open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked CCP: Why is a Log-on Trap not an Exploit?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 ... : last (14)

Author Topic

Amerame
Kernel of War
Posted - 2006.01.24 22:34:00 - [211]
 

Originally by: Selena Sellion
All CCP has to do is

Redesignate Logon traps as an exploit BUT not one which allows the victim to be reimbursed .

That wont up the petition level tooo drastically, but will at least mean the fencesitters will stop doing it.

As with all similar things, the ones that keep doing it will be demolished for their actions.


Yeah, great, and everytime a newbie get ganked in a belt (i.e. hundreds time a day) GM get a petition asking for an investigation. Getting the GM to handle an exploit is a short term fix, if it's to be labeled as an exploit it needs to be made impossible by game mecanism, not by GM intervention on a case by case basis.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.01.24 22:37:00 - [212]
 

"Game came to a point then current mechanics dont allow people to solve a problem in game, but they can solve it out of the game - so they do."

Being unable to beat the enemy without relying on advantage of numbers masked by hiding part of force is not "problem in game".

It's shortcoming of people in question. To blame the game for one's own shortcomings is simple cop out, but it doesn't make it any less inaccurate.

Nomen Nescio
Posted - 2006.01.24 22:45:00 - [213]
 

Originally by: j0sephine


Being unable to beat the enemy without relying on advantage of numbers masked by hiding part of force is not "problem in game".




Oh please. Will anyone engage in dreads against stronger enemy? NO because it TOO MUCH to lose. Will anyone engage with alts on frigs against stronger enemy - yes a lot will. Because it dones matter.

From my knowledge RAT engaged in many battles having both advantage and disadvantage. In fact for very long time in eve maxium losses were managable such that people could risk it for fun and fight.

But now we have such expensive ships and such a real wars that people dont risk it no more. So no one undocks alone on a golden magnat anymore.

In this situation it has nothing to do with RAT or whoever else ability to fight, it just stopts at the point then you can't possibly have a meaninful fight because the side which feels weaker retreats ro avoids combat.

WHY YOU SEND SCOUTS before the fleet of uber ships? Be brave and engage ANY enemy at sight. But you dont. You send covert ops all around because it has nothing to do with bravery. Its a real war - there is no "lame winner".

But as I said, game has built in 100% accurate scouting and has no ingame ambush ability. So RAT uses one out of the game.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.01.24 22:53:00 - [214]
 

Edited by: j0sephine on 24/01/2006 22:53:18

"Oh please. Will anyone engage in dreads against stronger enemy? NO because it TOO MUCH to lose."

Actually yes; people did it, do it and will keep doing it. There goes the whole precious reasoning why you "have" to ambush people and any possible validation for necessity of log on traps you could come with.


"WHY YOU SEND SCOUTS before the fleet of uber ships? Be brave and engage ANY enemy at sight. But you dont. You send covert ops all around because it has nothing to do with bravery."

It makes the difference between jumping in blind, and going into danger knowingly, while realizing fully what forces are involved. The latter allows for good planning beforehand, focusing on the right targets and whatnot.

There's bravery, and stupid bravado. Easy to confuse them but they are two different things.

Mah Kraah
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Posted - 2006.01.24 23:19:00 - [215]
 

Edited by: Mah Kraah on 24/01/2006 23:37:48
loggon traps are the most effective tool RAT could use to archive its goal.
this is not lame , it shows the inteligence of its leaders.
but keep this in mind:
this game is a competition, specialy in war situations, where the party should win witch use the game enviroment best.
loggon or logoff is not a in-game-feature, its a abuse of the physical realitys of the net and its mechanics.
a space ship can not dissapear from the universe and reapear at will.
why should RATīs ships be able to do so? what billion isk worth module have they fitted? how many month of skilltraing have they invested to get the perfect camouflage ?
loggon traps and loggof is cheating and should be banned and i ask ccp to seek a way to enforce this rule.
( may give the ships a 2 minute onliningtime when logging back into game in space? time to restart the reactor and ship systems)
if ccp allows loggon tactics it must also alow logoff tacktics, its just the other side of the same coin, witch means removing the pvptimer on loggoff(noone realy whant this). no double standarts please.
so RAT ppl what would u think after all ur afford to set up that trap , logging back in and all those neat targets would just dissapear?? same rights for everyone.
there is no way to hide ur presence in a solar system due to the jumpgate system. no matter how u cloak ur ship, no matter if u shut down ur systems and hide behind the metallic mass of tritanium asterides, the jumpgate register ur ship when u pass through the gate and it will notice that ur ship have not used another jumpg8 to leave again.
ur ship is listed as present in local and this information can be automaticly distibuted to everyone who enter system. to solve the need to hide ships from local u could remove the shipidentification and networking abilitys from 0.0 jumpgates. this would not count for jumpdrive ships ! technicaly they could enter a system unregistered anyway. if the identifcation and networking abilitys are removed for 0.0 gates, only those ppl who talk in local would be listed, due to the fact that they have to log into the com network. on the otherside , those who hide would also see no local chat and the ppl comunicate there, they are not logged into the comsystem. this might be a solution that serves both partys interest, the ones who like to hide and the ones who dont whant cheating and abusing of mechanics

Krakkan
ReDevils
Posted - 2006.01.24 23:34:00 - [216]
 

Edited by: Krakkan on 24/01/2006 23:36:02
Some are not getting the point i think ;) when a large amount of players use this tactic, the server lags out. and thats against the terms of use and it makes the "login trap" an exploit IMO.

but sometimes it doesnt affect the servers when small amount of players do it: well so far in every mmo doing something that makes other players unable to play/crashing their clients/making them freeze etc. has been called exploits and has not been supported, its the "classic" exploit to make your foe disconnect or lag out. CCP supporting players making the client AND server lag out? its against their own terms of use, and yes it is an exploit when you lag out your enemy on purpouse possibly disconnecting him+lagging out the system and stressing the servers making others lag and it should be petitioned as its against their terms of use to cause server lag like that on purpouse.

The tactic might have worked fine before when the servers werent as stressed as they are now, there might not have been any lag at all, but now when the cluster is experiencing quite a bit of lag this should be a big nono and should be bannable as it states in their own contract we all signed. if ppl will get banned for it or not is another story..

CCP should either let us all whine untill the new cluster comes, or announce that they will stand by their contract or change it to allow players to make server lag on purpouse.

someday someone is going to make a "login trap" in Rens or some other high populated area with a fleet, that day the server will die and everyone will complain so why not fix the problem now before it happens.

theres no reason to whine about not beeing able to use a tactic that makes the server and other players lag like **** right? i want a stable server dont you? if your in a fleet battle it lags like hell too, but thats different because its not "intentional" or being generated on purpouse to get an advantage over the enemy.

ppl complained like hell that some corps used drone spam to lag out their enemy and that was sutch a big exploit etc.. well this is the same thing, this is the new "toy" to use against the enemy because the lagdrones were nerfed. it realy is lol! you wont lag but your enemy and the whole system will but thats fine because CCP allows us to lag the server.

this was not a responce to anyone or intended to be responded too(dont quote lol!), its supposed to make ppl understand a bit more whats involved and hopefully it will be understandable Shocked

teh end..

edit: btw this has nothing to do with any corp, just the "feature"..

Selena 001
Posted - 2006.01.24 23:48:00 - [217]
 

This is almost EXACTLY like the thing where you have a newby guy in a covert ops to scout out positions and then have a bunch jump into the system and warp to him.

Its like a login-trap... only a damnsight more efective because there on you within 10 seconds of being in the system whereas the wait you recieve upon logging in gives almost ample time for someone to warp off. I know that method of catching people sucks cause a corpmate of mine was caught offguard with it. I was luck, I was aligned.

If someones in local, and you've scanned high and low and he isn't docked, he's in a covert ops. The time it takes him to locate you, is equal to the time it takes you to notice that he's not there. That should be reason enough for being careful.



General 0.0 Rule No.1 : Some unknown enters local, you align. If you dont see him, Scan him, or make some other form of visual contact with him in 15 seconds, he's most likely looking for you, thats when you decide to play it safe and warp, or stick it out and possibly get caught.

Albus
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.01.24 23:52:00 - [218]
 

Edited by: Albus on 24/01/2006 23:53:44
Originally by: Selena 001
This is almost EXACTLY like the thing where you have a newby guy in a covert ops to scout out positions and then have a bunch jump into the system and warp to him.


The difference is that the other side's scouts can also be scouting your fleet in the nearby system at the same time.

No-one objects to being ganked by a fast-moving fleet you hadn't scouted properly. Everybody objects to being ganked by a fleet which simply didn't exist a minute earlier cos it was logged off.

GigaIndy
Gigacorp
Posted - 2006.01.25 00:01:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: Rumata
what is definition of "login trap" ?

2 situation :

1)near station gang 5 BSs and 15Bs logged off - on login screens
on the start of battle(5on5) all make login and warp into battle

2)Situation of RAT.
1 RAT. dread start battle on moon 3-1. second dread on safespot aligned to planet 3. BS support logged off in system 1j from battle. we make logon regroup on ss, make gang, and going to help to our dreads

is these cases are same login trap ?






YES Rolling Eyes

Malka Badi'a
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.01.25 00:31:00 - [220]
 

Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 25/01/2006 00:32:56
Quote:
No-one objects to being ganked by a fast-moving fleet you hadn't scouted properly.
You mean the "Hey, I didn't see it coming!" excuse?
Quote:
Everybody objects to being ganked by a fleet which simply didn't exist a minute earlier cos it was logged off.
You mean the "Hey, I didn't see it coming!" excuse?

Same end result, different method. Wah wah wah. Both could have been prevented. But how?!?! Check the map for jump gate usage. If 20+ people have sent the gate count on the map lists, for the hour, oddly over the rest of the gates around it then that high traffic region should have been avoided alltogether in the first place. Ways exist to combat it, you just have to think on a more technical level than the enemy.

Complaining that you were ganked because you didn't see it coming? Please. Learn to scout with more than just a ship, for both situations.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Hellspawn666
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2006.01.25 00:49:00 - [221]
 

Its not the same log off tactics afaik used to be an exploit a long time ago but that was when people managed to actually get their ships to appear straight away opposed to the warp in after long periods of offline time which would be an exploit since you can instant soon as ure logged on then. Log on tactics dont really work all that great everytime you log on it takes different amounts of times so its a risky game and can easily go wrong i wouldnt say theres anything wrong with it tbh i admit its using out of game mechanics but isnt voice comms/ spying etc the same concept?

Eitherway to the OP the freightor should of died because you must of had a spy telling them when to log on or how would they know exactly when, also you must of been warpping there after they hadnt logged off for much time anless your telling me they sit there hours till their spy tells them somthings gonna happen on their log in screens?

Ive been yelled in local for log in trapps a hell of alot of times and i dont even use them, most of the time its used as a scapegoat for a fleet losing a fight (they cheated logging more on etc) when really it was proberly jump/warps ins.

Lexa A
Caldari
Serenity Prime
Dark Matter Coalition
Posted - 2006.01.25 00:49:00 - [222]
 

Might sound too simple for you, but why dont you just say its a exploit and if it happens to you you can petition it. Doesent it just show in your logs 50 piolts from corp a loged on at 15:30 or something. Pettion is made corp a is found to be useing this exploit thay all resive a warning. in a few weeks it would stop. and sorry about my rubish grammer and spelling im a pirate and we dont get to go to school. YARRRR!!

Nebuli
Caldari
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2006.01.25 01:02:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: Hellspawn666
Its not the same log off tactics afaik used to be an exploit a long time ago but that was when people managed to actually get their ships to appear straight away opposed to the warp in after long periods of offline time which would be an exploit since you can instant soon as ure logged on then. Log on tactics dont really work all that great everytime you log on it takes different amounts of times so its a risky game and can easily go wrong i wouldnt say theres anything wrong with it tbh i admit its using out of game mechanics but isnt voice comms/ spying etc the same concept?

Eitherway to the OP the freightor should of died because you must of had a spy telling them when to log on or how would they know exactly when, also you must of been warpping there after they hadnt logged off for much time anless your telling me they sit there hours till their spy tells them somthings gonna happen on their log in screens?

Ive been yelled in local for log in trapps a hell of alot of times and i dont even use them, most of the time its used as a scapegoat for a fleet losing a fight (they cheated logging more on etc) when really it was proberly jump/warps ins.


Think you might need to actualy read the thread before posting lol.

It wasnt a freighter it was a dread, it was engaging a similar sized fleet and had gone into siege mode, then another fleet (being told on TS to log in) suddenly appeared with more dreads and then killed him easily with much greater numbers.

I'm afraid your entire post is discussing a situation that didnt happen.....

Rumata
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.01.25 01:07:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: Mah Kraah
Edited by: Mah Kraah on 24/01/2006 23:37:48
what billion isk worth module have they fitted? how many month of skilltraing have they invested to get the perfect camouflage ?



WTB camouflage device t2 Rolling Eyes

Originally by: Mah Kraah

loggon traps and loggof is cheating and should be banned and i ask ccp to seek a way to enforce this rule.
( may give the ships a 2 minute onliningtime when logging back into game in space? time to restart the reactor and ship systems)



I have logs. I joined to fight 6-7 minutes after LD attacked our dread.
it is impossible to determine when togin trap and when random kill after login. for example two friends make logon and kill someone in 5 minutes after login, is it logintrap ? need to ban them ?


Originally by: Mah Kraah

so RAT ppl what would u think after all ur afford to set up that trap , logging back in and all those neat targets would just dissapear?? same rights for everyone.


Almost all our enemies usually do it if they have not threefold benefits in number.
And what we must to do ? leave eve ?

Originally by: Mah Kraah

there is no way to hide ur presence in a solar system due to the jumpgate system. no matter how u cloak ur ship, no matter if u shut down ur systems and hide behind the metallic mass of tritanium asterides, the jumpgate register ur ship when u pass through the gate and it will notice that ur ship have not used another jumpg8 to leave again.
ur ship is listed as present in local and this information can be automaticly distibuted to everyone who enter system. to solve the need to hide ships from local u could remove the shipidentification and networking abilitys from 0.0 jumpgates. this would not count for jumpdrive ships ! technicaly they could enter a system unregistered anyway. if the identifcation and networking abilitys are removed for 0.0 gates, only those ppl who talk in local would be listed, due to the fact that they have to log into the com network. on the otherside , those who hide would also see no local chat and the ppl comunicate there, they are not logged into the comsystem. this might be a solution that serves both partys interest, the ones who like to hide and the ones who dont whant cheating and abusing of mechanics


I think it will give too many advantages to carebears who can only blob and gank
ugh
may be camouflage skills will be best sulution




j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.01.25 01:38:00 - [225]
 

"Same end result, different method. Wah wah wah. Both could have been prevented. But how?!?! Check the map for jump gate usage. If 20+ people have sent the gate count on the map lists, for the hour, oddly over the rest of the gates around it then that high traffic region should have been avoided alltogether in the first place."

Logging on and off in system doesn't affect the gate use counter because the pilots don't use gates to enter/leave the system in question.

You have chance to spot a moving force on the map using various map filters, yes. You can't spot on the map something that is not in game, though. Which is the basic difference between the log on traps, and other tactics... and the very thing people object to.

Keep your violin and keep practicing. :s

Adam C
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.01.25 02:02:00 - [226]
 



What happens if; multiple clients try to connect at the same system, at the same time?

Does it effect the system enviroment, for connected clients?

Is there a difference in say 10 clients connecting on the same system as apposed to 200 clients?




MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2006.01.25 02:41:00 - [227]
 

People who use logon/logoff tactics are the real losers in this game. Period.


Malka Badi'a
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.01.25 02:47:00 - [228]
 

Quote:
People who use logon/logoff tactics are the real losers in this game. Period.
It if lets us win does that make us winnars?

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.01.25 03:19:00 - [229]
 

"It if lets us win does that make us winnars?"

Not really, since resorting to it is basically admitting "i suck at EVE and this is the only way i can score some kills"...

Malka Badi'a
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.01.25 03:22:00 - [230]
 

Originally by: j0sephine
Not really, since resorting to it is basically admitting "i suck at EVE and this is the only way i can score some kills"...
That's as much as you can come up with? Someone finds a way to easily kill people and uses it commonly. The tactic ends up working well enough that not too much effort is put into it but the job still gets accomplished. Your great idea is to insult the people smart enough to hack (in the old-school sense) the mechanics enough to know how to bend that limitation?

Gate sniping in a tempest is a peice of cake. They must suck at EVE too? Or is the ability to kill your enemy regardless of tactic used a show of victory? If and when it ever changes that victory actually equals failure, be let me know. Until then.. no making fun of my fiddle Sad

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.01.25 04:01:00 - [231]
 

"That's as much as you can come up with?"

That's as much as i need to come up with...


"Your great idea is to insult the people smart enough to hack (in the old-school sense) the mechanics enough to know how to bend that limitation?"

It's truth, not insult -- note how every single argument in this thread pro logon traps boiled down to "omg i can't ambush people with enough numbers to actually beat them while staying in game so i have no choice waaah". Meaning that yes, if people resort to it, they do it because they themselves recognize they'd fail to win without this crutch.

And "smart enough"? Let's not kid here, logging out / logging in to escape death and/or to gank is the most basic "tactics" people come up with when they just can't cut it within game mechanics. Which is the very reason why it's penalized in some way in about every single MMO out there. -.o


"Gate sniping in a tempest is a peice of cake. They must suck at EVE too?"

No, because you're mixing two different things -- gate snipers don't need to meta-game to get their kills. They can do it just fine while staying within game world.

(the ease of tactics has very little to do with the subject)


"Or is the ability to kill your enemy regardless of tactic used a show of victory?"

If you find yourself losing chess match against someone (competing through in-game means), in frustration grab the board and hit them over the head with it (out of game means) ... did you win that match? Nope. You merely admitted you're a lousy player that couldn't stand idea of losing, to boot.

It's the same thing. All tactics are fine as long as they are part of game. As it happens, staying in some sort of extra dimension where you cannot be detected is not part of it.

Malka Badi'a
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.01.25 04:10:00 - [232]
 

Originally by: j0sephine
That's as much as i need to come up with...
Swing and a miss. Wrong.
Quote:
It's truth, not insult -- note how every single argument in this thread pro logon traps boiled down to "omg i can't ambush people with enough numbers to actually beat them while staying in game so i have no choice waaah". Meaning that yes, if people resort to it, they do it because they themselves recognize they'd fail to win without this crutch.
A crutch? I'll remember that next time I ECM someone. It's such a simple, basic tactic that can be unavoidable sometimes without ever needing good gunnery or tanking skills.
Quote:
And "smart enough"? Let's not kid here, logging out / logging in to escape death and/or to gank is the most basic "tactics" people come up with when they just can't cut it within game mechanics. Which is the very reason why it's penalized in some way in about every single MMO out there.
You can't seriously be comparing EVE's PvP system to other MMO's. A game mechanic is a game mechanic. If the dev's don't want it used they will disable it's ability or include a function to disallow it (relogin timer for instance). Until then, bash it all you want. It works, and that is what matters when the bodies are counted.
Quote:
No, because you're mixing two different things -- gate snipers don't need to meta-game to get their kills. They can do it just fine while staying within game world.
Same simplicity. Same mind numbing ease of use. Both are actions that have not yet been programmed into unfunctionality.
Quote:
If you find yourself losing chess match against someone (competing through in-game means), in frustration grab the board and hit them over the head with it (out of game means) ... did you win that match? Nope. You merely admitted you're a lousy player that couldn't stand idea of losing, to boot.
At least they died from the Checker board impact YARRRR!!
Quote:
It's the same thing. All tactics are fine as long as they are part of game. As it happens, staying in some sort of extra dimension where you cannot be detected is not part of it.
Well then. Let's ban teamspeak, vent, the character manager sheet, EVE Stuffit, and the forums. None of those are in-game, in fact all of them are out of the game enviroment yet provide a wealth of information, tactics, and capability.

Your counterarguments are nothing more than "noob, fight me 1v1", to which I respond "Why when I can already kill you this way?".

Amerame
Kernel of War
Posted - 2006.01.25 04:38:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: j0sephine

It's the same thing. All tactics are fine as long as they are part of game. As it happens, staying in some sort of extra dimension where you cannot be detected is not part of it.


You don't make the rules of Eve, devs do, and they OKed officialy logging on and getting straight away to combat. I don't think the FIDE made killing your opponent with the chessboard an ok tactic to win a chess game.

That said there had been so many problems with logging in / off since Eve was released that should make you wonder if everything would not have been much easier and cleaner if ships had been persistant from the beginning. Personnaly I still don't understand why logging off should give my character abilities he does not have while I'm logged on ? Why should my ship appear on scanner and local if he's completely still and inactive for over 2 minutes in a safe spot and that he would not be that vulnerable if I had logged off ?

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.01.25 04:48:00 - [234]
 

"Swing and a miss. Wrong."

Given how it makes you put time into justifying how it's not really different from anythiing else and not a sign of skill shortage at all? I think it actually hit right where it hurts ^^


"A crutch? I'll remember that next time I ECM someone."

You still keep bringing in-game tactics as analogy to something which is not... it does not work. Apples, oranges and all that jazz.


"You can't seriously be comparing EVE's PvP system to other MMO's."

It's just one more computer game where the players compete versus one another. Every game allows you to start / quit playing at some point, and all of them disapprove using that ability to avoid in-game mechanics. EVE does it with its aggression timer and the log in warp system, other games might do it different. Doesn't change the basic notion behind these systems.


"If the dev's don't want it used they will disable it's ability or include a function to disallow it (relogin timer for instance)."

You had a dev address this issue in this very thread, and openly admit that as much as they'd like to, they can't find a good solution for doing it without penalizing regular players. If you don't take devs' own words they don't want people use it as a proof they indeed don't want people use it... then i reckon nothing can convince you.


"Until then, bash it all you want. It works, and that is what matters when the bodies are counted."

Oh and i'll gladly do, thank you ^^ and as far as "what matters" go -- body coount is just small part of it. In the game where the only way to actually crush the enemy is to broke their spirit, playing in the "we suck lol" manner simply won't work in that regard. You'll just make your enemy laugh at you, ridicule you and go have fun with opponents that actually know how to play the game not the log on button. Way to "win" indeed -.o


"Well then. Let's ban teamspeak, vent, the character manager sheet, EVE Stuffit, and the forums. None of those are in-game, in fact all of them are out of the game enviroment yet provide a wealth of information, tactics, and capability."

You almost have a point with the speech programs. Almost, because unlike the log on tactics these programs enhance what's already possible -- communication. With log on / log off on the other hand you create ability which is not intended as part of game, i.e. being able to sit 100% safe and undetectable in the same system the enemy might be in.


"Your counterarguments are nothing more than "noob, fight me 1v1", to which I respond "Why when I can already kill you this way?"."

And you are still failing to recognize the difference between in-game (1v1) and outside of it. But i guess it cannot be helped...

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.01.25 04:52:00 - [235]
 

Edited by: j0sephine on 25/01/2006 04:54:36

"You don't make the rules of Eve, devs do, and they OKed officialy logging on and getting straight away to combat."

Aye, that's why they put the aggession timer and the log in warp into game. To allow the log on traps.

(and speaking of devs okay'ing, they're also on the record stating it's the lamest way to play possible. Worth remembering as much as the "it's allowed to use it" part)


"I don't think the FIDE made killing your opponent with the chessboard an ok tactic to win a chess game."

Am fairly sure it's not specifically forbidden. Which, given the way this thread been running, surely means it's perfectly good way to win the match..? :s

Malka Badi'a
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.01.25 04:56:00 - [236]
 

Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 25/01/2006 05:17:11
Originally by: j0sephine
Paraphrased:Wah.
I'm sorry you disagree with us. When the devs remove the feature, it will stop. When the tactic stops working, we will stop. Until then, complain, moan, and belittle as you wish. When a dev looks at me and says, "stop.", I'll stop. Nothing you say will not stop it from being used until one of those conditions are met because we are looking to kill you, and we didn't say fair. So far the feature isn't removed, the bodycount is rising (that is war after all, winning right?), and a Dev has not said Stop. In fact, they even stopped calling it a reportable exploit.

Back to the fiddle.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.01.25 05:02:00 - [237]
 

That was a nice log off. Guess it means you "won" ^^

Malka Badi'a
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.01.25 05:18:00 - [238]
 

Originally by: j0sephine
That was a nice log off. Guess it means you "won" ^^
If I have a killmail of your ship, and possibly even your corpse, because of that logoff... then yes. I won.

nightjackel
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.01.25 05:58:00 - [239]
 

My personal view of log in traps are just a work around from the fact that there is a local chat. When you jump into a system you know 1) how many are in that system 2) Know if they are dangerous to you. In eve there is no practical way of suprising your target or out smarting your target ( flanking ) due to local chat. The work around of this is logging off. If CCP would remove local chat (make it like alliance or noob corp chat) you don't show up unless you chat in that channel. This would allow TRUE tactic planning. The biggest blob wouldn't always win if you plan your attack right. Lets say you have a scout ( the purpose of covert-ops , to be able to get in to unfriendly territory unseen . The pilot can get needed info of operations in a said system and plan accordingly. Instead of this boring blob wars that prove nothing other then " We have more ships then you". If a battle is going badly you can bring reinforcements , without your enemy knowing about it "noob alts scouting" surrounding systems. Now I have no set view on log out traps one way or the other, I see both sides. But to be honest space is not safe (well 0.0 isn't) so plan accordingly.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.01.25 06:07:00 - [240]
 

"If CCP would remove local chat (..) This would allow TRUE tactic planning. The biggest blob wouldn't always win if you plan your attack right. (..) Instead of this boring blob wars that prove nothing other then " We have more ships then you". If a battle is going badly you can bring reinforcements , without your enemy knowing about it"

Yes, the inability to see people through local would end the blob wars... by allowing people to bring more ships than enemy, unspotted.

Rather self-contradictory, isn't it :/


Pages: first : previous : ... 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 ... : last (14)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only