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blankseplocked [RMR] Cormorant setup
 
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Garnell
Posted - 2008.02.27 11:34:00 - [61]
 

Im new on using Rail guns so heres something i try out.

5x 150mm scout (iron)

1x Optical Tracking computer I
2x small shield extenders
1x Shield booster

1x Extruded Heat sink I

Any thoughts where to go from there? Only for rat hunting or does it go for pvp?
Shield i got 1156hp
I got 40km optimal range.


Alaxiana
Posted - 2008.02.27 11:50:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Garnell
Im new on using Rail guns so heres something i try out.

5x 150mm scout (iron)

1x Optical Tracking computer I
2x small shield extenders
1x Shield booster

1x Extruded Heat sink I

Any thoughts where to go from there? Only for rat hunting or does it go for pvp?
Shield i got 1156hp
I got 40km optimal range.



Don't use Heat sink its for lasers...

Argustinian
Posted - 2008.04.12 11:48:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Argustinian on 12/04/2008 11:49:07
This has done me well in PvE as a Lv 1 mission runner (never had a problem), for ratting down to 0.5, and for cleaning up after corps mates while adding a little anti-frigate screening to the fleet. NOT for PvP.

High
4x 125 Proto Gauss - Thorium as the GP load
1x Missile launcher (whatever) - Bloodclaw
3x Salvager's
or a tractor in place of the Launcher if its a clean up job, but its not really important - I find you get better salvage from un-tractored wrecks, but YMMD

Med
Shield Extender of your choice
Arcjet AB
Small Shield booster of your choice (ratting)
1x slot free for optional extras, sensor booster if sniping, extra tank etc.

low
Gauss field balancer for the RoF boost

Ok I've been popped twice (warkills) in this set up, once by two gents gatecamping in Myrmions and an hour ago by a Demios who caught me comming out of a station, but I don't think that counts either way - I was toast (and stupid toast at that) anyway.

It starts killing at about 27km for me, two guns per target for frigates, missile for the leaker's, turn and gain range at about 5km doing about 404m/s flat out. The Burner and guns run forever, spot healing the shield and the salvagers chew the cap a bit but no real problem. Better yet it tends to cluster frigate kills in a nice ball at about 15km for easy cleaning.

On running a warp stab - for PvE or open PvP I have nothing to say, but as a noobish little fish trying to swim about his business in HiSec, when wardecs send the sharks into a feeding frenzy - they're bloody magic. :)

Argus

Arkeladin
Posted - 2008.06.22 02:14:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Arkeladin on 22/06/2008 02:15:47
So far, running this setup's been working well for Pve/ratting:

Highs:
4x150mm Compressed Coil Railguns (uranium ammo)
1x125MM Compressed Coil Railgun (also uranium)
1x Limos Standard Missile Launcher (Sabretooth EM)
1x Salvager 1

Meds:
1x Shield Extender 1
1x Electrochemical Cap Booster (Cap 150 charges)
1x Shield Booster 1
1x Invulnerability Field 1

Lows
1x PDS, soom to upgrade to a MAPC.

So far, it's worked really well, and have tanked a 3 NPC cruiser mission in it (two Exequors and a Thorax) in it. In PvP it's probrably get popped quickly, but for missioning it's been rocking so far.

That's with low skills (still have to get Weapon Upgrades and some others up to 5 - I have Eng 5, Electronics 4 to fit that setup, and should be able to fit a couple of blasters for close-in work soon as I get Upgrades to a decent level).


Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.06.22 02:25:00 - [65]
 

[Cormorant, Inty-Be-Gone]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

1MN MicroWarpdrive II
Medium Shield Extender II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed

75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Gremlin Rocket

Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I


For PvP, 75mm rails + rigs are far better than 150mm or 125mm. Optimal range is a bit shorter, but tracking is far better, damage is the same (since you fit a magstab instead of a grid mod), and you get the medium extender to easily out-last a frigate. It's a good ship for making interceptors cry or dominating in low-level FW complexes, just don't take it up against anything cruiser-size or bigger, you'll insta-pop. Swap one of the tracking computers for a disruptor II if you need to bring a point.

SgtRaider
Caldari
Blue Moon Ventures
Posted - 2008.07.03 01:35:00 - [66]
 

I have just purchased one of these destroyers and am not too impressed, but it does work. I am fairly new to the game, one week, and had a blast using it on drones in a mission.

Set-up
HIGH-7 railguns using uranium rounds.
HIGH-1 standard missle launcher using bloodclaw missles.
(some dont like missle launchers on this but i do)
MED-4 small shield extenders
SMALL-1 ballistic controller (for missle guidance)

I went through and smoked 20 drones no problem, just keep an eye on your shields, if it get low warp out and warp back, but you should not if you keep an eye on who your tracking. I like the ship but not what I expected it to be. Twisted Evil

Battlecheese
Posted - 2008.07.03 06:07:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: SgtRaider
I have just purchased one of these destroyers and am not too impressed, but it does work. I am fairly new to the game, one week, and had a blast using it on drones in a mission.

Set-up
HIGH-7 railguns using uranium rounds.
HIGH-1 standard missle launcher using bloodclaw missles.
(some dont like missle launchers on this but i do)
MED-4 small shield extenders
SMALL-1 ballistic controller (for missle guidance)

I went through and smoked 20 drones no problem, just keep an eye on your shields, if it get low warp out and warp back, but you should not if you keep an eye on who your tracking. I like the ship but not what I expected it to be. Twisted Evil

OK, we have a few leetle issues here.

1. PLEASE dump that ballistic controller for a magnetic stabiliser. Your dominant weapon system is the railguns.
2. You don't specify your guns, but you should probably be thinking of 125mm guns.
3. Drake pilots have destroyed caldari warfare. dump those extenders, replace with a small boster and some passive hardners. Possibly a webber in the last mid if you're tanking fine, and keep getting swarmed.

Prometheus Exenthal
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2008.07.03 09:48:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
setup and stuff


150s & 125s with a single TC and/or tracking rig track interceptors more well enough at range. Not saying that anything is wrong with your fitting, but I would make your primary focus to be range before tracking speed.

I'll leave my hate of people putting MWDs on certain ships for another thread Wink

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.07.05 08:58:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
setup and stuff


150s & 125s with a single TC and/or tracking rig track interceptors more well enough at range. Not saying that anything is wrong with your fitting, but I would make your primary focus to be range before tracking speed.


Three important things here:

1) 150s do not fit on the Cormorant. Forget they even exist.

2) 125s provide somewhat better max range, but that's pretty much irrelevant. Frigates that are actually doing anything relevant are inside 30km (especially inside FW complexes, where the warp gates force you in close), so both ships are going to be using 20-30km ammo. Since the 75mm setup fits a damage mod instead of a MAPC and has plenty of spare grid for weapon rigs, damage is almost exactly identical on both ships at a fixed range, but the 75mm rails track much better.

3) By fitting 125mm rails, you give up the medium shield extender. While it's not enough to help you against anything cruiser-size or larger, it's a ton of EHP for a frigate/inty/AF to deal with.

So in short: 75mm rails have the same range, same dps, much better tracking, and the option to fit the MSE II. There is absolutely no reason to use 125mm rails on a Cormorant.

Quote:
I'll leave my hate of people putting MWDs on certain ships for another thread Wink


MWDs are mandatory on every non-capital ship in the game, PERIOD. There is no discussion allowed on this point, you are just wrong.

BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2008.07.05 13:42:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: BiggestT on 05/07/2008 13:43:00
Edited by: BiggestT on 05/07/2008 13:42:27
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
stuff.


this guys speaks the truth!
ive been burning lev1's for guristas in venal with this setup..but it kicks arse against ceptors aswell..my mate thought hed try orbit me in his crow and laugh at my wee cormarant, he had his mwd and was orbitting at 20km..he has typical nav skills of most ceptor pilots..

well what i did was trade one of the tracking scripts for an optimal range script..my rails now had optimal at standard ceptor orbit range Twisted Evil
he didnt last long..sc****d his armour and turned the rack off hehe.

even though its a pain flying one again, as cerbs are much cooler, they are fun for a go and the extender works wonders forhp

*ps dont bother with rigs ;)

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.07.05 14:36:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: BiggestT
*ps dont bother with rigs ;)


Use the rigs. They're cheap, and they're the reason 75mm rails are so good. You get better base tracking, and then you use all that spare grid to fit optimal/tracking rigs. End result: same damage at all relevant ranges as 125mm rails, with much better tracking. Without the rigs, you'll lose a lot of damage from having to fit longer-range ammo, and you won't track as well.

Prometheus Exenthal
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2008.07.05 16:30:00 - [72]
 

The tracking difference between 75mm and a proper 125/150mm fit is pretty much irrelevant. 75mm don't track well enough to kill drones without a web, and any interceptor that comes too close (sub 5km) doesn't orbit fast enough to out track 125s or 150s.

Here are the base tracking numbers on a lvl5 with no rigs or TCs:
75mm - 0.24375
125mm - 0.15937
150mm - 0.13125


Unmodified 150mm railguns will track an interceptor orbiting at your average speeds of 6km/s. UNMODIFIED.
Putting a tracking scripted TC and a metastasis rig and you're looking to ruin some inty pilots day with 35+7.5km(Thorium), or 49+7.5km(Iridium).

Obviously you would use 125mm over 150mm, but you see the point I'm trying to make. Destroyers don't need to use the small guns to track like mad. Their job is to pick off interceptors, and to do it as fast as possible. 75mm's don't have the range or damage output to do so effectively (they struggle to do 100dps let alone 50km).

Side Note:
Don't tank wrecks. The only way a destroyer survives a fleet battle is if you kill everything before dying, warp out before dying, or self-destruct before dying.

Also, no MWD on a destroyer simply because:
1. You're still slow as ****, and making yourself bigger will just get you killed faster. If someone wants you dead, you're going to die.

2. Kills your powergrid and makes it damn hard to fit 125s let alone 150s.

This is just what I've learned from experience with destroyers. Keep in mind, this is for PvP, not PvE. NPCing is a completely different story.

Dr Jamius
Gallente
NEW EDEN CLEANING SERVICES INC.
Posted - 2008.07.05 17:29:00 - [73]
 

[Cormorant, Sniper]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range

150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
[empty high slot]

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

Kicks butt in defensive fleet ops and I've the killboard stats to prove it. :D

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.07.05 22:49:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 05/07/2008 22:50:41
Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal
Unmodified 150mm railguns will track an interceptor orbiting at your average speeds of 6km/s. UNMODIFIED.
Putting a tracking scripted TC and a metastasis rig and you're looking to ruin some inty pilots day with 35+7.5km(Thorium), or 49+7.5km(Iridium).


Who cares about ranges of 35-50km. Any frigate that's doing anything useful in a fight is going to be inside 30km. And at 20km, 75mm rails will rip apart a rigged, faction-fitted inty, not just your average 5k T2 setup.

If you want to shoot stuff at long range, bring an Eagle or Vulture. Destroyers are for close-range frigate killing, at the ranges where cruiser-size snipers can't track well enough and/or in FW complexes where Rapiers aren't allowed.

Quote:
Obviously you would use 125mm over 150mm, but you see the point I'm trying to make. Destroyers don't need to use the small guns to track like mad. Their job is to pick off interceptors, and to do it as fast as possible. 75mm's don't have the range or damage output to do so effectively (they struggle to do 100dps let alone 50km).


Try fitting your ship properly. 75mm rails do the same damage at 25km as 125mm rails (and it's over 100 dps). The extra range of 125mm rails is irrelevant, as you won't be shooting at targets that far away.
Quote:

Side Note:
Don't tank wrecks. The only way a destroyer survives a fleet battle is if you kill everything before dying, warp out before dying, or self-destruct before dying.


Again, 100% wrong. Your tank is intended to deal with frigates, and a MSE II works nicely for that. The main place you're going to be using a destroyer is in frigate PvP, most likely in a FW complex where bigger ships aren't even allowed. In fleets, destroyers are pretty much irrelevant, you use a Vulture or Eagle for sniping, or a Rapier for close-range frigate killing.

Quote:
Also, no MWD on a destroyer simply because:
1. You're still slow as ****, and making yourself bigger will just get you killed faster. If someone wants you dead, you're going to die.


What part of "mandatory" do you not understand? You fit a MWD for range and transversal control, not for tanking. A ship without a MWD is a comedy killmail, and a request to join an NPC corp.


Quote:
2. Kills your powergrid and makes it damn hard to fit 125s let alone 150s.


And this is why you don't fit 125mm rails. If you can't fit a MWD on your setup, you downgrade stuff elsewhere until you can.

Prometheus Exenthal
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2008.07.06 00:45:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Who cares about ranges of 35-50km. Any frigate that's doing anything useful in a fight is going to be inside 30km. And at 20km, 75mm rails will rip apart a rigged, faction-fitted inty, not just your average 5k T2 setup.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but it will hit anything sub 30km as well. Don't believe me? Run the numbers yourself, or hop on the test server. Put a TC on it and be even more amazed.

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Try fitting your ship properly. 75mm rails do the same damage at 25km as 125mm rails (and it's over 100 dps). The extra range of 125mm rails is irrelevant, as you won't be shooting at targets that far away.


I don't know what kind of fleet fights you've been in, but targets don't exactly.. y'know.. stay withing a 30km bubble of you. ESPECIALLY interceptors.

Originally by: Merin Ryskin

Again, 100% wrong. Your tank is intended to deal with frigates, and a MSE II works nicely for that. The main place you're going to be using a destroyer is in frigate PvP, most likely in a FW complex where bigger ships aren't even allowed.

Fair enough, but you can fit an MSE with 125s.

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
What part of "mandatory" do you not understand? You fit a MWD for range and transversal control, not for tanking.

Oh dear. Transversal control against what exactly? A battleship will still hit you, let alone cruiser and below. And you won't be outrunning any frigate or cruiser sized ships.

Seriously though, give it a try before you throw a fit.
You don't fly it the same way, but you will get much better results. The extra range is completly worth it because you will no longer have some tiny 30 below damage radius & tacklers will have trouble pinning you down.

FYI, 125s scripted & rigged will track Evil Edna and whatever ridiculous orbit/tackle speed Smile

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.07.06 09:10:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 06/07/2008 09:12:42
Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal
Sorry if I wasn't clear, but it will hit anything sub 30km as well. Don't believe me? Run the numbers yourself, or hop on the test server. Put a TC on it and be even more amazed.


I HAVE run the numbers myself: 75mm rails hit even faction-fit rigged interceptors, while 125mm rails will have problems tracking even a mid-range interceptor at close range. The simple, unarguable fact is 75mm rails track better, and tracking is the most important attribute on a destroyer.

Quote:
I don't know what kind of fleet fights you've been in, but targets don't exactly.. y'know.. stay withing a 30km bubble of you. ESPECIALLY interceptors.


An interceptor that leaves 30km range is out of the fight, and your job is done. In FW complexes, it's very easy to keep your gang in a pretty tight radius, so a frigate outside 30km has lost tackle on everything in your gang. And if you're talking about a fleet scenario other than low-level FW complexes with small gangs, you are flying a Rapier, Eagle or Vulture, not a Cormorant.

Quote:
Fair enough, but you can fit an MSE with 125s.


Uh, no you can't. Please give me a 125mm II setup that can also fit a MSE II, I'd really like to see it.

Quote:
Oh dear. Transversal control against what exactly? A battleship will still hit you, let alone cruiser and below. And you won't be outrunning any frigate or cruiser sized ships.


Ok, let's make make this very simple: you have tracking problems with a target. You turn on your MWD and fly manually at the right angle. Transversal drops, your guns start hitting perfectly, and your target pops. And yes, you will be out-running frigates (other than inties) and cruisers, or at least matching their speed.

BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2008.07.06 10:08:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal
stuff


dude, are u smoking something? even with superior tracking on my 75mm,s and the ceptor at optimal, the guns will often miss..
125's and 150's will be even more fail, its just that 75mm hit enough times due to rof etc, that the interceptor will die rather fast..

and NO always use a mwd..the extender stops friggies popping u first, and ur HIGH if u think a ceptor wont be averaging 20-22km from you, its standard warp disrupt range! a ceptor is a tackler Razz

the reason destroyers can be effective is becuase they arent used much, and most tacklers have the mentality that destroyers are utter fail, and try get you. When they die you then laugh. And no, dont use a destroyer in anything other than low lvl misisons or fw ;)

plz do some fleet ops before posting next Laughing


Prometheus Exenthal
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2008.07.06 14:42:00 - [78]
 

@ Merin Ryskin, for fleet scenarios, yes a T2 equivalent is a better choice. However, not everyone can fly those.
As for a 125mm setup, here:

[Cormorant, Fleet [125mm]]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Tracking Computer II x2
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

125mm Railgun II [CN Thorium] x7

Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I


---------------------------
4904eHP
103(122)dps @ 35+6.3km
0.20718 tracking
---------------------------



Originally by: BiggestT
dude, are u smoking something? even with superior tracking on my 75mm,s and the ceptor at optimal, the guns will often miss..

Then you are doing something wrong, my catalyst has worse tracking than the above setup, but can track any faction-fitted, polycarb'd, implanted interceptor.


Originally by: BiggestT
ur HIGH if u think a ceptor wont be averaging 20-22km from you, its standard warp disrupt range! a ceptor is a tackler Razz

No ****. If you don't understand ammo types, let me just say 125s with Antimatter do 20+6.3km.

Originally by: BiggestT
plz do some fleet ops before posting next
I fly both a Coercer and a rail Enyo in fleets. Neither of which have any trouble tanking, and neither has an MWD (Enyo has AB). I know what I am talking about.

Evil Edna
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2008.07.06 15:47:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal


FYI, 125s scripted & rigged will track Evil Edna and whatever ridiculous orbit/tackle speed Smile


nah it wont, but it would track most everything else

Prometheus Exenthal
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2008.07.06 16:30:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Evil Edna
nah it wont, but it would track most everything else


I disagree, and here's why:
125s with 2 tracking scripted TC2s & 2 metastasis rigs will track a Crow with a 20km/s transversal.

With Thorium
20km - 75% chance of hit
30km - 89% chance of hit


With Iridium
20km - 75% chance of hit
30km - 89% chance of hit
45km - 94% chance of hit


@ 25km/s transversal the chance of hit is down ~5%.
Tracking speed is 0.30039


So there you have it Smile
My Coercer has tracking of 0.45634 with 30km range. Destroyers are great Razz

Serapo Petrotestes
Caldari
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
Posted - 2008.08.14 13:25:00 - [81]
 

Hi folks. Nice read in this thred.

Any update on the cormorant effectivness past the nano nerf? Will it now be even more viable with the chance to trade more dps for less tracking?

Info would be appreciated.

Prometheus Exenthal
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2008.08.14 13:48:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Serapo Petrotestes
Hi folks. Nice read in this thred.

Any update on the cormorant effectivness past the nano nerf? Will it now be even more viable with the chance to trade more dps for less tracking?

Info would be appreciated.


Yes and No.
The Thrasher will still outclass every destroyer short/mid-range, but the Cormorant will still be the range king.

Waenn Ironstaff
Caldari
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
Posted - 2008.11.07 15:52:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal
@ Merin Ryskin, for fleet scenarios, yes a T2 equivalent is a better choice. However, not everyone can fly those.
As for a 125mm setup, here:

[Cormorant, Fleet [125mm]]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Tracking Computer II x2
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

125mm Railgun II [CN Thorium] x7

Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I


---------------------------
4904eHP
103(122)dps @ 35+6.3km
0.20718 tracking
---------------------------



Originally by: BiggestT
dude, are u smoking something? even with superior tracking on my 75mm,s and the ceptor at optimal, the guns will often miss..

Then you are doing something wrong, my catalyst has worse tracking than the above setup, but can track any faction-fitted, polycarb'd, implanted interceptor.


Originally by: BiggestT
ur HIGH if u think a ceptor wont be averaging 20-22km from you, its standard warp disrupt range! a ceptor is a tackler Razz

No ****. If you don't understand ammo types, let me just say 125s with Antimatter do 20+6.3km.

Originally by: BiggestT
plz do some fleet ops before posting next
I fly both a Coercer and a rail Enyo in fleets. Neither of which have any trouble tanking, and neither has an MWD (Enyo has AB). I know what I am talking about.


Is the MAPC really worth it? Considering the inherent penalty to rate of fire, wouldn't it be more beneficial to have the Damage Mod instead and forego a bit of of the tank/tracking?

Prometheus Exenthal
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2008.11.07 16:44:00 - [84]
 

FYI the ROF penalty was only added to reduce lag.
And yes, I think it's worth it. If I want a short range destroyer I'd fly anything BUT the Cormorant.


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