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Rawne Karrde
Bre-X Interstellar Shipyards
Ejectile Dysfunction
Posted - 2006.02.06 16:52:00 - [31]
 

I don't remember who it was but in market discussions some totured soul went and looked up the market data for capital ship and component bpo's that were purchased off the market and in a 6 month time, over 1.2 trillion isk was spent and left the game that way alone.

as for isk sinks hitting every tom **** and harry for isk all the time just gets annoying. I think CCP has a good way of doing it, isk flows up and so its just easier and ofcourse impacts less people to just make the top guys pay through the nose.

I'm not even close to being one of those and I've been hit with the nasty skill prices for carriers etc as well as buyin capital ship bpo's myself.

Don't confuse supply/demand market forces with inflation.

Moghydin
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.02.06 17:35:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: x racer
Not really sure though cuz your post comes off as a bit of a whine about the people that have played well, and hard, for a long time to accumulate a fat wallet.


Yoy mean won the lottery?

Donis Ardis
Posted - 2006.02.06 17:55:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Moghydin
Originally by: x racer
<snip>


Yoy mean won the lottery?


Not sure what you mean there.. is your smart remark indicating that the only way to make huge amounts of isk only possible by winning a Tech2 BPO?




Gretchen Dawntreader
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.02.06 18:06:00 - [34]
 

Yeah, you dig a hole, drop a bag of money in, then make sure you don't walk over or near the spot and kill the sapling...then you get a money tree you can shake for money bags...

Oh wait, that was Animal Crossing. Nevermind... Embarassed

PhotoJerk
Posted - 2006.02.06 18:13:00 - [35]
 

give me a break, those suggesting we tax the rich are just insane. You get what you put in.. You really sound like a democrat w/ this ideology. The day they start taxing on type of player more than another = you will ruin the game.


There are plenty of ways to make money and inflation really isnt a major problem.

Oh wait, why dont we just tax the rich and send welfare checks to the poor.


This is a hard core MMO, get over it.

Lisa Run
Posted - 2006.02.06 18:14:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Lisa Run on 06/02/2006 18:28:03
Edited by: Lisa Run on 06/02/2006 18:16:30
Originally by: Donis Ardis
Originally by: Moghydin
Originally by: x racer
<snip>


Yoy mean won the lottery?


Not sure what you mean there.. is your smart remark indicating that the only way to make huge amounts of isk only possible by winning a Tech2 BPO?



If you have luck it's the way with the least effort. E.g. if I had been hunting for 6 hours non-stop to finance my pvp ships and then a lucky T2 BPO winner (or much worse: isk buyer or even an isk buyer, who invested in t2 BPOs) told me that mission rewards and bounties are too high, then I wouldn't be very amused.Idea (*edit* ... and in the end they get my isk anyway.)

Sai Maru
Posted - 2006.02.06 18:24:00 - [37]
 

Unless I missed it, I think one of the largest ISK sinks hasn't been mentioned yet...

the cost of corp. alliances and wars.

from the players guide

Quote:


All wars that do not involve an alliance as aggressor or victim are classified as normal corporation war. Normal corporation wars cost 1,000,000 ISK * (the number of wars the corporation is currently involved in) to initiate. The update cost is the 1,000,000 ISK.

For wars declared by an alliance, the starting cost is 1,000,000 ISK * (the number of corporations in the alliance) * (1 + the number of wars the alliance is involved in currently). Each week the war goes on a new bill is calculated using the same formula and issued to the alliance.

Any CEO with the skill Empire Control trained to level 5 can form an alliance. Forming an alliance costs 1,000,000,000 ISK. Alliances also have a maintenance fee of 1,000,000 ISK per month per corporation in the alliance. That means that an alliance of 10 corporations needs to pay 10,000,000 ISK each month to have access to alliances actions. The Executor Corporation receives and pays the bills.




Just think about some of the larger alliances out there and the wars that they wage. The cost is probably peanuts to them, but to me, damn, that's a lot of ISK.

just my .02 ISK

Lurtz
Caldari
Gunrunners and Gamblers
Posted - 2006.02.06 18:35:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Sirilonwe
Buying from NPC's isn't an ISK sink. You trade an item for another. If you resell this item, you get your money back. Buying a HAC isn't a ISK sink. It's a money transfer. It maybe a sink for you, but the overall ingame money doesn't change at all.

Known sinks:
- implant destruction upon pod explosion
- clones
- insurance
- ship destruction (modules aren't insured)


It appears you don't understand what is being discussed, Buying from NPC is an isk sink. You many sell and get your maoney back , *but it is from another player* the total isk in game is reduced.

Implant destruction, no no isk has left the game. It may cost you to replace them, but as they are not bought from npc it is merely a transfer not a sink

Clones are indeed a sink

Insurance is not for many players, unless 2/3 or the time the insurance expires uncollected it brings more into the game than it takes out. Value may leave, but raw currency is created.

Ship destruction, see insurance. Value may leave, but isk is created.


Sergeant Spot
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
Posted - 2006.02.06 18:43:00 - [39]
 

While everyone seems to focus on the extreme high end items, on more modest items there has been significant DEFLATION in recent months.

Remember 3isk Trit?? Trit is not as low as it was when I started Eve, but its getting there (Was in the low 1.2 region when I started looking at mineral prices). Many named NPC items have dropped, be they modulated lasers, or local hull expanders.

But the T2 BPOs will always be expensive as long as they are rare.

Adam C
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.02.06 18:45:00 - [40]
 

game is progressive m8. where u been?

u know titans are out now, dont u?

Imran
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.02.06 18:49:00 - [41]
 

I have a combined total of 25 mil between 2x 2yr old chars...send me isk please.


No, seriously...please. lol

Worc
Imminent Ruin
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2006.02.06 18:58:00 - [42]
 

just send me your isk and I'll promise not to use it, that'll help....plz?

BoinKlasik
Senkei Jin
Posted - 2006.02.06 19:00:00 - [43]
 

I think Econ majors shoudl have to play EVE as part of a case study in economics. We have so many of the chereicteristics of a real economy its frightening...or just really really cool!

MissileRus
Posted - 2006.02.06 20:24:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: MissileRus on 06/02/2006 20:26:01
Dont know how fat the everyones wallet is, but mines pretty empty so i can be the isk sink. Why bother to make the devs spend time on something that can be solved in a few clicks?.. They need their time!

So the isk that goes from your wallet to mine is dev time, think of it as if your buying more time for the dev team! Everyones happy, you loose isk, i gain isk(lazy) dev gains time = win!1

Corps that has too mutch isk, dont they usualy go to war and spend it all right away like chicks going on a shopping spree anyway? Maybe we need chicks implemented, theres a great money sink! That takes dev time though, so i could be the chick too! your wallet happy and slim, me wallet happy and fat, devs happy!

And since i dont like big corps that mutch, dont worry about the isk fueling wars or being put to bad use.. unless they get me and asks for a ransom later.. but hey thats concords problem!

So theres no problem i solved them all Twisted Evil (devs can thank me later for getting them more time, beer will do)

oh and i promise not to buy stuff ofc!

Oku Kee'lus
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2006.02.06 21:06:00 - [45]
 

Never mind the poor, or the rich. To hell with supply and demand... the most scary thing about this thread is that apparently, 3/5 of the EVE population doesn't know what a 'money sink' is Shocked

Lardarz B'stard
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2006.02.06 21:13:00 - [46]
 

i know someone with 80bn

he swears its all from mining

Gronsak
Amarr
Posted - 2006.02.06 21:27:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Lardarz B'stard
i know someone with 80bn

he swears its all from mining


i know someone who controls 5 minin barges and a apoc to tank spawns. AND 2 iteron 5s.
afaik he uses 2 PC and a laptop for the lot


he says on average he makes over 100mils an hour. and one time he did a 48h shift only taking the DT for breaks. a la 5bils isk there.
how people can play the game like that is beyond me though.ughughughugh



Moghydin
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.02.06 22:06:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Moghydin on 06/02/2006 22:06:24
Originally by: Donis Ardis
Originally by: Moghydin
Originally by: x racer
<snip>


Yoy mean won the lottery?


Not sure what you mean there.. is your smart remark indicating that the only way to make huge amounts of isk only possible by winning a Tech2 BPO?



I'm not saying that it the ONLY way in game, but it's the only way to do this without "working" in Eve instead of playing. Surely, you can mine a fortune if you forget about your RL and start sleepng on the DT's only. And even if you do, it's not the ISK that growes on trees. The ISK that growes on trees is the ISK that earned from Tech II production. It's the megaprofits out of nowhere actually. And it's influence on the game is hard to underestimate.

Imagine 2 entities at war. 1 Has lots of tech II BPO's other doesn't. Now sooner or later they reach the point when the wallet will have to be "refilled" due to PvP losses. Now, the entyty without tech II BPO's will have either to mine or to rat, which takes time and is actually withdrawing it from PvP (this activity can also be easily interrupted). The other entity is using the BPO's and producing tech II staff - takes less time (I mean playing time, not actual time), much harder to disrupt, huge rewards. All this while continuing PvP as usuall. Now guess who will win the war.

Donis Ardis
Posted - 2006.02.06 22:51:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Moghydin

The ISK that growes on trees is the ISK that earned from Tech II production. It's the megaprofits out of nowhere actually. And it's influence on the game is hard to underestimate.



This could not be more wrong. ISK from mining, NPCs + ship insurance to a degree is isk out of nowhere. Isk from T2 production is isk that is already in the system. Very few Tech2 BPO's give "megaprofits" and profit from the good ones ranges from 12-25mill per DAY. This does not include the effects of logistics/market competition (market hub price wars).

The true infulence on the game(market in reality) are the big market players, the resellers, this is where the money is. Buy and sell without undocking.




Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
Posted - 2006.02.06 23:06:00 - [50]
 

Most of the skillbooks on my next shopping list will cost tens of millions of ISK each. That'll sink my ISK for sure.

Nobler
Caldari
Divine Power.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2006.02.06 23:10:00 - [51]
 

One way to make isks in EvE is not to spend them. You mention some of the isks sinks being clones, destroyed ships, and insurance.
I have some rules that I follow to maximize my profits in EvE-
1. Insure every ship in case you get ganked. If you can't afford the insurance, don't fly the ship or don't even buy it.
2. Don't fly a ship you cannot afford to loose. I see to many n00bs flying around in ships they have no business being in. If you buy a Raven then you should be able to replace it if you loose it the same day, if you can't don't fly it. Everything comes with patience and work. Nothing in this game is handed to you on a silver platter.

3. Fly safe. Don't go through space less than .5, if you do be prepared to be podded. If you can't handle that see items 1 and 2. If you goto 0.0 be prepared to loose your ship and pod. If you can't afford that then don't go there. I know the GM's are trying to get more people out of Empire..the solution here is read #2.

4. Almost like number 2, don't fight in a ship you can't afford to loose.

5. Teamwork will earn you isks. Yes mining is boring, but I have been in corps where they pay $2 million a can, even if it was loaded with veldspare.
Also- Have someone bring a well fitted mining barge, someone with a frighter, and someone to stand guard and not go AFK on you. Either refine the ores and sell them somewhere at good market value, or just sell the ore at good market value and divide the profits up. A full can of kernit can easily yield a 100 million if you sell it in the right place.

6. Use warp stabs and use book marks in the sectors you are operating in. If you can't fit a warp stab in favor of another module then see item #2. If you don't make time making bookmarks then don't whine about ship loss and insurance being isks sinks. Also armour and hull repairers come in handy instead of paying for the repairs.. These items are relativley cheap and can be fitted. Then undocked, used, then unfitted again. It may take a little time but better then spending 1 million isks+ on repairs!

7. Usually building your ship or modules can be done cheaper then buying them already built. Someone in your corp should be a producer and usually these characters will build a ship or module if you supply the minerals, bpc, and sometimes factory fee. For instance my Ferox only cost me 12 million. I bought the Zydrine and Nocixum. Then I mined the rest and recycled loot to get the rest of it..my corp already had a bpc for the Ferox and I wasn't charged for that.

My point being you can't save/make money if you keep spending it. Specializing in one or two areas will save you a lot of money in skill books, ships, and related equipment. People that have been playing this game for a while that have isks don't have to spend them execpt on consumbles.

Now since I have offered my advice I feel that I can say now that MSYDS is recruiting miners. If you are interested please evemail me, convo me, or join MSYDS recruitment in game.

Regards,

Nobler




DJTheBaron
Caldari
FinFleet
KenZoku
Posted - 2006.02.06 23:11:00 - [52]
 

complain about 5 all you want but chekc our killboards, we are a huge money sink to eve

and look at faction modules etc, billions of isk fitted to billion isk ships

blueprint avalability is the t2 chokepoint tbh

Chade Malloy
Ardent Industrial
DEM0N HUNTERS
Posted - 2006.02.06 23:22:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Chade Malloy on 06/02/2006 23:23:05
Originally by: Gronsak

i know someone who controls 5 minin barges and a apoc to tank spawns. AND 2 iteron 5s.
afaik he uses 2 PC and a laptop for the lot


he says on average he makes over 100mils an hour. and one time he did a 48h shift only taking the DT for breaks. a la 5bils isk there.
how people can play the game like that is beyond me though.ughughughugh




Making isk isnt the real problem...not getting bored while doing it is.

I know i could make ~ 80mil per hour with two accounts...but guess what, my wallet holds only enough money atm for a spare BS + equipment.

I could raise the money to build five dreads in the time i need to train for them, but why should i do that? Dreads = boring and easy targets in fleet battles. Flying fast inties is cheaper and much more fun. And - interesting enough - Intie prices are kinda stable or even lower than 6 months b4.
You wont find many pvpers with lots of money on their hand, and combat ops can take a lot of time if you are searching a region for a good fight (= no time to mine or doing mission) .

Basically the industrialists build...and build and build...so we have more targets to blow up. Just a matter of personal preferances, they have their fun amassing insane amounts of (useless) isk, we have the fun in the actual competition on the battlefield. And you can still win any given fight with T1 equipment (and the right setup)

Alexis DeTocqueville
Na Geanna Fiaine
Posted - 2006.02.06 23:26:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: PhotoJerk
give me a break, those suggesting we tax the rich are just insane. You get what you put in.. You really sound like a democrat w/ this ideology. The day they start taxing on type of player more than another = you will ruin the game.


There are plenty of ways to make money and inflation really isnt a major problem.



Before you make an even bigger fool of yourself: The Federal Reserve determines monetary policy in the United States, not Congress. So please, stop posting.

Oventoasted
Fleetworks
The Spire Collective
Posted - 2006.02.06 23:30:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Lardarz B'stard
i know someone with 80bn

he swears its all from mining


i know someone who controls 5 minin barges and a apoc to tank spawns. AND 2 iteron 5s.
afaik he uses 2 PC and a laptop for the lot


he says on average he makes over 100mils an hour. and one time he did a 48h shift only taking the DT for breaks. a la 5bils isk there.
how people can play the game like that is beyond me though.ughughughugh





who is this friend i want to worship him as a god!ShockedShocked

Siren Shiva
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.02.07 00:04:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Siren Shiva on 07/02/2006 00:03:58
/emote waters her ISK tree.

Klasanov
Posted - 2006.02.07 00:05:00 - [57]
 

Keta Min:

Quote:
wts clue. ship destruction is a huge isk generator.


Actually, ship destruction just puts ISK into the hands of a producer.

Sirilonwe:

Quote:
Buying from NPC's isn't an ISK sink. You trade an item for another. If you resell this item, you get your money back. Buying a HAC isn't a ISK sink. It's a money transfer. It maybe a sink for you, but the overall ingame money doesn't change at all.


No. Buying from NPCs IS an ISK sink.

To illustrate by example...

There is 1000 ISK in the game, and player A has 500 ISK, and player B has 500 ISK, Player B buys 100 ISK worth of materials, produces something and sells it to player A for 200 ISK.
Player B will now have 600 ISK, and player A will have only 300 ISK. 900 ISk exists in the game. It is a sink.

Implants are only sinks if its bought from an NPC corp. Same with buying modules. Just because you lose the ISK, doesn't mean it went out of the game. For something to be an ISK sink, it has to disappear from the game, not simply end up in someone else's hands.

Kel Shek
Posted - 2006.02.07 00:21:00 - [58]
 

Quote:
Yes, it's starting to become a problem. Some people have so much ISK that it is literally impossible to hurt them - they gain so much ISK for doing nothing from their investments that they can't match the gain of ISK with their own stupidity in losing ships. That should never happen.


your kidding right?

it would be far more "something wrong" if it COULD NOT happen. in fact it'd be pretty bizzare if it couldn't.

it happens in real life, (people getting to a degree of wealth where their lives are entirely financed on profits and GAIN from investments)

the fact that everything is more dramatic here, bigger toys, bigger investments, bigger losses, doesn't change it that much.

I woulda sworn people were saying "the inflation is starting to really be a problem" or whatever before I left the first time... pre-exodus. and its no shock to me that "they" still are. sure the market HAS changed alot since then.

From what I'm seeing, with my big gap in time and all... is that I think the higher population, and changes to mining and astroid regeneration, are likely a much greater effect on the market than macro miners, or inflation.

Quote:
My suggestion - ISK tax. The more ISK you own, the greater the tax, starting when you reach 500mil ISK (so as not to screw over the newbs). It can be avoided, true, by spreading ISK across multiple alts, but it's a start...
what would be the point of that? gonna give people with less than a mill free money once in a while?

seriously. theres nothing wrong with being rich.

now thats not to say I have no issue with the T2 bpo system... it needs far more transparency, and more in general. theres no reason for so many things to be as rare and hard to get as they are. being more expensive is one thing, but they should be obtainably expensive... if that makes sense. like for example, I got my Ishkur for under 10m. but I had to wait a week to get it at that price! 10m is reasonable for that. but it should be readily avaliable at that price, rather than having to make 20 jumps and wait a week.

but I think transparency would help alot. like a report of how many of which BPO's ARE actually out, which ones are active, and system reports on when new ones are released. not even neccesarily naming who they go to, but just that they ARE released.

and I propose a system where if a T2 BPO isn't used for say, 3 months... as in completely ignored, unused, unresearched, un-traded, then it "degrades" to a high-runs BPC. maybe double max runs or something, depending on how much max runs is, then that "slot" be open for it to be found with the R&D lottery again.


Temerlyn
Minmatar
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
Posted - 2006.02.07 02:16:00 - [59]
 

even though you cant compare eve to real life got to consider that companies across the world deal with assets that are worth billions apon billions of dollars.

So while 45billion may seem alot it is probably a large isk sink for the person in question. Albiet it will eventually make its isk back after 2 years.

our company can float 1-2 billion isk Profit a week without even trying. We have had to invest in Isk buying more characters to deal with production.

then the capital age is a major isk sink, most capital ships will not be sold on the market, except for maybe carriers and dreads on a regular basis, if you see a mothership or titan on sale then something has gone wrong in some ones head.

its all relative

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.02.07 02:18:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Klasanov
Keta Min:

Quote:
wts clue. ship destruction is a huge isk generator.


Actually, ship destruction just puts ISK into the hands of a producer.


The insurance, however, creates ISK Wink


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