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blankseplocked Missile + Launcher changes on Chaos
 
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Jarjar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2003.09.04 15:55:00 - [181]
 

Hrm damn...
I mined quite a lot of scordite, plagioclase and pyroxeres yesterday. Why?
So I could manufacture a few cruise missiles, namely Cataclysms.
Then I got to chaos, and found out that they require zydrine?
Paradises require MEGACYTE, which makes them cost about twice as much as others?

Please! change this back, I see no reason to have them require rare minerals...
At least it sucks for me since I cannot mine zydrine/megacyte all by myself, only with the corp, and that way I won't be getting it, the corp will.
Sad

Ulstan
Posted - 2003.09.04 17:09:00 - [182]
 

I don't think making cruise missiles cost Megacyte and Zydrine is a very good plan.

It's enough of a hassle and expense to get/manufacture missiles as it is without needing rare ores :)

Rhiannan
Amarr
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.09.04 17:37:00 - [183]
 

Quote:
Here's another matter on the missile thingy, ever thought of the 'push'? If you take a BS weighing, oh, couple of thousand tons. And then you take a missile. Then you have the missile detonate next to the BS. Here comes the fun part, you'r battleship is thrown 200-300m of course.

My point is that they do way to much push imho. Now if they did dmg enough to motivate that push.. but as they are, doing like 10% shield dmg, and then flinging the ship around like a glove. It's a bit silly really.


The missile itself is not hitting your ship and pushing it around, in fact, the missile is gone before it gets to your ship. It's the blast force from the explosion that's pushing your ship around. Consider the fact that a decent Cruise missile has about as much explosive power as a small tactical nuc', add that to the fact that your ship is in a vacuum with no resistance to movement, and what do you expect? Razz

Valeria
Caldari
The Spang
Posted - 2003.09.04 19:41:00 - [184]
 

Can anyone post the new mineral reqs. for, say, Cataclysm Cruise missile and Bane Torpedo?

I can't access my blueprints on Chaos since I switched corp, and i'm very interested in knowing. Embarassed

Ana Khouri
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.09.04 20:06:00 - [185]
 

Quote:
It's the blast force from the explosion that's pushing your ship around. Consider the fact that a decent Cruise missile has about as much explosive power as a small tactical nuc', add that to the fact that your ship is in a vacuum with no resistance to movement, and what do you expect? Razz


You are missing something here while saying it at the same time.

your ship is in a vacuum with no resistance to movement

You don't get any blast/shockwave in a vacuum, too, because there is no resistance aka matter.

Let's take a nuclear bomb - what is the main output of it? A LOT of energy. The most damaging effect of a nuke is it's shockwave, though, which isn't originating from the bomb itself. The energy output of the nuke is superheating nearby matter (most of it air), which in turn expands explosivly, forming the shockwave.

Now the same thing in space - what is forming the shockwave? Nothing - we have a vacuum there. All the target get's is a intensive energy bombardement. While that is certainly not healthy for the crew, it delicate electric parts or it's outer hull, it has not enough kinetic force to have such a big effect on a ship with a large mass.

A purely kinetic missle can have a effect on it's targets speed/movement direction, but in order to do so they would need to travel a whole bunch of mangitudes faster than it's target to cancel out it's far kighter mass and not a sole magnitude as in eve.

Jarjar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2003.09.04 20:21:00 - [186]
 

Edited by: Jarjar on 04/09/2003 20:25:35
Quote:
Can anyone post the new mineral reqs. for, say, Cataclysm Cruise missile and Bane Torpedo?

I can't access my blueprints on Chaos since I switched corp, and i'm very interested in knowing. Embarassed

I only have the BPs for cruise missiles, but I'll check. Hold on (I'll edit).

OK... Remember that 1 batch = 10 missiles.

Cataclysm BP specs (mineral lev 37):
2991.85 pyerite
14 isogen
7 zydrine

Paradise BP (mineral lev 0):
2332 trit
1998 pyer
162 mex
65 iso
2.2 megacyte

Devastator (mineral lev 17):
3620 trit
869 pyer
149 mex
4 nocx
2 zyd

Wrath (mineral lev 9):
3309 trit
1668 pyer
5 zyd

Valeria
Caldari
The Spang
Posted - 2003.09.04 21:55:00 - [187]
 

Thanks Jarjar. Interesting... I wonder if the smaller missiles require small bits of Zyd/Mega aswell. It's definitly alot cheaper now and the small amounts of Zyd/Mega can be gained from recycling crappy loot.

Rising Sin
GoonFleet
Posted - 2003.09.05 00:13:00 - [188]
 

Hm, megacyte and zydrine required for manufacture of big missiles aren't such a big deal. Just buy it with isk from selling some of the other minerals you mine.

Ka'loor
Amarr
Die Argonen
Posted - 2003.09.05 13:43:00 - [189]
 

I had a idea last night bout the different ROFs of missle type, so rockets get fired alot faster than lets say heavies. Couldnt CCP just prog in a ROF modifier on the missles, like the range modifier on ammo. So this way launchers would stay the same, but in effect we would have Fastfiring rocket launchers, and slow torp launchers. Dunno bout balancing though. Its just an Idea :D

Shock
Caldari
Posted - 2003.09.05 14:30:00 - [190]
 

Edited by: Shock on 05/09/2003 14:32:37
I would rather see Rockets as a shortrange low agility missile.

Where frigates can load up a lot of them when fighting battleships shortrange doing lots of damage by firing lots of them.

Just like the Hydra missiles of the Apaches.


It would be wrong to call them rockets if they would be very agile, since the difference between missiles and rockets is that missiles have guiding intelligence, rockets are a stupid propellant-driven payloads.

Ulstan
Posted - 2003.09.05 15:36:00 - [191]
 

I think rockets should be short range missiles that can be fired in gigantic waves.

Like, you load up your misile bay with rockets, and empty them all out at once.


QBall
Caldari
Xtreme Intruders
Posted - 2003.09.05 20:01:00 - [192]
 

I would love to see rocket's fire in packs of 10. That way I could fire 60 rockets every 7 or so seconds on a raven and CTD everyone with my 1337 missles :)

j/k

Actually that would be a cool idea.

Valeria
Caldari
The Spang
Posted - 2003.09.05 20:59:00 - [193]
 

Lag, anyone? Shocked

Dragon Emperor
Amarr
Dark Design
Posted - 2003.09.05 23:49:00 - [194]
 

I think frigate should be a perfect platform to use torpedos not big ships like battleship. even in real world, there's a ship class called torpedo boat, it's very very small but fire torpedos. and there's not many battleships fitted with torpedo lunchers.

Parallax Error
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2003.09.06 00:24:00 - [195]
 

I'd still like to see the system where the rate of fire is somewhat proportional to the volume of missile being fired.

Using made up numbers as I am far too lazy to check them myself.....

A small launcher can launch 1m3 of missile every 8 seconds. So loaded with a rocket at 0.3m3 it fires 3 rockets a go, or 1 missile at 1m3.

I suppose there'd have to be some sort of maximum launches per phase (launch tubes?) so you didn't have seige launchers spamming out 30 odd rockets a go, but it'd allow for more variation in launcher roles.

Would anyone fancy a battleship mounted rocket pack?

dalman
TunDraGon
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2003.09.06 01:15:00 - [196]
 

I'm happy about the nerf of stacking damage mods. This will make missiles much more useful.

QBall
Caldari
Xtreme Intruders
Posted - 2003.09.06 04:43:00 - [197]
 

Personally I think using rare minerals in BP's is a horrible idea. You don't see large ammo taking megacyte.

Just another way to screw missle users I say. I really hope it doesn't go life like that.

Missa
Caldari
Caldari Technological Division
Posted - 2003.09.06 08:06:00 - [198]
 

Using rare minerals in the production of any ammo type is a bad idea. Please reconsider it. I personally do not want to go to 0.0 space to mine minerals for missles.

Jarjar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2003.09.06 10:47:00 - [199]
 

Signed...
Sure, I can buy the megacyte, but that would increase the cost a LOT. I could recycle 60 crappy items per 10 missiles I want to produce, etc.

Nephlite
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2003.09.06 14:46:00 - [200]
 

Please lower the 110 CPU cost on seige launchers. They don't benefit from the weapon upgrade skill which lowers cpu use for turrets. 110 is crazy high for a Raven.

Finally please apply the battleship ROF bonus on all launchers and not only seige launchers as it appears to be set now.

Ana Khouri
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.09.06 20:02:00 - [201]
 

The lower CPU on the siege launchers is a good idea - using the ravens bonus for all launchers isn't, though.

All BS boni are for large weapons only, the raven shouldn't be an exeption there.

Pudee
Posted - 2003.09.06 23:01:00 - [202]
 

Please don't do this with the rare mineral reqs. Back when I was buying my bp's I purposely ignored the the missiles which required zydrine solely for that reason and now they all need zydrine and one even needs mega.

Jim Raynor
Caldari
Bad Kitty Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2003.09.07 04:48:00 - [203]
 

Quote:
The lower CPU on the siege launchers is a good idea - using the ravens bonus for all launchers isn't, though.

All BS boni are for large weapons only, the raven shouldn't be an exeption there.


Uhm.. how about more battleship sized launchers with lower capacity and lower requirements.. so the Raven can still get it's bonus? Raven should atleast still get it's ROF bonus for H-50s and it's variants.

I mean a ship with a large hybrid turret bonus can pick from a 425mm railgun, a neutron blaster cannon, an ion blaster cannon, dual heavy ion blaster, or a dual 250mm railgun.. all vary greatly, especially in powergrid usage.. yet all get the large turret bonus.

Rising Sin
GoonFleet
Posted - 2003.09.07 05:00:00 - [204]
 

Some serious lag on my pal's lower ROF idea like 5 pages into this thread. Yeah, changing ROF based on the size of missile vs size of launcher would make rockets and light missiles a useable weapon on cruisers and battleships. What do you think, TomB?

Ka'loor
Amarr
Die Argonen
Posted - 2003.09.07 12:58:00 - [205]
 

And yes, i hope missles wont need zyd or mega. You can mine in safe space without escorts for ammo needs, making it VERY cheap to produce, you dont need to find somebody to sell you the rare minerals, or you dont have to fly 45mins to get the zyd mining going. Basically if you factor the time needed for outer rim mining, or traveling around to get the rare minerals from a trader, price hasnt declined much. Btter let em use 8times as much nox, which you can mine easily.

Jash Illian
Minmatar
Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.
Posted - 2003.09.08 03:53:00 - [206]
 

Meg/Zyd for missiles? Hrm...if you're mining somewhere where there's significant nox in the rocks (ie: not mining Pyroxeres), you should get a supply of zyd/meg. Just have whoever's hauling pick up the junk the rats drop and recycle. I doubt we're talking bship amounts of those minerals here.

TomB

Posted - 2003.09.08 13:50:00 - [207]
 

This post made unsticky, defender missiles are still giving some problems which will be fixed.


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