandry

Now to the Gallente.

If it hadn't been for a few brave Caldari the Gallente would have masacred an entire planet in their bloodthirst and would probably even have tried to enslave the Caldari race.

So please don't try to make the Gallente look like innocent bystanders. The reaped what they sowed.

Other then the Gallente Federation the Caldari State sees no need in the killing of innocent civilians or podpilots, only to crush those that try to hurt the State.



I do not intentd to misquote you, so i am responding to specific parts of your comments Mr Gandry.

Firstly, a deliberate terrorist attack on the domed underwater city was an accident? Interesting i wonder if that is my translator malfunctioning *looks puzzeled and taps a small device on his desk*

Why was the request that the Caldari abide by the same rules as every other member of the federation so hard to accept? If you were members of the federation and wanted to cede your membership of the Federation why did you not work through political methods rather than the terrorist movement that started? Furthermore why did you only start the attempts at a political arguement long after you had created the very senario that would force a military response from the Federation? I am aware that many wished to side with the Caldari, and were expelled from Federation space, however that does not justify the actions of the Caldari. Niether does the blame rest entirely with the Caldari, however i am tired of the constent comments that the Gallante were responsible for the war. The Caldari actions to attempt to undermine the Federation authority by building there gate systems and population centers was seen at the time to be a direct threat to the soverenty of the Federation. The manner in which the events were handled on both sides was appaling. But for all that enough is enough. Accept the fact that the Gallante responded to covert operations and then terrorist actions by the Caldari. These actions were percieved to be a significant military and socialogical threat to the Federation and were dealt with.

I do not condone the actions of the fascist goverment during the war, personally i hate the fact that so many inocents have been wounded and killed in the operational climate that has existed between us during and since the war. However the fact that the Caldari still harbour such hatred to the Gallante forces as to assist the Ammar in thier slave raiding in Gallante space both sickens and angers me.

Granted, many died during the war.
Dont dishonour thier memories by becoming the very thing you were trying to break away from.



Shall we agree to disagree on this matter?

Just to respond a little to the 0.0 conversation:

I personally don't have nearly enough experience with that portion of space to comment intelligently, so I shall just sit back and observe the riposte's and returning comments as educational material.

Here's the prime factor of the Gallente/Caldari hatred: You bombarded our homeworld and almost committed an atrocity on par with the loses suffered by the Amarr and Minmatar in their continuing engagements. The main difference is: The planet that you struck (and subsequently attempted a defunct genocide) was and is our homeworld. The hate stemming from that kind of attack can't be forgotten in a few generations; especially when it is continuously reinforced by the on going Cold War between our two nations.

Now, I will grant you that the Caldari reciprocated with decisive and possibly unnecessary force, but when you attempt to complete extermination of a particular species you must expect are harsh and abundantly hostile response.

But, once again, this argument will only have us spinning in circles until the stars die. Which is why i said "agree to disagree?".

ugh

Elrianmk2
Gallente
Posted - 2006.03.01 16:48:00 - [74]
 

Very well Mr Na'Shalorian. It is pleasent to converse with someone able to accept facts, and a difference of an opinion. Fly safe, and if you cannot, then fly with honour.

*bows towards the screen*

Sunedyal Na'Shalorian
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.03.01 17:29:00 - [75]
 

*bows to his screen as well*

I always try to keep an open mind and view other peoples opinions as outlets into their lifestyles. It's much easier that way to learn about what motivates particular types of people.

Good luck to you in your missions.

Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
Posted - 2006.03.01 22:23:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Elrianmk2
I am curious, why do you believe that all Gallante are soft left wing, bleeding heart Liberals?

The fact that so many of your kinsmen espouse old-world ideals concerning "democracy" and "fairness".

I would respond to the rest but it was, frankly, quite dull.

Arron S
Gallente
Soviet Directorate of Eve
Posted - 2006.03.02 09:41:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 01/03/2006 12:38:11


Originally by: Arron S
The reality is... Both the Caldari State and Galentee Federation have alot in Common, Both the federation and State have massive poverty issues. and the rich elite(the ones who pull he string) just pass em off as scum of the earth, or call em lazy drunks. Both the State and Federation have little or no social programs for the poor. And expolit them every chance they get.

Your point being?

Poverty is a natural bi-product of success. The challenge lies only in making productive use of the poor.

Caldari pragmatism makes no room for such sentiments as those you use to measure the State, unlike the outdated Gallente ideology, which thrives upon such bleeding-heart notions.

Your comments are therefore merely indictments of the Federation.


So is your idea of productive use of the poor involve Indenturing them and forcing them to work for slave wages... Why dont you just enslave them?

One day the masses will raise up angainst this aristocracy known as eve

Sunedyal Na'Shalorian
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.03.03 14:43:00 - [78]
 

well for one slaves are horribly inefficient. examples:

1. you have to feed them
2. you have to house them
3. you have to control them
4. you have to protect them
5. you have to give them medical (unless you like repurchasing slaves every month)

it's alot easier to give someone a salary and let them handle all that. if you make it a decent amount you can even get more productivity out of a normal employee than you would ever get out of the forced work ethics of a slave. because, normally, if they are say Caldari, they measure themselves on the work they do. they want to earn that wage and the benefits that go along with it.

a slave could care less about what ever work he is doing. so in short, you save money and get a better product by hiring employees rather than whipping them into submission.

Elrianmk2
Gallente
Posted - 2006.03.03 16:44:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
The fact that so many of your kinsmen espouse old-world ideals concerning "democracy" and "fairness".


Ahh, i see the desire to allow your people to make up thier own minds is a bad thing? Or is it more the fact that you actually believe a system that allows you to be increadibly rich or pennyless on the same planet a bad thing?
Ahh forgive me you are Caldari and believe that giving aid to the needy is a bad use of isk?

As you find the rest of my comments "Dull", i shall not expect a reply to this, you have amply demonstrated your nature. May you fly with honour.

*Nods once to the screen*

Sunedyal Na'Shalorian
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.03.03 19:13:00 - [80]
 

Oh and in my previous transmission i used Caldari as my example because it is the culture i am most familiar with. For obvious reasons. After all, i AM Caldari.

Elrianmk2
Gallente
Posted - 2006.03.03 21:47:00 - [81]
 

I should be careful Mr Sunedyal, if the Amarr hear of this you may find some of your kinsmen being added to the slavepens. As i read the comments about the Golden fleet, they want to subjegate everyone who is not pure Amarr.

Sunedyal Na'Shalorian
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.03.03 22:45:00 - [82]
 

heh i'm afraid that we might be a bit too stubborn for reprogramming, but you never know. there probably are caldari slaves.

just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it's not happening after all.

but then again, minmatar are just as stubborn as we are...interesting paradox here.

Halunoto Vankaalen
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2006.03.03 22:59:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Elrianmk2
I should be careful Mr Sunedyal, if the Amarr hear of this you may find some of your kinsmen being added to the slavepens. As i read the comments about the Golden fleet, they want to subjegate everyone who is not pure Amarr.


The Empire's current standings towards the State would suggest otherwise.

Even if your pathetic attempt at trying to guess the motive of the Amarrians was true, the State holds an unparalled superority in arms over the other three Empires.

Elrianmk2
Gallente
Posted - 2006.03.06 13:22:00 - [84]
 

Arms mean nothing if you are outnumbered by several hundred fold, unless the Jove have been even kinder than we believe? Caldari may be brave and honourable fighters, but lets face the facts, you do not have the manpower for a long engagement when you are as badly putnumbered as you are. Perhaps your population may grow enough to fight off the invasion by the Ammar once they have finished using you. I doubt it.

Oh and incidentally, the current standings of the Ammar mean nothing when you consider the fact that the Ammar believe every other race is inferior to them and must be enslaved. It is not supposition, it is what the Tetrimon are pushing for. Watch your backs Caldari, at least you know where you stand with Gallante and Minmatar. We hide no daggers behind our backs.

Vanzer
Minmatar
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2006.03.06 17:16:00 - [85]
 

I left Minmatar space to get away from drama. Why the hell would I want more of it in my new home? Rolling Eyes

Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2006.03.06 17:48:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Elrianmk2
Arms mean nothing if you are outnumbered by several hundred fold, unless the Jove have been even kinder than we believe?.


You are right, arms means nothing, but then again it takes a Gallente to rely on numbers, where as a Caldari allso adds in quality.

Originally by: Elrianmk2

Caldari may be brave and honourable fighters, but lets face the facts, you do not have the manpower for a long engagement when you are as badly outnumbered as you are.


May? You are certainly an amusing little Gallente. We ARE brave and honourable. And we might have the smallest fleet out there, still the Caldari ships have proven their value countless times allready.
What the other races lack is the Caldari engineers. We keep our proud Fleet in prime condition and our pilots up to date to every new addition to a ship.
We don't mind being outnumbered as the passt allready has proven.
The Caldari were outnumbered by the Gallente opressors and still they were victorious in escaping the clutching grip of the Gallente.
So let's not talk odds in numbers but in quality. Then the whole table looks completely different.

Originally by: Elrianmk2

Perhaps your population may grow enough to fight off the invasion by the Ammar once they have finished using you. I doubt it.


Other then the Gallente and the Minmatar the Caldari see no need in increasing population numbers to fight back any agressors.
Better one good pilot then a few crappy ones.
Increasing population just for the sake of a MAYBE agression is economicly unattractive. It would only bring more unemployed who would liche on the weallets of those that succeeded in making something for themselves.
By regulation of the populous the State can hold a closer eye on the quality which works perfectly.
Not like the Gallente that breed like rabbits and bring more problems then solutions.

Originally by: Elrianmk2

Oh and incidentally, the current standings of the Ammar mean nothing when you consider the fact that the Ammar believe every other race is inferior to them and must be enslaved. It is not supposition, it is what the Tetrimon are pushing for. Watch your backs Caldari, at least you know where you stand with Gallante and Minmatar. We hide no daggers behind our backs.


Standings might mean little to the Gallente, and the Amarr might be a bit too focussed on their religion. The religion they practise however is the same thing which holds them from engaging any hostilities with the Caldari State. Even an Amarr zealot wouldn't go against their own doctrine and attack those they have in good standing when that other party isn't acting hostile towards them.
Ergo. We accept the Amarr as they are and thus the Amarr accept us as we are. So if I look at it more closely the Gallente are the biggest biggots out there since they refuse to accept the Amarr as they are.
The only reason the Gallente side with the Minmatar at the moment is the fact that the Gallente feel a storm comming and they again seek the shelter of numbers.
The see other races wanting to flee their opression and now need to replenish their numbers. And what's easier then to seem like generally concern about the Minmatar cause.
You Gallente play with your cards way too revealed and when push comes to shove your a petty excuse of space farers.
And an Amarr might hold a dagger, but atleast we see it because they will not only let us know they are holding it but even if they are going to use it.
Not like the Gallente like history proves.


Sakura Yoshimitsu
Posted - 2006.03.06 19:58:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Sakura Yoshimitsu on 06/03/2006 19:58:04
Originally by: Elrianmk2
Arms mean nothing if you are outnumbered by several hundred fold, unless the Jove have been even kinder than we believe? Caldari may be brave and honourable fighters, but lets face the facts, you do not have the manpower for a long engagement when you are as badly putnumbered as you are. Perhaps your population may grow enough to fight off the invasion by the Ammar once they have finished using you. I doubt it.

Oh and incidentally, the current standings of the Ammar mean nothing when you consider the fact that the Ammar believe every other race is inferior to them and must be enslaved. It is not supposition, it is what the Tetrimon are pushing for. Watch your backs Caldari, at least you know where you stand with Gallante and Minmatar. We hide no daggers behind our backs.


The Amarr already played the quantity vs. quality battle, and lost. And besides, the Caldari have more pod pilots then the other three empires combined. Thats a pretty huge advantage.

Narciss Sevar
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.03.06 22:01:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Sakura Yoshimitsu
Edited by: Sakura Yoshimitsu on 06/03/2006 19:58:04
Originally by: Elrianmk2
Arms mean nothing if you are outnumbered by several hundred fold, unless the Jove have been even kinder than we believe? Caldari may be brave and honourable fighters, but lets face the facts, you do not have the manpower for a long engagement when you are as badly putnumbered as you are. Perhaps your population may grow enough to fight off the invasion by the Ammar once they have finished using you. I doubt it.

Oh and incidentally, the current standings of the Ammar mean nothing when you consider the fact that the Ammar believe every other race is inferior to them and must be enslaved. It is not supposition, it is what the Tetrimon are pushing for. Watch your backs Caldari, at least you know where you stand with Gallante and Minmatar. We hide no daggers behind our backs.


The Amarr already played the quantity vs. quality battle, and lost. And besides, the Caldari have more pod pilots then the other three empires combined. Thats a pretty huge advantage.


Yet many of them don't show their alliegence to the state.

Sunedyal Na'Shalorian
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.03.06 22:06:00 - [89]
 

While the Amarr may be zealots, they do have a working economic system that is not tetering on the brink of collapse. Much as I deplore slavery it is their culture and therefore not something I would interfere with. Respecting another sovereign nations policies and laws is the first way of establishing a binding and lasting economic and political relationship. If i must hold my tongue on the course of slavery to acheive this, then so be it.

It's called compromise.

Something all the rules of all the sovereign nations understand and accept well. They understand that at times to acheive your goals and ends you must, at times, sacrifice a few of your personal beliefs for the gain of your nation.


Aside from that rahter philosophical statement, I firmly believe the Caldari would whoop up on anyone in our way. Twisted Evil

Elrianmk2
Gallente
Posted - 2006.03.07 00:01:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Sunedyal Na'Shalorian
Respecting another sovereign nations policies and laws is the first way of establishing a binding and lasting economic and political relationship. Twisted Evil


Firstly to ask this, Enslaving other members of anouther race is a highly respecting act wouldnt you agree? Destroying anouther culture is again a highly respectful act no? Perhaps it is my clouded mind viewing the real Ammar agenda and trying to warn you.

Originally by: Killer
You are right, arms means nothing, but then again it takes a Gallente to rely on numbers, where as a Caldari allso adds in quality.


I can only say Touche' your commitment to the state is commendible.

Originally by: Killer
May? You are certainly an amusing little Gallente. We ARE brave and honourable. And we might have the smallest fleet out there, still the Caldari ships have proven their value countless times allready.


That was never denied and i believe i ackowledged your abilities.However let me stress, in an all out war you do not have the numbers to survive. Against a foe who does not care aout losses you would not prevail.

Originally by: Killer
The Caldari were outnumbered by the Gallente opressors and still they were victorious in escaping the clutching grip of the Gallente.
So let's not talk odds in numbers but in quality. Then the whole table looks completely different.


I take it you are a believer in the return of Caldari prime and the destruction of the Gallante people because we expected you to pay your way in the Federation?

Originally by: Killer

Standings might mean little to the Gallente, and the Amarr might be a bit too focussed on their religion. The religion they practise however is the same thing which holds them from engaging any hostilities with the Caldari State. Even an Amarr zealot wouldn't go against their own doctrine and attack those they have in good standing when that other party isn't acting hostile towards them.
Ergo. We accept the Amarr as they are and thus the Amarr accept us as we are. So if I look at it more closely the Gallente are the biggest biggots out there since they refuse to accept the Amarr as they are.


Whereas enslaving people is perfictly acceptable? oh and not to mention accepting of other cultures beliefs, like ohh i dont know the right to be free?

Originally by: Killer
The only reason the Gallente side with the Minmatar at the moment is the fact that the Gallente feel a storm comming and they again seek the shelter of numbers.


No we seek to ensure the freedom of as many as we can, rather than the short term profit to be made in a conflict.

Originally by: Killer
You Gallente play with your cards way too revealed and when push comes to shove your a petty excuse of space farers.
And an Amarr might hold a dagger, but atleast we see it because they will not only let us know they are holding it but even if they are going to use it.
Not like the Gallente like history proves.


As i recall the Caldari made the first moves in that sordid affair, and niether side did what was right. As a response to your comment about our pilots skills, we both fought each other to a standstill, we had numbers and used them, you had tech and used that. The fact our ships were not as good as yours does not reflect on the pilots. Now i hope that you will stop painting me with the same brush as you paint the rest of the Gallante. I came to offer my thoughts. if they are upsetting to you i shall refrain from fueling your... opinions.


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