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Nick Curso
Caldari
TunDraGon
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.02.16 15:45:00 - [1]
 

Tbh the only real reason im writing this post is cause im bored ****less at university browseing the forum.

What has happend to Eve lately? Ive been playing this game for neally 3 years now and have done many different things in that time. What made eve special for me was the rich intellegent discussions, depth and polotics this game has always had that always set it out from the rest. Ofcorse weve always had flames but thats part of the fun.

But lately all i seem to see is petty schoolkid name calling p33n waveing and pettyness now for me this is a shame as eve always seemed to have one of the more mature mmorpg playerbases out there but that seems to be changeing. I know alot of the old timers have left and are no longer playing i see alot of new faces on the forums these days,but for some reason eve seems to have lost alot of its old characture, the intellecence and the depth of the political structures of the alliances. Now i know eve is a PvP game and now dont get me wrong here PvP is a hell of alot of fun if it wasnt i wouldent have been doing it for neally 3 years i love it.

Lately it seems to be turning into a CS in space which to me was not what eve was about. Theres no more reason to fight no more of the old hatered and respect that fired u up to actually fight eachother now it seems more like "waaaa my toys get off or i'll cry" the spirit of eve seems to be dwindleing.


Now i ask u aall please lets all of us try to get back the old spirit of eve and stop all the pettyness and lets blow the crap outta eachother for a reason ey?


P.S Please refrain from my corp or alliance up in relation to this post. Im not postoing this as a Member of SA/MASS cause tbh i hardly play anymore. This is wrote from my point of veiw and has nothing to do with SA/BOB/Fix whatever the ****s goin on or whos getting there ass kicked cause i dont really know.

Nick

NoOneKnows
Amarr
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.02.16 15:49:00 - [2]
 

Now you finally understand why forums are not worth posting on:)

Mindlles
Caldari
Dashavatara
Posted - 2006.02.16 15:49:00 - [3]
 

Stop smacking in local. Shoot more, :

Nimbu
Gallente
Alcatraz Inc.
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2006.02.16 16:10:00 - [4]
 

Lo there Nick,

Been wondering where you have been hiding. Must say all these months at uni, have really helped your spelling. :P

I agree with you, gone have the days of respect and fun play.

What's the cause of this, I'm not sure to be honest but what I can say has helped..... Kill mails. If there was no such thing, half the E-peen waving would disappear. People would just get on with what they have to do plain and simple.

Anyways I have work to do, see you online sometime.

Your Ex-God,

Nimbu.

P.S. You watch you have made a nice sensible post, no flaming or name calling, but I can bet ya the money you still owe me that it will turn into a flame fest!


Muthsera
Gallente
S.A.S
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2006.02.16 16:12:00 - [5]
 

Well. CCP could start whit banning just about everyone who says something against them.

But your right. The level of mature discussions have declined. Dunno why tbh. Might be that it attracks to much smack and imature behavior. And ppl don't bother posting becus of that. And secondly I think it's a matter of now giving away intel. Many of the older players don't really post at all becus of that reason.

rig0r
Gallente
The Gravedigger Company
Posted - 2006.02.16 16:35:00 - [6]
 

If we all needed a reason for shooting at eachother things would get really boring. No-one would be shooting eachother anymore, or reasons would be 'you bumped me at the gate, omgwtfwardec !' That's about as mature as me saying Nick Cursor and laughing out loud about it (just did Embarassed).

Fitz Chivalry
Gallente
Vengeance Imperium
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2006.02.16 16:43:00 - [7]
 

30% of it probably reflects your boredom with the game, even the best game can hold your attention only so long.

30% is probably because a lot of the more dedicated players (those that played since day one) have left having reached the end of their love affair with even and have been replaced by others that are perhaps not so committed/immersed

20% is the fault of all the pointless threads started by all the wannabee bad boy corps that have to have an announcement everytime they undock and drag everyone down to their level

20% is the fault of killmails and killboards which encourages e-peen behaviour and pointless gankings.

The percentages are of course totally off the top of my head but i think those reasons, to a greater or lesser extent, probably apply.

Halseth Durn
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.02.16 16:50:00 - [8]
 

I think that the mature (read: intelligent) players understand that yaking on the forums draws attention (and missiles) to ones self. I also know for a fact that these same players are currently building big, fat capital ships right now and we all know that this is a much easier task when not dodging hostiles.

Babs Johnson
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2006.02.16 16:59:00 - [9]
 

Killboards and NBSI (the policy, not the alliance). Those are the things that have made EVE less of a political and social MMORPG and more like Quake in Space.

As I sit here typing this, I truly cannot articulate any reason why ASCN are in Pure Blind -- clear across the map from their home -- fighing with Ekliptika. It's not because we're allied with their enemy IRON, because ASCN have been attacking us since long before we had any relationship with IRON.

They quite literally and simply started shooting at us one day. We weren't even a 0.0 alliance at the time -- we lived in Osmeden and we had just set up our first POS in Pure Blind. A twenty ship ASCN gang ganked an unsuspecting EKP rat hunter. And they continued to shoot at us, so we continue to shoot at them.

Really, we may as well be playing Quake. It's only about as interesting, and Quake has no monthly fee.

We're an anti-pirate alliance, but ASCN aren't pirates. ASCN isn't attempting to gain territory. They're not countering any attack we've made against them in the south.

There's just no reason for us to be fighting, so there's no reason to be excited by the fighting. ASCN's presence in Pure Blind is more of an annoyance than anything else. And really, I'm not paying $15.00 per month to be annoyed.

This isn't a complaint against ASCN specifically. I'm just using the EKP-ASCN relationship as an example of how shallow this game has become. Two alliances fighting for absolutely no particular reason. CCP's subscriber count is up, but i'm wondering if the golden age of EVE has passed. CCP provides the ships and the stations and the solar systems, but the players provide the politics and the atmosphere and the intrigue. No matter how many cool new ships and gadgets CCP may introduce, they won't make up for a lack of substance.

Originally by: Nick Curso

Lately it seems to be turning into a CS in space which to me was not what eve was about. Theres no more reason to fight no more of the old hatered and respect that fired u up to actually fight eachother now it seems more like "waaaa my toys get off or i'll cry" the spirit of eve seems to be dwindleing.

Nick


I quote this for the pure truth that it is. We need more rabble rousing, more impassioned in-character speeches, more intrigue.

We need more people concerned about their in-game personas than about their scores on their alliance's killboard.

Perhaps it's time to parole Jade? I don't know. But love her or hate her, I can pinpoint the time these forums started to decline in interest at the date she was banned.

Other than that, I don't really see what CCP can do to fix this problem. It's the players. A lot of the creative old school roleplayers have left and they haven't really be replaced.

So I repeat the plea of the OP:

Originally by: Nick Curso

Now i ask u aall please lets all of us try to get back the old spirit of eve and stop all the pettyness and lets blow the crap outta eachother for a reason ey?

Nick

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2006.02.16 17:06:00 - [10]
 

think the increase of flamage/lameness in the eve-O forums is directly porpotional to the number of WoW players that decide to come to EVE.


j/kVery Happy

*snip*

No discussion of warnings or bans on the forums please - Jacques

Omeega
Amarr
Ab Origines
White Noise.
Posted - 2006.02.16 17:12:00 - [11]
 

hi nick.

glad to see you back in SA.

HC MasiEEE
Minmatar
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.02.16 17:15:00 - [12]
 

Glad you are still alive nick Very Happy

I think alot of **** stops when the lame alts get banned.

Evelyn Exe
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.02.16 17:17:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: rig0r
If we all needed a reason for shooting at eachother things would get really boring.


This is not true for everyone.

When I was up North recently I would get far more satisfaction from shooting a G/IRON member in a rifter than I would get from destroying a "neutral" in a battleship.

Without some roleplay reason behind it I cant get over excited about blowing someones ship up. The fact that lots of people can is exactly whats wrong with the game.

thoth foc
Caldari
Arcane Technologies
The Five
Posted - 2006.02.16 17:27:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: HC MasiEEE
Glad you are still alive nick Very Happy

I think alot of **** stops when the lame alts get banned.


i gotta agree with this 1..

but largely this is just an effect of increasing numbers of the game..

Sarmaul
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.02.16 17:34:00 - [15]
 

also, get rid of this southern nap business - things were far more interesting when you didn't nap your neighbour just because they were your neighbour.

thoth foc
Caldari
Arcane Technologies
The Five
Posted - 2006.02.16 17:42:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Sarmaul
also, get rid of this southern nap business - things were far more interesting when you didn't nap your neighbour just because they were your neighbour.


actually it would be nice if a hugh cosmic event totally re arranged the map.. and everyone's neighbours suddenly changed :P


Cowboy
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
The Requiem
Posted - 2006.02.16 17:46:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Cowboy on 16/02/2006 17:49:22
Originally by: Babs Johnson
Killboards and NBSI (the policy, not the alliance). Those are the things that have made EVE less of a political and social MMORPG and more like Quake in Space.


You have a very vaild points there. I used to love watching the politics but those days have seemed to have passed. We players need to take responsibility and can't point fingers at CCP all day. People in EvE want to take the easiest route (regarding in-game play) possible due to the risk vs. reward. I think giving players too much control in shaping things can backfire. It's one of the greatest things in Eve, yet it has been one of the down falls. And I agree all NAPS suck ass.

I'm prob in the minority, but I would love to see some sort of MAJOR role play type NPC wars. It would be cool to have players (depending on their race) NPC alliace were called back to their empires to help fight on the front lines ie; Caldari/Amarr vs Gallente/Minnie. Just to bring back some kind of political tension.


Taurequis
Gallente
Waylander 01
Posted - 2006.02.16 17:56:00 - [18]
 

Hi,

Excellent discussion topic Nick, glad you posted.

I'd like to echo the comments above about kill mails turning pvp into CS in space.

Fighting for a cause seems to be fading away in EVE.

I might even suggest the trend for smaller scale pvp only alliances, who have no real interest in claiming large areas of space or maintaining big industrial backbone is another symptom of lack of fighting for a bigger cause.

The "old" days were marked by several 2 - 3 k person alliances fighting to make some form of empire. From that we only have ASCN left.

Bring back those ebil admin heavy, internally divided, resource wasting mega alliances and we may see a return to the dogged, bitter wars of ideology and territory.

Keep with this "Gank Clan" devolution, kill board worship and the e-peen contests are unfortunately here to stay.

Best Regards,

Taurequis

Blacklight
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.02.16 18:25:00 - [19]
 

Several key factors have inhibited sensible, intelligent and engaging discussion on the forums.

1) Firstly and most critically, as all things start with the creators and owners of the game and these boards, the decision to make the forums such a soft cuddly safe place to be by CCP killed off the big political discussions of times gone by. We used to have a situation where, and Jade was a good example of this, people would wage ideological war on each other in this forum. It was entertaining, it was engaging and it was people's imaginations made real.

The challenge was that such forum wars and discussions required a certain sense of perspective and balance between personal interests and in game persona. It was this challenge that an element of the player base couldn't handle and rather than move that group of people towards acceptance of it CCP chose the easier solution *snip*. Victory number one for the CS generation and loss number one for the space opera fans.

2) Alts. It's way too easy to post idiotic flames with no fear of consequence in game. Why would those amongst us with something interesting and stimulating to add to a discussion bother when they know full well that some ****** with a 2 day old alt is going to say something ridiculous and can destroy a sensible thread in about 30 seconds flat?

3) The very slow implementation of in game tools to facilitate the creation of true player managed empires in 0.0 space has put many of the senior players, older corps and alliances in a situation where really we have nothing to fight over. It's rather hard to pursue a dream of building an empire and actively communicate about your ideology, beliefs, dreams and goals when you don't have the tools to build or defend that empire in game. We all set out believing it was going to be possible just look at the passion and dedication that went into the creation of the Venal, Fountain, Stain and Curse alliances in the early days when we all believed you really could create an empire of 2000-3000 people. Over time we discovered that you can't because you can't adequately defend your space as the tools aren't there, you can't securely manage the limited tools (POS roles anyone?) available, you can't effectively manage functions within an alliance because there's no tools similar to corp management (but that still wouldn't go far enough), until recently you couldn't even really set up an effective industrial infrastructure in 0.0 space so we were always all spending a large % of our time in empire doing the things that we wanted to do as part of our grand dreams out in 0.0... I could go on forever.

Why is it that when intra-alliance warfare develops the most often used tactic in defence is to try and bore your enemy to death?

The above arguements don't even touch on the fact that there is very little meaning or benefit to building your empire in a particular part of space let alone fighting to gain new territory and expand your empire. Resources and assets across the universe, even with the introduction of complexes, are still too homogenous. So the practical motivations that drive a lot of conflict are missing.

With luck the introduction of more regionally specific resources as planned with the introduction of localised ingredients for booster production will help. With luck the introduction of factional warfare, although this is going to be slow in coming and limited in implementation to begin with (for good reason) may help give meaning back to why we fight. With luck the introduction of new starbase structures, shipyards, research facilities etc. may give people more motivation to build, create and therefore feel the need to champion and defend their empires both in game and on the forums.

There is hope but like all things in Eve it takes a very long time to be realised.

qrac
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.02.16 19:09:00 - [20]
 

games and strategies evolve. the nbsi policy is a perfect example of how tactics evolve. you can't imagine how much problems the passport system fa had caused and we all know what happened to cfs. some stuff work and some don't..

the playerbase growing also changes the way people behave on the forums because now you're one of many and not one of few. when eve was a small game there weren't any stupid posts like: omg first! *snip*


Porter Hadlend
Gallente
Righteous-Indignation
Posted - 2006.02.16 19:55:00 - [21]
 

The FA passport system was one of the best systems for space management ever laid down - at the time, and in it's first conceptualization. It allowed the alliance to hold the space but share it. There was a point to claiming it. Making money, having our home - civilizing space.

It's like frontier work.

Sadly it got abused, and well.. there are plenty of FA issues I could go into.

To be honest I do miss the days of FA vs CA, being allied with NORAD (old NORAD).. the CFS conflict and alliance... the political drama with SA and CFS. Installing and working with FIX when CFS tanked, the Rev0lution, all that good stuff..

Fun times were had.. my corp now is expanding horizons again... We won't just build, fight and die for the sake of building, fighting and dieing though. We will stand for something we believe in.

We make our own history.

Jacques Archambault


Gallente
ISD YARR
Posted - 2006.02.16 21:10:00 - [22]
 

Please do not discuss moderation/forum policy on these forums and respect the rules. If you have any questions regarding the latter please feel free to email us at mods@ccpgames.com.

Jacques'

Jacques Archambault


Gallente
ISD YARR
Posted - 2006.02.16 22:13:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Jacques Archambault
If you have any questions regarding the latter please feel free to email us at mods@ccpgames.com.


How about comments, Jacques? I wrote a detailed email on where I thought the mod team were going wrong, I certainly didn't expect much, if any, of it to be considered, even that was obviously too much because I didn't even get a "thanks for your input", mail.

Perhaps if we at least thought the mod team were reading our emails we might be more inclined to follow your advice, rather than making the comments here?

Thanks for removing my post and proving my point, btw.


I have kindly requested that all discussion of moderation be taken to mods@ccpgames.com. This email address is working, and we do receive emails. If you have a spam filter, it could be that our response to you might have been blocked. Please send us your email again (and allow mods@ccpgames.com to come through the filter) if you believe that we didn't receive it.

As a general guidine when writing us (not referring to anyone in particular), it helps to be polite. Rude emails will not be entertained with a reply.

This thread has drifted off topic and started a debate on moderation and as such will be locked. Please respect the forum rules and abide by them.

Thank you,

Jacques'


 

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