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Zbop
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.02.26 11:42:00 - [61]
 

I don't think that we should have single person owned POS. But there should be the gang sized one, that say 5 - 10 players could by and maintain, then have the small corp. sized one where say 20 players could maintain it.

I think the smaller of these two POS should have refining capabilities, repair and refitting facilities, but instead of having to pay ISK to get your ship fixed you'll have to provide the repair facility with X type of mineral that the repair unit can store for repair uses only. Then have a maintenance cost, like on the larger POS station but at a level that a small group could handle. Defense systems are a must as well as a way to avoid scanners and probes (At an additional upkeep cost.) Make it large enough to dock a few frigates, 1-2 cruisers, and hauler or BC. The DEV's can decide on how much cargo space it should have.

On the small corp. sized POS I think allowing a basic clone facility would be fine, as well as the above mentioned repair, refit, and refining capabilities. Have the hanger large enough to handle a few battle ships as this is supposed to be for a small corp. Again it should have upkeep cost, but within the capabilities for say a corp. of 20 to be able to handle.

As for construction I like the 'roid' idea. You take a special riod hauler and find a riod above x size and start 'mining' it. When you drain it, instead of having the ore you get a 'hollow' roid in your cargo hold, and the roid you were 'mining' pops normally. You then can take this hollow roid and set it up with the anchoring skill.

I don't think these small stations should be allowed in 0.8 space, but they should be allowed anywhere else, also I do agree there should be a limit of how many can be in system. Obviously this can lead to war between small corps as they fight over the best systems and the mining rights, trying to starve out the other.

I think it would be something good for the game.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2006.02.26 12:31:00 - [62]
 

First, Teronolus, thank you for the concept, I promise I will spank Adrastos for posting a stupid oneLaughing.

And, Zbop. Yes, most of us agreed that the structure should be nothing like the POS. It will be a single, self-contained, habitat. On the other hand, we can expand on your idea of POS like structure/w cloning vats and stuff, by allowing corporations and rich players to expand the habitat construction. Allow them to interconect and create different facilities. But, primary goal is to allow, somehow, a single player, or a small band of pirates/mission runners, etc, own a space structure where the EVE imerssion can be even deeper.

Nicodei
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.02.27 04:20:00 - [63]
 

Hello all,

I had a few more ideas for the SPOS (Single Player-Owned Station). I was thinking of calling it a Sanctum, as it is a hideaway where a person can run and refit/reload.

One option is to make it cost Loyalty Points, thus ensuring the player makes a concentrated effort to accomplish missions for the system while he has the station. At about 10k LPs, the agent will give you an offer for a plot in the system where you can build your station, and it will require 1k LPs per week/month/etc of operation else it gets towed back to the agent's station. This will also ensure that there can be no more stations in a system than CCP wants, although 0.0 would have no limits unless it was NPC controlled.

Another option is to make it a module that can fit in a decently-sized ship. I was thinking of something like a Cosmic Anchor, which turns the BC/BS/Dread/etc into a SPOS. You could have optional components which go with it, like a Refinery or Refitting module in the lows or a Scanner or Market Escrow module in the mids. While anchored, the ship would not be able to move, but the modules would be unusable while the ship was active.

This would allow for a new skill of Spaceship Anchoring, requiring Anchoring 3 and <ship type> 5. I thought that the setup time would take about 3 hours (requiring protection in low-sec), but that the skill could reduce that by 10% per level.

You guys like these ideas, or do they need to go back to the drawing board? I welcome any CONSTRUCTIVE critcism.

Sam Albertek
Posted - 2006.02.27 08:24:00 - [64]
 

I dont think the thingy should be a hollow asteroid, it should be like those cargo bays we see on missions, and the pressure silos and stuff.

the first thing you would hafta get was something like a mini control tower, or a control unit, or something, that costs a lot less than a regular control tower (i mean a lot). it also has a lot less PG and stuff.

the control unit (or central unit, or whatever) has 4 sides where things can attach.

after the control unit, you get a docking pad, and a ship storage unit (attaches to the docking pad), and you can dock there and hold a few ships.

then you can get mounted guns, which attach to your CU, and warehouses, which add item storage and can link to each other, and pressure silos, which can hold a lot of ore, and slowly reprocesses it. a ship can also load into a silo/warehosue in flight if you get an unloading array, which attaches to a silo or warehouse. that way small corps can have small bases to do some operations from until they can get a station.

Adrastos Volos
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.02.27 15:48:00 - [65]
 

Very kewl concept drawing Teronolus. It is nice to see ideas put into visual images of what people want. It makes them seem more tangible and real. I really hope CCP utilizes the single player owned structure idea.

And I am sorry, but I couldn't resist a chance at busting Jinx's chops Very Happy

Originally by: Jinx Barker
First, Teronolus, thank you for the concept, I promise I will spank Adrastos for posting a stupid oneLaughing.


Spank me? Shocked

"Thank you sir may I have another.."

Laughing

cutelittlepuppy
Posted - 2006.02.27 16:08:00 - [66]
 

srry all just saw this after makin my own topic
my ideas:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=300145&page=1

honestly did not c this one

i have red thru all the ideas they all good

Teronolus
Cygnus Alpha Syndicate
Thundering Mantis
Posted - 2006.02.27 18:39:00 - [67]
 

Paint ftw.

Anyways, it should have two main options: a single player owned structure (small roid with only a small capacity and defense abilities) or a small corp's/group's structure (the larger version).

The idea of requiring loyalty points I think would be good for setting one up but with a few missions you have to do each week to keep the clampers away as the loyalty point system would be a little hard to impliment. However, this should only apply to high-sec. Low-sec should be open game for these things and this would still not cause 'teh_lagz' because using my deadspace idea, you would only have 5 odd in a system max.

Wait, who likes my deadspace idea? Very Happy

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2006.02.27 19:19:00 - [68]
 

Personally I would lean torward the idea to use comodities and materials in order to support the habitat, with initial payment to the Faction in whose territory one is being build/installed. Simply because, unlike me, for example not everyone can/able to run missions in earnest.

Also, the Size thing is tricky, it should be large enough to allow a single player ample storage, where he or she does not need to go to the station, but once a week, lets say, and not too large to allow obsene ammounts of storage. Also, deffences on a personal units should be adequate to fend off at least 3 enemy battleships with ease. Habs should serve as a protection of sorts, otherwise they are just decorative.

On a larger structures, for a small corp use I would go with deffences which are capable of fending off 6+ Battleships and they should cost accordingly more/and have a higher degree of maintenence.

Also, one og the sicking points for many is the placement of the habs. I believe it is imperative that thy be allowed anywhere with the exception of .9-1.0 systems.

The numbers, to be honest, I am not sure about. Perhaps 5 is a bit low, but I would venture CCp can work out exactly the information on the system load and so forth and will come up with suitable number/per system ratio.

Adrastos Volos
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.02.27 21:36:00 - [69]
 

I am not sure what a good solution would be for the location of the private structures.

What if it is something that does not have to show up on the sector info? It is like a far off place inside a sector. Only the owner knows the location and can give it out like a BM. It has defensive capabilities like Jinx suggested. Is that a viable way to have several inside 1 sector but not generate lag?

I am not sure about the deadspace idea because it gives a single spot that many can be gathered at. I like the idea of one lone structure in the middle of nowhere... Very Happy

Teronolus
Cygnus Alpha Syndicate
Thundering Mantis
Posted - 2006.02.28 17:49:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Adrastos Volos

I am not sure about the deadspace idea because it gives a single spot that many can be gathered at. I like the idea of one lone structure in the middle of nowhere... Very Happy


Yhey, some one read it. I forgot to mention that only one can be placed per deadspace pocket.

Adrastos Volos
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.03.01 15:30:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Teronolus
Originally by: Adrastos Volos

I am not sure about the deadspace idea because it gives a single spot that many can be gathered at. I like the idea of one lone structure in the middle of nowhere... Very Happy


Yhey, some one read it. I forgot to mention that only one can be placed per deadspace pocket.


ahhh...

hmmm...maybe...do you expect only the owner of the habitat can activate the deadspace jump?

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2006.03.01 17:39:00 - [72]
 

Adrastos, what do you mean by sector Info? You mean like DS Becaons and Stations/Belts or something else.
I did mentione in one of my summaries that habs should not be shown as "warpable objects" like belts, staions, and standart gates.

However, one major point, so it wont be HAXORSPLOITOMFGUBERSAFESPOT situation, is to make sure that a persistent Covert Ops pilot can locate the habs using Scan probes. Anyone should be able to locate habs via scan probes, but they should not show up on overview as other celestial objects.

Adrastos Volos
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.03.01 18:23:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Jinx Barker
Adrastos, what do you mean by sector Info? You mean like DS Becaons and Stations/Belts or something else.
I did mentione in one of my summaries that habs should not be shown as "warpable objects" like belts, staions, and standart gates.

However, one major point, so it wont be HAXORSPLOITOMFGUBERSAFESPOT situation, is to make sure that a persistent Covert Ops pilot can locate the habs using Scan probes. Anyone should be able to locate habs via scan probes, but they should not show up on overview as other celestial objects.


That is what I meant, that they should not appear on the Overview as other celestial objects. I just didn't say it as nicely. Very Happy

Good point on the covert ops thing too.

Teronolus
Cygnus Alpha Syndicate
Thundering Mantis
Posted - 2006.03.01 20:38:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Adrastos Volos

hmmm...maybe...do you expect only the owner of the habitat can activate the deadspace jump?


Not neccessarily, anyone with a bm can.

Maybe the 'cloaking' is a little bit overpowered. However I think that normal scan probes can turn up only 'uncloaked' bases and 'cloaked' ones require a special probe that takes say... 2 hours to turn up info. This means that if some one wanted to rid you of your veld-bed, they would need a pretty good reason to be bothered.

Oh and they should be roids. Why? 1. It's practical. 2. It's cool. 3. YARR! YARRRR!!

Need I say more?

Matt Steel
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.03.10 06:07:00 - [75]
 

Forget about cloacking, not possible for sucha large structure, or if possible, it would consume so much energy to keep it turned on.

I am not sure about the impact on EVE (as someone mentioned the huge ammount of registered players who might build one) this would have, that's why i mentioned "small", for a single person or up to 4 or ten.

Another good option would be to set the 'roids as the smallest possible POS for a player, with medium sized POS (you have to buy the structures) and the normal POS we find on EVe right now (the small structures would be still be big in comparision).

Ideas like this and others give the devs ideas for future stuff to be added into the game and make it better and more enjoyable. So lets keep the ideas flowing!!

Merovingienne
Amarr
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2006.03.10 11:48:00 - [76]
 

Personal Hangar Array:-

1) Allows module fitting
2) Requires fuel and goods to maintain shields and cloak
3) Is deployed and anchored like any station equipment via hauler
4) Does have a reinforced mode like POS and requires clathrates
5) Uses cloaking for defense only, no turrets or launchers
6) Storage space and anchorage for ships
7) Auto cloaks when you leave and autodecloaks when you are inside, so it can be found. Means you will not hide inside it for long as it can be picked up on scanners when you are inside.

Darpz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.03.10 16:42:00 - [77]
 

love this idea, but it needs to be lowsec only to make sence. or if its allowed in highsec make it follow the same rules high sec POS now have to follow.

my thoughts would be to just have one have it cost about 500 Million or so fully equiped (comperable to a Large POS)

Maintence Bay Space of 4M m3 or so (enough for 3 Assembled BS and 10 or so cruisers and frigs, but capital ships should NOT be able to dock in one)
Hanger Bay Space of about 800K m3 (about one frieighter load worth)

Servises:
Refiting
Repair at the cost of fuel
Jump Clone instalation


make them inexpensive to run normally without a clock (about comperable to a Small POS), but if you want to install it in enemy territory and not have it found easily (my thoughts would be you would have to manually track it down to a location of .5AU before it comes up on scanner with the cloak on) it will need a cloak which take ALOT of fuel (twice that of a Large POS)

docking interface would be preferable also, not sure how hard it would be to do this, but it just makes them easier to use then the POS style interface.

Defence wise I would give it powergrid simlar to a Large POS but no shield so the guns can be targeted an destroyed (enough to repel small groups but a fleet would make short work of it). but the base itself since its in a roid would have ALOT of HP (2-3 Stations worth) so it would take a large fleet to take one down quickly or a dedicated force to kill it overtime

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2006.03.10 17:48:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Darpz
love this idea, but it needs to be lowsec only to make sence. or if its allowed in highsec make it follow the same rules high sec POS now have to follow.

my thoughts would be to just have one have it cost about 500 Million or so fully equiped (comperable to a Large POS)

Maintence Bay Space of 4M m3 or so (enough for 3 Assembled BS and 10 or so cruisers and frigs, but capital ships should NOT be able to dock in one)
Hanger Bay Space of about 800K m3 (about one frieighter load worth)

Servises:
Refiting
Repair at the cost of fuel
Jump Clone instalation


make them inexpensive to run normally without a clock (about comperable to a Small POS), but if you want to install it in enemy territory and not have it found easily (my thoughts would be you would have to manually track it down to a location of .5AU before it comes up on scanner with the cloak on) it will need a cloak which take ALOT of fuel (twice that of a Large POS)

docking interface would be preferable also, not sure how hard it would be to do this, but it just makes them easier to use then the POS style interface.

Defence wise I would give it powergrid simlar to a Large POS but no shield so the guns can be targeted an destroyed (enough to repel small groups but a fleet would make short work of it). but the base itself since its in a roid would have ALOT of HP (2-3 Stations worth) so it would take a large fleet to take one down quickly or a dedicated force to kill it overtime

Well, you see the whole idea is to allow "Single Player/Small Corp" owned structures. Which means that a Price tag of 500 Mil+J-Clones/with negative shield and so forth it won’t be practical. Also, it is important to keep in mind that structures like these must be accessible to a population in Empire as well as 0.0 and Lowe Security areas.

They are not meant to be a POS/or even close to POS. They are meant to repel few battleships and cruisers. No more than 10-15 ships in total. It is important not mix POS with its reinforced Shields and Outpost with its massive Economic power with a small structure designed to serve as a small base of operations. So, anything to do with Cloning/Jump Clones/medical/Insurance should definitely be excluded from these structures.

Also, I am have gone through a thread copied few posts and I will make another summary, I know most people don’t read entire threads, just go to the last page. And I really want this idea to work, so, anything I add will keep the discussion going and alive and visible.


Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2006.03.10 18:52:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Jinx Barker on 10/03/2006 18:57:32
[Summary PT-1]

1. Habitat/Structure can be anchored anywhere in space, in any sovereignty, with one exception, Empire. In Empire they could NOT be anchored in .9-1.0 systems. ] Others suggested that they should be placed in Dead Space Pockets Only.

2. Habitats should have High/Med/Low slot layout, like a ship, thus utilising internal PG/CPU to control the devices like guns, missile batteries and cloaking devices, etc.

3. They can be upgraded? By using finite and mineable materials. Perhaps even incorporate T2 components into it, or some sort of POS producible, to further support the expanding POS markets. Perhaps allow for PG/CPU upgrades. [See this thread for more details]

4. They should not be invulnerable to an attack. They should be susceptible to a conventional warfare tactics. Like battleships, cruisers and frigates. None of that siege crap.

5. They should be a legitimate war-target, if the owner is in a corporation at war.

6. They should be able to defend themselves, but cannot go into a “reinforced” mode or anything like that.Others argue that they should be able to go into reinforced mode & require Calthrates to sustain.

7. They have to be locatable via scan-probing and so forth. But should not show up as a warpable object in the scanner. Unless, the cloaking device is malfunctioning – then the habitat can become a “subspace phenomena” and can be warped to. [See this thread for more details]

8. They should also have some sort of functionality other than a “home in space”. Perhaps with adequate upgrades (see #3) they can have small refining and reprocessing and even repair facility. They could become permanent, but then they would be susceptible to attacks by other players if in 0.0 or low security areas, as well as war target in Empire. However, in Alliance controled territories they as good as indestructible, since they are, theoretically, under the protection of the alliance force.

9. Habitat should have a limited amount of storage Space. Some people suggested a 5,000m/3 for a small one, and up to 50,000m/3 for a large unit. Thus, they should vary by size and accommodate appropriate vessels accordingly.However, upon further discussion it seems that the above numbers are rather limited and should be looked at. After scanning through some threads it would appear that most people prefer 1 Mill/m3 for a Small one, and up to 5-7 Mill/m3 for a "Large" Habitat. [See this thread for more details]

10. Habitats can be “designed” to accommodate appropriate uses, or uses according to wishes of their designer. They can vary in appearance, fairly easy to pull off with the game like EVE, and thus have unique qualities accorded to them by a designer: Hollowed out Asteroids, Discarded Spaceship hulks, things used in construction of it like depleted station batteries and what not. Basically make them look like Minmatar ships (my apologies to Minmatar, I couldn’t help myself). [green]Some suggested that the construction of the habitat or "Veld Base" can be done in stages, where spcial ship-type, perhaps, can be used, and a modable BPO can be relased and "tweaked" by those who deisre to imporve on the "standart" design.]

At some point it would be possible to develop a profession out of it. A habitat designer/builder. Perhaps all corps that choose to, can specialise in such endeavours, to the point of patenting their design via blueprint copies. We all know that most efficient design vs. use info will spread quickly. Perhaps create special Habitat Construction Modules for POS owners who can then build them and sell them to the rest of us. At the same time it might create a market for a faction owned POS that can be rented for the design/build purposes by those who do not have access to a POS.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2006.03.10 18:53:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Jinx Barker on 10/03/2006 18:58:38
Summary PT-2
11. One should be able to secure the habitat from entry by other players. Perhaps with specifically set password one can dock, as can his friends. At the same time, and I just thought of it, when they are destroyed by an adversary they should drop some portion of the loot currently held within them. Just like when the ship is destroyed it drops a can with stuff. Also a great new field for legitimate corporate spies and thieves to foray their strengths.

12. Some people want them to use fuel to power up the components or keep the battery charged or something. Others want the habitats not use any fuel – unless they are engaged in combat. Fuel involved, or rather according to posts, the desired fuel ranges from POS standart isotopes and caltrates, to regular maintenance of the Habitat with Consumer Products and common minerals. This is a pretty wide-ranging debate.

Further info on Ownership and Transfer Logistics:

99% so far agreed that limiting number of habitats per system can be another great thing to do. It will ferment discontent and wars, since people would want a nice spot. It will also support real Estate trade, where you can actually sell a Habitat to another player. Legitimate Real-Estate trading can be performed via easily implemented voucher system. Lets say upon building a habitat you will have an ownership voucher, like a deed, something that would look very similar to Pirate Ship Logs. There will be information regarding the Habitat, all its stats, location, security level of the system, etc.

At the same time, if the voucher is lost (if the owner carried the voucher in his cargohold and was blown up) there are 2 consequences:

1)If voucher is destroyed, the habitat automatically self-destructs
OR
2)If the voucher is picked up by a new player/or the agressor/whoever finds the can, he automatically becomes an owner of the habitat.

In second case, the Habitat retains its password/security until a “new owner arrives”. Upon his attempt to dock, he must have the voucher in cargohold, he will be given an opportunity to change the password. Also, even though previous security measure were still in effect, including password, the former owner is still locked out of the habitat. It will prevent disgruntled victims from docking with their former property and cleaning it out or self-destructing it.

And finally, having a voucher in the cargohold will allow the entrance into the Habitat password free. This could be useful in case of forgotten passwords - and it will expose vouchers to the possibility of being lost if you are attacked on the way.

They could also be placed in the Escrow - where potential buyer can see the habitat information and gauge for himself if he wants to buy it. Thus making vouchers readable, but not useful if they are in Escrow, at least not until they are claimed and ownership is transferred. Again, Voucher in Cargohold=Password free entry will mean that the seller doesn’t have to do anything as far as security is concerned. A fact that the voucher is no longer in his possession automatically revokes his ownership while retaining habitat as secure for a new owner.

In order to prevent Scams on Escrow, where an "Empty" voucher can be sold - in case habitat is no longer there, if it blew up or was destroyed or what not - the voucher would destroy itself as well. Thus two would be linked, if one goes so does the other. No way to scam people with "fake" vouchers.

This will make peeps keep vouchers/deeds/titles as safe as their own BPOs.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2006.03.10 18:55:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Jinx Barker on 10/03/2006 19:36:05
Summary PT-3

Habitat Placement & Construction Thoughts:
Most everyone agreed that Habitats or "veld Bases" must be limited in numbers per-system. There is a debate, however, as to a Security Rating of a system where Habs should be allowed. After some searching, it looks like roughtly 15% want them to be an Exclusivly Low Security & 0.0 feature. Another group, roughly 60%, myself included, argues for a placement of habitats in ranges of 0.0 to .8, where Noob & 9.0-1.0 Empire systems are Excluded, and the reast argues to place them anywhere, in any security, w/o any restrictions..

On a System Security Issue, I would still go with the idea that even carebears in Empire must be allowed to have their rocks! However, I do believe that placing them in above .8 systems will cause undue hardship on the servers.

On number of Habs per system, here is a suggestion. lets take POS as an example. In theory, a POS can be anchored at ALL of the Moons orbiting the star in the system. So, if there are 20 Moons, then 20 POS' can be erected. As a starting premise lets presume that the number of habitats can be, should be, limited to the number of moons in the system. If CCP has created POS syetm, and allows them to be anchored at moons, we can safely assume that if Habitat number is limited to number of moons in the system - the lag issue should not arise.

Furthermore, the habitats ought to be RESTRICTED from being anchored near moons. Thats correct, I think the restriction is good, it will allow a proper POS development that would be un-hindered by Habitat expantion. The only reason we are talking about moons is to shake down a minimum number of "Veld Bases"/Habitats per system.

Habitats/"Veld Base" Platforms, once build, will be taken out to the specific location and launched, very similar to how outposts building is designed. Once the Platform is Launched, the owner of it shall hit an "Assemble" button or menu, and the process of construction will begin. Details can be worked out later.


And, finally, a Link to Hab Concept

Chukk Solo
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.03.12 07:01:00 - [82]
 

How Stupid. If this did come into the game, it should be able to be shot at in any system without concord coming to get you. hollow asteroid, mine it to death, what ever. But I would personnally hunt these and destroy them all. This is one of the most stupid things i have read on here today.

Drizit
Amarr
Posted - 2006.03.12 12:01:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Drizit on 12/03/2006 12:05:18
So far Chukk, you are in a minority. Most people support the idea of a POS like this.

Firstly, it allows players to get the feel of owning and maintaining a POS before they go into 0.0 and take on a big project like the current moon POS.

Secondly, it creates a home for those who would otherwise wander aimlessly around Empire looking for things to do. Giving them a responsibility to maintain a POS would take up their time and give them something to do.

Finally, Why should only players who have played Eve for eons be the only ones to have their own POS? I don't see anyone being stuck in a noob frigate until they get into 0.0 so they can own a better frigate or even a cruiser.

I like the idea of the faction support and defence unless a corp war is declared. If it happens, go ahead and hunt them and lose you ship every time to the faction support ships before you've even scratched it. The idea of having this support from the faction is so that players like you don't go around griefing lower skilled players by destroying what they've worked hard to get.

It's not as if they are invulnerable or can't be lost to other players. This is just like a POS in 0.0 that can be conquered but unlike a POS in 0.0, it can also be taken from the owner simply by popping their ship and taking the deed so in effect, it's less secure than a 0.0 POS. It's not like the carebears are being handed anything on a plate and just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it won't be considered by the devs.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2006.03.12 12:59:00 - [84]
 

Also, please remember that they are "Single Player/Small Corp" Owned Structures. This means that any CONCERTED effort will take this base out.

Perhaps you missed massive pre-requsites of owning one?
1)Must be destructible
2)Must use (some sort of fuel, must not be "Maint. free")
3)Should fall easily to 4-5 Battleships.
etcetera, etcetera....

Main idea behind the base like this is to enrich the player enviroment across the board. I am pushing it because I can finally build something solid in 0.0 and .1 systems. And, because I hate the way POS system is currently setup, So when I am there, which, I often am, I have a place to go to. Also, I wish, eventually, push for conversion of ALL POS into a single outpost like structure. Where all the "devices" we anchor outside the tower are going to be contained within one single object.

However, I feel it is extremly important to allow players in Empire expirience it as well. We have allot of toys in 0.0 and low security systems, many of them are not available to players in Empire. They should get into it as well.

Also, it will create an economic boom, a push for individual ownership of space, not just your ship. Empire control ill become more vital, territory concerns will arise, in other words more big guns!!! More bodies! More carnage!

Plekto
Freedom United Consolidations - Inter Terrestrial
United For 0rder
Posted - 2006.03.12 20:14:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Plekto on 12/03/2006 20:38:51
I want.

Needs to be like a small Outpost of sorts.
- 2-3 slots for upgrades of your choice. Medical is a must.
- Holds two ships. No more, no less. Possible use of one of the 2-3 upgrades would allow another ship to be docked.
- High maintainence costs, like a med or large tower. Note, while this seems small, to a single player, it's a huge investment per week.
- No defensive capability. Instead of shields, it has a cloak. Absoluetly probe-proof. Must be within a very short distance, like 15-20km to see it. If your power levels drop down too low/you don't maintian it, it merely looses the cloak - and like an abandoned shell on the beach, some other creature will surely find it and move in. As long as the cloak is up, it should be secure for months at a time.

Note - if you are near it and they see you, warping to you will show it up - so when you leave and go to it are critical. Say when you get near it, the cloak drops and for the time it takes for you to go 15km and dock, it's visible for 100km, like any other object.

- It's a place to dock and clone and so on. Cargo consists of one anchoring spot capable of fitting a station container(getting it there or building it on-site are your problems, of course).
- One least thing - it needs a passive scanner. You need to know when ships are nearby before you undock, if the cloak functions like I envision(above).

But yes - it is exactly what would happen in RL. Find a rock - make a home. Hide it.


Note - this also would give rise to a new class of pirates! The idea of an asteriod field or complex with a bunch of pirates coming from their holes - what's not to like? It also would possibly elliminate station-camping. You just have some of your corp members dock at their outposts and hide there until it cools down. Pricey, but worth it in 0.0.

edit:
The biggest problem wwith the idea so far is that they are easy to find. Especially if there are deeds of sorts, they need to be virtually in their own pocket of sub-space or something. You should be able to log off in one and a week later log back in and everything's still there.

The tradeoff would be that there's no password, no defenses, no ANYTHING. You have an energy-gobbling cloak that requires a few dozen mil a week in materials to keep running(yes, that much) and maybe a two week power reserve if filled up completely.
Thought - perhaps two cloaking modes, then.
- Power-down mode. Totally invisible except for visually to ships within a very very close radius. No cloak, either. Nothing works, either.
Pro: Essentially unfindable. Uses no reserves, or very little.
Con: You must activate a clone to do so($ISK). While it's shut off, and you are logged off, you are in stasis. Even your other characters can't find it, it's so "off the map". It's literally just another huge asteriod out in the middle of space. Implants "pop" as well in this mode, like any clone-jump.
The idea here is to allow players to take a few weeks or months off and have it there when they come back. But nothing works.
- Defense mode - cloak engaged, functions like a huge Covert Ops of sorts. Gobbles energy at a silly rate, requiring 1-2 mil a day(!) to feed. Everything works, including market access, cloning, or whatevr else you want. For a single player, half of their life will be spent paying for fuel for the thing. Fair enough.

Lochmar Fiendhiem
Caldari
International Multi-Player Consortium
Posted - 2006.03.13 06:06:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Lochmar Fiendhiem on 13/03/2006 06:10:26
Maybe take it another way, first you need a new class of ship, there would have to be 3 sizes, small medium and large based on the size outpost you want, flying these would be based off the skills trained.

Now this ship is essentially a massive deep core strip miner (make this skill a pre req for the ship skill), with an engine attached. You would fly this ship to a belt, based on the size of this ship you would pick a roid of xx quantity/mass of whatever type. of your ship. You could then fly the ship to a safe spot, or where ever and anchor the ship itself, at which point the engine is removed and used as a powercore for the strip miner.

Based on skill level and size of the roid, it would take xx days to complete the hollowing process. The minerals would have to be used for interior construction, and therefore cannot be reused.

Once the roid is hollow you can set up a password and use it just like a regular secure can, or ship maintenance bay, but you can dock there as well (docking would depend on your ship size and roid size) refitting and repairs can also be done, but repairing requires raw minerals and trade goods to complete.

Since the outpost was built using a ship carcass and a roid, cap boosters would work for power, maybe even use solar collectors as well.

Have some form of shield around it, nothing else can be anchored around the outpost other then secure cans (not within say 40 or 50km).

Anchoring the roid to the ship could take 20-30min and anchoring the ship in space could take several hours. To use the hollowing process you would need to have both a tractor beam and a strip miner mounted on the ship (perhaps also have the hollowing process time based on the strip miner used). Neither of these would be able to be gotten back as they are combined and used together to hollow the roid out.

Since the ships engine is consumed in the process of making it inhabitable, the outpost can not move, however make it unanchorable and able to use a cynosural field so that a corp would be able to produce these to order and then deliver them anywhere. Or an attack force can jump an outpost into a system that is loaded with ammo and ships for prolonged seiges.

The armor and structure could depend on the type of roid used, the more outposts made from rarer ores would be much more durable, but be considerably slower to hollow,(maybe make the strip miner mine its regular ammount times some arbitrary number based on strip miner skill and the level of skill
for the ship being used).

Make the station have fittings for mounting defenses, again based on the number of fittings for each ship of varying size. These could be used just like regular modules, but you are unable to fit active modules other then weapons, which could be set to attack similiar to a pos (limited the same way like in highsec as well). The space inside these roids would be based on the size of the roid to begin with. All this would have to be calculated when the hollowing process begins. maybe have "begin making hollow" as a right-click option on the ship, and from there it would give you a window much like the science and industry tab, (possibly even putting it in the science and industry tab), this could show you what is required to complete the process, how long to anchor, and how long till the hollowing process is done. This would require three manual steps; anchoring, hollowing, "installing" ship (making the ship part of the roid).

The process of building the outpost would consume the ship, so thjat would create an isk sink, along with the stripminers. No reinforced mode - would require too advanced and massive electronics systems.




Thaylon Sen
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.03.18 04:06:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Thaylon Sen on 18/03/2006 04:06:28

Yes please Mr Oveur sir, Lord of all EVE that you are. Smile

Angelic Resolution
The Arcanum
Posted - 2006.03.18 06:24:00 - [88]
 

Be just like the Ferengi but with roids :D


signed! Tactical roid base - Red alert, BS spawn!

Nicodei
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.03.18 06:48:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Lochmar Fiendhiem
Edited by: Lochmar Fiendhiem on 13/03/2006 06:10:26
Maybe take it another way, first you need a new class of ship, there would have to be 3 sizes, small medium and large based on the size outpost you want, flying these would be based off the skills trained.

Now this ship is essentially a massive deep core strip miner (make this skill a pre req for the ship skill), with an engine attached. You would fly this ship to a belt, based on the size of this ship you would pick a roid of xx quantity/mass of whatever type. of your ship. You could then fly the ship to a safe spot, or where ever and anchor the ship itself, at which point the engine is removed and used as a powercore for the strip miner.

Based on skill level and size of the roid, it would take xx days to complete the hollowing process. The minerals would have to be used for interior construction, and therefore cannot be reused.
-snip-



One of the big issues with this idea is that the bases will only be able to be used in asteroid belts. The belts are already too full of cans. If we could move the asteroid, this would make things easier, as I envision these outposts to be somewhere hidden (without using probes and such) and requiring a good bit of work to find.

Another issue is that the time is way too long. What happens if another miner starts mining the roid you're hollowing, or rats destroy the ship in the xx days it takes to hollow the roid? I could see maybe requiring 5 hours, but that long is too much for an individual player.

My concept is this: Let's create modules for ships already in the game that convert them into the structure or back (yes, this ties in with my above post). All of these modules require a low slot and 200 CPU, but have other bonuses and requirements:

> Small Cosmic Anchor (requires 15 grid, adds 10k m3 to cargo space hold, requires 1 hour to set up)
> Medium Cosmic Anchor (requires 300 grid, adds 30k m3 to cargo hold, requires 3 hours to set up)
> Large Cosmic Anchor (requires 5k grid, adds 100k m3 to cargo hold, requires 5 hours to set up)

On top of these modules, there would also be modules for the Repair Bay (Low), the Refinery (Low), the Market/Escrow (Mid) and so forth. They could use Shield Boosters or Armor Reppers and weapons, but would otherwise be immobile.

Each player could have a number of sanctums equal to his rank in the Habitat Manager skill, and the Rapid Deployment skill would speed up the setup/take-down of the sanctum by something like 10% per level. Ships would be able to dock to the core ship, but could not enter. They would be protected by the shields of the ship, but not the armor or structure.

Due to the gravity wells, these structures would not be able to be set up within 20 km of an asteroid, or 200 km of a space station. They would require an agent to give you the deed to set up the station (for like 10k LPs), and would need Isotopes of the appropriate type for their race (enough to require effort to upkeep, but not enslave the owner).

This idea lets the designers use their pre-existing models with only a slight difference (such as some spiky bits and towers for Minmatar, some plexiglass shields for Gallente, etc) and does not introduce anything groundbreaking into the pre-existing universe.

I know you guys are itching for the hollowed-out asteroid, and it does have merit (I'd love to have an internal view of the cave), but this seems like the easiest way to accomplish the requirements with minimal work. The numbers above are estimates just to give an idea of the concept and workings.

Lochmar Fiendhiem
Caldari
International Multi-Player Consortium
Posted - 2006.03.18 09:09:00 - [90]
 

no not limited to belts. the roid would come from the belts. once it's anchored to the ship you would be free to fly whereever (plus the addition in mass). it would have to be anchored xxx distance from an object. It's someones choice if they want to put it in an asteroid belt or not.


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