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Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.01.07 17:43:00 - [1]

Edited by: BaJaiah on 07/01/2006 18:04:44


I guess I'm not the only one experiencing lag in EVE at it's current state. SO I would like to make a suggestion based on a case study.

I have just completed a level 4 "massive attack" agent mission, and as usually i pickced up all the loot.

Now after completion I thought that the loot-system as I've taken more or less for granted could be seriously optimized.

After having gathered loot from all the encounters my haulers cargohold contained 161 items (unstacked) filling roughly 1.200 m3
Screenshot 1

First suggestion for optimization (?) - or at least a nice feature - would be to have a toggable option to autostack items. Both in cargoholds and hangars. That would result in my cargohold automatically holding 82 unique items
Screenshot 2

An other suggestion would be to seperate and drop named loot as all loot is dropped now - but make normal item loot drops become minerals instead. Much like the rogue drones this would lead to much fewer unique items for EVE to handle. Alternatively we might have ship debris that you could mine/salvage - if mining required the mineral payout should of course be increased as it would take far longer time... Anyway all in all it should end up much like now when I have recycled all normal items - in this case resulting in 26 unique items.
Screenshot 3

Finally - the suggestion i like most is simply to only drop named stuff and other special items, while increasing bounty. In this case the minerals i recieved could be sold for roughly 2.350.000 ISK. Now not having to spend the time salvaging all the loot and reproccessing it should result in lesser yield. So I'd say the combined bounty for all the ships in an "massive attack" agent mission should increase by about 1.500.000. Unfortunately I didn't get the exact numbers for my bounty rewards for this mission but I estimate about 5.000.000 - so increasing bounty by 30% would do. It's important that it's the bounty and not agent reward that gets the increased. Otherwise hunters would take a substantial ISK impact.

If implemented this would leave the mission runners/hunters to do the thing they like most (blow things up) and lessen the performance impact by loot drops to EVE considerably. Much fewer drops and much much less loot being transferred from drop-cans to cargo and cargo to hangars/station containers etc. etc. Now we are down to 19 unique items - that is roughly a 85% reduction of loot-handling...
Screenshot 4

I say that the figures speak for themselves and I cannot think any sane person would disagree with me Very Happy

Talio ZomB
Posted - 2006.01.07 21:31:00 - [2]

Edited by: Talio ZomB on 07/01/2006 21:33:00
You wasted your time looting in the first place,!t mil for how long. In the time it takes you to do that mission you might have been lucky enough to get a blockade or guristas spies and made more isk and more lp. With regards to solving lag, well eve needs to take a page out of WoWs book and instance complexes or major missions. Thier pride in this whole single shard thing is at the expense of the playerbase.

Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.01.08 10:30:00 - [3]

Well - I totally disagree.

1) Looting this took me about half the time i spent on the mission. Granted i wasn't lucky on the lootdrops. A Badger M2 with 3 x named Nanofiber Internal stuctures and a T2 10MN afterburner works wonders. But I'd be surprised if the named loot isn't worth around half a mill. So actually looting and shooting equals pretty much up in this case.

2) Your kinda mission-runnig ain't exactly helping performance. How many cans do you leave hanging during a 2 hour (lifetime of drops) mission-streak ? Wink In my case I guess that would be about 200-300 and theres about 40 in local mission-running...

3) Sharding will only seperate the playerbase even more than "empire vs 0.0" allready does. Fewer pilots in space, less trade, fighting, etc. etc. I personally really hope that CCP's server-farm upgrade will do the trick.

btw - i just realized that this thread probably belongs under features and suggestions - so much for keeping track of which forum I'm in Confused

Fester Addams
Posted - 2006.01.08 18:44:00 - [4]

I would not like for that to happen.

Firstly much of the standard loot dropped I salvage and drop into the corp hangar to assist younger corp members, while I today use mainly the best meta stuff or T2 items several of my corp mates that have joined the game recently are greately helped by the loot I dump into the corp hangar for their use.

Secondly how would you deal with different reprocessing skills and station standing?

As I do not have exeptional refining skill I usually let a friend reprocess the loot I do crunch and thus get more from it than I would if I did it myself, I also usually make sure I reprocess larger numbers of items as it is more efficient.

Thirdly, I usually dont sell the minerals I get out of reprocessing loot, Im not a producder but our corp is well furnished in a wide range of BPO's and have players that have maxed manufacturing skills, rather than buying ships and similar I frequently let them build what I need, after all that way I get my stuff at production cost, not production+profit.

Forth how would you price the minerals that get produced?
The mineral market is very vivid, the prices for trit as an example can easilly differ over 200% from region to region and while 2.35mil isk may be a small amount of isk for you and me the difference between a standard mineral price and what you could get if you play the market could amount to alot of difference for a less well off player.

In all I dont think you have fully thought through the effects your sugestion would have on the game, better to keep it like it is and allow people to choose for themselves how things are going to be used even if that does make you spend some time looting...

...because that is the main issue is it not?
This would allow you to spend far less time picking upp cans.
The question is why you did not sugest loot would automaticly get placed into your home stations items hangar, that way we could all go far into 0.0 and would not have to solve the logistics problem of having a limited cargo hold for loot :)

Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.01.10 12:19:00 - [5]

Edited by: BaJaiah on 10/01/2006 12:19:22
@Fester Addams

1) What would keep you from giving your members a bit of your surplus ISK to go buy their equipment ?

2) Dunno about you but i tend to reprocess named items under a certain value, being 50-200K depending on how many market orders i have left, or the useability of the items for the corp, in which case they go to corp hangar. But you are right, reproccessing skill would not have an impact on loot yield, though it could if it got renamed to salvaging and had a bonus to the bounty as well. But i don't really see the reason why it should. Time is money - time saved on looting will result in more bounties...

3) Good point - and yes mineral reserves would drop somewhat if we assume the "standard loot" isn't dropped as minerals. I'm not sure how much this would impact the finance system of EVE. But if it all goes to hell because og general mineral shortage, CCP could gradually increase mining yield.

4) I wouldn't dynamically value the minerals. I'd just increase the current bounty by a fixed percentage once and for all.

And no - my main issue is not that i don't like looting. If I didn't I wouldn't do it. My major concern is the server-strain made by all those loot-cans being generated and popped. Those hunters/mission runners not looting. The strain on servers handling a vast amount of T1 items to be stacked, transferred from cargo to hangars, sold or reproccesed.

Also - as you proved so elequently - the T1 market is crippled by generous guys like you and me Very Happy

Sinari Galdrin
Posted - 2006.01.10 12:49:00 - [6]

What about having a module to 'autorecycle' items (It'd have to be a module to allow it to be disabled at will)

You could have different types of modules to autorecycle different things,
- Basic Recycler I - autorecycles items up to 20k 'core mineral value', with 70% efficiency
- Recycler I - autorecycles items up to 100k 'core mineral value', with 70% efficiency
- Super Recycler I - autorecycles items up to 250k 'core mineral value', with 70% efficiency
refining skill would increase efficiency, but keep it less than in-station refining.

Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.01.10 15:10:00 - [7]

@Sinari Galdrin

Hmm - interresting suggestion.

But personally I would hate to "nerf" my Raven in lvl4 missions. I think the result to some extent would be that pilots loot the old-fashioned way, thus neglecting some of the performance boost. Your solution would not be as effective performance wise as the servers would still have to generate the actual looted items aeventhough they get recycled immediately (which btw also will put some strain on the servers). Besides the primary reason for not looting is the time it takes to go from can to can - so you would still have a vast amount of untouched loot-drops around.

Please keep in mind that I am looking at the looting-system from a performance perspective.

Finally - as pointed out above - theres no such thing as core mineral worth. That is unless you want to take the avarage price across the entire EVE universe each time you recycle, which is probably not a good idea Shocked Very Happy


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