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Taketa De
Gallente
Seneca Federation
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.01.13 14:06:00 - [1]
 

The complaints about drone AI and some of the habits of drones like mating are pretty regular on these boards. Personally I think a general "1 AI fit all situations" solution is unlikely to ever be near perfect. That is why I'd like to see a sepereate drone control panel that gives us more fine grained command ability over our little helpers.

There would be a basic side which would allow us to issue commands to each drone/drone group/all drones. These would be in a drop down box and might be as follows:

Default: Act the way drones always have in the past.

Attack and Return: Attack the target I set for you then return and orbit.

Attack closest threat to player: Attack the closest hostile that is attacking the player.

Attack closest threat to self: Attack the closest hostile that is attacking the drone.

Attack closest hostile to player: Like threat, but any red target is valid.

Attack closest hostile to self: Like threat, but any red target is valid.

Attack my targets in order: Attack the targets the player has locked (always the right most on the list). Drones will return and orbit if no more targets are available.

Attack my targets, closest to drone: Attack the targets the player has locked, always the one closest to the drone. Drones will return and orbit if no more targets are avialable.

Attack my targets, closest to me: Attack the targets the player has locked, always the one closest to the player. Drones will return and orbit if no more targets are avialable.

Kill all buildings: Taget and kill any building in the area.

These commands would activat as soon as the player gives the 'attack' command and deactivate if 'return and orbit' or 'return to dronebay' are given.

One can also set a default level which activates as soon as drones launch.

Then there should be a 'abondon drone' button which will server control of the drone and allow the player to launch new ones. Especially in emergency situations or situations where drones refuse to return or are too far away to retrun quickly this could be a lifesaver.

It would also be good if we could restablish control of drones we abondoned in space (from logoff or abandon button) at range if we have less then 5 controlled drones out. Flying with a domi 35km to your drones because one disconnected from the server is a pain. If each of the drones is attacking a different turret each 35km apart then it becomes tempting to just leave them.

The panel should also be able to show drone stats at that time (modified by the players skills/mods on ship) and this would mean CCP wouldn't need to do it in the "show info".

This covers the "basic" side of the panel. There is a button that will open up the advanced side that gives additional options.

The advanced panel should have the following (again for drone/group/all):

A checkbox for "Never attack groupmate.". If unchecked it will allow traitors to be attacked with the above functions while still part of the group.

A checkbox "Weapon Systems Active". If unchecked will deactivate the weapon systems on the drone. Would be very usefull for threats/rp or in ransom situations. This way the drones can continue to orbit the target while negotiations happen.

Sliders that allow the player to change the following on the fly:

Flight speed. (Great to get your humping drones to get a little more distance between them)
Orbit speed. (Can be increased up to flight speed and so can make drones move faster to their target if the AI is faulty again and decreased if the drones have problems hitting)
Orbit range.

Implementing this would give drone lovers more tactical variety to draw on and increase the fun factor with drones immensly. The old panel in the overwiew should be kept so people that don't want to to bother with the new one don''t have to. People that use the advanced panel can just minimize it the old one.

Miphor
Caldari
Posted - 2006.01.27 12:14:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Taketa De

Then there should be a 'abondon drone' button which will server control of the drone and allow the player to launch new ones. Especially in emergency situations or situations where drones refuse to return or are too far away to retrun quickly this could be a lifesaver.



This I would love to see.

The rest seems overly complex.

Something simpler would no doubt be easier to implement and less prone to error.
eg 'engage and then idle' (aka current in gang behaviour) and a second option 'engange and then engage' (aka current behaviour when not in a gang) would be enough for me.

I would love the 'abandon' button so that when my heavies are 50km away and I have frigs orbiting + scrambling me, I have a way to cut off the heavies and launch lights without being killed while waiting for drones to fly 50km at orbit speed.


Pang Grohl
Posted - 2006.01.27 19:36:00 - [3]
 

'Abandoned' drones can be recovered by scooping them to your drone bay...

I've heard rumor that drones can be transfered in to a gang member's control by them scooping the drone to thier bay. I will be testing this tonight.

Drones can be commanded to orbit/ approach with out attacking from the overview while the drone is selected or by right clicking them in the drone section.

I think the rest of the drone commands are needed though.
From my experience drones will currently attack the closest valid target in range once your target queue is empty. This includes installations.

Pang

CursedFox
Posted - 2006.01.29 23:25:00 - [4]
 

This would make life ALOT easier in terms of keeping my drones doing what I want them too. As it is, just having 1 drone running around and keeping it on task can be a pain in a big fight Sad

Adonis 4174
Posted - 2006.01.29 23:30:00 - [5]
 

I would like to see an "Attack only what I tell you to" option to avoid aggroing other groups of enemies.

Taketa De
Gallente
Seneca Federation
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.02.17 11:31:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Pang Grohl
'Abandoned' drones can be recovered by scooping them to your drone bay...


Yeah they can, but if you are flying in a dominix that moves at 300m/s and they are 60km away... well if all the opponents are dead it's afk time. And yes I've been there and done that and sometimes it's just not worth it to get a bunch of T1 drones in such a situation.

Taketa De
Gallente
Seneca Federation
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.02.17 11:39:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Miphor
Originally by: Taketa De

Then there should be a 'abondon drone' button which will server control of the drone and allow the player to launch new ones. Especially in emergency situations or situations where drones refuse to return or are too far away to retrun quickly this could be a lifesaver.



This I would love to see.

The rest seems overly complex.

Something simpler would no doubt be easier to implement and less prone to error.
eg 'engage and then idle' (aka current in gang behaviour) and a second option 'engange and then engage' (aka current behaviour when not in a gang) would be enough for me.



True it has some complexity, but then having detailed "pet controls" in any game takes some of the simple away...

Personally I think it sounds worse then it is tho, all you do is pick a doctrine from a drop down box (lots of choices tho) and have the drones react that way. That is the center and most imporant part of it. Not having one AI to rule them all, but a few situational ones = drones not as stupid as now.

The Advanced part of it is purely optional (a seperate fold out panel) and is there to give more fine grained control over some situations for those that wish it and allows the player able to balance out when drones act buggy (mating drones, slow drones, wrong orbiting distance drones).

The bug with drones orbiting too fast if one has drone navigation (now fixed according to the patch notes) could have been countered and temp-fixed by players themsleves if those were available.

Drizit
Amarr
Posted - 2006.02.17 13:13:00 - [8]
 

Drones are a pain at the best of times. I can see that creating more controls would cause more of the bugs we see now. It's bad enough that drones wander off or refuse to come home now without confusing the issue with more complex commands.

I like the idea of drones not attacking unless the other ship commits and act of aggression such as targetting. I've had one instance where my drones started the fight but I would have got away with it if they hadn't because the enemy ship wasn't interested in me until then.

Loimbard
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.02.17 13:34:00 - [9]
 

Drone commands are a must, too long I have been trying to get them to attack specific enemies. Something needs to be addressed as to the nature of special drones such as logistics etc. These need to be different from combat drones.

For instance: I am operating a Vexor with 4 light drones and a med armour rep. I have to create a separate control box to get the armour repper to go and help my gangmate who is getting spanked by something else.

Pheonix49
Posted - 2006.02.17 13:50:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Pheonix49 on 17/02/2006 13:51:54
All good suggestions, though will probably be a bit complex in combat if that all ends up on a drop down menu. Do like the idea of an advanced control panel that can be activated in a window, wouldnt be so bad now we only have 5 drones to worry about.

It would be realy good if when you are forced to warp away or loose connection that when you arrive back in proximity to your drones that you get the option to automaticaly "Reastablish Drone Control" via a popup window so you dont have to go and fetch them and scoop them to reuse them.

An "Orbit object" option would be good, this has many uses such as defending stargates, ships in a fleet and other items you dont want destroyed before your drones gat a chance to get to target area.

Please CCP can we have a nice new drone control system to go with the nice new drones Very Happy


FireFoxx80
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.02.17 18:22:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 18/02/2006 12:24:17
Edit: Taking post below into account.

Too complex, instead:

Target - Attack/Assist (depending on whether drone is combat or utility)
Target - Orbit
Target - Guard (use to protect other ships, useful for carriers)
Return - To ship and orbit
Return - To ship and drone bay

Basically, all I want to see is a guard function, the rest I can live without.

Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
Posted - 2006.02.18 11:08:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: FireFoxx80
Too complex, instead:

Target - Attack
Target - Orbit
Target - Guard (use to protect other ships, useful for carriers)
Return - To ship and orbit
Return - To ship and drone bay

Basically, all I want to see is a guard function, the rest I can live without.


And dont forget a...
Target - Repair...With the new skills that one is needed.




Eethrak
LiveTech
Cold Fusion Syndicate
Posted - 2006.02.25 12:16:00 - [13]
 

I'd like to see a checkbox similar to the overview settings system as to what drones will attack. I'm sick of being in a complex with a swarm of guys bearing down on me, my drones kill the one i tell them to then wander off to take out some structures as far away as they can. Thats just stupid.

Loktane
Posted - 2006.02.25 18:57:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Loktane on 25/02/2006 18:57:22
People, read the patch notes:
Quote:
Drones and Weapons

* Drone targetting systems have received a firmware update to improve their target selection processes. They will now pick targets which have been directly involved in aggression with their owner as a result from their owner (or one of his possessions) attacking the target, or the target attacking their owner or one of his possessions.
* Drone MWD usage has been corrected. They will not 'forget' they are equipped with a MWD if a new target is assigned.
* "Move to Drone Bay" option for drones in your cargo hold will work only when you are within range of a ship hangar array.
* Mining drones now stop mining and return correctly when so ordered.



Have fun

Taketa De
Gallente
Seneca Federation
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.03.05 00:31:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Loktane
Edited by: Loktane on 25/02/2006 18:57:22
People, read the patch notes:
Quote:
Drones and Weapons

* Drone targetting systems have received a firmware update to improve their target selection processes. They will now pick targets which have been directly involved in aggression with their owner as a result from their owner (or one of his possessions) attacking the target, or the target attacking their owner or one of his possessions.
* Drone MWD usage has been corrected. They will not 'forget' they are equipped with a MWD if a new target is assigned.
* "Move to Drone Bay" option for drones in your cargo hold will work only when you are within range of a ship hangar array.
* Mining drones now stop mining and return correctly when so ordered.



Have fun


While the first one is a nice step, it's still rather limited in what it does and I still get some of the same old errors sometimes like drones crawling back when I ask them to return to dronebay.

Personally I just don't think the 1 AI fits all situation as we have now is the best as the intelligence of that AI will be severly limited. That is why I'd like the option to choose between several behaviors that will each be easier to code for since they are specific and so will behave a lot more "intelligently" Very Happy

Troubadour
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.03.15 07:02:00 - [16]
 

/signed



Zarch AlDain
GK inc.
Posted - 2006.03.15 13:16:00 - [17]
 

Drones seem much better behaved since the last patch (except for the damn return to drone bay command which really needs fixing). I'm reasonably happy with them now.

Taketa De
Gallente
Seneca Federation
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.03.18 23:45:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Zarch AlDain
Drones seem much better behaved since the last patch (except for the damn return to drone bay command which really needs fixing). I'm reasonably happy with them now.



True, it's gotten quite a bit better since the last patch. However I don't just want them to behave better, I want more choices to be able to use them more strategically as well Very Happy

ZaKma
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.03.22 16:25:00 - [19]
 

omg totaly wtf bbq signed YARRRR!!

ITTigerClawIK
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
Posted - 2006.03.22 16:34:00 - [20]
 

how about we fix the issue were once drones have finished with attacking summit not to attack your own gang/corp mates...............it is rather anoying when your armours almost gone during combat 0_0

Elena Drebbin
Posted - 2006.03.22 17:02:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Elena Drebbin on 22/03/2006 17:03:40

Considering that I fly a Vexor cruiser, have 20,000 sp in turrets and 300,000 in drones... Please. I'd love to see all of this implemented, especially the different "drone modes" that will determine what targets they attack and in what order. While I can solo Human Cattle without much trouble, the drones really do need an overhaul.

The number one priority though is fixing the bugs and problems:
a) Broken return to bay command - this kills my drones regularly.
b) Broken gang functions - drones attack members
c) Autoscoop on disconnect - I only ever get disconnected in deadspace complexes. It's bad enough to use the key and then get kicked out, but having the drones stuck inside sucks! Even more so since my ship has room for only one flight of mediums!

I'd love to buy some real good mining drones - but I don't have the balls for it. I'm too scared of losing them to disconnects and refusal to return to bay during rat attacks.

I love drones. I love being a drone carrier. I hate that I'm always at the mercy of bugs and odd drone ai behaviour. It's better since the last patch, but it needs a lot of work still.

Adira

lasarith
Gallente
Posted - 2006.03.22 18:26:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Taketa De
That is why I'd like to see a sepereate drone control panel that gives us more fine grained command ability over our little helpers.

There would be a basic side which would allow us to issue commands to each drone/drone group/all drones. These would be in a drop down box and might be as follows:

Default: Act the way drones always have in the past.

Attack and Return: Attack the target I set for you then return and orbit.

Attack closest threat to player: Attack the closest hostile that is attacking the player.

Attack closest threat to self: Attack the closest hostile that is attacking the drone.

Attack closest hostile to player: Like threat, but any red target is valid.

Attack closest hostile to self: Like threat, but any red target is valid.

Attack my targets in order: Attack the targets the player has locked (always the right most on the list). Drones will return and orbit if no more targets are available.

Attack my targets, closest to drone: Attack the targets the player has locked, always the one closest to the drone. Drones will return and orbit if no more targets are avialable.

Attack my targets, closest to me: Attack the targets the player has locked, always the one closest to the player. Drones will return and orbit if no more targets are avialable.

Kill all buildings: Taget and kill any building in the area.

These commands would activat as soon as the player gives the 'attack' command and deactivate if 'return and orbit' or 'return to dronebay' are given.

One can also set a default level which activates as soon as drones launch.

Then there should be a 'abondon drone' button which will server control of the drone and allow the player to launch new ones. Especially in emergency situations or situations where drones refuse to return or are too far away to retrun quickly this could be a lifesaver.
------------------------------------------------------------
yup would like to see above ingame 100%


Xanther
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.05.03 14:32:00 - [23]
 

All of these may make drone control too complex, but more options are certainly needed. I think most important are some more AI options for default behavior (especially a way to hold their agression so they don't aggro what you don't want them to) and grouping so drone carrier ships can seperate combat drones, ew drones, repair drones, and so forth and give commands to those groups individually. An indicator on your locked targets showing your drones are on them would be nice as well.


Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2006.05.03 15:38:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 03/05/2006 15:47:34

Yes, we don't necessarily need more options.
First and foremost, we need fixes. Elena/Adira mentioned them.
Default behaviour would be a nice-to-have.
I'm not sure if we need some indicator. For turrets, especially mining lasers, we need it, sure. But drones are flexible and you can actually see them in space. If in doubt, give them a new order. They're fast.

As for the other points - drones don't aggro anything anymore. At least not by themselves. If they do (or seem to), you probably shot something previously, or some enemy shot at you, or you sent them too far away, so they got within the aggro-radius of some enemies, got shot at and wandered off to defend themselves. Therefore this doesn't need fixing imho.
Also grouping is already possible. Check the right-click menu on drones in drone bay in space Wink

Taketa De
Gallente
Seneca Federation
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.05.08 12:36:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Xanther
All of these may make drone control too complex, but more options are certainly needed. I think most important are some more AI options for default behavior (especially a way to hold their agression so they don't aggro what you don't want them to) and grouping so drone carrier ships can seperate combat drones, ew drones, repair drones, and so forth and give commands to those groups individually. An indicator on your locked targets showing your drones are on them would be nice as well.




As the poster above wrote, grouping is already possible.

Anyway, the point of the complexity above is that it is optional. People could continue to use drones as they do now, but for those that want more options and finer control the possibilities would be there.

And I don't want the complexity just for the heck of it, I want it to give more tactical options. In combat tactics are often limited in EVE (a lot of the fight is won/lost at the fitting screen and positioning in combat is mostly of only limited relevance since ships can shoot in any direction at any time) so anything that gives more options and can make fights more interresting and different is a big plus for me.

Taketa De
Gallente
Seneca Federation
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.05.08 12:39:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Yes, we don't necessarily need more options.
First and foremost, we need fixes. Elena/Adira mentioned them.
Default behaviour would be a nice-to-have.
I'm not sure if we need some indicator. For turrets, especially mining lasers, we need it, sure. But drones are flexible and you can actually see them in space. If in doubt, give them a new order. They're fast.
As for the other points - drones don't aggro anything anymore. At least not by themselves. If they do (or seem to), you probably shot something previously, or some enemy shot at you, or you sent them too far away, so they got within the aggro-radius of some enemies, got shot at and wandered off to defend themselves. Therefore this doesn't need fixing imho.
Also grouping is already possible. Check the right-click menu on drones in drone bay in space Wink


Well one of the points of these options is that they allow us to "fix" these problems on our own, untill the Devs take care of them. If I can set orbit distance and speed of a drone I can make it dock every time instead of waiting at 1.8km and crawling to my Domi.

The second point is that by having more then one drone AI, each can be more specialized and is so less likely to do something stupid then the One Ai fits all we have now.

Max Kentarii
Gallente
Nordic Endeavour
Posted - 2006.05.08 13:01:00 - [27]
 

Good suggestions.

I would also like to have hotkeys for telling drones to orbit, engage and return (and possibility for hotkeys for all the above commands suggested).

Taketa De
Gallente
Seneca Federation
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.05.09 00:15:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Max Kentarii
Good suggestions.

I would also like to have hotkeys for telling drones to orbit, engage and return (and possibility for hotkeys for all the above commands suggested).


Would love to have drone hotkeys. The problem is, how to assign drone hotkeys to different groups of drones...

Probably only way to do that would be to only have them affect the active outside drones and have them affect all of them, however that is kind of limited.

Lord Slater
Amarr
Kodan Armada
Posted - 2006.05.09 01:19:00 - [29]
 

Too complex.

voidvim
Minmatar
Genco
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.05.13 21:13:00 - [30]
 

/signed

it would be cool if any of these ideas would be put in game.


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